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8:00 PM
when you call into a coroutine, you stop the caller flow and the coroutine starts working
 
Never used coroutines in any language. Never found any use for them.
 
user784668
@sehe Wait, no, that's not boost.coroutine, that's boost.context.
 
@ThePhD Read my story above - coroutines are more like tasks humans do simultaneously, because we can't clone ourselves into many threads.
 
@Fanael Yeah, but doesn't boost.coroutine build on boost.context?
 
coroutines are like MS DOS :v
 
user784668
8:01 PM
@bamboon Dunno.
 
user3010322
So the WinRT stuff can be described as a Coroutine Context rather than a Thread Pool context.
 
user3010322
Now it all makes sense.
 
@Fanael Think so, but let me check.
 
user784668
@BartoszKP More like Windows 1.x-3.x, where multitasking was cooperative.
 
Ell
@bamboon iirc
I love coroutines
they're just magic
 
user3010322
8:02 PM
If what you say about Coroutines are true,
 
user3010322
they're the reason for my deadlocks earlier. :l
 
@Fanael but windows 1.x-3.x is not that awesome as ms dos :<
 
@ThePhD they stole the idea from the SQL server team
 
user784668
@BartoszKP your name is Bartek so you're wrong by default
 
user3010322
8:03 PM
WinRT is using coroutines so they don't have to think about what will happen when you try to update the UI after an await call.
 
@sehe ;p
feck it i'll just stay here
 
user3010322
That's why MyTextBlock.Text = ShitThatJustGotAsynced works.
 
user3010322
It's also want ShitThatsSupposedToBeAsync.Wait() causes a deadlock, because they're both trying to block the context waiting for each other.
 
@Fanael you have a flower in your avatar so you're wrong by default, albeit you smell nice
 
user3010322
Well, fuck. Now it all makes sense.
 
user784668
8:04 PM
@BartoszKP I know, right?
 
@ThePhD coroutines need their own set of synchronization primitives
 
user784668
@BartoszKP also blame @BartekBanachewicz
 
watching the boostcon talk on it now
 
@Fanael how is that not relevant?
 
@Fanael yeah, <strike>but he's not Bartosz IIRC</strike> he is :E
 
8:05 PM
@BartoszKP sorry to break that to you
 
Ell
@ThePhD I don't think you can get deadlocks with coroutines
 
user784668
@sehe Dunno
 
Fuck coroutines, thread-local pseudo-globals, deadbeat posters who think SO is for debugging tens of thousands of lines of shit code, MS-DOS and WinRT. I'm going for a beer.
 
Ell
I might be very wrong
 
@BartekBanachewicz just checked, sorry no offence intended :u
 
8:05 PM
none taken
 
@MartinJames Woot
 
Ell
But only one execution context is active at the same time
 
@MartinJames best idea I've heard all day
 
Ell
No simultaneous execution occurs
 
user3010322
@Ell Coroutines give control back when they're finished to the original thread that spawned them. If you tell the original thread to wait for the coroutine to finish, but the coroutine doesn't finish until it gives control back to the waiting original thread.... Deadlock.
 
8:06 PM
@Ell Depends on the drugs
 
user3010322
(This is what WinRT does.)
 
user3010322
(And why I hate it.)
 
Ell
@ThePhD when a coroutine finished it should automatically return
 
@ThePhD what? this doesn't seem to make sense. (the last part)
 
@ThePhD a well designed coroutine library should return to caller on ANY block, and won't block the thread unless no coroutine is ready to run
 
user3010322
8:07 PM
(And why all my calls are .ConfigureAwait( synchronizeOnContext = FALSEBITCHESFALSE ); )
 
I think you're doing it wrong...
 
Ell
Me too.
 
user3010322
I think I'm doing it right.
 
user3010322
Exactly right.
 
user3010322
Albeit these WinRT things might not be coroutines.
 
user3010322
8:08 PM
But they sure are behaving like them.
 
async and await?
they are
but they are not guaranteed to run on the same thread
 
user3010322
Right. That's fine. The problem is how WinRT synchronizes the data back to the original thread.
 
user3010322
And what happens when you launch an async/await call, and then .Wait() on the returned Task.
 
@ThePhD ideally you shouldn't be .Wait() on anything
that's the whole point of WinRT
 
user3010322
So I've learned.
 
user3010322
8:10 PM
async all the methods.
 
yep
 
and be prepared that your data never arrives, as WinRT can decide to kill your background thread anytime
 
user3010322
Either that, or .ConfigureAwait(false)
 
user3010322
@BartoszKP How nice of it.
 
user3010322
However, sometimes I need to block.
 
user3010322
8:11 PM
Like, say, for example, when I make a TicketingService that requires an IdentityService that's all logged in.
 
user3010322
The AuthenticationCredential property can't be async: I need it now.
 
doesn't it have an event to handle?
 
any movie recommendations?
 
@ThePhD Dispatcher
Yeah, async/await is infamous for deadlocks, it's a really unfortunate design choice if you ask me to allow it. They could have totally worked around that problem.
 
Hmm, how can I access revisions and possibly revert some for given SO question?
 
8:13 PM
@ThePhD no you think you do, in reality you just need to await it before you can start the others
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what genre? which decade?
 
user3010322
@BartoszKP TicketingService and friends hook up the HttpClient in its constructor, so...
 
user3010322
I'm not aware of async constructors.
 
user3010322
So I guess I just need an async factory method instead.
 
user3010322
Aww shit all my regular code is gonna be polluted then.
 
8:14 PM
@ThePhD use the dispatcher, you can schedule stuff to run on the UI thread and use async/await not caring what thread it returns to.
 
user3010322
if ( service != null ) { craaaaaaaaaaap } else { weeee }
 
The reason you don't have async constructors is that doing I/O in a constructor is a horrible idea.
3
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Have you seen Nochnoy Dozor and Dnevnoy Dozor for example?
 
@VáclavZeman: Please, every time you testcase for that girl, she doesn't learn
 
Found it. Revert wars!
 
8:15 PM
Anyone wanna guess what language does I/O in a constructor... wait I got something better. A language that does I/O in equality comparison?
(In a standard library class)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum :G PHP?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I silently assume it is a man and not a girl. :D Much like you.
 
Ell
@BenjaminGruenbaum java
ip address?
 
@BartoszKP Java, if you compare two URLs it'll actually make net requests.
 
Ell
host lookup
my guess :p
 
8:16 PM
@Ell bingo, URLs
 
Ell
@BenjaminGruenbaum heh, I've heard this before
 
Try putting URLs in a hashmap, fun will ensue
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum WTF....
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum lol :0
 
Ell
that's kinda crazy
 
8:16 PM
that's kinda wtf
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I can see the CVE now
 
@Mgetz yup, equals will act differently if you're online or offline.
 
user3010322
.ToString() all the things.
 
probably .ToString will do this also then :e
 
It's also blocking, pretty fun.
 
8:17 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'll be honest If I was the one that coded that I would have to stop being an engineer out of shame
 
@Mgetz imagine putting a URL into a sorted tree with 1024 elements. That makes like 10 sequential blocking web requests :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum "CVE-##-####: Denial of service against foo when updating map"
 
instance ToJSON MapField where
    toJSON = toJSON . show

 No instance for (aeson-0.6.2.1:Data.Aeson.Types.Class.ToJSON
                    MapField)
   arising from a use of `json'
wut.
how fix.
 
Ell
I like this imgur.com/hyU8ohq
 
there are clever denial of service attacks: stalling the pipeline on a netburst processor that's hyperthreaded
 
8:23 PM
no really what the fuck
 
@BartoszKP 2000s or 2010s, preferably a sci-fi twist
 
@Ell it doesn't say which part of the breat cancer deaths have been prevented by medical services made possible with precisely those "large" donations?
 
for gods sake
i have this instance
 
it's not for my sake mate
 
it's right there
how can it think it's not
I see it.
it's in the file
 
Ell
8:25 PM
@sehe oh that's a good point
how did I miss that
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit checkout Day Watch and Night Watch I've mentioned. They're more something like fantasy not sci-fi, but they're really good
 
@Ell It's basically the inverse of "My zombie-deterrent perfume must be working very well, because there are no zombies around now"
 
@BartoszKP looks scary
 
Want to fit image vertically in Latex? Piece of cake: \includegraphics[height=\dimexpr \textheight - 4\baselineskip\relax]{pictures/ac.png} :|||
 
AFAIK the new survival rates for breast cancer are mostly due to the new drugs
 
8:28 PM
@BartekBanachewicz <being-a-douche> it's haskell, it has to work since it's type safe </being-a-douche>
 
grawrfjstrjajtl;sjka;ahjr4ofhasid;fhv
the fucking. instance. is there.
 
It's because your code is imperative :D
 
it's not.
it's fucking Sinatra basically
get stuff -> return response
 
You should take your types more seriously.
Because you're working in a typed language, you know exactly what your problem is.
 
you know what's best?
when I load it into ghci encode works perfectly
 
8:31 PM
meanwhile, at home, I'm having a serious case of teh feels as I'm digitizing MC tapes with recordings of a Christmas concert by our children's choir recorded back in '88. There's really something about children's voices.
I hardly recognize my own voice from the solos. (Nice geek project: do spectral analysis to find a match with my current voice o.O)
 
@Puppy the fact we can detect it better/earlier is also a good factor.
 
@thecoshman Outcomes from the mass screening programs are really quite mixed.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't understand, I thought statically typed languages with a strong type systems have meaningful error messages.
 
sadly, despite it being in the name of science, people poo poo the idea withholding medical treatments just to see what happens.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum this error message is just... wrong
 
8:32 PM
Dang. Two more clippings. I'll need to see how bad they are. Not really interested in redoing this entire tape side.
 
@BartekBanachewicz no no, you're not embracing Haskell, whenever something doesn't work in Haskell it's your fault.
4
 
@Puppy the only thing we can compare based on drugs is their usage on cancers that are as developed as when we first started using drugs. You can't compare drugs working on very early cancers with cancers that were allowed to get very developed with no detection and no drugs.
 
why does it work in ghci but not in ghc
 
24 slides for 17 minutes
 
@BartekBanachewicz da flagz?
 
8:34 PM
bit too much :\
 
Ell
ahh facebook down for me
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum no flags either way
everything in code
 
@thecoshman Well, the outcomes from the mass screening programs actually suggest that the early detection from them doesn't increase survival rates. I don't know about any other detection improvements for breast cancer, although there undoubtedly are some.
 
@Ell Congratulations. May you be blessed with more days like these
 
Is there anything for which Dead is not an expert who has an unparalleled knowledge?
 
8:34 PM
@Ell wfm
 
wait for me?
 
@thecoshman No.
 
@Puppy you can't make that comparison. Drugs have been developing along with earlier screening.
 
but it's such a great presentation! I don't know what to leave out :#
 
also, I present, Jason Webly
 
8:36 PM
oh wait it now errors in ghci too
 
user3010322
There's something so.... strange.
 
@thecoshman I was explicitly referring to the mass screening programs only.
 
user3010322
Writing wrapper classes that abstract away .NET.
 
user image
2
 
@BartekBanachewicz in JavaScript you would have been done already :D
 
8:37 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum so what?
 
and it's been shown statistically that those whose cancer is detected by mass screening programs don't have a substantially improved survival rate, whereas the false positives do incur many unnecessary treatments and medical side effects.
other detection improvements -> I have no idea.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, I'm just being a dick and rubbing it in, don't act all surprised - this is half of the messages in this room anyway.
:D
 
maybe towards you
I feel loved here.
 
Wikipedia states that they only learned how to target tamoxifen to the right kinds of breast cancer in the 80's and the clinical studies proving its effectiveness only concluded in the 90s.
 
There's an athmosphere of friendship.
 
8:38 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum sharp
 
Clearly I was wrong, the lounge is an embracing womb of kindness :D
 
and AFAIK, the mass screenings is the main thing they're doing now compared to in 2002.
 
user3010322
> embracing womb
 
user3010322
In order to make it there, however,
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Just... it's a womb that knows how to strangle the unborn
 
user3010322
8:39 PM
you must fight through the clamping, crushing pressure of the naturally acidic vaginal canal.
 
Puppy, movie expert, tell me what to watch
 
@Griwes it looks like a shark with a fortissimo poo underneath
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit your mouth
9
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Genre?
 
:D
 
Ell
8:40 PM
@sehe sharp
There is a girl I know who just uploaded a photo to facebook and she legit looks like a blow up doll
 
lol, a new language: Sehe#
 
@Ell this probably indicates that she uploaded a photo of a blow up doll there
 
@Ell pics or didn't happen
 
As a matter of fact I'm not seeing so sharp.
Still need to visit the optometrist or whatsitcalled
 
Ell
Optician?
 
8:43 PM
I call em eye people
 
Ell
@BartoszKP No can do :p
 
@CatPlusPlus scam artists
 
> Because the park is the most natural place in the world you'd expect to find a sunglasses-wearing trombonist. In a fisherman's beanie hat.
 
> So the actual type of list(...) is completely unspecified; this will also be the case for most objects defined by Hana. It does not mean that you can't name that type, but simply that you can't do anything useful with it:

using wow_that_is_so_useless = decltype(xs);
Anyone here ever looked at Boost.Hana? /cc @LucDanton @R.MartinhoFernandes
(I know about metamonad by Sinkovicz, but this was new to me)
It also uses variable templates!
  auto ts = list(type<int*>, type<void>, type<char const>);
 
o_0 for some reason my g-calender is obsessed with me editing an event
 
8:48 PM
@sehe It's been mentioned.
 
Oooh. I must pay more attentions
Aug 16 at 10:11, by TemplateRex
@R.MartinhoFernandes http://ldionne.github.io/hana/
Ah, during my holiday. I can partly redeem myself here
 
26 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
@BartoszKP 2000s or 2010s, preferably a sci-fi twist
I don't think using the word "answer" necessarily implies that I'm actually answering my own question. The reason I put that section is is because I've done some of the homework already and I wanted to save people time looking up relevant languages and sections. My "answer" is analysis that, if true, reduces my question to a different question. At any rate, I'll make an answer. — Louis Brandy 2 mins ago
lolwut
"I don't think answer means answer" fuck off
 
: D
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Watch Into Darkness.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I said twist, not vapid spiral descent
 
Xeo
8:55 PM
Well well well... that was unexpected. We've been challenged to the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge.
 
beeeeeeeeeeeeehhh
beeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh
 
pfff
 
Urf. And there's me manhandling a concert grand age ~'89. It's decent, but... not something I'd be overly impressed with :S
 
8:57 PM
Still. MC cassettes hold out slightly better than I expected
@Xeo I've been ignoring my challenge for about a week now
 
sehe's gone to the zoo
 
Xeo
@sehe Well, our whole company has been challenged
 
oooh that's a good point; since it's hit my social group now and I won't see any of them until Friday, hopefully I'm "out of mind" until they're out of 24 hour periods
 
Likewise here. It's easier to ignore that way
 
@Xeo just... why.......
it's so pointless now.
"raise awareness of ALS" EVEN THE DEAF-BLIND NOW KNOW ABOUT ALS STFU FFS #cunts
 
8:58 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Actually that's the plan for tomorrow night
 
:o
 
Ell
I cut my hand
 
protip: do not cut hand
 
Ell
on a high velocity free pouring spout
 

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