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2:00 AM
@AlexM. programming path
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey picked up a keyboard, started slamming it with boxing gloves on. The usual
 
How did you have your first contact with programming?
 
hmm
back in elementary I was this huge fan of the Gothic series (games), and an active member on one of the forums dedicated to it
in the end I started doing some modding
 
Ell
When I was 9 I would make programmes in excel
 
and the tools for Gothic were so meh that you essentially had to code to achieve anything
 
Ell
2:01 AM
It only supports 13 levels of nested ifs though
 
so yeah that's when I wrote some stuff, in a language the engine interpreted
 
Ell
Can't remember why I wanted that :L
 
even dialogues were done in code
 
When I was a kid I learned how to make programs on my calculator using TI-Basic
 
nice
 
Ell
2:02 AM
So I moved to as2 when I got to highschool
Then visual basic
 
I think some time after that I went to a book store and saw "visual basic game programming for teens"
 
Ell
Then ruby is when I realised that programming was an actual thing that people did and that everything on a computer was programmed
Idk what I thought before
 
got it, didn't make any games in visual basic but I did some GUI stuff
then went to high school where I found out that C# exists
and I took off from there
that transition between elementary and high school was probably the most important period
back in the visual basic days I only knew how to declare variables and perform checks on them, I had no idea that loops existed
 
I began with PhpBB basically. Setting it up, modifying it, etc... From there I went to Php, then HTML/CSS and then JS. Then Stack Overflow. Then C++ for whatever reason. Then C++ room. Then Ruby. Then Haskell. Then Python.
 
and what they were doing
thinking of it back then, I was really into school back when I started hs
 
2:06 AM
hs?
 
and was willing to participate in contests and extra projects and whatnot
@Jefffrey high school
 
right
 
I mean related to programming
 
Since the beginning, except for goals and experience, what changed?
 
I gradually lost contact with people IRL, I think
that's probably the biggest change
back in elementary I was one of those taking their skateboard out and having fun with others
 
2:09 AM
After programming on my calculator I moved on to hacking games for about 7 years.
I used some weird dialect of C with Classes or something.
 
@AlexM. Do you miss that?
 
I don't know
I mean
I could say a lot about what advantages my current self has
but I'm not sure if I'd be 100% accurate
and not trying to hide regret or sth
there is one thing about my craft that I regret
Oct 3 at 16:42, by Alex M.
my parents were never interested in buying me proper hardware and games like my colleagues had, so I had to find a job
but perhaps the main contributor there is my obsession with time running out :P
 
what do you mean?
 
you don't get the time you don't spend the way you'd like back, that's basically it
and given the fact that we don't live forever, yeah...
 
did you guys know you can buy 1000 surgical masks for $20
what a dream
 
2:20 AM
@Jefffrey it's a bit annoying at times
the only reason I'm going to college right now is because I promised my parents that I'd finish it
but my main issue right now
is how I'd be able to make them make up for the three years that I've lost
which is impossible
 
Ell
Man I'm jelly of folks on /g desktop threads
They always look so good
 
I'm not even sure how I'd be able to set a material reward for time like that
you can't even do that
how much money is a second
 
@Ell You mean those neckbeards at 4chan are handsome???
 
when you've lost it doing nothing that's benefiting you
 
Good morning.
@Rapptz Are those different from those sold at drugstores?
 
2:23 AM
no
"neckbeard"
 
TIL about /g/
 
what a newfag
 
also jesus christ there's stallman on the first page
 
don't bother visiting
it's a shitfest
yes
 
@Rapptz I check r/4chan every now and then
 
2:25 AM
/r/4chan is worse than 4chan
 
@Rapptz Why would you need to buy that
 
4chan is worse than 4chan.
 
@Borgleader scroll up
 
@Borgleader Apocalypse.
 
Oh it's too far to scroll up.
I'm sick of my mom smoking in my house
I don't like second hand smoke.
 
2:26 AM
@AlexM. well, it's not nothing
 
Ell
OS X is quite pretty
But can be a bit sickly
 
OS X is not terrible. It has its annoyances like any other OS.
Especially not as terrible as the people that don't use it, picture it.
 
seems the guy's full story is there
 
Ell
Man that is crazy
 
2:35 AM
That's literally what I said.
 
also here's some elevator music to enjoy while reading the guy's grim story
 
Ell
Man I agree, that is crazy
 
user1646075
thought you were going to sleep
 
@AlexM. lol
 
2:51 AM
How lovely. A localised program that doesn’t have a language setting. And which configuration file contains (escaped) byte-arrays in source form.
e.g. geometry=@ByteArray(\xde\xad\xbe\xef)
 
3:09 AM
@Rapptz I have discovered people who masturbate on their ThinkPads
ok, that's enough of a reason for me to go to sleep
 
nn
 
LOL (Kiefer Sutherland in prison) ^
 
hi
i have a maths query
i want to input a number, and output the sum of all previous numbers to that one
thus:
1 = 1
2 = (1+2) 3
 
Hello, this is not a helpdesk.
 
3:24 AM
@RozzA So what's your question?
 
user1646075
and we don't understand maths
 
@RozzA You mean (1 + 2)?
 
user1646075
he means 2 => 1 + 2 = 3
 
ok
 
-__-
 
user1646075
3:26 AM
or is it 2: 1 + 2 => 3
 
is there a stack maths?
 
what's a stack maths?
 
user1646075
oh, you need FORTH or Postscript for that
 
a stackoverflow for maths
 
try googling "math stackexchange"
 
3:28 AM
indeed.
 
3:56 AM
@Jefffrey I wish I could understand a fraction of the problems going on in there.
 
4:24 AM
@RozzA You want Gauss' summation formula.
 
user1646075
@RozzA here you go, mate. A stacked implementation
 
user1646075
: sum dup 1+ over 2/ * over 2 mod if over 2/ 1+ + then swap drop ;
: test 0 do i sum i . ." => " . cr loop ;
10 test

0 => 0
1 => 1
2 => 3
3 => 6
4 => 10
5 => 15
6 => 21
7 => 28
8 => 36
9 => 45
ok
 
user1646075
apologies for using integer math; forcing the final modulo test and extra addition
 
user1646075
4:40 AM
@Rapptz niice. Need something like that on the endless fizzbuzz tomfoolery that goes around.
 
5:32 AM
So they planned to weaponize it?
Also...
> Bhut jolokia is used as a food and a spice, as well as a remedy to summer heat
 
user1646075
a remedy? How do they figure that????
 
 
@GuruAdrian See citation (I didn't read through).
 
user1646075
chasing it now. stand by!
 
user1646075
“It is so hot you can’t even imagine,” said the farmer, Digonta Saikia, working in his fields in the midday sun, his face nearly invisible behind an enormous straw hat. “When you eat it, it’s like dying.” Outsiders, he insisted, shouldn’t even try it. “If you eat one,” he told a visitor, “you will not be able to leave this place.”
 
user1646075
5:39 AM
D'Oh! more text after a clicker. Hate that.
 
Maybe it's misworded for "challenge".
 
user1646075
aaannnddd still no explanations
 
user1646075
maybe if you feel like you are dying, you don't give a damn about the 45C temperature at 100% humidity
 
6:04 AM
@GuruAdrian Maybe it's just so hot it drives you completely insane, so you no longer have any clue of what's happening in what the rest of us consider the real world.
 
user1646075
or maybe you try to scull so much water and milk, it spills all over you and cools you down
 
user1646075
and it makes any intestinal worms explode, therefore improving your general stomach health.
 
It probably referred to that.
 
Well if the former does end up deprecated there’ll be a deprecated attribute as a matter of QoI, so that can help ;)
 
That I really hope they'll implement.
 
Both GCC and Clang have it. Or do you mean actually marking deprecated stuff as such?
 
I missed the proposal tweak that did the bool to int change. I wonder why that is.
it does make a lot of sense though—exception handlers as a (dynamic) stack of scopes.
 
6:45 AM
> constexpr T&& operator *() &&;
really wish I knew where to find the discussion that led to this change
 
Smart pointer types?
 
> If is_move_constructible_v<T> is false, the program is ill-formed.
^ah, that may be it
@MarkGarcia Whoops, forgot the context: std::experimental::optional.
 
Thanks.
 
It used to return T.
As a consequence, it means that something like auto&& uhoh = *make_optional(42); now creates a dangling reference.
 
@LucDanton lol
why would you ever return T&& :|
 
6:52 AM
works for non-move types :o
 
why can't it just copy instead of move?
or do you mean non-copy non-move types?
 
well yeah
 
I don't get this type of special casing then
std::vector requires MoveConstructible for its element type
Why would what you feed to std::optional be special?
 
Right, for reallocation purposes. Optional doesn’t do that.
 
Why can't it do SFINAE?
 
6:55 AM
Makes generic programming harder.
That being said, the exact behaviour of using * on rvalues could use some consensus.
 
The fact the internal type is already non-copy + non-move is already 'hard' enough lol
 
Is it? You have a box of at most one value, and if you * you get a ref to it.
You needn’t know more.
Combine that with ContextualBool and you have a very minimal interface that does cover a lot of uses.
 
How do you move inside for the non-copy/non-move case? In/Emplace?
 
@MarkGarcia Ye, looks like optional<no_move> o { in_place, foo, bar, baz };.
Well, technically you don’t move inside :)
 
I consider types that don't meet the Regular concept a pain to deal with in general.
 
6:59 AM
Or optional<no_move> starts_empty; starts_empty.emplace(foo, bar, baz);
@Rapptz Do you really copy values that often?
 
@LucDanton Yeah, the optional-as-container idiom-y.
 
@LucDanton It's not really copying.
 
I find Regular very steep to fulfill (in addition to being useless), outside of some domains (e.g. numerical stuff).
@Rapptz wat
 
I mean it's not limited to copying.
There's moving too.
 
Obviously…
 
7:02 AM
numerical stuff isn't a small domain :|
 
…but not so obvious that I shouldn’t spell it out: CopyConstructible is a refinement of MoveConstructible.
@Rapptz Right.
 
You know I'm not a fan of that definition in general.
 
I didn’t.
 
Or well, I thought you did.
I consider them separate.
 
Are you focused on the consumer or producer side of concepts? Consumer being user of a concept as in algo writers, producers as in implementers/writers of models.
 
7:05 AM
who's the bob that cat++ ate?
 
Consumer
Honestly I think most people work with types assuming they're Regular
 
I suggest you try out a language with good generic programming support.
 
I'm not sure I understand the former question then.
 
About copying values?
 
morning
 
7:08 AM
hi
 
That's a huge assumption. The compatibility will obviously not be better since sharing memory between C++ processes is hap-hazard enough already. But, you know, I can see your point about this being a different question. I'd say they were both X/Y problems for the same, real, problem. You can ask a mod to undupe-vote if you wish, I won't object. — sehe 7 secs ago
O gosh. The "Using Boost shared memory in PHP" guy... He's thinks he's serious
> The 1024 bit key I've been using since Jesus walked around in shorts, is considered weak…
lol
 
@Rapptz Can you name one non-container standard type (in the wider sense, so no strings or optionals) that is Regular, and how easy was it to find such a type?
 
I'm going to read that later, thanks for the heads up
 
I'm guessing you mean UDTs?
 
I did mean a type from the Standard library (so no decltype(nullptr)); in most cases it is unspecified whether a type of the Standard library is a UDT or not although let’s not go there :)
 
7:17 AM
@LucDanton std::exception, std::hash, std::bitset (if it counts), std::function (if it counts), the entirety of the function objects provided in <functional>, std::pair, std::tuple, probably some other things.
 
Many of those are not equality comparable.
 
I might be thinking of Semiregular then.
 
That would make more sense.
This was why I mentioned numeric code.
 
It's been a while since I dabbled in the original Concepts.
 
Niebler mentions and uses Semiregular in his work.
I honestly think that (Semi)regular would fade into the background if templates were sanely type-checked. Imposing default constructors on producers is a way to relieve consumers from doing that type-checking by hand.
It’s not my imagination: it’s fairly apparent in both Haskell and Rust that having a 'default' value is not enough on its own to make a concept.
@Rapptz So, why not try generic programming in more languages?
 
7:28 AM
I'm thinking by "more languages" you mean Haskell and ML
 
Sure, they have great generic programming facilities. (No need to try them all though, it’ll get redundant fast.)
Oh right, Rust doesn’t do default init at all.
D makes it explicit what you want, too.
@Rapptz Plenty of poisons to pick from.
 
7:46 AM
Swift also doesn’t easily let you default.
 
Xeo
8:01 AM
whee
T-9h to kitties
 
TIL of gltf. I hope it would bring COLLADA back from the dead.
Or maybe it is the new COLLADA.
 
user1804599
Bite my shiny metal ass.
 
user1804599
Oh wait I'm Zoidberg not Bender.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey all default
 
user1804599
@BenjaminGruenbaum foo ++ thisMethodCall is a tail call to ++, not thisMethodCall.
 
user1804599
8:13 AM
You can only apply TCO to recursive tail calls in Scala.
 
user1804599
Also @tailrec is optional similar to how override in C++ is optional.
 
@rightføld insert obvious joke here
 
user1804599
But will it bend?
 
succulent octopus usually eaten whole - head, tail & ...
 
user1804599
C++ Guise Programming Guide
 
Xeo
8:30 AM
Oh great. My bosses are out of the office today. So much for hoping to get some real work assigned to me today. -__- /cc @Puppy @Ell
And I can't even just play some game since my monitor faces the center of the room. meh
 
user1804599
Improve existing code.
 
spend the day browsing c2wiki
 
Interesting.
 
user1804599
8:45 AM
I want a kano.
 
In here, "kano" is a slang term for an American.
 
short for americano?
 
Yup.
 
user1804599
> First woman on the Moon:

"Houston, we have a problem."
What?
"Never mind"
What's the problem?
"Nothing"
Please tell us?
"I'm fine"
 
user1804599
Een gevulde koek is een ronde koek, gemaakt van boterdeeg en met een zoete vulling. Amandelspijs is de meest voorkomende vulling, maar een cakevulling wordt ook wel eens toegepast. Een gevulde koek heeft een diameter van circa 10 cm met meestal een in de lengte gehalveerd amandeltje er bovenop. De bovenkant van de koek is glimmend bruin, een effect dat wordt bereikt door het deeg te bestrijken met een geklutst ei alvorens de koek in de oven te bakken. De gemiddelde gevulde koek bevat een hoeveelheid vet vergelijkbaar met 3 ruime theelepels boter en een hoeveelheid suiker gelijk aan 5 suikerklontjes...
 
8:56 AM
morning hamburglers
 
user1804599
it's burglar not burgler
 
Xeo
lol
 
user1646075
it's gurglers<appendage>
 
@rightføld I think you'll find you're wrong
@Xeo ... is that a tied game?
 
user1804599
@Xeo LOL
 
8:59 AM
@MarkGarcia is it offensive?
 
@StackedCrooked Not necessarily. Some do use it derogatorily especially the anti American soldiers activists.
 
I see.
 
@Xeo at least you have the Lounge, I guess
 
user1646075
@Xeo yeah that really sucks. Is there nowhere you can go with a laptop - eg 'a change of scene to help the creative juices flow, guys'
 
we are today's entertainment ... not
 
user1646075
9:12 AM
sorry, are we boring you?
 
user1646075
tell us a story.
 
@Xeo yeah saw that already
cool :D
 
user1804599
Implicit conversions are so incredibad.
 
user1804599
How can one ever write generic code when there are implicit conversions?
 
Xeo
By being explicit whereever you can
 
9:24 AM
Hey, good news!
My Firefox is eating up 2gigs of memory
That's awesome because I recently disabled adblock+ after seeing firefox eat up crazy amounts of memory. Seems like that wasn't the culprit so now I can reenable it
glass half full
 
user1646075
heh. Staggering how much memory gets burned these days. What other plugins have you got?
 
Flashblock, SSL Version Control seem to be the only nontrivial ones
 
2GB is nowhere near crazy for a browser
 
user1646075
i liek flashblock...
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus are they just caching the crap out of everything, or is that all essential memory for an average page?
 
9:31 AM
Who cares
 
user1646075
Well, jalf for a start
 
@jalf does that including the cache?
clear your browsing history does wonders sometimes ...
 
Memory cache in Firefox is tiny
 
thought it is configurable
 
You can look at about:memory
 
9:32 AM
I've got 11 tabs open and FF uses just over 1 GB of memory
 
@CatPlusPlus depends on the browser. I rarely see FF use that much, even with my habit of having 60 tabs open
 
For Chromium-based browsers 2GB is "hey looks like I started Chromium-based browser"
 
Yeah, but that's Chromium
 
Dunno how much IE takes
 
depends on whether you count the rest of the OS it's integrated with
 
9:35 AM
most of the memory allocated is GUI and JavaScript.
not really cache
 
@CatPlusPlus Blood? Or tears?
 
IE doesn't take ... IE gives (headache)
 
user1646075
IE takes your soul.
 
@CatPlusPlus much less
 
user1804599
sausage rolls, two days over date
 
user1804599
9:49 AM
eat or not eat?
 
I wouldn't eat
 
user1804599
They're not green or blue from the outside.
 
Xeo
aaah, I want it to be 7h later now
 
problem is that spoiled sausage can make you really sick
 
user1646075
were they ALWAYS in a fridge or freezer? no thawing, no sitting in a car for 2 hours on the way home?
 
user1646075
9:51 AM
still, dodgy. the vomit-inducing bugs don't show pretty colours in the food
 
user1804599
Fridge.
 
user1804599
Always.
 
user1804599
Beh, I'll dispose them.
 
good idea
 
user1804599
5 euros into the bin.
 
user1804599
9:52 AM
OTOH cure for illness is free.
 
do you have any pest you want to get rid of in the neighbourhood, a fox or something? feed it to the pest
 
user1646075
probably a use-by rather than best-before type of date on something like that. They're always conservative, but for a good reason at times
 
user1804599
I could put it in a box, label it "Africa" and bring it to the post office.
 
user1646075
a dog will digest them without trouble.
 
user1804599
Hey @Puppy I hate throwing away food so come over you lazy dog.
 
9:54 AM
I was thinking more along the lines of xeo's cats
 
user1804599
I've eaten enough rotten food in the past years.
 
user1804599
> You need Flash player 10 or better to be able to use Pixlr Editor - Get Flash Player
 
user1646075
nibble a crum. You'll develop homeopathic immunity to botulism
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
9:55 AM
> The disease begins with weakness, trouble seeing, feeling tired, and trouble speaking.
 
user1804599
I already have that!
 
What disease is that? Expired sausage roll disease?
 
user1646075
the botulism toxin is the most lethal known. I saw a graph of things, eg mercury, arsenic, etc etc. getting down to smaller lethal doses on a fairly orderly continuum. Then there was a bit of a gap, and then there was ricin. Then there was a huuuge gap, then bolulinum. it's supposed to require less than one molecule per cell to cause cell death. i think that means it kills one cell then screams running at the next cell looking for more blood.
 
user1804599
> Botulism (Latin, botulus, a sausage)
 
user1646075
 
user1804599
9:59 AM
Hey @GuruAdrian is your avatar a portrait of you?
 

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