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6:00 PM
you can probably branch out from C++ until you get to, dunno, the universe
 
user1804599
@BhawinParkeria you don't
 
@rightføld , why not
 
If you want a job in C++, people don't care so much how much you know about it, they want to see what you've made and how well it works
 
user1804599
well, you do
 
user1804599
because the only job that's nice in those companies pays very well (CEO)
 
6:01 PM
haha C++ jobs rip
 
but sometimes , people who have made nothing also get jobs in c++
 
@BhawinParkeria and they're damn lucky if they do, and the hiring manager is probably stupid
 
user1804599
@BhawinParkeria they have made one thing: it through school
 
unless they've programmed in another language
 
so u mean to say every employee in google has made something before getting into google
 
user1804599
6:03 PM
> u
 
user1804599
The only "u" I know is the "u" in "plonk."
 
@BhawinParkeria yes, google is a heaven for programmers
only the most elite programmers get there
 
user1804599
*kuch* mysticial *kuch*
 
Mysticial had to break a world record for it
honest!
and when he got there, guess what?
 
user1804599
He had to work on something boring and silly?
 
6:05 PM
"Yeah, you broke the world record for Pi's digits calculation... meh, I guess you'd be okay in the Android division, write some Java there."
of course I am speculating
 
user1804599
in C#, 46 secs ago, by JoJo
Do you mean import a library into the project @rightføld
 
user1804599
No I mean you should shove it up your butt.
 
: D
 
You start to really rethink the keyboard as a necessity in computing when it is a $100+ option on Surface Pro and Nexus 9
WTF
 
6:11 PM
weird
 
@nightcracker now I'm off the phone, here's a cleaner implementation of std::make_integer_sequence and std::integer_sequence; paste @ coliru. but you should probably look for an implementation that does it in log n (there are many out there)
 
I started rethinking the Surface Pro and Nexus 9 as necessities when the keyboard is an $100+ option on them
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Says the guy in the so-called "Keyboard cult" who created his own keyboard because he didn't like the existing ones
WTF
 
:V
@ScottOffen I'm trying to help you to make your question up to the standards defined by this community, which greatly improves chances of getting good answers. I'm not sure if I'm likely to answer your question yet, because I find it unclear. Of course, as I've mentioned - maybe it's just me. And please skip ad personam - this is a site for professionals, not children. — BartoszKP 28 secs ago
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lol, keyboards that cost more than €30.
 
6:13 PM
the daily wtf - Advanced Time Management <- how to sync your computer's clock
5
 
@milleniumbug And gosh, does it suck.
 
yeah
 
> No. My analogy is accurate. You just disagree with it.
 
he sounded reasonable at first :v
lol, he deleted the question
:|
this doesn't even seem logical from his flawed point of view
 
user1804599
6:17 PM
Time to poop!
 
> Dislikes the idea that "just use [insert pre-packaged solution here]" is an acceptable answer to any question asked.
lol and 'don't reinvent the wheel' in the same block of text
gj
OH MY GOD NEW CHAT VERSION HAS EDIT LINK IN THE STUPID FLOOD CONTROL MESSAGE
 
wat
 
@CatPlusPlus I saw PHP and stopped reading ;v
 
I really need to write my own IM client
IT IS TIME
 
@CatPlusPlus Where that?
 
6:28 PM
 
The feature we all needed
 
sorry for disturbing u c++ guys
 
I don't know why I bother, but let's check [meta-se-tag:chat]
se-meta? Who knows
Probably doesn't work at all
 
but can anyone tell me computer hardware as a career choice
i want to make computers sexy
 
6:31 PM
> Add support for .gifv format in chat onebox
This will probably get implemented before uneditable audits will
 
user1804599
I don't think for (;;) vs while (true) makes a difference to anyone.
 
@FredOverflow cool
 
6:46 PM
woot, finally home
thinking about taking down my website
it's just a plain splashscreen
and there's a dead link on it already
can't say it helps much, just money spent for nothing
 
My internet is slow this week
Suuuuuper slow.
 
I was on a conference when a guy showed that they've found a bug in cmath implementation on one of current linux c++ implementations (don't remember which one): sin(-2.437592) is wrong, for other arguments it seems to work fine ;D
I don't even want to know how do you find such a bug :e
 
Of course it's wrong.
 
'Nested ifs of the Month' entry:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26615217/little-elephant-and-interval
 
@MartinJames :DDDDD
> Although the code looks like some stupid things,I want to know where I am wrong.
so close to self-answering ;0
 
6:51 PM
@BartoszKP Fuzzing or hitting it in production
One of those is very Not Fun
 
He means fuzzing.
 
Yeah, I mean I don't even want to think about it
 
Software is bad
 
Well, wolfram is taking too long. I guess the number is somewhat long, so I'll go ahead and say that sin(-2.437592) is not representable in a floating point type.
Which means that, being that it's not representable, it's obviously wrong.
 
No
If it wasn't representable then it'd be correct for nearest value
 
6:54 PM
OMG that page just took 5 minutes to load. WTF.
 
Also it is
 
it's obvious that most of them are not representable, so "wrong" is understood in terms of approximation
lolololol
The relevant line from pastebin: int primedPanel = rn1_6.Next(1, 7);Henk Holterman 40 secs ago
 
Calculator gives :-0.6472723922985903485915307898418
 
If it was just a deviation due to approximation then it'd probably go unnoticed
 
user1804599
Henk
 
6:56 PM
If it's called a bug then it's probably a totally spurious value!
 
he was shot
 
after a guy posted two walls of code and asks why they give different results :D
 
Wolfram says
So yeah, I doubt it's representable with a float or a double
 
irrelevant :V
 
4 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Also it is
Not to this message
 
7:00 PM
@Jefffrey the fact in relation to what message you think this is relevant is also irrelevant :v
 
You are irrelevant.
 
That's irrelevant.
 
user1804599
Inductors are irrelevant.
 
@FilipRoséen-refp thanks - public domain so I can reuse?
@FilipRoséen-refp also about the log n implementation, what technique do they use for that?
@Jeffrey by your logic pi isn't representable in float
 
@nightcracker Not without approximation, no.
Otherwise by that definition, every real number is representable in a float.
 
user1804599
7:05 PM
You can exactly represent π in a float.
 
user1804599
Just use base π instead of base 2.
 
@Jefffrey hint: representing something in IEEE754 float means taking all possible bit patterns of the float, interpreting them as IEEE754, laying those points on the number line and selecting the one closest to the number you're representing
 
lol, is this question serious??
0
Q: c++ cout instead of fstream

Mitja S.Normally I live in my guarded world of C#. But sometimes I have to break out and do something outside. At the moment I have to decode an audiostream and have to output this directly in my c++ console application. If I write the content into a file, I can hear the correct result. But if I use in...

 
@nightcracker That doesn't go against what I said.
3 mins ago, by Jefffrey
@nightcracker Not without approximation, no.
 
the approximation is implied with floating point
 
7:07 PM
So?
 
@rightføld nope :(
 
@nightcracker Still doesn't go against my point.
 
So sin(-2.437592) is representable in floating point type
just not exactly
 
lol
 
stupid money being tight, going to miss out on that Humble Book Bundle
 
7:08 PM
What definition of "representable" are you using?
 
the one I just fucking gave you
 
It's terrible. HTH
 
@StackedCrooked Is it in Russian or English? :)
 
@nightcracker sure, no problem
 
@nightcracker That is documented. If you provide no arguments then the string is interpreted as a raw one. I forgot the allocator, easy fix.
 
7:10 PM
Russian.
 
@Rapptz while I don't agree with that design decision - it remains one you can make, so I guess that's valid
 
@nightcracker So you say that 0.1, for example, is representable in a floating point format?
 
it's just a bit weird that fprint("|0| |1|", 1); is an error, but fprint("|0| |1|"); is fine
@Jefffrey yes, it's just not exact
 
To get the other behaviour (i.e. it throws) then I would just have to remove the null case.
 
Wikipedia seems to disagree with your definition of "representable". Just like I do.
> For example, the decimal number 0.1 is not representable in binary floating-point of any finite precision;
 
7:12 PM
use a rational number class :v
 
;9
 
I have a constexpr rational somewhere.
 
A short int would do if you don't mind -2 as the result.
 
Man found dead (in 2008) with his head severed, not suspicious at all.
 
7:17 PM
@MartinJames problem with short ints, they keep trying to act like the big man.
 
Yummy
 
consul01# start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --pidfile test.pid --user consul --exec /usr/local/bin/consul --test --oknodo; echo $?
0
consul01# start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --pidfile test.pid --user consul --exec /usr/local/bin/consul --test; echo $?
0
consul01# ps aux | grep consul
consul01# start-stop-daemon --stop --quiet --pidfile test.pid --user consul --exec /usr/local/bin/consul --test; echo $?
1
consul01# start-stop-daemon --stop --quiet --pidfile test.pid --user consul --exec /usr/local/bin/consul --test --oknodo; echo $?
 
@CatPlusPlus hey hey hey!
 
aaaaa
I hate sysvinit
I hate start-stop-daemon
Please die
 
--pidfile test.pid
lol
 
7:18 PM
I found the strength to finish Eric Niebler’s range proposal. It really upset me.
 
traffic-jam-daemon
 
user1804599
start-stop-hammertime
 
How so?
 
I’m not sure, it feels like I’m coming up with excuses whenever I try to figure out why. Generally speaking, I’m in a state of ‘is that it?’ disbelief.
 
@MartinJames the curse of the phantom raspberry jam?
 
7:21 PM
And I don’t mean the design, but the rationales and explanations.
I don’t know why the proposal would be worth embracing. It has failed to convince me. It’s not so much that I have things to say against it, but I find very little to say for it.
 
What do you guys do for Halloween?
 
‘Very little’ being that if you can put up with it, you can write range adaptors.
 
std::cout << "Hello, Ween!\n";
 
@LucDanton mmm that's bad.
In general it appears that people lend it a lot of credibility
So, I think it's time to find the ammunition against
 
@sehe Relatively speaking of absolutely speaking? Its lack of contenders is glaring.
 
7:27 PM
@LucDanton Well, that's only true in the immediate sense. After all, we've had Boost Range for years and a small plethora of contenders a years or 2 back
 
For ranges we should just define a concept in which any type that has std::begin and std::end working correctly (they return iterators... bla bla bla) is a range.
 
I've never followed it, but there has been very intense debates - and even a sort of fatalism ("It can't ever work, see: this sucks too") about it, AFAIR
 
@sehe The looming concern to me is that the momentum behind ranges is to make it more engaging and less-error prone to write code (adaptor, algorithms and client-code)—but looking at the result I don’t see it.
 
@LucDanton So, perhaps that's what's required. A list of things that are negating the usability in practice...
I wouldn't know because I certainly haven't read it all (nor would I be qualified to spot the weaknesses, I fear)
 
@sehe Boost.Range does very little though and with very glaring problems (e.g. fundamental stuff such as filtering and mapping/transforming is bonkers).
 
7:30 PM
Mmm. Is this something I would understand from reading the proposal?
 
The Boost.Range stuff?
 
Today I Learned: if MSVC gives a error C4308 toplevel error, this might well indicate a BOOST_STATIC_WARNING was triggered in a template instantiation. — sehe just now
@LucDanton Uhoh. No. I somehow missed the crossroads to Boost Range. Sorry
 
@sehe I do think that the proposal has suffered from being stuck in a world of specialist for a little bit loo long actually. A fresh view could be beneficial.
 
@LucDanton Perhaps. That does strike me from his heralded "Customization Points" innovation. I can see he's been working towards this hybrid approach for years, but to anyone outside his bubble I hope it would seem like a gigantic library kludge against the language.
So, maybe I should approach this Range proposal with a noob's mind and see whether I baulk
I've been hesitant because of the Concepts stuff that's mixed in. I hardly have working c++14 support on my boxes
 
@sehe Mmmh that’s a less error-prone ADL. As an alternative to the current error-prone ADL we use.
Or is there another innovation I’m not aware of?
 
7:36 PM
@LucDanton Yeah, I know. I loved his idea of using constexpr file-static function objects to dodge ADL (this is the seminal idea that enabled this new paradigm, and precedes it by at least a year to two years), but this extension looked... Well, there should be a more direct way to tell the compiler how we intend names to be used.
 
I didn't like his Customisation Points blog post at all lol
It was very boilerplate-y.
 
Precisely. My gut says it's overblown.
 
I’m really sympathetic to the idea because it’s very, very taxing to always be on guard and always qualify calls.
 
I'd rather get a core language mechanism to define ADL-immune symbols - if you will, which would at the same time give the compile much more of a chance to "see through" all the red tape and still generate optimal code
 
Still not sure whether to like or dislike ADL.
 
7:39 PM
@Rapptz How do you feel about operator overloading?
 
I guess the issue isn't inherently unique to C++ though.
I don't mind operator overloading.
 
@LucDanton I wondered, recently. He states "If you see a qualified std:swap somewhere in a library codebase, you've found a bug". The inverse seems to apply to operator&. I'd say "if you see operator& applied to a UDT in a library code-base, you have found a bug" (it should be std::addressof<>)
 
Not seeing it.
 
Yeah, std::addressof has been bugging me for a while, too. I really don’t want to use it (as a generic replacement for &).
 
Oh. Unary operator&.
 
7:41 PM
Yup
I'm going to put someone in bed. Be back later
 
@Rapptz Righto. It hooks into modules, too!
 
operator& vs std::addressof rarely comes up for me.
I don't often take the address of something.
I actually haven't seen people overload operator&.
People keep bringing up ComPtr but if I'm taking the address of something it's not going to be a 'smart pointer'.
 
‘Not a smart pointer’ is not a requirement I use in generic code.
 
Well I rarely take the address of something.
 
@Rapptz It comes up for operator->.
 
7:45 PM
When I do need a pointer, it's typically polymorphism or a specific type that I know of.
 
@Rapptz How do you model association? std::reference_wrapper<T> as a member?
 
@LucDanton How?
 
@Rapptz Needs to return a pointer.
 
Oh you meant defining it.
 
(I grepped for addressof and I’m seeing it pop up there.)
 
7:46 PM
Hi
 
That and union/variant members. Which I only really do for literal optional though.
 
I only use addressof for optional/maybe.
 
You never have a class that needs to talk to another class object during its lifetime?
 
@thecoshman Not in 'murica they don't.
 
@LucDanton Like I said, in those cases I know exactly what type I'm using and it doesn't overload operator&.
 
7:51 PM
Coincidentally, ranges is where I’ve used association in a generic context the most.
 
So has @ZeeZeeZee figured out an Avatar yet?
I need to know, since he turned down my suggestion of using a dropbear as one.
 
@Nooble I'm sure I'll think of one eventually...
 
@thecoshman ?
 
I found one case where I should probably use addressof.
 
ah! LASER!
 
7:52 PM
@Rapptz Also, you hadn’t said that!
 
but I didn't
 
suck it yankie
 
the rest of my grep for &\w[\w\d]* seems to be sane.
 
@Nooble and abbreviation that cheats in extra words
 
fixes
 
7:53 PM
@thecoshman I was being sarcastic. U.S.A counts.
It cheats in an "of"
 
not really a fan of including all of <memory> just for std::addressof either :v
 
You can write your own.
 
OSX is such a painful platform to develop OpenGL on. It only has specific contexts and has no backwards compat profile.
 
@Rapptz Doesn’t your Lua code generically take stuff to pass to the C API?
 
yeah
std::addressof is used there
 
7:56 PM
Anyway, "I don’t take pointers often" is all relative. How often do you think I do it?
Correctness is not a matter of frequency.
 
I'm not arguing for its correctness.
 
@Rapptz Oh, by writing your own you can have a quasi-constexpr one, too!
 
I actually have my own
 
Which, of course, is the pinnacle of silliness.
 
    T* data() {
        return std::addressof(MaybeBase<T>::storage.value);
    }

    constexpr const T* data() const {
        return detail::address_of(MaybeBase<T>::storage.value);
    }
:v
 
7:58 PM
What’s up with bringing up <memory> then?
 
for a different snippet
 

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