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user142019
6:00 PM
Never said it was.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what is?
 
no, shorter codebase is much easier to maintain
 
Xeo
@JimmyT. No, "more expressive" can be proven
 
less code = less places to make bugs.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz depends.
 
6:00 PM
@rightfold no.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz Exhibit A: obfuscated Perl vs overly verbose Haskell.
 
@BartekBanachewicz shorter does not mean easier to maintain
 
@JimmyT. it's one of the factors
Exhibit B: Huge Java codebase with 2500 classes
 
user142019
> Java.
 
I am not saying it's the only or dominant factor
 
6:01 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It is, but too short is also hard to maintain, expecially if it is hard to understand
 
for fucks sake.
 
user142019
If it's readable it's fine.
 
if it's readable, make it as short as possible
 
@rightfold Yeah
 
user142019
But it must also be writable, which Java isn't.
 
6:02 PM
because short&readable > long&readable
 
@BartekBanachewicz can be done with (nearly) any language
 
user142019
Java has genorics.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what
 
ExhibitCD: C programming language
okey forget about java
 
user142019
6:03 PM
Use Haskell.
 
Make a program using hashmap in C
and make it short.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Should have been: "Exhibit: C"
 
I dare you.
 
user142019
If you use FP for a while you'll understand why FP is fucking great.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Who`?
 
Xeo
6:03 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Now you're treading into library territory
 
@Xeo sigh, okay, it doesn't have to be a hashmap
 
@rightfold You don't know objects
 
user142019
What?
 
@JimmyT. you assume he doesn't, which is untrue
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel R.I.P. Grooveshark. :(
 
user142019
6:04 PM
I've done lots of OOP.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what is untrue?
 
Xeo
@JimmyT. OOP is overrated
 
@BartekBanachewicz what? That's it?
 
user142019
And it was a nightmare.
 
6:04 PM
@Xeo Oh, right, Germany.
 
Xeo
And done wrong most of the time anyways.
 
user142019
FP woke me up from that nightmare.
 
@JimmyT. that rightfold doesn't know OOP
OOP, in general, sucks.
 
user142019
OOP, in general, is nice.
 
6:05 PM
@BartekBanachewicz lolwut?
 
in its principal design with inheritance and shit
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz That's where you're wrong
 
it's generic programming that makes it usable
 
user142019
It's just that certain OOP-related things suck.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why's that then?
 
6:05 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You know, I really don't know how to use a hammer properly. I think it's because the hammer sucks.
 
Xeo
OOP isn't necessarily about inheritence.
 
user142019
@Xeo BUT IT MAKES YOUR CODES SO REUSABLE
 
@Xeo then we're off now.
 
Xeo
It's about binding state and the functions on it, and encapsulating it
 
ok then wait wait wait
 
Xeo
6:06 PM
The C++ standard library uses OOP all over the place
 
Objects = good.
 
Xeo
But it's not overused (except IOstreams)
 
Objects with huge inheritance structure, where for example composition is better = bad.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So what you're saying is "bad programs that use OOP = bad". Well, good point! Well done.
 
Ell
Hi guys
 
6:07 PM
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, bad code is bad.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yeah, I think I failed miserably on that one.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think you might be right.
 
Point is (was) : people who are OOP zealots tend to write bad OO code
 
same as zealotry for any other technique
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit are you assigning or comparing? "bad programs that use OOP = bad"
 
6:08 PM
@BartekBanachewicz People who are zealots for anything will ultimately fail. They're too narrow-minded.
@ShuklaSannidhya both.
 
user142019
We're brogrammers.
 
just like how FP zealots will never get a real fucking job
2
 
@rightfold Ponygrammin ftw.
 
@rightfold nice
 
Ell
Do you think extension methods (ala c#) are good or bad? Because they are essentially a free function with a different syntax, no?
 
6:09 PM
@Ell yup. true.
 
user142019
@Ell good.
 
@Ell Never heard of them.
 
What is a extension method?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit void foo (this Object o) { o.bar(); } Object o; o.foo(); cc @JimmyT.
 
user142019
6:09 PM
@JimmyT. It's a method that you add to an existing class without changing that class.
 
user142019
Similar to categories in Objective-C.
 
Xeo
And that can only access public state
 
Ell
It's sort of monkey patching
 
@Rapptz Stupid dog.
 
Xeo
It's basically just infix notation for free functions
 
6:10 PM
@Ell They are good.
 
@rightfold I don't like that
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh... dear oh dear.
 
@Xeo Pretty much exactly this.
 
Ell
Why are they better than a free function?
 
user142019
@JimmyT. Yes, but you're a Java programmer.
 
6:10 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit exactly. I don't like them that much. But I figure they can have its uses, especially in narrow scope.
 
@Ell The syntax is uniform.
imagine template<typename T> void foo(T t) { t.foo(); }.
 
@rightfold What's the purpose of a extension method? How can you call them?
 
you cannot ever extend a T that does not have a foo() method to compile.
 
@JimmyT. I just showed you an example
 
@JimmyT. Like a method.
 
6:11 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Stupid owner.
 
without changing the source of T.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Isn't that redundant?
 
@Xeo gottit - good description
@EtiennedeMartel Probably
 
@JimmyT. extension methods are awesome and I wish C++ had them :/
 
@JimmyT. Have you heard about LINQ?
 
6:12 PM
@MooingDuck Isn't it just code smell?
@EtiennedeMartel Yes
 
@MooingDuck They're like ADL, but fixed.
 
@Rapptz holy shit.
 
@JimmyT. do you mean syntactic sugar? yes.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Things might be better if member functions had explicit this parameters and used free function syntax :P
 
@JimmyT. not at all, it's the same as a free function, but with prettier syntax is all.
 
6:12 PM
@JimmyT. Well, LINQ runs on extension methods.
 
@JimmyT. it's just syntax.
 
user142019
 
You couldn't have the expressiveness of LINQ without extension methods.
 
@Xeo Then how would you know who gets access to private variables?
 
@MooingDuck smelly syntax.
 
6:12 PM
well damn... I try to redirect output of build script to file to read through output... but the call to GCC is not redirected, just the actual script it self :(
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Stuff is still declared inside the class, is what I mean
 
Extension methods may be useful but not needed
 
Xeo
apply([]foo, t); is one of the reasony why I initially wanted []foo to also allow invokation of member functions, btw
 
@JimmyT. they are effectively needed for some templates.
 
user142019
Make public/private a convention of prefix _ like in Python.
 
6:13 PM
@JimmyT. Nothing is needed. Why not write in assembly while we're at it?
 
Xeo
But I guess you could do auto foos = overload([]foo, [].foo); apply(foos, t);
 
user142019
Problem solved.
 
Xeo
Hmm
That's actually pretty sweet.
 
define overload
 
I want my syntactic sugar, because I have better things to do than mess around with fucking boilerplate all day.
 
6:14 PM
@rightfold What do you mean?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Never seen before?
 
no
@EtiennedeMartel What did you think of the Wide sample I posted?
 
@DeadMG Where?
 
Xeo
template<class F1, class F2>
struct overloaded : F1, F2{
  using F1::operator();
  using F2::operator();
};
^ kind of deal
 
@EtiennedeMartel pastebin.com/UhjukHP7 (ignore the extra qualification... I didn't implement using entirely yet)
 
user142019
6:15 PM
class Foo:
    def __init__(self):
        self._bar = 42 # _bar is private by convention

foo = Foo()
foo._bar = 10 # Can still access it outside of class! Not that you're not a moron if you do it.
 
user142019
@JimmyT. this
 
Ell
@rightfold but why would you want to access it?
 
user142019
@Ell Because you're a moron.
 
@DeadMG Are all those Algorithm mandatory?
 
Ell
So don't allow it
 
6:15 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Not when I finish implementing using.
 
Xeo
@Ell To do stuff the interface normally doesn't (directly) allow - mostly for very good reasons
 
@DeadMG Looks good.
 
user142019
@Ell Why don't you access stuff in detail namespaces in C++?
 
Although I still think lambdas > anonymous functions.
 
@rightfold Why can you access private members
@EtiennedeMartel agreed
 
6:16 PM
@JimmyT. think about how much C++ code had to be changed from C.begin() to std::begin(C). Instead, we could have simply added a three line extension method for arrays to have a begin() method, and not had to change any existing code.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel erm what
 
user142019
@JimmyT. It's private by convention only. If I Python programmer sees a member prefixed with an underscore, he knows he's going to be killed if he accesses it outside of the class.
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel Because it's private by convention
 
@Xeo Please refer to @DeadMG's sample.
 
Xeo
Please tell me the difference between the two
I saw it
 
6:16 PM
@MooingDuck that's a good point
 
Ell
but I can't think of a reason ever to access private data
 
@Xeo In C#, I prefer to use => rather than delegate(...) {}
 
Xeo
What you're likely complaining about is the verbosity of his lambdas
 
Ell
unless you want to extend it in a weird way
 
Because the former is shorter.
 
Xeo
6:17 PM
Called it
 
right... but they're the same thing, really.
 
@MooingDuck on arrays yes, as the can not be defined otherwise
 
Oh, wait. Those are your lambdas?
 
Xeo
And yeah, I also think Wide's lambdas are too verbose
 
Man, they suck.
What's the point of a lambda expression if it's not even an expression?
 
6:18 PM
I have little need to change function(it) { return *it; } into an even shorter form.
 
Those are not lambdas, they're just anonymous functions.
 
@rightfold So that's the Python-way of protection I guess?
 
Xeo
| Map(*_1) :D
 
I also prefer C#'s lambdas to C++11's.
 
user142019
@JimmyT. Yes.
 
user142019
6:18 PM
 
user142019
The only real lambda syntax.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Well, C# doesn't have the "problem" of value / reference / stuff
 
C++ has lambdas?
 
Yes.
 
@EtiennedeMartel They're not comparable. The C++ lambdas have to be able to specify a lot more.
 
user142019
6:19 PM
Of course.
 
@JimmyT. Since C++11, yes.
 
@JimmyT. Where you been living, under a rock?
 
@Rapptz um yeah
 
Xeo
@DeadMG In Javaland
 
@DeadMG In Javaland.
 
6:19 PM
How do the look like?
 
in c++98 it is possible to create a function object that perfect forwards to a normal nontemplate free function
 
Xeo
lol'd
 
@Xeo Oooooh.
 
I already said I used C++
 
user142019
 
user142019
6:19 PM
I wrote this example for a classmate today.
 
@JimmyT. C++03?
 
user142019
@Code-Guru Nice!
 
anyway
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Well done, I'd say.
 
6:19 PM
you know what I think is cool?
 
@MooingDuck Moo!
 
I don't see the problem with Wide's lambdas.
 
@JimmyT. Imagine you have a program that uses a bignum from a 3rd party library. Now you get a new library for logging, but it expects certain member functions. Without extension methods, you have to replace all usages of the bignum with a custom class that encapsulates the bignum in that interface. With extension methods, you write like two functions.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Too verbose.
 
@DeadMG They're too verbose.
 
6:20 PM
what, a whole like, 10 extra characters?
 
that you can talk about lambdas and most programmers today will actually know what it is. That wasn't true 10 or even 5 years ago.
 
Remember C#'s lambdas?
 
cry me a river
 
Xeo
Dude
 
What are you, lazy?
 
Xeo
6:20 PM
If you're already allowing functional style, make it concise atleast
 
You want your language to be the bestest?
Then make it so.
 
@MooingDuck That is a workaround not a proper solution
 
@DeadMG pretty much the point in lambdas is that they're concise
 
Don't stop at "yeah, good enough".
 
@JimmyT. what would the proper solution be?
 
6:21 PM
\x -> x * x
 
user142019
Make the syntax λarg.expr noob.
 
@jalf Yeah, but there's diminishing returns here.
 
@MooingDuck What functions?
 
@JimmyT. operator +=, for example
 
@DeadMG Dude, you just said it wouldn't be hard to change.
 
6:22 PM
@DeadMG so what do they look like now?
 
as in, "I think the returns have already diminished"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why does a logging library need operator +?
 
Xeo
@jalf function(params){ exprs; }
 
@JimmyT. irrelevant, it could be any arbitrary function, in any arbitrary library.
 
6:22 PM
@Xeo Still too long. Why is there a function in there?
 
@MooingDuck Of course it's relevant.
 
@DeadMG oh, just like Javascript :)
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Read the question I answered
 
I'd say that's pretty crappy
 
@EtiennedeMartel Actually, I'm not sure that it's not. The disambiguation between (x) => shit and (x) as an expression is not fun.
 
user142019
6:23 PM
Make it fun.
 
@JimmyT. only for this one particular example. Libraries commonly require interfaces. Period.
 
@DeadMG Ah, so you're lazy.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG => isn't a valid operator, so...
 
@MooingDuck If it doesn't support it don't destroy it
 
Go with =>. Then it'll look like C#.
 
6:23 PM
@JimmyT. what? "dont destroy it?"
 
@Xeo Yeah, but when you parse (x), you have to decide if it's an expression or not.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Nonononono
 
I like \params -> expr or even params => expr
 
go with L() { }; L for lambda
 
Xeo
Every language needs its own unique lambda syntax
 
user142019
6:24 PM
@TonyTheLion eww
 
@DeadMG fn x => shit then?
 
Xeo
That's an unwritten rule
 
@MooingDuck Yes.
 
@Xeo I see your point.
 
@JimmyT. I don't know what you mean
 
6:24 PM
@rightfold looks like a C macro
 
user142019
{ body; } (params) noitcnuf
 
@rightfold I was about to suggest that.
 
Ell
lambda { };
 
@MooingDuck A proper implementation don't need an extension since it's complete
 
@JimmyT. Oh, so your code never changes?
 
6:25 PM
@Xeo fun param { expr }
:D
 
Tell me where you bought your crystal ball.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Only at the right place
 
@JimmyT. sometimes people have to work with imperfect tools.
 
@Rapptz The fun of FP.
 
@TonyTheLion clearly you should use y
 
6:25 PM
@LucDanton Yep
 
Ell
@JimmyT. You can't predict every single use case
 
Xeo
@thecoshman haha
 
@thecoshman Yes, use a special lambda unicode codepoint for lambdas
 
@MooingDuck So you mean extension methods are for using imperfect tools? that explains why microsoft implemented that feature
 
U+xxxxx
 
6:26 PM
@JimmyT. What the hell are you smoking?
 
@DeadMG Java.
 
Xeo
λ
y
 
extension methods are like ADL but fixed, and there's a billion good examples of ADL in C++
 
ahahahahhaahah
 
user142019
array.sort_by(sub {
    auto a = shift, b = shift;
    return a < b;
});
 
Xeo
6:26 PM
I like it
 
Reminds me the last time I saw a discussion about adding type inference to Java. The usual response was "nobody needs that". Then I faced palmed, because, well, in C# we kinda need it a lot.
 
y() {body;};
 
@DeadMG Only natural marijuana
 
@JimmyT. or making one interface match another
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel The usual response is "dynamic typing is bad."
 
6:27 PM
@MooingDuck Adapters
 
@JimmyT. That's what an extension method is
 
user142019
You need an AdapterFactory.
 
@rightfold That wasn't it. Actually, what the fuck does dynamic typing has to do with that? Were you simply trying to name drop something?
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel BUT I DIDN'T WRITE THE TYPE
 
I don't know why I'm still arguing
 
6:28 PM
yay, build system finally builds a program (even if it does default to saying it failed to actually compile), damn, glload is reporting graphics card as only supporting 1.4
 
> If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.
 
@MooingDuck Adapter is a pattern which does not need extension methods at all
 
@JimmyT. It also requires many more lines of code.
 
@MooingDuck What if the extension method is added later directly to the code?
 
@TonyTheLion IMO probably the biggest deal with lambda syntax is avoiding parentheses and braces
 
user142019
6:28 PM
"X needs Y" is different from "X is Y".
 
@EtiennedeMartel Just pay for your bad code
 
@jalf Can you please get into Arguing Mode against Jimmy?
I want him to weep afterward.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Do you actually know if the whole (x) => expr thing is LRable?
 
Sure, Jimmy sucks and is wrong about everything
 
@DeadMG No idea.
 
6:29 PM
what is he saying, again?
 
@JimmyT. now THAT is a workaround for lack of extension methods
 
@jalf That you don't need extension methods (I assume, in Java).
 
user142019
@jalf That everything Java doesn't support is a work-around around design patterns.
 
Xeo
@jalf I'm laughing way too hard thanks to that little sentence
 
user142019
Basically.
 
6:30 PM
@JimmyT. if an interface changes to be incompatable with my code, I DEFINITELY want a compiler error.
 
@MooingDuck It's a workaround for a lack of intelligence
 
Oh, well, you don't need them. But they're useful as hell
 
user142019
@JimmyT. "It" referring to Java.
 
@MooingDuck Does not make sense
 
@JimmyT. then we're done.
 
user142019
6:30 PM
If you don't want errors, use PHP.
 
user142019
in Java Sucks, 6 secs ago, by rightfold
@JimmyT. No shit Sherlock.
 
@rightfold Or VB.
On Error Resume Next.
 
user142019
Hihi.
 
I found a Japanese Boost.Spirit+POSIX Shell blog: aihara.co.jp/~taiji/tp/?id=26
 
You're all cunts! :)
 
6:32 PM
but all that argumentation don't have any purpose at al
 
Too bad my Japanese sucks.
 
You're all cute! :)
 
@JimmyT. What is your point?
What started all that?
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel I told him Java and C++ sucked and that he should use Haskell, then he asked why FP is great.
 
is Boost utree any good?
 
6:33 PM
@rightfold Extension methods isn't FP.
LINQ is functional, yes, but extension methods are a purely OO concept.
 
Doesn't D's uniform call syntax makes more sense than extension methods for C++, given that not every function is a member?
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Dunno who mentioned that and why.
 
@LucDanton We're not talking about C++.
 
@JimmyT. we already said at least it has syntactic sugar, and at least is excellent for matching primitives to interfaces. We were debating a third bonus for extension methods.
 
18 mins ago, by Mooing Duck
@JimmyT. think about how much C++ code had to be changed from C.begin() to std::begin(C). Instead, we could have simply added a three line extension method for arrays to have a begin() method, and not had to change any existing code.
 
6:35 PM
@LucDanton Oh. He said that?
Woa.
 
u stupid
 
It's funny how fast a programming discussion comes to an "religion" discussion
 
@LucDanton Seulement à temps partiel.
 
It's funny how people pull the "religion" card when they run out of arguments. :)
 
user142019
27 mins ago, by Ell
Do you think extension methods (ala c#) are good or bad? Because they are essentially a free function with a different syntax, no?
 
6:36 PM
yeah... I'm pretty sure I can recognize a religion discussion, and I don't see any references to anybody's God or lack thereof
 
It's easier to debate about religion than about programming. Religious people are less stubborn.
 
@jalf I just meant that it is stupid to argue about such things
 
Except religious programmers.
 
@DeadMG God = God++:
 
@JimmyT. religion? I pointed out many pros for extension methods, and you said they were all stupid. I don't recall you actually providing any evidence for extension methods being bad.
 
6:37 PM
You mean, "it's funny how fast a programming discussion becomes stupid to argue about"?
that does not make sense
 
@MooingDuck You pointed out many subjective pros
 
@JimmyT. and you pointed out zero subjective or objective cons.
 
user142019
in Java Sucks, 23 secs ago, by Jimmy T.
Haskell is bad
 
user142019
lol
 
@MooingDuck Same about you ;)
 
6:38 PM
@JimmyT. right. Because there's only pros.
 
3 mins ago, by Luc Danton
18 mins ago, by Mooing Duck
@JimmyT. think about how much C++ code had to be changed from C.begin() to std::begin(C). Instead, we could have simply added a three line extension method for arrays to have a begin() method, and not had to change any existing code.
 
@JimmyT. the nice thing about being the person arguing in favor of something is that you don't have to come up with all the cons
 
@MooingDuck We're all pros.
4
 
That's kind of the responsibility of the guy arguing that the thing in question sucks
 
@MooingDuck That's your opinion
 
6:39 PM
@JimmyT. and yet you were unable to propose any cons?
So it seems like it's your opinion as well
 
@JimmyT. well, my opinion is that it's good. Your opinion seems to be it's not bad. So I guess that leaves us with "extension methods are probably good".
 
@jalf Try to disprove a christian and you will know what I mean
 
@JimmyT. "disprove a christian"?
I can't, I know they exist
 
I just got here and I'm confuzzled
 
It's a fact
I've met them
 
6:40 PM
@MooingDuck yes
 
The coherence level in here has reached new lows
 
@rubenvb Grab a beer, everything will be fine.
 
@EtiennedeMartel already had one.
 
@JimmyT. oh, I didn't realize I'd gotten you that far. Ok then.
 
@rubenvb Time for double fisting.
 
6:40 PM
Then I looked at Boost docs, and lost all hope of ever doing anything useful today
 
@jalf Disprove the belief of a christian not disprove that they exist
 
@JimmyT. Oh, you should've said. :)
 
user142019
I'm eating a phallic object.
 
I've done that, once or twice. Over time. And I probably can't take full credit for it
 
I think I might be too programming-stupid to actually make any use of Boost.Spirit :(
 
6:41 PM
@jalf Why not?
@rightfold Good
 
It seems like a holy grail (get the religion reference?)
 
When C++ and Haskell go on a war... Guess who wins...
 
@rubenvb no
 
@JimmyT. Because people live independent lives, and while I can discuss a person's religion with them, shoot down some of their arguments, inform them of what we happen to know about the world which doesn't fit with the Bible and so on, I can't flick a switch to change their minds
 
@ShuklaSannidhya When two quarrel, a third rejoices.
 
6:42 PM
Occasionally, you can sow some doubts in the other person's mind, get them to consider new information, and maybe show them that what they thought was true is... a bit flaky. But That doesn't mean that when they do change their mind, it is solely because of what you said
 
@jalf good and bad cannot be proven
2
 
@EtiennedeMartel By the way, I was most disappointed with Spec Ops: The Line
 
Point is, though, religious debates aren't actually as futile as people who say "this is a religious debate" about programming stuff usually want to imply
@JimmyT. What does that mean?
 
@DeadMG Not enough double fisting?
 
@DeadMG Hmm?
How come?
 
6:43 PM
I'm pretty sure that Christians believe in God, not in Good.
 
eh
 
@jalf what it says
 
the gameplay was fundamentally repetitive
I played for a few hours and the fifth hour was just like the first ten minutes
 
I'm also pretty sure that good deeds can be proven. You know, I help a person in need, I've done some good.
 
Speaking of gameplay. I picked up Unreal again.
 
@DeadMG They voluntarily made the game less fun to avoid harming their message.
 
@jalf no
@jalf you might have made it even worse than it was before
 
I told you the game wasn't fun, anyway.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Why on earth would I keep playing a game that isn't fun in order to hear their message?
 
I was blown away by its incredible awesomeness (after installing the D3D10 renderer so the dynamic lighting wouldn't bring the S/W renderer to its knees).
 
6:44 PM
also, the plot doesn't make that much sense
 
@DeadMG It's probably a hallucination anyway.
@DeadMG I don't know. Why would you play a game that isn't fun? Isn't that an interesting question?
 
@JimmyT. made what worse?
 
why is EVERYBODY in Dubai trying to kill the new guys? surely at least someone should be on their team
 
@DeadMG Well, you shot first.
 
6:45 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I didn't is the answer :P
@EtiennedeMartel Actually, I'm pretty sure that they shot first.
anyway, since you recommended it, I just wanted you to know how unfun I found it, that's all.
 
@jalf your activity can lead to a worse situation than it would have been otherwise. you can not know
 
@DeadMG Really? Maybe they were just stressed out.
 
@JimmyT. that is one nonsensical argument.
 
@EtiennedeMartel what's that?
 
6:47 PM
@EtiennedeMartel What am I not spotting?
 
@JimmyT. If I help an old lady across the street, for example, then I know for a fact that I have helped them overcome one particular obstacle here and now. I don't know what else might happen throughout the world, but on a local level, at a high degree of temporal and spatial locality, I have done something good
 
@JimmyT. A spoiler.
@DeadMG It's Conrad.
 
Anyway, how does the ability to prove Good/Evil have anything to do with religion?
Or with extension methods, for that matter?
 
lol
 
Is it in any way relevant to what we were discussing?
 
6:47 PM
@jalf if you don't helped her she might overcome her inability and helped herself
@jalf the word is "might"
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ah. Then, no
 
@JimmyT. let's assume she asked for help?
Anyway, it doesn't matter because you haven't established any connection between this, and what we were actually discussing
 
@DeadMG Also, did you find interesting how the finishing moves were getting more cruel as the game progressed?
 
@jalf A friend of mine who believes in God thinks those have everything to do with each other. Don't ask me how or what, I can't explain.
 
user142019
Man.
 
user142019
6:48 PM
Lenses work so fucking well with the reader and state monads.
 
Xeo
@rubenvb God obviously made old people weak and guided her into your path so you could help her and do your good deed.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think I'd have to have spent more time playing to have noticed
 
Xeo
It's obvious, d'uh
 
@DeadMG Did you feel like an ass after the white phosphorous incident?
 
@Xeo I never said he was a she. That would be something though.
 
6:49 PM
didn't reach it
 
@jalf still the same. It's the same analogy if you help somebody with their homework. They might learn better but it is also possible that they learn to learn without you
 
@DeadMG What. You played five hours without reaching that?
 
er
actually, it felt like five hours
 
The game is five hours long.
 
Xeo
@rubenvb With "her" I meant the old woman
 
6:49 PM
I checked my Steam library and it says 84 minutes
 
Xeo
lol
 
Well, congratulations.
 
Yeah, congratulations
 
There's some undercurrent of "Your only choice is to stop" in the plot.
 
@JimmyT. Fun fact: saying "is is still the same" does not make it the same. A moment ago, you were quizzing me on my ability to make a Christian stop believing in their faith. How does "the ability to prove good and evil" have anything to do with that?
 
6:50 PM
@Xeo Ah, I missed that one. That message was TL;DR.
 
yeah
 
I went through the whole thing, and felt like an asshole.
 
but I think that my central point about the game is that if you don't make it fun to play, then I'm not gonna stick around and find out what your plot is.
considering that I could be playing Mafia instead
 
There's no accounting for taste, I suppose.
 
I agree
 
6:51 PM
The game made me realize that I could actually spend time playing a game that isn't fun.
And so, that fun isn't the only motivator in a game.
 
I think a while ago I might have had that talent
but it's long gone now
if I want serious efforts and thoughts, I boot up VS, not a game
six years ago I was totally into playing in depth and hardcore competitiveness and all the rest of it
 
I'm not talking about competitiveness.
 
@jalf Fun fact: Saying something is not true does not make it wrong
 
I'm gonna redo Ambrosia, or at least what was complete.
 
Also, fair warning: you spent 30 minutes of everyone's time arguing that extension methods sucked despite having absolutely no evidence to back up that claim. Then you took some unexplained detour around religion and disproving a person's faith, only to abandon that and start rambling about good and evil. I might soon start to suspect that you're just throwing random words at us in the hope that some of them might somehow... I don't even know. Might somehow have some effect on us.
 
6:53 PM
I'm talking about art.
 
user142019
Haskell?
 
@jalf Looks like trolling.
 
@jalf it was an enlightenment
 
@EtiennedeMartel In this situation, they are the same thing.
you are putting yourself through a non-fun activity for some meta-reward
 
@JimmyT. Fun fact: we were talking about religion. If there is a connection between what we were talking about then, and your incoherent ramblings about good and evil, then please let me know what it is. Otherwise you are fucking trolling and will go on my ignore list pronto
 
6:54 PM
We need a "You've been jalfed!" message.
 
bool is not a C keyword, then why do most editors highlight it?
 
@ShuklaSannidhya Because it is in C++.
Are you on VS?
 
@jalf In religion it's all about defeating opinions as fact that is what I mean
@jalf Do you understand me?
 
... did that make any sense to anyone else here?
 
@ShuklaSannidhya Maybe you're using a C++ IDE or C++ syntax highlightning?
 
6:54 PM
I mean
 
@EtiennedeMartel @Tuntuni Nope I am on sublime... And Syntax is set to C.
 
@JimmyT. I can honestly say that I do not.
 
If you want to debate that much, we could still talk about music and gender studies. And cooking.
 
when I'm top 50 in the world at Supreme Commander, then I don't keep getting my ass whupped by the number 1 in the world for fun, it's so I can figure out how to beat him
 
@ShuklaSannidhya Perhaps there is an assumption that code which contains bool is using <stdbool.h>.
 
6:55 PM
@jalf Then I have to ask you what you understand with religion before a can answer your question
 
@JimmyT. I had a question?
 
@jalf i guess with "then please let me know what it is" you wanted an answer or am I wrong?
 
@LucDanton Even then, it should be _Bool ... not bool... It is not a C keyword right?
 
you were telling me that if I'd ever tried to make a Christian stop believing in their religion, then I would know what you meant. I replied that I had done just that, and then you completely jumped off the rails and started incoherently talking about something completely different
 
@ShuklaSannidhya _Bool actually.
 
6:57 PM
@ShuklaSannidhya No. _Bool is the keyword regardless of <stdbool.h>.
 
But hey, if you don't know what you're trying to say, and I don't understand what you're saying, it all evens out in the end.
 
@jalf you whould not make them unbelieving you should offer an disprove they accept
 
@LucDanton oh I got it...
 
I'm gonna go clean the kitchen. Just had yummy dinner
 
@jalf ?
@jalf sorry misread
 
6:58 PM
Someone should write a manual on how the Internet Works
 
@JimmyT. Cleaning the kitchen is a better job than involving in some senseless debate on religion and stuff...
 
There are too many people that take this cyberspace way too seriously.
 
Xeo
@jalf So yummy you wanted the kitchen to also have a taste?
 
how it appears to work to me is, "Jimmy T gets his ass kicked"
 
Take these fellas for example.
 
6:59 PM
@rubenvb Let's get started... Chapter 1: Introduction to Internet
 
@Xeo of course
 
@ShuklaSannidhya That is what I said and nobody seemed to understand
 

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