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Ell
12:00 AM
@Jefffrey also I think it should be "for each element x of the domain"
 
I did actually manage to get it to colour some other things I wanted, but they're a bit buggy.
 
My text book went along the lines of "Given two function f and g, they are equal if and only if: 1) the domain is the same 2) the range is the same 3) f(x) = g(x) for each element x of the domain.
And I was arguing that the 2 point is redundant.
@Ell yup
 
Ell
@Jefffrey it is
imho
I agree with you
 
@Jefffrey The codomain is the same IIRC
 
:D
 
12:01 AM
But the range can still be different
Or I might have just mixed them up
 
Oh wait, codomain and range is different?
 
@chris On the console you'd have to do view.scope_name(view.sel()[0].b) to get the scope name.
Domain and range are different concepts
I'm not sure what you guys are smoking
 
I've translated "dominio e codominio" from italian to english and it gave me "domain and range".
I've also googled it and I've found this as first result.
 
Given a set {(2, 5), (6, 10)} the domain is {2, 6} and the range is {5, 10}
so the domain is the input and the range is the output
You might have lost something in translation.
 
@Jefffrey Seems like image is the more accepted term for range, and it's a subset of the codomain
 
Ell
12:04 AM
@Rapptz we understand that, but the range isn't relevant
if f(x) == g(x)
well
 
@Ell It is relevant.
A function is only equal if the outputs are the same.
 
I should look through my Algebra notes and see what I was actually taught
 
Ell
if for each element x in the domain f(x) == g(x) then their ranges are obviously the same
 
Consider f(x) = x * 2 vs g(x) = x * x
 
Ell
@Rapptz but that is given as one of the conditions
in addition to their ranges being the same
 
12:05 AM
@Ell Domain and ranges are sets.
You can have the same output set but the functions don't have to be equal
 
Ell
huh
 
But I know it was something along the lines of all the posibilities for output vs what is actually output
 
Ell
how, with an equal domain? o.O
 
what do you guys mean with "what is actually output"?
 
Like limiting the domain of f(x) = x would cause a difference
 
12:06 AM
@Ell Consider a function that outputs sequentially [1, 7, 10, 11] and another that outputs [10, 7, 11, 1]. The set is {1, 7, 10, 11} and they're both equal but f(x) != g(x) for the same input.
 
You'd have, say, ℝ as the codomain and the limited domain as the image.
 
given a domain {1, 2, 3} and a function f(1) = a, f(2) = b and f(3) = c, the domain is {1, 2, 3} and the range is {a, b, c}. Or that's what I mean by range anyway.
 
Ell
@Rapptz Right
I understand that
 
I'm not sure where I'm losing you then.
 
Ell
Nor me o.O
 
12:08 AM
@Rapptz Pretty sure I tried that at one point, but it's been too long since I did that anyway.
 
@Jefffrey Yes. That's what I said.
 
Then what's the "codomain"?
I don't understand how codomain and range can possibly differ.
 
Ell
Maybe if could produce two functions x with the same domain and the same value for each input in the domain and yet a different range, I will be convinced that the range is relevant :P
 
@Jefffrey They are the same thing in this context.
 
In which context are they not the same thing?
 
Ell
12:10 AM
The crux of what I was saying was
 
In mathematics, an image is the subset of a function's codomain which is the output of the function on a subset of its domain. Precisely evaluating the function at each element of a subset X of the domain produces a set called the image of X under or through the function. The inverse image or preimage of a particular subset S of the codomain of a function is the set of all elements of the domain that map to the members of S. Image and inverse image may also be defined for general binary relations, not just functions. == Definition == The word "image" is used in three related ways. In thes...
 
Say you have a domain of {1} and f(x) = x, and a codomain of {1, 2, 3}. The image/range would be {1}. At least as far as I'm understanding it.
 
Ell
that if for each input x in the domain f(x) == g(x) then we can assert that their ranges are the same, can't we?
 
That's the definition of range/image/codomain we're using
 
Oh I see.
It's all about taking subsets.
 
12:13 AM
sorry misread
 
So for a function f : |R -> |R defined as f(x) = x * 2 the domain is |R and the codomain is |R, but for the subset {1, 2, 3} of the domain, the range is {2, 4, 6}. Yeah?
 
But yes that's what the thing is saying
@Jefffrey Yes
 
Ell
I don't really know where we disagree :L
but I need to sleep anyway
wish me luck for my interview tomorrow :P
night all :)
 
I don't think we're disagreeing
lol
night
 
12:15 AM
Then I don't understand what's the need for a new term. The domain just changed (has become {1, 2, 3}) therefore the codomain has changed.
@Ell night
 
@Jefffrey ..?
 
This code mentoring thing
 
What new term?
 
"range"
 
12:16 AM
@ell luck
 
it's an overloaded term
it's deprecated, don't use it
just use image
 
So this mentoring thing is fucking exhausting /cc @Puppy
 
good
:)
 
@BartekBanachewicz how did it go?
 
The guy wants a long-term mentorship
But I was physically exhausted after that
 
12:17 AM
10$/15min seems ok
 
a lot of my mistakes in code make me think "wow I am an idiot"
 
It's just... It's so demanding
 
what is long-term?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I guess it depends on the level of skills of the guy.
 
@jeff I charge $10/15min there
 
12:18 AM
@BartekBanachewicz yeah sorry I meant that
 
@crow it's more than just quick help vOv
 
@BartekBanachewicz how much did you earn in this session?
 
$50 - what codementor takes
 
I wish we had better friendship.
 
So around $40
 
12:19 AM
How long do most of those things usually go for anyway? 20-30 min?
 
This one was 1:15
But it took quite some time to set up
Next ones should be fairly smoother
I think 45 minutes is pretty long
 
Is it easy to get in?
 
And again after 1:15 I really felt physically tired
 
depends, some things can be pretty complicated, really
 
18
Q: clean C++ granular friend equivalent? (Answer: Attorney-Client Idiom)

JeffWhy does C++ have public members that anyone can call and friend declarations that expose all private members to given foreign classes or methods but offer no syntax to expose particular members to given callers? I want to express interfaces with some routines to be invoked only by known callers...

 
12:21 AM
@jefff what do you mean by "get in"?
 
Get to be accepted to be a codementor ~~official~~ guy
don't you need to pass a test or something?
 
I received an invitation
I think I was the first person there for the OpenGL
Otherwise you simply fill an application
Puppy is still waiting for his one to be accepted
 
And the clients are people that are having a specific problem or do they need tutoring to accomplish a piece of a project?
 
Both really
 
What if you can't answer?
 
12:24 AM
You first talk about the topic
 
on that site, can you ask a mentor to look at your code and tell you where the problems are, and what should be done better?
 
@Crow yes
 
I see
 
There's also a bunch of newbies that want some guidance
Those are less demanding I suppose
 
Interesting.
 
12:26 AM
The "real deal" guys charge 30-40 /15min and they say they can help with stuff like database migrations or iOS advanced development
 
some of these rates are pretty expensive
 
When filing a help request, you can state that you are short on cash or that you want just top-quality people
 
I think $150/hour is fairly standard for programmer consultants in Sweden.
 
that's a lot
 
CAD consultants are a bit cheaper
 
12:28 AM
it's probably not incredibly unreasonable, just seems like not too much can be explained in 15 minutes. I kinda want to find help with javascript because I am awful at it
 
> Concurrent access to cout is not threadsafe.
Is their definition of threadsafe correct? It interleaves, but there's no UB or anything as far as I'm aware
 
@jefffrey compared to normal rates in Poland, that's a fortune
 
@Jefffrey yes I never understood how we can pay that much. Trivial to check how much the guy makes and just offer the consulting firm a 10% cut. At least if the market is decent. It is a sellers market at the moment though.
 
you mean that there are way more sellers than buyers?
 
The other way around, demand is high. Might have invented 'sellers market' right here :)
 
12:31 AM
by the way I love "mush" instead of "much" :3
 
@johan "sellers' market" is pretty clear
 
yeah, it's just me being dumb
 
Well I don't mind earning my monthly wage for a few hours a month
But I need to work with on effectiveness
I see a huge potential in it though
 
you can't possibly know, you have been invited
 
12:34 AM
@Jefffrey don't beat yourself up
 
What was that "removed"?
 
I saw it and it was a good q, ask it again Jeffrey
Ell morning!
 
Ell
I'm too nervous to sleep :'(
 
It'll be fine.
 
@BartekBanachewicz If they make you sign something or if you are legally bind to something after you submit the request / accept the invitation.
@Ell Nervous for what?
 
12:38 AM
what do lines like this mean? app.config.from_object(c[config] or c['default'])
 
@Ell Watch this and try to stay awake for 30 minutes. Good stuff but also good for falling asleep.
 
@Crow what language
 
python atm
 
@Crow I would bet c[config] or c['default'] selects c[config] if it's not null or c['default'] otherwise
 
Ell
12:40 AM
@jefffrey I have to present to some people tomorrow for a scholarship telling them why I should get it
But it's supposed to last 15 minutes and I'm not that interesting :P
 
@Jefffrey. There are ToS, but it's nothing really uncommon. They are just happy to give you a platform. Freelancer.com is pretty similar in that regard.
 
@Jefffrey do you think it could apply to an Exception as well? Eg, get c[config] but if that is a KeyError, go to c['default']?
 
Ell
@bartek what kind of mentoring? You're there to answer their questions?
Or do you have to teach?
 
@Ell both.
 
@Crow I doubt that. Exceptions can only be stopped via a catch in most programs. I've never seen a program catch via an or.
@Ell Good luck.
 
12:42 AM
Teaching ultimately should be about answering questions :)
 
@Ell 15 minutes will fly, trust me.
 
15 minutes is nothing
Well okay it's $10 :D
 
...
 
would seem you're right there Jeff, that didn't work
 
I had to. SCNR.
 
12:44 AM
FWIW, Ruby has ||=: rubyinside.com/…
 
IOTT (it's ok this time).
 
but this did work, app.config.from_object(c.get(config, None) or c['default']), so yeah it seems to catch if it is null
 
Now that's a cryptic acronym
 
FY, you guys and your need for no-so-used-acronyms
 
Okay you know what I have a dentist appointment on today's morning
Imma get to sleep
 
12:47 AM
Or briefly OYKWIHADAOTM.
 
night
 
We will be starting the #stackexchange chat maintenance in about 15 minutes, downtime should be brief. http://stackstatus.net/post/92572393494/chat-maintenance-july-24-2014-at-9-pm-est-1-am-utc
 
5-10 minutes
I might as well kill myself
My life has no meaning outside of SO
 
open transcript in a couple of tabs?
 
12:53 AM
I guess I could go make supper
It's like 9 pm
Someone just said C++ looks HTML-ish.
(Someone not familiar with programming)
 
(or intelligent reasoning)
 
Dang it I was going to eat
What am I doing
 
dang
 
I was trying to figure out who pinged me
 
1:19 AM
#stackexchange chat is going down for the move now. ETA is less than 20 minutes.
 
Fun.
 
The #stackexchange chat move is now complete, enjoy your evening!
 
Dang it, I still put off eating
How can I put off eating
That's like the last thing I would put off
 
1:38 AM
"Best before: Dec 03"
Mouldy
Stupid cheese
It was in the fridge since I bought it, wrapped in the packaging, in a bag.
Should've known better than to trust cheese that supposedly lasts for half a year
 
1:56 AM
Dec 03 thats 11 years ago =/
 
That's what I thought at first actually
Every time I see 03, I think of 2003
Because C++03
 
Hello mah C++ fellas!! :)
 
@CodeWiz94 hello
 
Ell
Damn I'm still not asleep
 
2:15 AM
you should read a book, computer screens generate so much light that they tend to cause insomnia
 
My sister's spamming me with emoji on Skype. What do I do
 
/alertsoff
 
spam back
 
remove skype
 
2:36 AM
remove your sister
 
She's worse than a clingy girlfriend going through some stage
I've only been gone for like 3 months
> My battery is about to die
Robot, do you have something to do with this?
 
2:54 AM
user image
16
 
Crazy how this search thingy works. — Jefffrey 52 secs ago
I'm just terrible.
It's also 5AM fuck
 
3:39 AM
Another "C is so easy!" circlejerk and probably ignorance.
 
Hello all.
 
hey beautiful
 
Oooh, thanks! :)
 
4:00 AM
@Rapptz It's more like "C is better because abstractions are evil". Which is also bullshit.
 
"I want more control! For performance!"
 
> My perspective is from a college CS major that is going for a very technical understanding.
 
 
 
1 hour later…
5:21 AM
Is there a reason why GCC rejects this:
VS2013 compiles it fine.
 
Trying adding the template keyword.
 
because VS is bad
this->template foo<double>();
 
wtf...
 
two phase lookup
dependent name
 
5:25 AM
And because VS is dumb, yes.
 
The this-> took me about half an hour to figure out.
But the template part I couldn't figure out.
 
lol
 
All this code was working fine in VS2013. Until I tried to compile it in GCC.
 
this is one of the few errors clang is better at
main.cpp:13:15: error: use 'template' keyword to treat 'foo' as a dependent template name
        this->foo<double>();
              ^
              template
 
@Rapptz Haha, that is cool.
 
5:26 AM
goddamn
 
lol
 
Clearly I'm still bad at this template thing.
 
Oh Christ
 
@MarkGarcia makes you wonder why it's necessary :v
 
Xeo
> Duesseldorf, Germany 07/25/2014 5:48 A.M. Out For Delivery
whooo
 
5:28 AM
Your rig?
 
Xeo
PSU
the only part missing
 
332
Q: Where and why do I have to put the "template" and "typename" keywords?

MSaltersIn templates, where and why do I have to put typename and template on dependent names? What exactly are dependent names anyway? I have the following code: template <typename T, typename Tail> // Tail will be a UnionNode too. struct UnionNode : public Tail { // ... template<typename U> st...

 
Xeo
my Saturday is saved \o/
 
@Rapptz Hm. That's one good point.
 
@MarkGarcia It isn't. I think it just knows because it's trivial.
 
Xeo
5:31 AM
@Rapptz You get the error because at instantiation time it notices that foo was actually a function template.
And it decided at parsing time that it's a simple value
the template tells the compiler what it actually is, and makes it a dependent name
 
beat ya to it chump!
these grapes are delicious
 
And I just got hit by this:
5
Q: What is wrong with my usage of C++ standard library's find?

Josh GloverI'm trying to use the C++ standard library's find algorithm like this: template<class T> const unsigned int AdjacencyList<T>::_index_for_node( const std::vector<T>& list, const T& node ) throw(NoSuchNodeException) { std::vector<T>::iterator iter = std::find(list.begin(), list.e...

Thank you James.
 
Xeo
auto
 
@Xeo Mine's slightly different:
auto ap_uptr = typename MyType<T>::placed_uptr(
    new (ap) MyType<T>( ... )
);
Where:
typedef std::unique_ptr<MyType,deleter> placed_uptr;
 
Xeo
MyType<T>::make_uptr
 
5:35 AM
Ugh again with the STL/stdlib argument... don't people ever get tired of it? — Matteo Italia Apr 19 '11 at 17:05
lol
 
@Xeo That entire module used to be ugly C with no RAII. It's got bigger problems than a couple of weird typedefs. :)
 
"We only use 10% of our brain" in a trailer for a movie ._.
its the main plot
to use "100% of your brain"
man
 
Which one is that again? I forget the name
It was soul-crushing hearing Morgan Freeman say that, but the movie itself looks decently interesting
 
It's called Lucy
 
Oh right
 
5:41 AM
Looks incredibly stupid
 
well, limitless & inception used the same theme - that we could make more use of our brains
 
Xeo
@Rapptz I just want to face palm every time that is used
 
limitless was also stupid
it was basically a movie about a guy taking adderall.
inception didn't have to do with "brain power", it had to do with dreams
 
Inception was better the second time around after watching this.
 
Cobb: They say we only use a fraction of our brain's true potential. Now that's when we're awake. When we're asleep, we can do almost anything.
 
5:45 AM
a line != main plot
 
@chmod711telkitty I actually agree with that statement. It's completely different than the stupid 10% and if we used 100%, we'd be so much better thing.
Dreams are... interesting.
 
when you're asleep you can't do shit
 
You can have very different ways of seeing things.
 
I recommend taking a psychology course btw
it teaches about sleep and dreams
 
Dream incubation is a practiced technique of learning to "plant a seed" in the mind, in order for a specific dream topic to occur, either for recreation or to attempt to solve a problem. For example, a person might go to bed repeating to themselves that they will dream about a presentation they have coming up, or a vacation they recently took. While somewhat similar to lucid dreaming, dream incubation is simply focusing attention on a specific issue when going to sleep. == Description == In a study at Harvard Medical School, Dr. Deirdre Barrett had her students focus on a problem, such as...
Unfortunately, I have yet to actually try firsthand to do anything like think about a problem I'm having in a dream
But the really nice thing is that it can be so much easier to visualize something. As Inception says, you can dream up things that can't exist in the real world.
 
5:51 AM
You can do that while you're awake too
And way better
 
depends on the problem
 
I'm way more imaginative in my dreams, just that I don't actually have any power over what I imagine 99% of the time
 
ususally brain can solve problems better when awake
 
And in a dream, you can actually interact with things.
It wouldn't seem unreasonable to me for someone who's struggling with elementary school Math to have a fulfilling dream where they interact with the numbers.
After that, it would be much easier to think that up during the day.
 
There are more complicated problems that could be solved better in dreams - but there are conditions associated with it - you have to be stuck on a problem, you are thinking about it day and night, you are actually 'sleeping on' the problem. I think I have done it before - once or twice, many years ago
Nowadays I am satisfied with that 10% of my brain that I actually use ... :p
 
5:55 AM
@chmod711telkitty Well then I'm kind of envious because I want to experience that. I kind of need a problem worth solving, though.
I'm not sure how well these things go when lucid dreaming, either.
It does seem that watching the solution come to fruition is pretty common.
 
it's not about lucid dreaming, you kind of sleep with a problem in your head and wake up with a solution
 
@chmod711telkitty That's what I mean. I'm wondering if you can actually trigger that sort of thing while lucid.
Rather than them being mutually exclusive unless you happen to become lucid.
 
well, my brain still solves more than 99.9% of the problems when I am awake :p
 
@chmod711telkitty Yeah, the dream stuff is pretty niche
But potentially really useful
I mean even trying to learn a concept and seeing it in a completely different way, happening right in front of you, could elicit an aha moment.
 
It could be that I would be able to solve the problem when I was awake, but it just happened that the last piece of the puzzle was done in dreams. Remember your brain doesn't stop working when you are asleep and you are only able to remember a very small percentage of your dreams? Ever wonder where your mind is that 8 hours a night when you are asleep?
brain rest more in those 8 hours, yes
 
6:06 AM
@chmod711telkitty You wouldn't be dreaming for a lot of that.
Still, remembering more of your dreams becomes more possible if you keep a dream journal.
 
probably true
 
But yeah, the main explanation I've seen for what the brain is doing is, TL;DR, organizing recent memories.
Eh, even if I never do have a night where I see what it's like to solve a problem or learn a concept in a dream, I'd still be perfectly content being lucid every now and then.
And that's something you can almost guarantee given enough effort.
 
do you ever sleep on a problem?
 
Not yet.
Maybe unconsciously a little, but nothing would have ever come of that
I haven't specifically tried yet.
 
works better if it is a logic problem (maths included) ... and you have enough sleep
 
6:12 AM
Still lots of university left. I'm sure there will be some nice chances there.
I wonder if it would work better on the Everyman sleep cycle.
I actually got lucid a couple times in a short period without even trying while failing at that.
So who knows, maybe sleeping on a problem would work better with it.
 
I wonder whether I solved those problems when I was asleep or was it during the time period between I naturally waking up and the time I actually got off the bed
 
It might have been me getting to sleep quicker. 20 minute naps don't leave much time to get to sleep, so if I actually had a dream, it would mean I got to sleep quickly.
Well, it's past 2 am
I should sleep. I have no problem to sleep on.
Maybe I can think about why that stupid cheese got mouldy over four months early.
 
6:31 AM
Those Intel Iris Pro Graphics are quite good.
> r/mildlyinteresting
> mildly
 
Can anyone come up with a hypothesis for how this happened?
 
6:46 AM
@StackedCrooked There's another car behind the white one, so the red one might have drove on top of it first.
 
6:58 AM
or a crane ... or typhoon
 

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