« first day (1377 days earlier)      last day (3573 days later) » 

6:00 PM
all the effort
 
I don't know. libc++ is always funny
 
sbi
@Puppy Yeah. I suspect C APIs will still look like this in 2037.
 
They'll probably look worse, somehow.
 
@sbi I was seriously considering making that statement myself.
 
@Xeo imagemagick (convert t.svg -density 150 t.png; also ways to specify geo)
 
sbi
6:01 PM
@Puppy Did you also consider making it using 2037? (And if so, then for the same reason I did?)
 
I don't know what the significance of 2037 is. I was just gonna be like, "2010s, or 2020s, or 2030s, or..."
 
sbi
@Puppy 32bit time stamps...
 
oh, I think the world abandoned those long before I started programming, so I have zero familiarity with them.
 
Ell
does libc++ implement the standard library?
 
That's 2038
 
6:02 PM
@Ell C++'s, not C's.
 
Ell
Righty-o
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Then 2037 seems like a good pick to make when looking for a late date C might be used in, don't you think?
I suspect C and C++ are going to be a lot less popular after all programs start to display dates from the 70s in 2038.
 
They won't.
 
Not really, no
 
No one uses 32 bit timestamps anymore.
 
6:04 PM
damn
in 2038 I'm gonna be an old geezer.
 
@Puppy not really?
@R.MartinhoFernandes they do
 
TIL you can put optional parentheses around a constructor name.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes The project we will release next month will use them (because the platform dos), and it comes with a 20 year warranty. That's almost a close shave.
 
@chris You can optionally parenthesise a lot of random stuff.
 
6:05 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit old windows crapware will. Apple stuff will probably bork as they did twice before.
 
Ell
I wonder if a petrol station will sell disposable razors
 
@rubenvb and the vast majority of society's infrastructure
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit struct Foo {(Foo)() = default;};
 
@Ell Not likely, due to the murder potential.
 
programming isn't just about "apps" y'know
 
6:05 PM
Oh come on. 32-bit timestamps went away with what? VS2005?
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, even in general, this is a hilarious statement to make. C runs in all kinds of embedded devices, and I bet 80% of those use 32bit time stamps.
 
@rubenvb so VS is the be-all-and-end-all of programming now
you kids with your apps and game engines. you're like 25% of the industry and don't even know it.
 
lol
 
Ell
my friend told me that most of embedded is done in java
 
sbi
@rubenvb On Windows.
 
6:06 PM
I guess I didn't know it was allowed around function names in general when you declare them.
 
@sbi And glibc did away with them since what? so version 6?
 
@Ell Bullshit.
 
@chris well there you go ^_^
 
sbi
> C runs in all kinds of embedded devices, and I bet 80% of those use 32bit time stamps.
 
Ell
6:07 PM
@Puppy That's what I said :P
 
You're complaining about the generality of my statement after "a lot less popular when all programs"?
 
@sbi Embedded. Didn't you work in that field? :-p
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Honestly, we just want to complain about you.
 
Also:
23
Q: Year 2038 problem

8128What is the likelihood of the Year 2038 issue being very problematic?

 
> because the platform dos
So let me get this straight. The guy who still deploys applications for dos [sic] predicts the demise of C/C++ when 32 bit epoch seconds run out? :)
 
sbi
6:09 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Those machines employing 32bit time stamps rule cars, run all your telco, control satellites, power plants... It's only 20 years and from what I have seen in 2000 (which was probably a tiny problem compared to 2038), nobody will start looking at those little machines until 2035. I expect the worst.
 
2
A: Year 2038 problem

Joel SpolskyNot such a big deal. During the first Y2K blitz, in which software and hardware vendors were required to certify their products as "Y2K compliant" in order to be sold (I remember network cables on PC Connection being certified Y2K compliant) a lot of companies did detailed audits of everything, ...

wtf
 
sbi
@sehe No, that guy simply made a typo.
 
at least 64bit won't run out for a super duper long time.
 
GLibc, 2014.
 
6:10 PM
@sbi :D
 
@Puppy by then we'll all be running on stardates anyway. Or not running at all :-p
 
Embedded crap can just move the epoch and convert the timestamps
 
Fwiw the Linux kernel already barfed at leap seconds some time ago.
 
@rubenvb More likely, we'll just summon an AI to solve the problem for us.
 
And civilised world has no problem because we have 64-bit things now
 
6:11 PM
lol. Anyone seen Transcendence?
 
@sbi On the contrary. Phones are already pushing mobile/embedded CPUs of all varieties into 64 bit. In fact, all those "little machines" will have moved to 64 world out of sheer lack of economic alternatives (manufacturers will just say "tough shit, we can't afford to keep manufacturing the old shit for your little machines").
This is already happening, ~24 early
 
sbi
@rubenvb This asks and looks for Linux/Unix. (The answer predicting problems is about embedded, though. :))
@sehe I am not talking about phones.
 
@sbi oh come on. Everything embedded runs on Linux :-p
Or are you talking embedded-we-don't-even-have-a-decent-kernel-embedded?
 
sbi
@rubenvb 32bit Linux.
 
6:13 PM
I will laugh hard at any problems Y2038 causes
Because this is just so software industry
 
@sbi me neither, if you look closely. very closely
 
Let's hope no planes get shot out of the sky for Y2038.
 
@rubenvb not yet
 
@CatPlusPlus It's so human beings. They don't want to spend money on fixing a problem that hasn't arisen yet.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I will watch my children having to deal with it. :)
 
6:14 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit don't bother, it's not that good anyway ;-). Good actors, nice special effects, but lame ass recycled story.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Well, that's my opinion, feel free to take it with a grain of salt.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes TBF wasn't that more closely related to inappropriate use of non-monotonic clocks for essential synchronization business?
 
@Puppy it's cheaper to preempt problems than to fix them whilst the world is already burning all around you. do you want all the telecom networks to fail instantaneously?
 
sbi
@sehe I am pretty sure the average car employs a good deal of 16bit embedded devices.
 
6:14 PM
I need another SSD
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No. But as we all already know, I am the pinnacle of perfection.
 
Ran out of space hmmmmmmmmmmmm?
:v
 
@sbi Oh sure. And all of them need to deal with reporting dates :)
 
@sehe we did that once upon a time -.- made for some interesting bugs in sync logs
 
@sbi my uncle thought car processors were the fastest thing ... ever.
 
6:15 PM
I am also pretty sure the impact of the date in those cars is about nil.
 
@CatPlusPlus fucking QT weighing 2.8GB shitty abomination
 
I looked it up, 500MHz SoCs
 
@sbi how old do you expect an average car to get?
 
@CatPlusPlus anyway 256GB for 450PLN
 
sbi
@sehe No, they don't. But this goes to show that the embedded world is a bit behind.
 
6:15 PM
People having problem with timestamps and 2.8GB being a lot of space
 
@BartekBanachewicz yay Qt documentation, examples, tools, debug symbols, etc...
 
@sbi Nobody argues that
 
It's like '90s all over again!
 
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus it's just people apparently think we have unlimited disk space
 
6:16 PM
@rubenvb Honestly, the core count and OOO is more important than the raw GHz these days.
@BartekBanachewicz Which we effectively do.
 
@BartekBanachewicz :lol:
 
anyway SSDs are getting cheap enough fast enough vOv
HDDs are already reaching top capacity
 
@Puppy the car CPUs were a general slow, but specialized thing. But not anywhere as fast as, IMHO, a regular notebook CPU would be performing the same exact tasks.
 
besides
 
you can't really squeeze more than 6TB on one 3.5" drive
 
6:17 PM
3GB for QT is nothing, I've got 12GB of Clang and LLVM.
 
it's getting impractical
 
I mean, come on... Oh no, it's raining, turn on the friggin' windshield wipers.
 
SSD has capacities of 90's HDDs
 
How many clock cycles can that take?
 
Xeo
@milleniumbug HDDs had a capacity of 1TB in the 90's?
 
@rubenvb That's not really true. Car processors do a lot of physics stuff to control the engine properly. And the more modern ones have quite a lot of phone/tablet stuff like UI (sometimes touch), play music, make calls, etc.
 
SATA can handle more than one drive :v
 
@Xeo For £500, probably. In the late 90s.
 
@Puppy true, but still, that can be handled by a coprocessor (an engine "GPU" if you will)
 
-1
Q: php foreach/for acting weirdly

user3263155Someone can solve this mystery? i have two code samples. I think that the second example does same thing as first example but apparently it doesnt. this works: print_r($this->facebook->my_retrieve_timeline()['data'][0]->message); print_r($this->facebook->my_retrieve_timeline()['data'][1]->mes...

 
Xeo
6:18 PM
@CatPlusPlus My mobo has 6 SATA connectors
 
And I don't think the calculations require a GeForce Kepler.
 
@rubenvb meh it's dying anyway
 
Xeo
@Puppy Hm, well that would fit with the 1TB SSD prices, I guess
 
@rubenvb Engine GPU wouldn't really be the right choice (also, adding more than one processor makes programming the thing fucking hard).
 
for backups tapes make more sense.
for all other cases SSDs are winning now
 
6:19 PM
It's called an ECU.
 
@Puppy why? It handles what it handles, and writes a log of sorts to some shared memory readable by the main interface system. Done.
 
Yeah except for the case of having enough disk space to fit 3GB library on it
 
@BartekBanachewicz They're still not economical for large data caches.
 
sbi
@sehe The company I gave two seminars for in June makes embedded machines. They told me that, from the first steps of creating a new machine until companies start selling equipment which employs them, there will usually pass more than half a decade, sometimes more than a whole decade. And then customers start to buy that equipment to replace their 20 year old previous stuff with.
Now imagine it being 2030, and those customers starting to read about the 2k38 problem in their newspapers.
 
800PLN (200€) for 512GB
 
6:19 PM
@Xeo 1TB SSD prices are too damn high today.
 
@CatPlusPlus I have much more than that on it.
 
@rubenvb Because they're dogshit slow at serial physics. There's a reason why modern games don't tend to run physics on the GPU.
 
Also: all the analog to digital conversions of all the sensors are going to be a lot slower than the processor handling the data.
 
Puppy is also dogshit slow at noticing quotes.
 
look the HDD is shitty you can't fit a 10GB movie on it.
 
Ell
6:20 PM
@rubenvb meh analog to digital is pretty fast
 
Also, ok, it's more like early 00's instead of 90's, but you get the point - 60GB, 120GB is just what's expected.
 
what a fucked up argument this is
 
yeah, your HDD is looking a bit like it needs an upgrade.
 
> BAJTEK_HDD
 
@milleniumbug my 12.5" laptop is going to have 256 with one slot left
 
6:21 PM
assuming the first drive is an SSD though, you don't need more SSD space.
 
@Puppy s/upgrade/getting thrown in the trash bin/
 
you named your harddrive after ... yourself?
 
@Ell depends on what you call fast. In various physics experiments, that is the limiting factor. In any case it won't be nanoseconds.
 
@sbi So. What do you predict? I predict a pragmatic approach by the industry (there's no real, inherent problem measuring time) and a lot of money-making drumming by fear-mongerers hoping to profit. Both will succeed.
 
@Puppy I do need more SSD space
 
6:22 PM
Cue another superfast technology coming up with disks that go up to 1GB and everyone starts buying them over SSDs
 
@BartekBanachewicz WTF do you have on the SSD?
 
I certainly don't want any more HDDs in my machines
@Puppy everything that matters
 
I might buy an SSD to use as an intermediate cache
 
probably too much
 
@Puppy what
 
6:22 PM
I have a 60GB SSD, because that's the storage I expected for OS to require. Fuck you Visual Studio for storing 20 GB in C:
6
 
never too much on an SSD.
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit in the same way I name my pants after myself ;)
 
HDD is ok for movies.
 
@Ell bloody ell
 
you don't need to stick everything that matters on the SSD
 
6:22 PM
Also, French forum language is incomprehensible.
 
sbi
@sehe I suggest we delay the reminder of this discussion until 2035. :)
 
HDD is fine for most programs, I feel.
 
Ell
@rubenvb I guess if you're talking about measuring the speed of particles :L
 
@Puppy that's nonsense
 
Ell
And I'm not just talking about any old particles
 
6:23 PM
@milleniumbug 60GB? You should have known better.
 
@sbi fine :)
 
SSD is best for OS and some of the most frequently used programs
 
@Puppy if you want them to load slow as hell
 
@BartekBanachewicz 500 GB HD? What age are you from? :P
 
Splitting data manually just to fit it on a tiny tiny disk is silly
 
6:23 PM
@Puppy and that takes 120GB for me
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which is fine considering their rare usage.
 
@Mysticial I really don't use that piece of crap often
you could unplug that HDD and I wouldn't really care
my internet connection is faster than this piece of crap anyway
 
HDDs are not hip.
Hip Disk Drive.
 
@StackedCrooked 25GB for OS + some extra reserve space = 60GB
 
Or are they?
 
sbi
6:25 PM
Well, I'm gonna go back to my template error messages then... Bye.
 
MOAR RAM
ALWAYS MOAR RAM
 
Ell
@sbi bye :)
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion "ROAR RAM!", yells the lion!
 
Yes, I should have known better.
 
6:26 PM
@CatPlusPlus I really don't need 3TB of local data
128GB was fine for quite some time.
 
Right I forgot you keep everything in the butt
 
Ell
In the what what?
 
if I buy a 256GB SSD now I'm covered for quite some time
 
Ell
What what in the butt
 
@Ell he calls cloud "butt"
that's his opposition
 
Ell
6:26 PM
Oh right :P
 
I have 250GB SSD builtin drive, a 1TB via usb2.0, a 2TB via usb3.0 and a 3TB drive over wifi 802.11ac.
Mostly filled with anime.
 
@BartekBanachewicz don't think so, I'm replacing my 256 now.
 
@JohanLarsson I'll have 128+256
 
I really hate myself for splitting this shit into two partitions
 
yeah we all know you can't manage your disk space
inb4 :lol:
 
6:28 PM
What
 
dang it.
 
I bought a 14 TB NAS so I would not have to worry for a while.
 
...you did what?
 
FOR GODS SAKE WHERE IS THE FUCKING QT "BACK" BUTTON
@CatPlusPlus you sound like a fucking laptop commercial
> standard laptop - 500GB
> our laptop - 2TB - 4xFASTER!
 
6:29 PM
What
 
people obsessed with local storage space are both amusing and annoying
 
What.
 
it's like downloading webpages to floppy disks
 
Okay you finish and I'll 'what' everything in one go
 
Lol, the irony.
 
6:30 PM
well it's basically the same kind of idiocy
 
ITT Bartek finds people that are not hip annoying.
 
HDD still have less lag than most websites.
 
@milleniumbug mine doesn't.
but then again I don't follow TOP LINE OF HDD DEVELOPMENT
 
@BartekBanachewicz inb4 slow HDD
 
I'm not even going to
 
6:31 PM
yeah don't
use HDDs if you want
 
Yeah be a non-hip savage
Stupid muggle.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes says the person having 6 screens.
 
Everyone should!
 
@BartekBanachewicz Want
 
Six screens and one neck.
 
6:32 PM
Yeah what do you need 6 screens for, why don't you keep all your apps running in the butt
 
yeah just fuck off right
 
I'm always saying everyone without them is an idiot.
 
I'd get 3rd screen but I don't have the desk space for it
 
SO keeps their data on SSDs solely BTW
 
No they don't
 
6:33 PM
@CatPlusPlus rotate the side ones to vertical
it works great for me
 
0
A: Which is faster: while(1) or while(2)?

janosWait a minute. The interviewer, did he look like this guy? In that case yes, while(1) is indeed faster than while(2).

There's a lot of terrible answers on that Q. lol
 
> Storage

We currently have about 2 TB of SQL data (1.06 TB / 1.63 TB across 18 SSDs on the first cluster, 889 GB / 1.45 TB across 4 SSDs on the second cluster), so that’s what we’d need on the cloud (hmmm, there’s that word again). Keep in mind that’s all SSD.
 
Also database servers have a vastly different IOPS needs than desktop computers
 
Oh. I'll buy 18 SSDs right away!
 
@CatPlusPlus does that qualify as "No True Scotsman"? /cc @r.m
 
6:35 PM
No
That qualifies as "knowing what the fuck you're talking about"
 
> SO uses only SSDs
> no they don't
> they do [citation]
> databases need different things anyway
if that's how this is gonna look then I'm out at this point.
 
I was wrong, yes, that's not really relevant though
9
Yes please
 
It's raining, a bit nippy, I'm wearing a T-shirt and the shortest shorts I own and both are soaked.
 
god bless my desk fan
 
Why are you outside
 
6:38 PM
Going home.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how... how short are they
 
oh wait you mean it's raining
 
@rubenvb would you trust a seagate drive?
 
No.
He's had issues with them repeatedly IIRC
 
WD is the only brand I have had trouble with I think.
 
6:39 PM
great I managed to install Qt on 5th try
 
It's cool that Seagate will have 8 - 10TB drives, but if they are not reliable what good are they?
 
I feel dumber after that butt talk
 
SSD is good for .o files.
 
Ell
I just use WD always
 
@StackedCrooked RAM is better
 
6:39 PM
I've never had a issue with WD
 
Right.
I should use RAM disks more often.
 
@Chimera I think that 150% size scaling after what, 2 years? isn't gonna be enough to keep HDDs in the market
especially considering more and more users use mobile devices
and however reliable hdds might be in workstations, a dropped laptop is a dropped laptop.
 
@BartekBanachewicz probably true. And we can only hope that SSD prices will come down.
continue to drop in price.
 
I hope they go so high everyone who uses them goes bankrupt and never talks about them again
 
@Chimera they've already come down to 50% what it was when I was buying my drive, and that was less than a year ago.
@CatPlusPlus why do you hate new technology so much?
 
6:41 PM
WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING THESE LEAPS OF LOGIC
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah I recently bought a Samsung EVO 250GB for $150.
 
@CatPlusPlus vOv why do you hate SSDs so much?
 
WD HDDs never failed me
 
I don't
 
@Chimera I think I'll get another AData
 
6:42 PM
@Chimera They're not gonna reliable. They'll probably last 6 months each if they aren't DOA.
 
1 min ago, by Cat Plus Plus
I hope they go so high everyone who uses them goes bankrupt and never talks about them again
seems pretty hateful TBH
I'd know.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I think he just hates you :S
 
Why would he hate me?
 
I decided to allow Spotlight (OSX indexer) to search my programming folder. I searched for Alexandrescu and first hit was this:
 
@Mysticial Hmm.. weird I've read that Samsung SSD's are quite reliable.
 
6:43 PM
template <class Pod, class T>
inline void pod_fill(Pod* b, Pod* e, T c)
{
    switch ((e - b) & 7)
    {
    case 0:
        while (b != e)
        {
            *b = c; ++b;
    case 7: *b = c; ++b;
    case 6: *b = c; ++b;
    case 5: *b = c; ++b;
    case 4: *b = c; ++b;
    case 3: *b = c; ++b;
    case 2: *b = c; ++b;
    case 1: *b = c; ++b;
        }
    }
}
 
We disagree in shitload of things, that's not a reason to hate someone :O
 
@StackedCrooked Bleh burn it
 
I, for one, respect @Cat and his views a lot. I just disagree with a lot of them, too.
 
From flex_string.hpp in boost wave.
 
Reinventing memcpy FTW!
 
6:44 PM
@StackedCrooked Is that Duffs Device?
 
Yes
It's dumb
 
@Chimera yep
 
Dumbs Device?
 
lol
switch ((e - b) & 7) should be bashed on its own
 
@Chimera I'm talking about the Seagate drives.
 
6:44 PM
ok I have QTC
what do I do to OpenGL
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I was only kidding :)
 
@Mysticial Oh yeah... they suck.
 
> When numerous instances of Duff's device were removed from the XFree86 Server in version 4.0, there was an improvement in performance.
 
These weed selling guys really can't take a hint.
 
woah this new QTC interface is pretty nice
@R.MartinhoFernandes ahahahah
 
6:45 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Try tar and feathers
 
> Hello GL example
here I come
hmmm, looks nice
 
@BartekBanachewicz std::cout << "Hello from OpenGL" << std::endl;
6
 
I think I gonna make QTC my main IDE for my new job
 
does that work for you?
 
6:47 PM
Seagate keeps on boasting their size. But they lack performance and resilience.
 
        if(last == items_per_page)
        {
            // "Listen to me carefully: there is no memory leak"
            // -- Scott Meyers, Eff C++ 2nd Ed Item 10
            page = ::new block[items_per_page];
            last = 0;
        }
 
^^ waits for someone to take it out of context.
 
> I use binary notation of hexadecimal because it is more understandable for reader.
 
@chris well sometimes
BTW
 
Wtf is binary notation of hexadecimal?
 
6:48 PM
I just got a badge on meta for "200 rep in one day"
 
Binary notation of hexadecimal lol
 
how the hell can I get 200 rep if there are no rep gains there
 
It's bydesign
 
inb4 binary encoded ASCII hex-digits
 
Meaning it's a bug that won't be fixed but the SO team doesn't like calling them bugs.
 
6:49 PM
They also said this in the answer:

representation of both numbers in hexadecimal are as below
1: 0000000000000001
2: 0000000000000010
 
So I have no clue
 
@chris technically those are hexadecimal numbers
 
Impressive.
 
Are they just converting from base-16 to base-2?
 
6:50 PM
@BartekBanachewicz They claimed for 1 and 2
 
what does inb4 mean?
 
!!urban inb4
 
In before.
 
wait WE STILL HAVE NO BOT RIGHT
 
6:50 PM
@Chimera Two things 1) That the speaker speaks Bingo 2) In before
 
Sophisticated folks say "cue" instead.
 
Ell
@Chimera you say it when you're predicting what somebody is going to say
 
@chris Why... why did shog reopen this?
 
@Rapptz No clue.
 
@Ell Thanks. I just looked it upon in the urban dictionary.
 
6:52 PM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: i am there for your answers [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [c++-faq]
@R.MartinhoFernandes hihi
 
badass track
 
this room is the loungest
 
That message is the starbaitest.
 
let me try it
I'm naked.
 
Ell
Hmm. I wonder what wide's build system will be
 
6:54 PM
OKAY I'M NOT ROBOT
SO WHAT?
 
Put on some clothes.
 
:(
 
Something something Microsoft. Something something BS.
 
@Ell ha ha ha
 
This train station is not as I remember it.
They moved the cheese.
 
Ell
6:56 PM
Also I like ninja as a fast make, but it's not really a build system is it?
I think that's how it's designed right?
 
Ah. Construction work is finished.
 
@Ell yeah it is
 
It's a build engine
 
Ell
meh idk what the responsibilities of a build system are
or what they should be
I just know that I dislike most build systems
 
The engine is p much just graph resolver and executor
 
6:58 PM
@Ell don't worry cabal doesn't know either
 
I can't find "build engine" online
 
Build system is a higher level construct
 
Ell
@Xeo woo
 
6:59 PM
You should distribute your ideas online so you could find it through Google.
 
My terminology, it's useful to distinguish the two
Dunno what bad other people think
 

« first day (1377 days earlier)      last day (3573 days later) »