« first day (1496 days earlier)      last day (3453 days later) » 

2:00 PM
There isn't much benefit in wiping the history.
> The Titanic isn't sinking! My end is 20 feet up in the air!
 
@Puppy that's absurd. If you report an issue it is perfect valid. If it sits there for ten years, it's still valid. As robot said, close as 'too old to mater'.
The problem was, we were seeing issues being ignored, issues that stopped us testing properly.
@R.MartinhoFernandes or that it's incidentally fixed by a later version.
@R.MartinhoFernandes precious disk space
WOAH! Portable Fusion Reactor takes a fuck tonne of raw resources
 
@thecoshman you don't know that it is still valid, without putting work into verifying it
The component containing the bug might have been rewritten. Other bugfixes or addition of new features might have incidentally fixed the bug
 
lol someone I know has a really nice Audi and keeps wrecking their tyres and wheels. Idiot kids with their fancy cars that can't actually drive.
 
> I strongly believe that organization for the 2014 World Cup should go ahead even though the 2012 edition is still in progress.
 
@Abyx Oooh. Clue stick arrived
 
2:17 PM
@jalf well, if it was reported it was valid. If it's old, you probably can close it. Either way though, if that fault was seen back then, years ago, and someone reports that same fault now, you have some history that might link these together. It might be a red-herring true enough, but it might help you realise it's in one of the few areas of code that haven't changed in all that time.
 
how much is Factorio anyway?
 
Ell
£10
 
user1804599
IME it's free.
 
Demo is short and doesn't have cool stuff like trains and tanks
 
user1804599
I have full version.
 
2:30 PM
it's kinda annoying in facotorio that the 'advanced' versions of things don't always use up the 'basic' version.
like the modular body armour, then power armour, then power armour mk2
 
^ jesus, The Guardian... watch out for the feminazis
 
Xeo
Hm. C#: Any way to express Zip in LINQ's query syntax?
 
No. Query syntax is crap.
 
Xeo
:(
 
Tuple<Range<T>, Range<X>> -> Range<Tuple<T, X>>, right?
 
2:32 PM
Write it with method calls and then convert it with R#
 
Changing from ‘kind regards’ to just ‘regards’, to indicate that you’re rapidly reaching the end of your tether
 
Seems to me like "British" is just a fancy way of saying "passive-aggressive"
Good morning, by the way.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That reminds me I should have lunch.
 
@EtiennedeMartel One would not say you were completely wrong.
 
2:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh yes, very nice
I think when I move into my place, as I'll have a nice room for myself, I'm going to make a large companion cube... to keep me happy.
 
Companion Die > Companion Cube.
 
:O but a companion cube die
 
phf, having a laugh right, 30 quid my arse
what's it made of, crack?
 
Stainless steel.
I wonder why translucent plastic costs almost as much as the stainless steel one, though.
 
2:51 PM
This appears to be some strange try to get me, the user, to invalidate my own support request. Why don't you just slam that door yourself? It appears you have some good arguments to make that case. You don't need to rhetorically get me to agree. I don't. FWIW you (the SE team) requested precisely the feedback you are getting. I don't get the passive aggression in the response. I didn't attack anyone, I didn't even claim it's not a browser bug. I just reported the feedback requested. — sehe 1 min ago
Nice style, SE
 
@EtiennedeMartel Seems to me you're right.
@EtiennedeMartel hi
@thecoshman haha
 
Why does an inserter take from both lines of the transporter belt?
I thought it took only from one.
 
I saw this image in thumbnail and thought "ooh I'd like to get one of those - makes it look like I have a key to a spaceship or something". Took a few moments to realise that the key is not the item on sale -.-
 
@Jefffrey no, it puts onto one, takes from both.
hint: smart insertors
 
@thecoshman What do they do?
 
2:57 PM
@Jefffrey only pick up a certain item (or items)
 
Nice thanks
 
@Jefffrey They prefer near lane
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, well mines a 'one side bus' but idea is I keep feeding new lanes of items as the produce continues.
 
choo choo
or whatever noise buses make
 
.@Dawla__accountt The middle photo is taken from Hungarian porn. Stop using fake photos to “trick” people into supporting your lost cause.
 
Xeo
3:02 PM
@CatPlusPlus All those delicious resources...
 
@thecoshman if it was reported then it was valid in the version it was reported against (at least ,assuming the reporter wasn't simply mistaken about the intended behavior). But there is no guarantee it is valid in any current or supported version
 
@TonyTheLion pfft
 
Need more iron smelters
 
Or better buffer technique
Or fuck buffering
 
3:11 PM
@rightføld Oh, yesterday's talk is already online :) Nothing fancy though, just implementing a simple universe simulation to demonstrate user-defined types like CelestialBody and Vector2D.
 
@ThinkAgain_DOS "The middle photo is taken from Hungarian porn." How would you know that? #firsthandexperience
So tempted to respond with #righthandexperience
 
Ell
@sehe eyou made me lol
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow cool
 
@rightføld Unfortunately, time ran out before we could get to the interesting part: gravity :-D
 
@Ell Yeah it's a good joke. Not one I'm putting on my twitter timeline though :/
 
3:14 PM
Long-handed close inserters nice for balancing the load on a belt a little
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Gravity is a great song.
 
@Tony our printer at work has a fancy touchscreen thing but if you plug a USB drive in and ask it to print a png, it prints out a page that says "can only print jpegs from USB"
 
PC LOAD JPG
 
@rightføld Isn't it also a movie, one that is supposedly only exciting in 3D or something?
 
user1804599
3:14 PM
No idea!
 
lol exciting in 3D
 
I never have issues with my printers
 
lol @ album title
 
3D is gimmicks
Oh look at this thing going towards camera that we'd never show if it wasn't 3D because nobody cares
 
@Tony can it print pngs?
 
3:15 PM
@TonyTheLion I ordered a Kyocera printer the other day. Haven't owned a printer in years.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow lol @ original album art
 
Gravity is a 2013 science fiction thriller film directed, co-written, co-produced and co-edited by Alfonso Cuarón. It stars Sandra Bullock and George Clooney as astronauts, and sees them stranded in space after the mid-orbit destruction of their space shuttle and their subsequent attempt to return to Earth. Cuarón wrote the screenplay with his son Jonás and attempted to develop the film at Universal Pictures. The rights were sold to Warner Bros. Pictures, where the project eventually found traction. David Heyman, who previously worked with Cuarón on Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, produced...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are you on the toilet or something? Replying without arrow thingy
2
 
@rightføld The a$$****? :)
 
3:16 PM
Having lunch.
 
Not that you have to answer the question
oh lunch
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow :3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes any clue here? stackoverflow.com/q/27042251/85371 maybe you recognize something in that junk that apparently gets added (?)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh sorry. missed :)
 
in which real-world scenarios do extern templates actually make a difference? As far as I can tell, it's basically only for something that's (1) defined in a header, meaning that it's a candidate for inlining, but which (2) which is expensive enough that the compiler chooses not to inline it, and (3) for which it is feasible to have an explicit instantiation somwhere in some TU. I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario where that'd be useful
 
@sehe looks expected to me.
OP is misusing it.
 
3:23 PM
@FredOverflow <3
-1
A: Functions with different value of default arguments

dziczkaSo the only solution is function overloading. Thank you for answers

Lounge, assemble.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Should I get it, now that I have a 3D TV?
 
Oh. Almost forgot the Stross meeting thing is today. Dammit, I'll have to leave early.
 
thank you lounge
 
I think I screwed something
 
@FredOverflow I preferred it in 2D.
 
3:31 PM
what does it mean to see a decimal number with a subscript? Eg, 1110_2
 
I find 3D in movies quite distracting
Definitely get the movie, though
The single most incredible experience of my life was my first viewing of that
(aside from some actual amazing life experiences from my past that I've since forgotten all about)
 
Nobody is on Lounge<Factorio> :c
 
@corvid Base-2
i.e. it's not "a decimal number" at all
You're looking at 0b1110 or 0xD or 015 or 13, in programmer notation
1110_2 or D_16 or 15_8 or 13[_10], in mathematician notation
 
user1804599
I am.
 
just like KSP, the room will die and we'll just talk about it here.
@jalf Currently, I'm leaning towards just optimizing compile times for common instantiations, e.g. std::vector<int> or something.
 
3:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah! I would not have guessed (I admit not having run over to the docs either)
 
@Puppy yeah, but in which cases would it actually do that? You still have to include vector, and the class template still has to be instantiated so the calling code even knows its layout, yes? Assuming its member functions are not inlined, then sure, you can avoid instantiating those in the calling TU, but they are typically inlined, which means they get instantiated in the calling TU anyway
or am I thinking about it wrong?
 
yes.
 
cool. Enlighten me :D
 
firstly, there's no realistic assumption to say that, in general, template functions will be inlined.
maybe std::vector will, but presumably there are a great many templates whose logic is non-trivial and would never be inlined.
 
@Puppy that assumption is the justification for most of the STL
 
3:41 PM
bullshit.
or rather.
 
when we say that a vector has zero overhead, that is because we assume the compiler is going to inline the shit out of it
 
that may have been the justification at one time, but I seriously doubt that all my code not on a hot path is going to give a shit whether or not the function was inlined.
 
@sehe I haven't used Boost.Locale much, but ICU has an API for searching that is distinct from the collators.
 
std::vector<T> is superior because of the type safety it grants, not because of any hypothetical performance benefit about which most code most people write will never care.
 
3:43 PM
But yeah, transform is useless for search as it provides the wrong guarantees.
 
and secondly
 
@Puppy that's an orthogonal issue. Whether or not you most of your code would be hurt by the compiler not inlining std::vector doesn't change the fact that we tell people to go ahead and use std::vector in performance-critical code because it doesn't carry a performance cost, because we know it's going to get inlined
 
the STL is hardly the only example of template classes, ever.
 
@Puppy true
 
3:44 PM
there will be innumerable examples of template classes where the caller or callee are too complex to inline.
 
"But rather than running away in fear, the determined dog" was chained up, you fucking retard
 
Sounds like you're agreeing with my initial assessment then: extern template is primarily useful for any function template which is complex enough to not get inlined, and which is instantiated very frequently for the same bounded set of types
 
it's this part I'm disagreeing with
> they are typically inlined
 
they are typically candidates for inlining, I think is the point
since they usually have completely visible definitions at the point of use
 
@Puppy sure, that depends on the code base, of course.
 
3:46 PM
sure, many won't be inlined because it won't make sense to inline them, but a vastly increased proportion will be when compared to non-template functions.
 
For much of the standard library, that is the case, though
 
of course I'm talking to people only one of whom I can see and neither of whom can see me so perhaps this is pointless
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit makes sense. Is it already in binary if it is in base 2? Probably an incredibly dumb question
 
it's also the case that people who give a shit about performance use LTO, so the linker can inline the function later even if the compiler can't inline it the first time around.
 
@Puppy What's that got to do with anything though?
 
3:49 PM
I'm saying that even if you're std::vector, you don't lose inlining just by extern templating some common instantiations.
 
I'm not saying zomg we should inline everything because it's faster. I'm saying that for any code that ends up being inlined, extern templates seem like they can't really be used to speed up compile time
 
so they don't have to be instantiated in the calling TU.
 
@sehe Also, lol, blast from the past:
Those rules are not there. The standard collation for Spanish locales distinguishes accents. Under those rules, "rábano" does not contain "aba". What you want are your rules, so you have to write them yourself. A lazy implementation would start by decomposing the string (normalize to form D) and then removing all non-starter characters. That's too blunt, but works for your examples with Spanish. For other languages you'll need to be more selective on which non-starters to drop. — R. Martinho Fernandes Sep 26 '13 at 10:21
 
they can be inlined by the linker later using the body from the defining TU.
 
@Puppy but can't they also be inlined by the compiler, since <vector> is still being included?
 
3:51 PM
could be, but the compiler could certainly choose not to, given that it's externed and the linker can do it later by not instantiating it every single TU.
 
and if the compiler is going to inline it anyway, what compile speedup did you gain by the extern declaration?
 
well, the compiler knows if it's externed or not, so the compiler can make the right choice and leave it to the linker if possible and not instantiate it.
 
In exchange for faster compilation, you make linking slower, which is a bottleneck in incremental builds.
 
yeah, so the compilation speedup is dependent on the compiler not inlining code that it is able to inline (either because of a heuristic which says "it's extern, so the user probably doesn't want me to inline it when I otherwise would and could", or because it's big and complex enough that inlining isn't worth it)"
 
well, yes, as with any other feature, it's useless if the implementation doesn't put any support into it
 
3:54 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes if you enable LTO, you mean?
 
@jalf Well, if you don't you get no inlining at all.
 
which would be fine for most incremental builds, I think
after all, you're only not-inlining into the one or two TUs you've built.
 
Also interesting, in traditional Spanish, "uno charo" does not contain "har" (all Latin characters, no tricks up the sleeve).
 
@corvid erm, what?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What's preventing the compiler from inlining though? I can't just extern template std::vector, I still need to include the header, meaning that the compiler has all it needs if it wants to inline. Or am I missing something?
 
3:58 PM
@jalf Oh, I was assuming the heuristic you mentioned.
 
oh right
 
And I'm not thinking straight today anyway, so don't take anything I say too seriously.
 
ok, so it does rely on the compiler taking it as a hint to refrain from inlining, I guess
(or on using it on functions that are hueg enough that the compiler would have never inlined it in the first place, of course)
 
between those two situations, I think that many bases are covered.
 
user3010322
Robot, the link to the issue tracker on ogonek is dead
 
user3010322
4:01 PM
Is there anywhere else I can grab it?
 
Ell
does anybody want a OnePlus One invite?
 
lol no
 
Ell
@Puppy hey it's an awesome phone.
 
uh huh
 
4:04 PM
No memory card slot.
 
when Gmail was in closed beta and you could only get in by invite, and I had some invites, people were begging me to invite them.
 
1
Q: What movie is this scene with a snake, rocket and toilet from?

hscholotterSo I just saw this online and nobody knows from which amazing movie this is. http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/avZ6N0q_460sv_v1.mp4 Andybody?

mates. watch the youtube. it's fucking mint
 
I was not asking other Random Internet Strangers(tm) if they wanted them
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Now second hit for "snake toilet movie".
 
Ell
@Puppy I was just asking if someone in the lounge wanted it before I give it to someone else :3
 
user3010322
4:06 PM
So I'm at about the same place as far as the encoding and decoding bits go, minus the actually useful bits of normalization and segmentation...
 
user3010322
For the static information of things like normalization and the like, where would that be placed? As a tag like the usual std::iterator_type_tag on the decoding iterator, or at a higher level, like in the actual text class?
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes fair
but 64Gb is enough for me
esp. at that price
 
Is the battery replaceable?
 
@Ell looks interesting but I have no desire to spend money on a new phone right now. thanks tho
 
OnePlus One iz da flagship killah
or so they say
it looks good tho
for the price that is
 
Ell
4:09 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes errm depends. It's as replaceable as a nexus 7 battery for example
 
I just don't think I could stand up and tell anybody my phone is named "OnePlus One"
 
Ell
ie it's not designed to be replaced but it's not really difficult either
 
might as well just prepend "I'm too stupid to know the answer to "
 
> Many will despise its large form factor, non-removable battery and lack of external storage.
Hey, that's me on three counts!
 
you can't replace the battery? lol
 
4:10 PM
@Puppy My phone is named "Elbereth".
 
that "day-long" battery life won't last 6 months
 
@TheForestAndTheTrees Sadly, that is standard these days :(
 
Ell
@TheForestAndTheTrees I can :3
it's not hard
just a few screws and stickers
 
Where do you buy one?
 
@Ell That doesn't void the warranty?
 
Ell
4:11 PM
@TheForestAndTheTrees No idea
 
the battery on the OnePlus is not replaceable
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes the website
 
I do not see that as a bad thing
 
Ell
oneplus.net
idk
hey, thousands of people have iPhones which don't have removeable storage or batteries
 
appeal to authority.
 
4:12 PM
@Ell Wait what?
 
there are thousands of people murdering innocent civilians in the name of Islamic State too.
 
my HTC One doesn't have replaceable battery but I don't care because I'll buy a new phone next year lol
 
I ain't gonna join them
 
Ell
@Puppy how?
I'm just saying not having removeable stuff isn't a problem for a lot of people
@R.MartinhoFernandes oneplus.net/uk
people probably sell them on amazon and ebay too
 
so you're basically implying that it should not be a problem for us, because it's not a problem for them.
which directly implies that we should just accept whatever they do as what we should do.
which is using them as an authority.
do as they do because they're Thousands Of People(tm)
 
4:14 PM
@Ell How does that even work?
 
Ell
@Puppy I'm not implying that. I'm saying just because it's a problem for you it doesn't make it a bad phone
 
It's not removable, but they sell it?
 
don't have a problem with what they don't have a problem with, it's Thousands Of People(tm).
 
@TonyTheLion accurately portraying the difference in temperaments, I'd say
 
Ell
Ohhh the battery
sorry :p
I thought you meant the phone
 
4:15 PM
Yeah, so if you remove the battery with whatever warranty-voiding trickery, what do you put in its place?
 
presumably the source phone is broken.
like donating organs.
 
@AlexM. not all of us can afford a new phone each year to rpelace a battery
 
2 years should be okay for most people, since contracts usually last that long
and you can get phones really cheap with new contracts or prolonged contracts
 
@Puppy Ugh, yeah, getting a replacement used battery doesn't sound enticing.
 
Ell
they probably jsut charge you to get it replaced
 
4:19 PM
@Ell Then what's the point of whatever procedure you were considering here?
If you can't obtain a replacement battery, it's hardly replaceable.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, yeah, I isn't that stackoverflow.com/a/26206078/85371 ?
 
@sehe That's still not search.
It's a square peg meet round hole scenario.
Collation is for sorting.
 
#define PII pair < int , int >
#define MP make_pair
#define PB push_back
#define F first
#define S second
#define LL long long
ugh
 
user3010322
Find the person who wrote that code and punch them in the mouth.
 
@ThePhD inb4 speedcoding contests
 
4:25 PM
#define YOU idiot
 
#define U idiot FTFY
 
abbr PII pair < int , int >
abbr MP make_pair
abbr PB push_back
abbr F first
abbr S second
abbr LL long long
@sehe Fixed.
All of the typing speed, none of the dumbassery.
 
I'd make it expand to pair<int,int> so that df<Space> or ciW DoWhatYouMean(TM)
 
personally I prefer drum&bassery
 
But, eh, I don't use any abbreviations
 
4:26 PM
@sehe nah, it's just one guy's solution to some problem on a topcoder-like site
 
@AlexM. That's what I said. Same audience
 
Nov 16 '11 at 19:48, by R. Martinho Fernandes
:abbr tempalte template There fixed for me.
 
I do have 1 abbrev. Indeed. cabbr amk mak
Nov 16 '11 at 19:49, by FredOverflow
:abbr ev iate
nice
 
trying to see solutions like these to figure out what they're trying to achieve is pointless
ok, time to change the tactic
 
@AlexM. .,$!cpp -P -CC
 
4:30 PM
I'm essentially trying to figure out how to use a binary indexed tree (or at least an interval tree) to solve the box stacking problem (a box can stack on another if its width and length are less than that below it)
the dynamic programming approach (O(n^2)) is too slow
using something like a binary indexed tree gets it to n log n
which is also the optimal solution in this case
I'm too sleepy now, I'll try again tomorrow
have to go home in 1.5 hrs anyway
 
@sehe If you want to see the vomit-inducing extreme to which this crap can be carried, take a look at the source code to ValLink some time. Enough to convince anybody that this crap is a horrible idea.
@AlexM. Sorry, but I have to disagree. This is definitely a problem in itself, not a solution.
 
lol
 
@AlexM. Sounds like something that @TemplateRex was after before (chat.stackoverflow.com/messages/19973651/history and further)
 
4:46 PM
@sehe I'll take a look, thanks
 
@AlexM. it's actually more interesting for TRex
 
in a proof, if something is written as 18c - 2, by the quotient remainder theorem, can it be written as 18c + 16 equivilently?
 
5:08 PM
What.
@corvid You need a different c.
18c - 2 = 18c + 16 would imply 0 = 18.
 
> the flags are unused and should be set to 0
Why is it the first parameter if I have to set it to 0?
 
Nope. SDL.
 
could it be that they were not always unused?
 
SDL2 was API breaking though.
I figured they would just remove the parameter.
 
5:15 PM
Forward compatibility probably
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, but for that it should be the last parameter then.
 
It is SDL
 
It's a lot less awkward.
@CatPlusPlus :)
 
user3010322
Anyone know how to maike it so I can pass a variable to ninja?
 
attach it to a shuriken
 
5:17 PM
Pass what where
 
and throw it
 
pass what
 
user3010322
Through the command line, maybe? Or just by using a different target or something
 
user3010322
I mean right now I'm doing just ninja
 
user3010322
and then it runs the default rule
 
user3010322
5:17 PM
I'd like to do ninja debug or something
 
Generate a different config
 
make a different target?
 
I just generate a debug script.
 
I pass --debug to my generator
 
Yeah, same.
 
5:25 PM
Only one active config at a time?
 
you can make it a different target
since you can shadow variables for the rules in build
 
All my targets are in the generator to begin with and are always output, no command line switches. Which is why I’m curious.
 
I don't have a good reason for it.
Just a habit. Easy to change though.
 
@Rapptz My generators aren’t intended as command-line utilities though. Any change of functionality is done by editing the script. Maybe we differ here?
 
My generator is a python script
I use optparse/argparse for the CLI if I want user input
similar to ./configure
 
5:35 PM
As do I, but it’s for passing the minimal stuff like choice of compiler or extra compiler flags tops. No changing the number or kind of targets.
 
-g is an extra compiler flag! :P
 
that results in lots of pain when trying to compile with Clang, what with flags incompatibility.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That does not a debug build make.
 
Just joking.
 
5:38 PM
I know. For the benefits of everyone else though.
@Rapptz Haha I like the GCC hardcoding. I kinda do the same, except that I’m (overly) optimistic in letting Clang a pass.
oo I’m misreading that, you’re doing compiler-specific config
 
compiler specific things be damned
 
damnations specifically be compiled
 
:p
> TIL Bender's apartment number 00100100 is a binary representation of the ASCII character "$".
I'm surprised I never caught on to this
 
I tend to go 'haha, that’s funny' when I notice binary like that. I assume it’s a meaningful gag, but I don’t actually verify.
 
5:46 PM
What about when some fictional character lives in apartment 40?
 
That’s not funny at all.
 
It's the same 'joke' :<
 
With no quirkiness!
So
When's the next game jam?
Preferably without the Curse of the Bartek
 
user3010322
Are non-public things allowed to be used? .-.
 
..?
 

« first day (1496 days earlier)      last day (3453 days later) »