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11:00 PM
@Grinya I'd use an existing library
 
I wish Box2D had better code.
 
I try to get clear understanding of problem so i need to write it by myself.
I don't want to use frameworks.
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun what does it look like?
 
Box2d is famous framework for game developers
 
Ell
11:02 PM
IIRC box2d isn't that bad
 
@Grinya yeah that's right. but usually writing your own library takes more time than writing an actual game with an existing library.
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun looks Cish
 
@Abyx i agree.
 
b2Body* b2World::CreateBody(const b2BodyDef* def) - looks like a crap.
 
Ell
At least there's a const in there
 
user1804599
11:04 PM
It avoids STL for silly reasons.
 
user1804599
And IIRC also exceptions.
 
user1804599
Is this answer correct?
 
Lol. RT @sandbaydev Give a man a game engine and he delivers a game. Teach a man to make a game engine and he never delivers anything.
 
@rightfold well it's ~gamedev~
 
Ell
There is no reason to avoid STL
 
user1804599
11:05 PM
I have never used NVI so it was a wild guess. :P
 
"Why are you using pointers?"
"COS GAMEDEV."
 
Ell
@sehe that is genius!
 
Hrm.
What do you do when you cannot figure out a compile error?
 
I'm guessing you're getting undefined types for no good reason
 
@rightfold looks OK to me. but I also don't use NVI
 
11:07 PM
That happens with VS whenever there are circular dependencies somewhere :v
 
Not that, no.
Aug 24 at 20:30, by Pawnguy7
explicit specialization; 'std::hash<_Kty>' has already been instantiated
 
Ell
@pawnguy pace the room
Or ask someone
 
I fixed this before :\
I just don't remember how.
 
Ell
I'm guessing you're nit the one doing the specialization?
 
@Ell nit?
 
11:08 PM
Follow the compiler output to find the line in your code
 
Ell
*not
 
@rightfold you should use NVI (unless you're not using virtual)
 
@Ell I was trying to specialize std::hash for sf::Vector2i, so I can use an unordered_map
 
@Ell lol
 
@sehe I heard that the type-erasure pattern is even better than NVI.
 
11:10 PM
@sehe what a crap?!
 
@Pawnguy7 show more code. Also, potentially you have typedefs that are effectively synonyms?
 
user1804599
> I’m not 100% sure about why it’s allowed to privatise otherwise public members. My guess is for flexibility.
 
user1804599
HELP! I don’t know!
 
don't ask me. i don't do game dev.
Howerver, many people seemed to think this touches truth
 
@rightfold just compile the code.
 
11:12 PM
@Abyx Well, they're different
 
@sehe I can agree about commercial games, but not indie game dev...
 
@Grinya I believe you
 
Or maybe I never fixed this at all.
I seem to recall making a brute-force key/value thing.
 
Google+ is a modern, full featured social network designed from the ground up to communicate with your friend who works at Google
 
11:18 PM
No thanks, I can communicate with Misty over this Chat ;_;
 
@Pawnguy7 sorry, that doesn't seem like it exposes the problem. Minimize your problem?
 
user1804599
> As for the privatising otherwise public members part, if somebody would suddenly make function_impl public in base, it won’t break the derived classes. I’m not saying it’s a very good idea to do this, but C++ usually just assumes you know what you’re doing, hence it’s such a flexible language.
 
user1804599
Welp, my best guess.
 
@Grinya What's the difference?
 
user1804599
I don’t like the answer anymore after bitmask’s comment. :(
 
user1804599
11:18 PM
Time to sleep; it’s Monday.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wishful thinking?
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what are you talking about?
 
@Grinya care to explain?
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
Hmmm.
 
user1804599
11:21 PM
Is it normal to have a thread-local transaction/checkpoint stack for database transactions?
 
user1804599
With checkpoint_guards that create checkpoints on construction and commit or rollback them on destruction.
 
user1804599
And when the stack is empty upon destruction of the last checkpoint_guard, the entire transaction would be committed.
 
9 mins ago, by Grinya
@sehe I can agree about commercial games, but not indie game dev...
 
I have a presentation for English class tomorrow about whatever topic I want.
I chose The Multiverse and Why Our Universe is Fine-Tuned For Life
 
And who will give the presentation?
 
11:23 PM
Me ;-;
 
Lol. You failed to mention that. This is a great start for your >English< class presentation :)
 
I had a whole presentation about Carbyne Nanoropes, but I was inspired to do something cooler earlier this morning ;_;
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i mean that commercial game has fixed time to complete, but indie has more freedom
 
How does that help delivering something?
To me it sounds like the complete opposite.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Delivering not such critical for indie
 
11:25 PM
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes as indie game developer i can set deadline by myself, but in comm project it set by producer.
 
Douglas Hoftstader goes into a bar and orders a lame joke. Bartender goes, "Douglas Hoftstader goes into a bar and orders a lame joke."
 
feel deference now?
 
@sehe seems to work in a SSCCE. Any idea what might be interfering?
 
> deference
yes
@Pawnguy7 headers, TUs, duplications :/
 
11:28 PM
@Grinya No, I don't/
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ok, don't care about it...
 
I don't see how that makes the quoted tweet different for indie development.
 
@Grinya but how does that tie back to the original quote you claimed was crap?
 
If you don't deliver, you don't deliver.
 
@sehe not a header (that is, this is a cpp), if I comment out the hash part, it just cannot find it, no other errors
 
11:29 PM
It's irrelevant if you don't deliver because you failed a deadline, or if you didn't fail a deadline because you didn't have one.
 
Not sure if that signifies anything.
 
Indie vapourware is still vapourware.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nah, it's just a WIP :P
 
@Pawnguy7 Error messages always signify things. Anyways, keep adding more project-similar code layout until you hit the same snag.
Also, try a full rebuild once. I'm smelling an opportunity for VS to mess up :/
@thecoshman +1
 
If i don't deliver anything to marker, don't mean i don't deliver.
Quote was about commercial products.
 
11:32 PM
So.... Moving the goalposts is not your logical fallacy.
It's your freaking job :)
 
Ell
Inb4 op doesn't deliver
 
Ok. What mean deliver?
 
user1804599
This is funny. :)
 
Give me goal to write engine and i'll deliver shit to you!
 
@Grinya mo, it was about how people who know how to make an engine tend to spend more time making engines than actually writing games.
 
11:34 PM
@Grinya By "more freedom" do you mean "less money"?
 
@Grinya literally? :)
 
Isn't deliver? )
@EtiennedeMartel Sure. Money not all in this world.
 
@Grinya In game development, it's pretty much all there is.
No money, no game.
 
@thecoshman Agree! But it depends on goals. Mostly commercial products.
 
@Grinya I'm pretty sure the quote was about developers, not products.
 
11:35 PM
@rightfold Woot
 
If you want to make a game, make it and ship it. Especially if you're an indie.
 
user1804599
I just edited an answer by Vlad from Moscow.
 
I don't see any reasons to never deliver any stuff after engine done..
 
AAA devs may have the resources to spend years on tech, but indies can't.
 
@rightfold Yay
 
11:36 PM
@Grinya Because by then you would have run out of cash.
If you work on tech first, the best you can hope to ship is a tech demo.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Maybe, but who stop you from rising some cash from another source?
 
@Grinya so then it is not crap, like you originally said
 
@Grinya Because it's not that easy.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I know, but possible
:13130894 Rising cash is true skill of indie developer
 
Right
 
11:38 PM
I take it you're an indie dev?
 
@Grinya unless you are one of the few people who should be developing engines, you should just use existing engines. That is what the tweet was making fun of, the fact people get caught up in making a game engine (or any other library for that matter) rather then just using existing solutions.
 
And delivering is the true skill of "commercial developers"?
 
Rise more money to buy dictionaries.
[Sorry Can Not Resist]
 
user1804599
India dev.
 
Because you're increasingly sounding like a guy who's trying to convince himself.
 
11:39 PM
12 mins ago, by Grinya
@R.MartinhoFernandes as indie game developer i can set deadline by myself, but in comm project it set by producer.
 
@sehe Interestingly, it isn't always that simple.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no, comm developer not searching money. It's producer's job.
 
@EtiennedeMartel You tell him :)
 
Ell
@thecoshman no nice open source engines exist :( someone needs to write one for me!
 
For example, my employer exclusively makes licensed games, and those games are sometimes tie-ins with other products, so sometimes the deadline is the release of that other product.
 
11:40 PM
Remember folks! The world is black and white.
2
 
@Grinya So their skill is delivering?
 
@Ell why do you need an open source engine?
 
@Ell Forget open source, get Unity.
Ship the game.
Make money (or probably not, the real issue is marketing).
 
whoa, with all the disk drives off, my desktop is pretty quiet
 
Unity is slow
 
11:41 PM
@sehe ah come on, sarcasm is allowed... that was... sarcatic right?
 
I'm always sarcatic
 
@Grinya I'd like to know your source.
 
This is why I'm not making a game. My team is. ;-;
 
@melak47 Mine is silent. Even with the main disk drive on :)
 
@sehe ¬_¬
 
11:43 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Intsead, I'd like to know the relevance of that claim
 
Good night babes~
 
Likewise
 
I need to sort out getting some quite fans for my desktop... that hum is relentlessly office like.
 
Unity is framework. There's nothing to say.
 
Especially considering "slow" is meaningless.
 
Ell
11:43 PM
Freedom n that
 
@Grinya It allows you to get shit done.
 
Slowly
 
@EtiennedeMartel Sure
 
There are too many programmers in indie and not enough designers.
 
@Grinya do you want to make games, or make game engines?
 
11:44 PM
@thecoshman Game on own engine.
 
user3010322
@Grinya Get in line.
 
@Grinya Why your own engine?
 
I don't know how framework works
 
@thecoshman I think he prefers to chat on the internet, procrastinating "delivering shit"
 
FW takes resources anyway.
 
11:45 PM
@EtiennedeMartel not enough other skills IMO
 
@Grinya That's why they come with their own documentation.
 
user3010322
There's really no reason to make your own game engine unless there's a specific toolset you need to provide for yourself.
 
Look at John Carmack.
 
@Grinya not an option, unless you are willing to settle for shit game not working ona shit engine.
 
11:45 PM
@Grinya yay for FUD and rationalizing NIH
 
user3010322
Oh god
 
@Grinya that's an excuse, not a justification.
 
13 mins ago, by sehe
So.... Moving the goalposts is not your logical fallacy.
It's your freaking job :)
I wasn't exaggerating
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Look at John Carmack. LOOK AT HIM. [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [no-maths] [no-questions]
 
user3010322
LOOK AT THE MAN.
 
11:46 PM
lol
Look at me!
Funny
 
@Grinya Okay. Done. What next?
 
Cool
 
¬_¬ yeah I did it
 
user3010322
You still haven't explained why you need to make your own engine.
 
11:46 PM
Not Valve!
 
There is a man who does very little with regards to actually making games.
 
Ell
There are lots or really great open source tools, for some reason a game engine isn't one of them :/
 
@thecoshman You did very with omitting a word
 
user3010322
The only reason I'm making a game engine is because I'm a programmer, and when I use engines from the standpoint of a programmer I want to barf.
 
> is 121.99 MB; this exceeds GitHub's file size limit of 100 MB
 
11:48 PM
Ok. 1 - it's faster. 2 - you know how it works. 3 - it's easy to modify for your goals. 4 - it's always friendly with you.
 
@Grinya On that subject, note that id makes tech demos, not games.
 
ERGH!!!!
 
user3010322
Even UE4 was a nightmare, and that was new.
 
lol, faster.
 
Their titles are technically impressive in some way, but usually have very poor design and gameplay mechanics.
 
11:48 PM
I know all about ID
 
user3010322
@Grinya You will never be faster than UE4, UE3, or even Unity, all by yourself.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes slower?
 
user3010322
Never in a million years.
 
@thecoshman What on earth are you cooking?
 
user3010322
That's a guarantee.
 
11:49 PM
@ThePhD Not sure
 
So, if that's your goal, sure. But keep in mind you'll juste add more sludge to the sea of sludge that is the video game industry.
 
@Grinya 5. it's easy to move the goalposts :)
 
user3010322
@Grinya I worked for Microsoft. I got to read the code of every game engine that passed through their hands, and got to look at the source code for over 30 different games. You're not smarter than these people.
 
user3010322
Especially talking as you are now.
 
@Grinya 1 - no, you have not had the time to make it as fast, you just have less features. 2 - so, you can learn how to use unity too. 3 - no, set your goals then work towards them, what tool you use does not matter. 4 - no, your own engine does not have a community of thousands who can offer you help
 
Ell
11:50 PM
Inb4 the phantom derp is accidentally violating copyright law
 
I never say about any type of engines! What engines you mean? ))
 
Sigh.
 
)))
 
Let me tell you, Ubisoft's Scimitar has such ugly code...
It's a fucking macro fest in there.
 
Game engines so different!
 
11:51 PM
@Grinya ... the ones you would rather write your self opposed to using an existing one...
 
@sehe apparently, it came after one use of it, but before the next four, and it only gives me the error for the last one
 
A single MACRO is a fucking macro fest :)
 
@sehe mod pack download...
 
Also, it is not safe to assume there is no code about 300 lines of comments :\
 
user3010322
Fuck, I'm in a fucking macro fest then. :c
 
11:52 PM
@Grinya lol
 
@thecoshman git bup or just... don't do that
 
user3010322
Oh!
 
user3010322
@melak47 Did you see the repo?
 
@sehe bup?
 
user3010322
The engine repo, anyhow.
 
11:52 PM
Engine developing not always takes much time like develop idTech100500 from blank sheet.
 
user3010322
Well, I can see nothing we say will convince you.
 
@Grinya It's always longer than you think it is.
 
user3010322
Get back to us in a few months after you do all that work. :D
 
@thecoshman bit.ly/19UtpgF
 
@EtiennedeMartel Sure. Any work takes much time than you planing before
 
11:53 PM
@sehe ¬_¬
 
Sweet. It actually worked. I hadn't checked what page it would come up with :)
 
I'll have you know I had already googled it any way
 
I wish people would stop using "planning" as a synonym for "poor planning".
 
though I don't see how it is relevant...
 
11:54 PM
@thecoshman I don't really care.
22
A: Managing large binary files with git

seheHave a look at git bup which is a git extension to smartly store large binaries in a git repo. You'd want to have it as a submodule but you won't have to worry about the repo getting hard to handle. One of their sample use cases is storing VM images in git. I haven't actually seen better compre...

 
@Grinya woah there, you need to calm down and think out your sentences a bit more, even I'm having a hard time following you piglish
 
Why?
 
@thecoshman ... language barriers. I even scensored some of my own witticisms
 
@sehe that's not going to let me host a file on github pages?
@sehe hence, 'take the time'
 
@thecoshman Oh, surely not. Why don't you tell us what you're trying to achieve, next time
 
11:56 PM
@Grinya because it is getting very hard to understand what you are trying to say.
 
binary '==' : no operator found which takes a left-hand operand of type 'std::pair<const _Kty,_Ty>' (or there is no acceptable conversion)
Sounds like the type doesn't have operator==...
But it does.
 
hello guys
 
@sehe ... I exasperated at a 'file to big for GH' message... told you I was trying to store a mod pack... then you offered that...
 
@thecoshman I want to say that if you want to write engine - do it, if you want to surf code at microsoft - do it. what wrong?
 
@thecoshman You can store it using git bup. End of story
Fact: when it comes to deadlines, Sunday evening is equivalent to Friday afternoon.
Time for a truth about deadlines
 
11:59 PM
By the way, today many game projects that live for few years, delivered and never meet deadline end.
 
Is that supposed to make sense?
 
Permanent development
sure
All i'll say make sense!
 

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