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6:00 PM
I can't even get monodevelop to use intellisense properly
I need that thing
 
You suck
 
I don't even understand how they managed to screw this up, but it's annoying
 
@AlexM. For what, anyways? For C#? See Vim
@AlexM. Did you implement it before?
 
no, but enough IDEs don't have that problem
I haven't seen an IDE that starts intellisense when you type in variable names
(and if you dare to press ";" it overwrites what you were writing with what was selected in intellisense, unless you explicitly hide it)
I'll just use Eclipse for C++
what can go wrong
 
Not much
 
6:11 PM
I bet Eclipse even has a wizard for unit test projects
and a nice GUI for them
 
I think so. But quite likely not for C++
 
VS has a wizard for C++ unit tests :(
I have been tainted by VS's wizards and intellisense that works
it doesn't help that I suck at Linux either
 
lol C++ tooling
lol
 
I wrote down "sudo apt-get install jdk" and it took me 6 seconds to realize the stupidness of what I wrote
 
@gnzlbg I was picking at signature specification
@AlexM. yeah, jk
 
6:17 PM
TIL about open jdk though
sudo apt-get install openjdk-7-jdk
 
@AlexM. Yeah apt-get is p stupid
 
Wait. What. You want to serialize a mutex and a condition variable? To put it bluntly: You officially have no clue what you're doing. I don't think I need to bother showing how to serialize the std::queue container adaptor. — sehe 15 secs ago
@AlexM. apt-get source openjdk-7-jdk --compile
 
is there a reason to compile from source?
whoa, vmware player's unity mode is awesome
 
pebbles diluted by some fiery goggle druids are Timbuktu
@AlexM. no. except, you'll have more than 6 seconds to realize your folly
 
oh
 
6:27 PM
@sehe Seems about as sensible as anything about "vmware" being "awesome". :-)
 
--compile makes a .deb rather actually compiling it
 
user1804599
@AlexM. y u no JDK 8.
 
I dunno I just installed what an answer on SO said
Eclipse runs
so it must have been good
 
user1804599
ewclipse
 
user1804599
u usck
 
6:29 PM
brief explanation on scoped allocators by Jonathan Wakely
 
@AlexM. It breaks in funny ways for windows that are supposed to be invisible
 
Bartosz Milewski is doing few talks in Italy, recently
Next one: "Seeing monads in C++"
 
@JerryCoffin Precisely.
 
Who would have guessed.
 
@TemplateRex Nicely explained.
 
6:39 PM
@Rapptz ya, he's generally pretty awesome
 
@CatPlusPlus it didn't let me see the linux desktop anymore so I turned it off :(
 
user1804599
nice
 
lol
 
6:42 PM
don't proposition Kazach women
 
> The scrollbar is massively suppressed in OS X and iOS already. It's not even visible most of the time. So to argue that the scrollbar, in a world of infinite content (can you get to the end of the Internet?) is this hugely massively important bit of UI, just doesn't make sense to me. If it's so important, why would Apple go so far to suppress it?
jeff in osx land
 
lol
if apple does it, it has to be right
 
of course apple is the bestest at ui
 
user1804599
If you want to make scrollbar visible you can enable that.
 
user1804599
Jeff is a faggot.
 
6:52 PM
what is he on about?
scrollbar exists in osx
 
In the context of infinite scrolling being a broken idiotic non-feature that breaks scrollbars
 
it's automatically suppressed if you have 2 finger swipe instead
which... makes sense
 
Someone else from their team suggested that they might replace the scrollbar to fix it :lol:
Scrollbar should always be visible, that mobile nonsense of hiding it is dumb as fuck
 
not it shouldn't
 
But that's a different thing
It's a position indicator, of course it should
 
6:55 PM
It appears when you are scrolling, in order to be an indicator.
It gets out of the way when you are standing still for a while
 
Knowing your position is useful not only when you're scrolling
 
You can now your position by slightly scrolling up or down
it's a non issue
 
v0v
 
Don't be a bad apple, read the cheerful rules!
18
 
6:58 PM
Something tells me that if apple decided to always show the scrollbar, you would still have something against it.
 
Discobug
noun
A bug that won't be fixed because the user is Doing It Wrong™
 
No, but they wouldn't, because they're terrible at UI
 
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
I'm amazed jeff doesn't work for apple
 
6:59 PM
rule #1
 
maybe he'll apply for an UI/UX internship at Apple
 
i'm out
 
oh man g++ compiles my project just fine, but eclipse insists that "Symbol shared_ptr could not be resolved"
this is software doesn't work day
 
except for gcc then
 
yeah that one works
I was even able to set the c++1y flag
I thought only clang had that so far
but I'm well behind news
 
7:02 PM
4.9+ support subsets of C++14
 
@AlexM. Hint: Eclipse doesn't use the compiler
 
@Rapptz I'm using 4.8.2
or so gcc -v says
 
Jesus christ if I'm not in the project to keep formatting sane it just turns into shit
 
> G++ now supports a -std=c++1y option for experimentation with features proposed for the next revision of the standard, expected around 2014. Currently the only difference from -std=c++11 is support for return type deduction in normal functions, as proposed in N3386. Status of C++1y features in GCC 4.8 can be found here.
I did not know this
 
7:06 PM
@CatPlusPlus yeah, found a solution
yay I can start coding now
inb4 something else breaks
 
I'm going to make a code review thing for internal use
god I need it so much
 
user1804599
hmm 8chan is cool
 
this one makes me laugh all the times
 
@Rapptz There are a few other changes in C++14 (which is now finished, barring some eleventh hour reversal by the ISO to reject what they already accepted).
 
I know that.
 
7:09 PM
Or did you mean, "I didn't know that was already supported by g++"?
 
I didn't know GCC 4.8 had some support for C++14.
Thought it was only GCC 4.9.
 
user1804599
It supports most C++14 features.
 
@Rapptz Ah, fair enough--as soon as I noticed who was posting, I figured my original reply was stuff you probably already knew.
 
user1804599
Just not most C++14-specific features. :p
 
@rightføld Yup--although Herb likes to exaggerate it, most compilers (the primary exception being VC++) will probably support most of C++14 by the time it's officially approved.
 
7:12 PM
@JerryCoffin i seriously doubt that gcc will support constexpr anytime soon
 
@TemplateRex Do you mean "support any constexpr at all", or "fully support C++11 constexpr", or "support C++14 relaxed constexpr"?
 
aaaaa whole module that's a one-line 70kB JSON as a string and 'loads(raw_json)'
 
C++14 supports relaxed atomics therefore it supports relaxed constexpr
First order logic, really.
 
C++14 is already approved is it not?
 
@JerryCoffin C++14 relaxed constexpr, aka the real deal
 
7:15 PM
@Rapptz Been two months!
 
@Rapptz yes, it's in FDIS state
 
Oh right. The ISO paper hasn't been published.
I guess that's what Jerry meant
 
@Rapptz It's approved by the committee, but hasn't been given the final rubber stamp by the full ISO.
@TemplateRex In that case I agree, full relaxed constexpr will probably take a while. If memory serves, 4.9 already allows a little more than C++11 required though (but I'd have to check to be sure).
 
ok, now that I switched to Firefox I can see the colored characters people here were talking about
hearts are red
and check marks are probably green
 
@JerryCoffin maybe they allow void
 
7:18 PM
Chrome wasn't coloring them
 
@TemplateRex I’m assuming it’s a WIP and/or a side-effect of current dev because it’s not advertised IIRC.
 
ah, made offer on house.
 
@LucDanton according to this they are working on variable templates
 
just a little bit nervouse.
 
haven't closely monitored any mailing lists
Clang otoh, is working on Modules lately
 
7:21 PM
they list 'working on' as 'WIP'
 
There’s minimal support for them (i.e. it works in simple cases).
 
iirc
 
@Rapptz WIP means "work in progress", so that seems to make sense...
 
@Rapptz One way or the other, it doesn’t take too much to run into issues with variable templates so it’s not up to par with the rest.
 
won't disagree there
 
7:24 PM
the weird thing with C++14 relaxed constexpr, is the total absence of any library functions taking advantage of it
literally none of them uses it
 
Well they aren’t going to sprout from thin air. Pull requests welcome.
 
whereas almost the entire <algorithm> header could be made constexpr, same for all the non-allocating classes like array, complex, bitset, tuple pair etc.
 
no for the painfully slow wait :S
 
I need some chocolate
 
std::tuple is already constexpr
and std::tuple supports allocators
so I'm not sure how that mixes in with constexpr
and I think allowing constexpr algorithm might disallow implimentation specific optimisations
 
7:27 PM
@LucDanton that's the worst part: they actually need proposals because library implementors are forbidden from experimenting with it and adding constexpr (in contrast to noexcept, which they are allowed to add)
 
You need proposals for anything and everything.
 
@Rapptz I went through a few algorithms, (equal, lexicographical_compare, fill, swap_ranges) and only calling std::memset is a possible optimization that couldn't be made
and even that is solvable by marking memset itself as constexpr
@LucDanton not for adding noexcept, it's library implementors freedom
 
I think that's stupid
adding noexcept would cause random std::terminate
why would they give you that freedom?
 
@Rapptz if you implement it so that it can't throw, then noexcept is safe
@sehe scoped allocator part starting at 50:00 in Part II
 
How can you observe a non-conforming constexpr?
 
7:31 PM
@Jefffrey as futile as it seems now, you can vote
 
@TemplateRex Not my point. According to your wording I can add noexcept to std::getline and that's well within my freedom.
 
@LucDanton I don't know, Alisdair Meredith in his COmmitttee CppCon talk explained that there were some very convoluted examples conjured up by Committee members
 
@thecoshman I'm intentionally waiting. I'm not sure yet.
 
@Rapptz but then you n eed to honor that contract of course
 
@Jefffrey you may as well get it over with.
 
7:33 PM
@thecoshman Now the we are basically at the end of this game, do you think we should have gone faster at the beginning?
 
@Rapptz just compare [res.on.exception.handling] with [constexpr.functions]
in N4140
 
shame we didn't get in some rule that allows players to be kicked out. One player suggest it should be done, others have a week to veto. Just need one person to do so, and that player stays in.
@Jefffrey I think we went as fast as we could. We never said we would sit down and play it live. Maybe some players tried to make it more drawn out than it needed to be.
 
@thecoshman drawn out?
 
But I think we both agree that these rules that mean you have to wait, even though there is no effect but wasted time, are not good.
@Jefffrey like 'dragged out'
 
@Rapptz what do you mean tuple supports allocators? even std:;array<T> supports allocators if T is a std:;vector<int>, but tuple itself doesn't keep an allocator
 
7:35 PM
@Rapptz Point is that if you're sure your implementation of something can't possibly throw, then you can add nothrow and still conform. Even if a function (or whatever) could be used in a constexpr context, you can't add constexpr to a declaration and still conform.
 
@thecoshman That's also why I wanted to remove the "turn" thingy and introduce parallel proposals. Things would probably still going good now.
 
@JerryCoffin Are you going on from what you’ve heard too, or do you know how that works?
 
@Rapptz and that passes an allocator to the various tuple elements, but it doesn't allocate itself
4 mins ago, by TemplateRex
@Rapptz just compare [res.on.exception.handling] with [constexpr.functions]
in N4140
 
So what part of std::tuple can be made constexpr?
 
7:37 PM
I could use detecting constexpr stuff for my IntegralConstant concept.
 
@LucDanton I'm just trying to clarify what (I think) Rex was saying.
 
Alright.
 
Everything else is already constexpr.
 
@TemplateRex No.
 
yo dawg, I put a tuple in your tuple.
 
7:39 PM
@Jefffrey well, you'd still want all players to be voting on things, so you'd quickly get stuck. IMO first rule added should allow for those who still want to be playing to remove those who have stopped interacting with it.
 
@JerryCoffin The question was rhetorical :v
 
Still, it might pick up again :)
 
let's hope
 
@LucDanton what do you mean, no?
This standard explicitly requires that certain standard library functions are constexpr (7.1.5). **An implementation
shall not declare any standard library function signature as constexpr except for those where it
is explicitly required**. Within any header that provides any non-defining declarations of constexpr functions
or constructors an implementation shall provide corresponding definitions.
 
No, I won’t compare.
 
7:41 PM
@Rapptz Fair enough. The thread seems to contain a lot of rhetoric that's not entirely accurate (e.g., the earlier claim that none of the library uses constexpr is clearly false--nearly all of numeric_limits, for one example, do require it).
 
well, cat's still in it at least.
 
fuck me
 
@JerryCoffin they are not using C++14 relaxed constexpr
 
A lot of the C++ standard library was made constexpr and there are a lot of proposals for extending it.
 
data structure class, have to implement polish notation
it's the prefix variant >.<
 
7:41 PM
@JerryCoffin there is no class with a non-const but constexpr member function
 
@TemplateRex Much better (as in: much more accurate--thank you).
 
user1804599
» osascript -l JavaScript -e 'ObjC.import("Ruby"); $.ruby_init(); $.rb_eval_string("puts RUBY_VERSION");'
2.0.0
 
user1804599
I win.
 
@JerryCoffin that's the single-most important thing that C++14 relaxed constexpr enable, and no StdLib functionality makes us of it
all constexpr in the current Standard is C++11 constexpr
 
I'm not a fan of relaxed constexpr if it inhibits optimisations.
Just to give you my stance on the issue.
 
7:44 PM
@Rapptz are you kidding? it enables a whole host of optimizations!
 
user1804599
I'm not a fan. I'm a vacuum cleaner.
2
 
constexpr does not enable optimizations.
 
@TemplateRex What?
 
@LucDanton sure it does, you can precompute e.g. regex DFA tables
 
@TemplateRex How would a constexpr std::copy enable optimisations?
 
7:46 PM
oh god... response on phone... could it be in response to house offer...let's see...
 
@Rapptz you can precompute loads of stuff, think string searching
of course, with TMP (being Turing Complete), you can already do it, but at a huge development cost
 
@TemplateRex Can still do it without the Standard Library.
 
using std::copy is just so convenient when computing compile-time tables
 
@TemplateRex Then ‘enable’ was the wrong word.
 
@LucDanton enable in a practical sense, we could also be programming in C
writing our own virtual tables and whatnot
enable like lambdas enable
could be done before, but now much easier
 
7:48 PM
‘Optimization’ might also have been the wrong word if you go in that direction.
 
> Former EA CEO John Riccitiello becomes new head of Unity
 
well, I can't see why it would ever pessimize anything
 
lol I was expecting something like Google to take over Unity
 
@TemplateRex Why would I want to restrict std::copy to be constexpr which would hinder the compiler from using memcpy or memmove just so I have the ability to 'pre-compute' things?
 
@Rapptz just make memmove memcopy also constexpr, done
 
7:49 PM
@LucDanton "Optimization", "optimum", etc., are so widely abused (nearly always referring to "improved", not necessarily "optimum") in programming that I doubt there's much point discussing that one. As for the first question, I'd nominate "support" instead of "enable".
 
@JerryCoffin Heh, I was just reflecting on that.
 
lol location__id__startswith
i dont even
why
 
@Rapptz I think some D guy with little prior regex experience, entered a regex competition and beat pretty much the rest of the world with a program that precomputed lots of jump tables at compile-time (for matching files against compiletime patterns)
@JerryCoffin good point, I soften my claim to "support" then :-)
 
I still think making the entire stdlib constexpr wouldn't be a good thing.
I'm not sure any standard library implementer would even want that judging from my source diving
 
is... firefox constantly unloading large images and reloading them from cache when you come back to the tab they're in?
 
7:51 PM
Yes.
 
@Rapptz and btw, you wouldn't "restrict" it to be constexpr, you would "allow" it to be constexpr. The whole point is to write one function, not a runtime optimized one and Boost.MPL one to do it at compiletime
 
there must be a setting for this
it feels broken
I come back to old tabs and see them being redrawn
it's like I'm having lag or something
I have enough RAM, please use it Firefox
 
@Rapptz no algorithm does any virtual / dynamic alloc stuff
what is there to lose?
 
@TemplateRex Of course you 'restrict' a function to be constexpr. Not every function can be made constexpr. There are 'restrictions' on what can be constexpr.
 
@Rapptz there are language restrictions, and <algorithm> does not need any virtual stuff or dynamic alloc, so it is exempt from those
 
7:53 PM
@AlexM. "Browser" and "broken" are pretty much synonymous. :-)
Okay, I exaggerate--not all things that are broken are actually browsers.
 
@TemplateRex Fairly sure the heap stuff allocates.
 
@LucDanton well maybe merge_inplace as well
make_heap doesn't
IIRC
stable_sort another exception, but the vast majority of algorithms are in-place, and are also guaranteed in-place, so you won't restrict any implementation
 
@TemplateRex Yes, I believe inplace_merge is allowed to (basically) do an out-of-place merge, then copy the result back to the original location.
 
FWIW if you're so adamant about this just make a proposal.
 
@TemplateRex Right--and no reason it would. Pretty much all you do to build a heap is compares and swaps.
 
7:57 PM
@Rapptz ya, working on it. So far, I have a fully constexpr std::array, and that requires quite some other modifications, reverse_iterator, swap_ranges, equal, lexicographical_compare, fill_n
 
@TemplateRex But (like const) it's sort of viral, so a useful proposal is non-trivial.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm starting at <array> and that leads to a handfull of changes in <algorithm>, <iterator> and <utility>
just as a proof of concept
I am hooking up the full libc++ test suite and making every assert() into a static_assert
 

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