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8:02 AM
@sbi Neither have I.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Sigh. He was still going on how what he pasted in there should have been safe, while that website's "joke" is that it always returns "unsafe, since you have just given it to us". He later explained how/that he got the joke, but how was I to know that, given what he said before?
A nice picture of the transit of the Venus.
 
@sbi Eh, I just got two jokes :P
 
@sbi that's awesome. If only they could implement swift and prompt deployment of Raptors or similar !
@sbi Haha
 
weird. I cant seem to understand what this linker error means
1>Main.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "bool __cdecl compare(struct Student_info &,struct Student_info &)" (?compare@@YA_NAAUStudent_info@@0@Z) referenced in function _main
 
8:09 AM
and here's the call to it .
 
@KodeSeeker It means, as I said before, "You did not define some thing you declared", with "thing" being "compare".
 
sort(students.begin(),students.end(),compare);
 
@sehe Translation?
 
^^ Fokke & Sukke
Had gotten up early for the purpose.

"What a spectacular transit of the clouds!!!"
 
lol
 
8:10 AM
@DeadMG sry. typing takes time...
 
@sehe Didn't realize you were already. Was just a request, not a spank.
 
sbi
@KodeSeeker It means the linker cannot find the function bool compare(Student_info &,Student_info &). It's declared, but not defined, or you haven't passed the obj file to the linker.
 
@DeadMG sry is an apology, not a retort
 
@sehe Ah kk
 
. Actually I did define it in two places . Here's how it 's declared in the header-> `bool compare(Student_info& ,Student_info& );` and its *defined* as -> `bool compare(const Student_info& x, const Student_info& y)
{
return x.name < y.name;
}`
 
sbi
8:12 AM
Also, a comparison function should not change the objects it compares, so they should be passed per const reference.
@sehe :)
 
@sbi Im passing references there, I believe.
 
sbi
@KodeSeeker Ah, see, these are two different functions. The one declared takes it arguments per non-const ref, the one defined takes them per const ref.
 
you declared it without const.
 
@sbi you mean the `const'
 
sbi
@DeadMG :b
 
8:13 AM
Gah
 
@KodeSeeker deja vu. I think I answered this exact question once on SO proper. Sadly, can't find it
 
@sehe @sbi : So much for function overloading D:
 
@sehe Probably the same professor.
@KodeSeeker Sane people just use an operator overload, or define them inline :P
 
@DeadMG Indeed. I guess Im just trying to find my sanity then :P
 
sbi
This is indeed cool. Give the guy an upvote. (James pointed it out on Twitter.)
 
8:17 AM
@sbi That's quite win.
 
@sbi Old hat. Old as hell.
 
@DeadMG Or switch to Java.. *ahem*
 
oh, I didn't know that tie works this way
 
@Neil Do that and you stop qualifying as "Sane people".
 
sbi
@sehe What do you have against age? Raises eyebrow.
 
8:20 AM
@sbi Duplicateness
3
A: How to map a bool to a 3d point struct with std::map?

seheOf course, boost::tuple<int,int,int> would make this utterly unnecessary. Update Adding the all-inclusive have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too no-drawback solution here. IMHO it rocks! #include <boost/tuple/tuple_comparison.hpp> struct point { int x, y, z; point(int x, int y, int...

I'm sure I've used it earlier than that on SO
 
sbi
> So much of what I see here at E3 is aimed directly at the lizard hindbrain of a 13-year-old boy. But you have to be 18 to get into the show, and it's nominally for industry professionals. Perhaps someday we—men and women alike—can all be treated like the grown-ups we theoretically are, and be trusted to judge a game by its content... not its double-D cover. — Kate Cox
Now last.fm has been hacked, too. If you're a customer, you should change your password now.
 
Hmmm. I'm not sure whether 'treated like the grown-ups we [...] are' isn't denying reality: we are grown ups, and acting like it. However, the point is of course, whether we want (need) to be reinforcing such natural tendencies.
 
sbi
@sehe She might be expecting too much from grown-up men, yeah. :)
 
@sbi Huh, they don't actually state there was a breach, do they?
@sbi and women, mind you
 
sbi
@sehe "We are currently investigating the leak of some Last.fm user passwords."
 
8:28 AM
@sehe So we have to put on monocles and mustaches and go to the E3 saying, "I say, last year was quite the show. And that spot of tea they served during was delightful."
 
sbi
@sehe It's not like women react positively to all the female nekkidness in the game industry.
 
> This follows recent password leaks on other sites as well as information posted online. As a precautionary measure [...]
 
That's the nature of gaming, just like you wouldn't go to a strip club hoping to rate the bodies of women on a scale from 1 to 10 and leaving with a detailed analysis of how it compared to the last strip club you went to.
 
sbi
@sehe Yeah, other sites were hacked, too, recently.
 
good morning :)
 
8:29 AM
@KonradRudolph Hiya Konrad
 
@sbi Well, somehow they participate. It might be that power is exerted, but somehow that power gets traction without use of illegal methods (physical force, slavery etc). Think about it. It is an eco-system.
 
@Neil ... it is not the nature of gaming to be sexist, immature and offensive. it is the nature of E3, but not the nature of gaming
 
sbi
@Neil But why is it the nature of gaming?
 
gah whats a debug error
 
@sbi Because the focus of gaming is entertainment
 
8:30 AM
@sbi But the quote makes it seem they don't have solid information. The worst they seem to suggest (in my mind) is that it was suggested on the internet that last.fm password were leaked
 
it might be what you associate gaming with, which is great for you, but please keep in mind that there are hundreds of millions of gamers out there in the world, and far from all them are sexist pricks who want to be associated with that garbage
 
If you want to be a professional in the gaming industry, it also helps to be a gamer
 
@sehe Well put
 
sbi
@Neil But if they only focus on 13-17yo boys, they are incredibly narrow-minded.
 
@Neil Are you saying that one cannot possibly be a gamer without applauding booth babes and the associated immature and condescending sexism?
 
8:31 AM
@sbi Again, and you think if they didn't put all that eyecandy that their sales would *increase*?
 
@Neil Perhaps, perhaps not. But not everyone considers it "eye candy", and for an entertainment industry that's bigger than movies, you'd think they were able to cope with the idea that "not all of our customers are 14-year-old males"
 
@jalf I didn't say that. I'm saying you must know what sells, and unfortunately what attracts the lizard brains of 13-17yo boys is what sells.
 
@sbi (a) Do they focus on 13-17yo boys? How can we back that up? Saying we have a 30yo male and a 15yo female who doesn't like it doesn't quite back that up. (b) If they focus on the wrong audience, the market should tell them?
 
sbi
@sehe There's a list of 2.5 million hashed last.fm passwords circulating. (Sorry, I only have a German source for this.).
 
Different question, is LinkedIn ever going to deign to notify me of the fact that my account got hacked?
 
8:33 AM
@Neil No, it is what sells to that demographic
 
or are they just going to pretend that nothing happened?
 
@jalf True. I suppose you could also market snap-on bracelets to 60 year old men, because I'm sure there are some who would buy them.
 
sbi
@Neil Well, it might open them the other half of humanity as potential customers. having lived with a woman who liked to play, I can assure you that lots of what's on those packages is nauseatingly offending for that half.
 
@sbi Blimey (german is fine with me, and possibly with everyone since computer translations). I think they could have brought that news with a little more transparency then.
 
It doesn't hurt their margins enough to not have Lara Croft at the E3.
 
8:34 AM
Those fuzzy formulations clearly seem to be designed to 'cover up' the seriousness, IMO
 
@Neil Weren't you the one calling me arrogant not long ago? And now you're defending that EVERYONE should be treated as 14-year-old males, and if anyone are offended, or even feel that it might not cater for them, they're "60 year old males", and they're not gamers, and they have no business being at E3?
Wow.....
 
@sbi I'm not arguing the nature of what is tasteful or not. Simply making an observation of why it is the way it is.
 
I don't know what to say. other than perhaps you should go outside and talk to a woman or two. They exist, they're real, some of them, despite the best efforts of you and your kind, actually play games
 
I'm a 21 year old lonely male hardcore gamer, and even I'm turned off by booth babes
 
but they don't feel welcome at E3
 
8:35 AM
@Neil Yeah I echo the sentiment. I strongly dislike all of that, but there is no denying it works
 
@sehe Actually, I think that's quite inaccurate.
 
@DeadMG You missed a crucial bit of information there ;)
 
@jalf You're putting words into my mouth. I didn't say everyone should be treated as 14-year old males. It *is* this way, however, whether you like it or not.
 
the demographics of gaming have changed a lot in the last ten, hell, even five, years. Simple out-of-date market research could well be to blame.
 
@DeadMG Possibly. But I think I'm going to trust a (capitalist) gaming industry to make that assessment for me.
 
8:37 AM
@Neil the reason it "is the way it is" is because gaming is perceived as a hobby for 14-year-old males. Because that's what it was 20 years ago. And that attitude is making it really hard to expand beyond that demographic.
 
ouch. Last.fm, unsalted MD5, really?!
 
Today, like it or not, believe it or not, the "typical" gamer is not in the demographic that E3's booth babes appeal to
 
@KonradRudolph fuck me, that's bad
 
sbi
@Neil And I am disagreeing with that observation. An industry isn't just harvesting their audience, it's also making their audience. They are training all those 14yo boys to see tits, and they are dismissing all the other potential audiences. All those girls are lost to Sims and Farmville, when they could spend 30hrs/week in some online fantasy world. That is stupid.
2
 
@jalf I never said anything to the contrary. Maybe there's more money in it if they didn't. Hard to say though, isn't it?
 
8:37 AM
@sehe I'm certainly not.
 
Anyway, I’m busy changing a few passwords :D
 
@DeadMG That may be true, but the new audience might still respond to old cues: they might very well be conditioned to expecting that the 'hot new games' come in 'sexualized' packaging/marketing, just because that's what it used to be like
 
It has nothing to do with "what sells". It has everything to do with reactionary idiots who think that what worked 20 years ago, when gaming was a small niche thing for teenage geeks, is still the best way to market it
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Really? OMG.
 
@sbi According to Heise
 
8:39 AM
apart from anything else
E3 is simply not that big a deal anymore
 
Honestly, it's made painfully apparent by the existence of something like PAX. The biggest, hugest, most hyped gaming convention bans booth babes, and has done so from day one. E3 is trying to stick to the model they've stuck with for ages, it's outdated, and irrelevant
 
There is a balance between taking risks and optimizing turnover, in there
@DeadMG That's naive to say the least. If there's one thing you can trust, it is that capitalism will find ways to make money that work. I'm not talking optimum here, I'm talking about it works.
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph A website with millions of users In 2012 uses unsalted MD5 hash to "protect" its customers' passwords? Bah.
 
Diablo 3 shifts 6.1million copies on PC alone in the first week, I think it was, and there's like, 40k people at E3.
 
sbi
2 mins ago, by sbi
@Neil And I am disagreeing with that observation. An industry isn't just harvesting their audience, it's also making their audience. They are training all those 14yo boys to see tits, and they are dismissing all the other potential audiences. All those girls are lost to Sims and Farmville, when they could spend 30hrs/week in some online fantasy world. That is stupid.
 
8:40 AM
@sehe er, so how do you explain all the banks and other industries failing all the time?
Incompetence is a much stronger force than capitalism
 
@sehe They do... when averaged out over like, a thousand companies over a hundred years.
capitalism works, and works well- in the average case. Not every case, by far.
 
@sbi That's a splendid point. I can agree with that. Now let me think why I was pushed into that corner 'playing devil's advocate' again
 
just look at the disastrous private USA healthcare, for example.
 
@sbi I do think they market to all ages, just that the older age demographs get easily overshadowed by cg tits bouncing up and down in beach volleyball designed for horny 15-year-olds
 
@jalf And even that works. For them. Or they wouldn't
 
sbi
8:41 AM
@sehe No. If there's one thing sure about capitalism, it's that it always and unconditionally prefers short-term, profit over long-term investment. Building up your own target audience takes many years, reaping off the 14yo with their hard-ons takes a few months.
 
@sehe No, it works because our politicians were too incompetent to adequately prepare.
 
@sbi And what about focusing on short term discredits it as "doesn't work"?
 
IMO, every single one of those banks, and the people who recklessly lent to them just as surely as they recklessly borrowed, should have been left to collapse
 
Maybe they don't do it as much as they should, though it's hard to argue with the logic that using blatant sexual symbolism in their advertisements works. That makes any other marketing strategy seem less effective by comparison and hence not worthy of attempting.
 
@DeadMG So. You provided a reason 'why it works for them'. It is really irrelevant. You merely confirmed it works (for the wrong reasons, agreed)
 
8:43 AM
@Neil There's a big difference between "My gun looks like a giant penis" and gratuitous booth babes.
 
@DeadMG Wut
 
@sehe No, that's not any definition of "works". "Works" would mean "Does not currently owe huge sums of money to just about everybody".
 
sbi
@sehe The what? in "it works." What works is harvesting short-term profit. What doesn't work is appeal to 70% of the population. If you are among those 70% (that's a 70% chance, mind you!), you don't think the game industry works for you.
 
@DeadMG “people who lent to them” are just people having bank accounts
 
@KonradRudolph Depositors have special protection under our laws, at least, if not EU laws.
 
8:44 AM
@DeadMG Most games promoted by gratuitous booth babes have women in the games in sexual situations anyway
 
and the amounts are small compared to the amounts borrowed from Brazil, China, India, other Western banks
@Neil Well, that's a worthless generalization backed up by absolutely nothing.
 
@sbi Well the gaming industry obviously fails for me. I don't buy it. I don't like it. I hate the advertising. But all that is rather moot. The industry thrives. It works. For them
 
sbi
@Neil Sorry, but if E3 is fully of booth babes, then they are only marketing for male teenagers.
 
@DeadMG That doesn't really disprove my point either way.
 
@Neil No, it just means you don't have a point that I need to attempt to disprove.
 
8:46 AM
@DeadMG No, that doesn't mean "blantant sexual symbolism in their advertisements work" is wrong because "my gun looks like a giant penis" isn't the same thing as gratuitous booth babes.
 
@DeadMG Exactly. That’s why they weren’t just left to collapse, as you wanted
 
@sbi What do you say about other people (outside that demographic) 'subconscioiusly' responding to said signals (e.g. booth babes) as an indication about their product/content? They might hate the advertising language, but still use it to identify products/companies of interest.
 
@KonradRudolph No, when they collapse, depositors get their money back. Lenders do not.
 
@DeadMG apart from that, I agree with you. In fact, as a stock owner myself I am very much for letting stock owners pay for the restoration of, say, Greece’s economy
 
that does not prevent a collapse, it just means that depositors' deposits are guaranteed
 
sbi
8:47 AM
@sehe But does it work? If the game industry works (i.e., it's milking the max out of all their potential customers), wow then come that a total newcomer like Zynga rolls up the whole market (350million players per month!) and becomes a 1billion$ company within 2 years?
 
@sbi And the same with Angry Birds. They have a goddamn theme park now.
 
@sbi Suppose next year, they decided to have 50% less booth babes. If sales increase for those who had booth babes, well, that makes an obvious trend. And while I wish I could say otherwise, there are some who buy games for that reason, whether they realize it or not.
 
and stuff like The Sims.
 
Again, not saying that's the only market that exists, but the obvious trend makes deviating from that trend hard to justify.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Yup. And not one boob, yet they managed to reap billions of $ from the potential customers that the conventional gaming industry just forgot about. Sorry, but that's not my definition of "the industry works".
 
8:49 AM
@Neil What, the obvious trend of not-overtly-sexualized games making billions and billions of dollars?
 
@sbi Well. They do it better. A Lada car works. It is totally justified. Just that a Kia works better for the same money, doesn't really invalidate the first
 
@DeadMG No, the opposite. The obvious trend of overtly-sexualized games making billions and billions of dollars.
 
@Neil Actually, they don't.
 
@DeadMG Then logically there's no reason booth babes should exist, if sexuality plays no part in sales, right?
 
@Neil Incompetence?
out of date market research?
maybe those models have contracts to come back for more than one year?
 
8:51 AM
@DeadMG Meh, burden of proof is on you.
 
sbi
@Neil Name me one other game company that went from unknown to 1billion$ in two years with a single game.
:4040673 Can't? Well, then maybe it's not the money that makes them do what they do. Maybe it's just the momentum of their decade-old focus on 14yo males, which they are unable to shake despite others reaping in all the money from the rest of the demographic.
@sehe Yeah, of course there are some outside of the target audience. There always are. But there's no proof by anecdote.
 
To claim that successful gaming companies are clammering onto old marketing strategies because they can't think of a better strategy that works is a bit of a stretch. If it didn't work, why are they successful?
 
sbi
@sehe No. In the long term, if Lada doesn't have some advantage over Kia (like being cheaper, maybe), Lada will be driven out of the market. Just like Zynga pushed all the well-known players to make room for themselves in the game industry.
 
@sbi it's pointless to make a single game. since you have one, you immediately can start another
so in first years you produce some amount of bad games
then you have a decent codebase and experience to create a good one
 
sbi
@Neil But I am questioning whether they are successful! Look at any other big software market. Take, for example, operating systems, office software, developer tools. Can you imagine a totally unknown company publishing some product and become a 1 billion $ company within two years in any of those markets?
@Abyx Like, um, Farmville, and Angry Birds are "bad games"?
 
8:57 AM
@sbi All it takes is one game that sold better than another which was marketed with boobs to give faith to the idea that that helps sales.
Even if that's not the case, though in some small part it usually does
 
@sbi I told about big games, not that shit
 
@sbi It doesn't require a company to grow from nothingù
 
-1
Q: What's the real ”point” of pointers?

BrendanI've programmed in Java quite a bit, and have dabbled in C++ before. I've read about pointers in various C++ books, and done the various examples in books. I understand the pointer basics, but one thing has never been clear to me. What is the real world application of pointers? I mean, in what ...

found duplicate
 
@sbi Well, that's just confirmation of the fact that it works, in my book. It works, and has the consequences it has. It is being done, and that's how it works. I'm not saying it works well, it just works.
@sbi What, do you reckon, is the secret of Zynga's success? I fail to see the link with the boothbabes discussion
 
sbi
@Neil No, that's not all it takes. It also takes teaching your pavloved main audience to look at other features.
@Abyx We are not talking whether you and I like them, but dismissing Farmville, which has 250 million players a month as not being a "big game" just shows that you, like the companies that cater for your entertainment, have a rather big blind spot.
 
9:01 AM
Hmm. I'm going to stop discussing this because I'm really not defending anything. (Only trying to get people to be accept reality as a first step). But I fully lend my vote to sbi's message and I'd be happy if that part would get the focus:
23 mins ago, by sbi
@Neil And I am disagreeing with that observation. An industry isn't just harvesting their audience, it's also making their audience. They are training all those 14yo boys to see tits, and they are dismissing all the other potential audiences. All those girls are lost to Sims and Farmville, when they could spend 30hrs/week in some online fantasy world. That is stupid.
 
sbi
@sehe Their game appeals to the forgotten potential audience of the gaming industry. It's been played by girls and women, and by all kinds of people past 30. It's exactly those to which booth babes are unappealing, if not repelling.
And look, one of the biggest players in the conventional game industry is EA, and which one's are their biggest hits? I bet they make almost half of their money with Sims, which is almost exclusively played by females.
 
@sbi Mmm. I don't know which part of the audience I fit in then... Zynga doesn't attract me. At all. It looks like crappy online apps which I shun like the plague. I associate that with filth and privacy violations and pornification (the web) all the same. Perhaps I'm just older than my age
 
What is a booth babe?
 
Tooth paste, respelled
 
sbi
40 mins ago, by sbi
> So much of what I see here at E3 is aimed directly at the lizard hindbrain of a 13-year-old boy. But you have to be 18 to get into the show, and it's nominally for industry professionals. Perhaps someday we—men and women alike—can all be treated like the grown-ups we theoretically are, and be trusted to judge a game by its content... not its double-D cover. — Kate Cox
 
9:04 AM
Ok. Back to work
 
@sbi Right, but logically speaking, even if a new feature brought in new sales, there's always that little voice in the back of the minds of the marketers which says, "If we had marketed towards 13yos, could we have sold more?"
 
@Neil That's "incompetence".
 
@DeadMG Not saying I like it, but that's clearly the reality of it or we wouldn't be having this argument
 
sbi
@sehe None of that appeals to me either. I spend a few amused hours with Angry Birds, but it became stale really fast. I haven't even looked at Farmville and I don't think I will. But I have spent many nights playing Diablo with a woman, and I have to agree with her that all those tits and sparse clothing are hilarious and considerably spoil the fun.
 
@Neil Uh, not really. Considering the vast successes of those who have more flexible marketing strategies...
@sbi Which one? I don't recall any of them as being particularly titful.
 
9:08 AM
@sbi Ok, so it's a woman working at a games conference.
 
@sbi I can't even imagine what it's like. I might need to try a game like that just in order to form an opinion. Sounds like homework
 
@DeadMG If the whole argument started from "Why do they have to market towards 13yos so much?"...
 
I don't think so
 
sbi
@Neil Are there even 250 million 13yo world-wide who can pay for conventional games?
 
@Neil Then the only drawable conclusion is "Marketers think that 13yos is the target market", not that "It is not incompetent to market every single game towards 13yos".
 
9:09 AM
@sbi No.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow It relates to something I posted earlier. Start reading here.
 
grr, why did grooveshark empty one of my saved playlists?
 
@DeadMG Then we're in agreement.
 
@jaffa Let me guess... "I'm a good boy"? Please stop this. On behalf of myself (and likely others) I'm willing to decide this behaviour is annoying, and I'm ready to flag it should it happen again. Thank you very much for your attention.
 
Ok
 
9:10 AM
@sehe +1, it's as annoying as your dots (too lazy to find a link). one more edit
 
By the way, I finally broke, I just had to write an answer on this code review question about the Maybe monad implementation in Java:
0
A: Is my Scala Option conversion to Java correct?

Konrad RudolphYour code essentially does one thing: It replaces a NullPointerException with an UnsupportedOperationException (and even that only in some cases). This is simply not a useful semantic. It’s telling that this simple switch of one exception for another requires, in your code, an interface a st...

 
@sehe Some of that shit is nastay.
 
 
sbi
@Neil Well, then they could not have gotten as many of them as Farmville has. Big fail, really.
1 message moved to bin
 
Can anyone suggest me some c,c++ programming competition websites?
 
9:11 AM
@sbi All I know about Farmville is that their advertisements play loud annoying music and I grow to loathe sites which host them.
 
@Neil Well, let me tell you something: The people who make Farmville and The Sims and Angry Birds are fucking rich.
 
Please, anyone?
 
@jaffa There's codegolf.stackexchange.com, though that's for any language, and it's not so much of a competition as it is challenges.
 
way more than the average triple A game developer
 
sbi
@Neil See, I don't even know that much. I might not have been on fb in months, and I certainly never played anything there. But, you yourself brought up that sales excuse bad games and bad marketing.
 
9:13 AM
the only game which brings in that much money is World of Warcraft.
 
@Neil Thank you :)
 
@DeadMG Good for them.
 
@Neil No, good for anyone who wants to make money.
 
@sbi Swell idea. Why didn't I even think of that. Oh well, somehow my politeness requires me to give advance warning. But I made sure this was fairly clear warning, so I don't feel guilty when acting promptly on repeat :)
 
@DeadMG And what is the target demograph for Farmville, Sims, and Angry Birds in your opinion?
 
9:14 AM
@jaffa Are you trying to say/ask something? I must have missed the question
 
sbi
Either you stop that random starring, @jaffa, or I'll have you flagged right now.
 
@Neil But pastebin is not allowed in our work place :(
 
@Neil Pretty sure that The Sims, at least, is like 75% female.
 
@Neil everyone and everything
 
9:14 AM
they're generic casual games- not tit fests
 
sbi
@DeadMG 90%
 
@sbi Huh. I don't even see that
 
@DeadMG True, in fact fortunately it's starting to change.
 
sbi
@sehe That's because I remove those stars as fast as they crop up.
 
@sbi He gave me link of a useful website, so I starred it. Sorry if I did anything wrong
 
9:15 AM
@Abyx Which is an awesome idea, but unfortunately they confused “simple” with “stupid and wrong”
 
sbi
@jaffa There were half a dozen others before that.
 
@sehe I was asking for a good websites for programming competitions
@sbi sorry for that, I removed them, already
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph And that turned an awesome idea into an awkward one.
 
@sbi Can you see who stars? We've had that happen before, and then we attributed it to John Smith. jaffa might just be related to the incident, or it might not be jaffa starring. Lemme look
@jaffa Ok. Indeed hadn't seen that question. Carry on :)
 
sbi
@sehe The grumpy old man knows who misbehaves. You guys better be aware of that.
1 message moved to bin
 
9:17 AM
@sbi That was inevitable :)
@sbi Hey. I think I share the talent.
 
sbi
@sehe I share my talents with nobody!
 
@sbi not this one. It was related to trick with copy-and-remove performed by @sehe
 
@sehe @sbi are gods _/_
 
@Neil succesful? They're being marginalized. Farmville and Angry Birds passed them by. So did the whole indie game thing. EA and Activision are relying on 2-3 core franchises to make them profitable. Other publishers are regularly going broke. It is not a successful business model. They are stuck in the past, they don't understand their own demographic
 
@sbi That's the thing. It's not yours. You already shared the talent, which is an independent notion :)
 
sbi
9:19 AM
@Abyx Sorry @Abyx, but I couldn't hold back, no matter how hard I tried. :(
 
them gods be crazy …
 
any other programming website suggestions?
 
@Abyx Yeah, I do that sometimes. It isn't on purpose: I sometimes accidentally overwrite an older message instead of posting a new one. I'll repost as new, deleting the clobbered one just to make sure it doesn't go unnoticed as an edit
 
@jalf Activision has one. Acti/Blizz is still milking all of Blizzard's IPs. But even World of Warcraft's time is going, IMO, they haven't been able to hold their subscribers for a long time now.
 
@sbi just don't get an addiction to binning messages
 
9:20 AM
@jaffa programmers.SE, google.
@Abyx I can assure you, the procedure is so clumsy, there isn't the tiniest chance of it becoming addictive. It is filled with pain
 
how google?
 
@DeadMG They have/had Guitar Hero too, and one or two others that I didn't really care about. But been pretty much run into the ground by now
so yeah, they basically have Blizzard left
 
@jalf In fact it seems things are changing, since as you say, it's perhaps not as successful as it once was.
 
@sehe oh... don't tell me @sbi can be a masochist
 
sbi
Really, what is it you want, @jaffa? You come here and instantly try to wreak havoc, thinly veiling this by asking about "programming websites" in the chat of the best one there is. What do you really want? And do you think we will let you have it?
 
9:22 AM
and WoW was down to 10m subscribers last I checked. Used to be 14'ish
 
Give me good websites, I'm out of here
Thank you
 
sbi
@jalf 10million? A mere 25th of Farmville.
 
@sbi They can turn a lot more of that into revenue, though.
 
@jaffa c c++ challenges, and on that note, I plonk you good day!
 
most Farmville players never buy anything or hardly ever buy anything, but every WoW sub pays plenty of money
 
sbi
9:23 AM
@jaffa No, it doesn't work this way. We're not your personal support team. Either you behave, or you are out without getting anything but a kick in the groin.
 
Ok, thanks. @sehe I don't know people still use opera!
 
@DeadMG Difference is that Farmville is casual while WoW is for hardcore gamers.
 
Sorry, but did I abuse anyone?
 
@sbi Perhaps it is worth pointing out what part of the behaviour is rubbing you/me the wrong way. I reckon it is just sloppy 'forum speak' that causes most of the friction. It comes across as impatient and unmannered, unappreciative
 
9:25 AM
@Neil The difference is that Farmville was dirt cheap and instantaneous to make, and makes as much money.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Yeah, of course, I know that. The difference is that Farmville is building up a potential audience for reaping in the next decade, while Blizzard is reaping the last decade worth of audience.
 
@sbi Very true.
 
@jaffa Who are you and why do you keep on pinging me every day
 
sbi
@sehe What's rubbing me is, as I said, him starting to wreak havoc the instant he gets here, and then veiling this with a stupid question.
 
@DeadMG I fail to see what that has to do with users purchasing things in-game
 
sbi
9:26 AM
@Cicada He's an idiot if he really does this. Plonk him and be rid of him.
 
Not every day but I get random pings for no apparent reason
in bin, 19 mins ago, by jaffa
@Cicada
 
@Neil Nothing. I was merely saying that the raw number of players isn't so important as the amount of profit made.
 
@Cicada what are looking for in bin?
 
sbi
@Cicada No need to show us. Who do you think binned that? And why do you think we're warning him to behave?
 
@Abyx I got a ping
 
9:28 AM
@DeadMG True
 
@sbi That ought to clarify
 
@jaffa Fantastic baby
 
@Cicada from the bin? and you looked into it? I hope you don't do such things IRL
 
@Cicada Not like it didn't happen before, same person. It was my immediate reply:
18 mins ago, by sehe
@jaffa Let me guess... "I'm a good boy"? Please stop this. On behalf of myself (and likely others) I'm willing to decide this behaviour is annoying, and I'm ready to flag it should it happen again. Thank you very much for your attention.
 
sbi
:4041334 That's it. I called down the mods on you. I hope you'll be suspended for a couple of months.
 
9:29 AM
@Abyx It pinged me right now. And it said it was from the Lounge. When I clicked it was in the bin.
 
I'm willing to give props for blunt honesty there
 
@Cicada sad story... someone tricked you
 
@Cicada The plink is probably by id, and since it doesn't change on move, it will just stay in your inbox, with the original source
 
No trick at all, getting randomly pinged with no reason is pointless
Yes @sehe I guessed so
 
@Cicada Technically, what's the difference between getting randomly pinged and being in Lounge<C++>, I mean seriously
 
9:31 AM
@Cicada So I was right with 'on behalf of myself (and likely others)` - hehe
@Neil She wasn't here. Irrelevant
 
@sehe Yes indeed!
 
You know you've played minecraft too much when it gets dark outside, and you think about heading inside before the zombies come out
 
For the @CatPlusPlus:
 
Happened to me yesterday, in fact
 
Ouch
 
9:35 AM
@jalf: you still around?
 
yup?
 
wanted to ask you about the Standard container interfaces
do you think that functions like push_back really merit their own functionality over something like insert(back(), value)?
 
it's the performance guarantees, I thought
 
I've been coding my own container requirements for Wide, and I'm down to a mere eight member functions- vastly less than the C++ Containers
 
Umm, in which context? I'd assume that the reason it exists in the C++ standard is that (1) std::queue doesn't have a general-purpose insert, and the same could be true for other containers/adaptors. And (2) because they have different performance guarantees
 
@jalf Well, I was mostly looking for any context in which they were justified.
 
No hablo deutche Oh, now I can read it. I sure learned it fast!
 
that's just a design decisions for the STL, of course, but they pretty consistently let the API be guided by algorithmic complexity. Bidirectional iterators don't have an operator+ even though it coudl be easily written, because it wouldn't conform to the algorithmic complexity that op+ otherwise guarantees. And likewise, push_back deserves (from a STL point of view) to be a separate functino because it offers different complexity guarantees
 
as far as I know, insert(end(), val) has the same complexity guarantees as push_back().
 
only on containers that provide push_back()
 
9:40 AM
or, in another way of putting it, I could simply define it that way and skip push_back.
 
@KonradRudolph hah, interesting
@DeadMG sure. But how would you handle queues then?
 
@jalf Right now, I don't even have one. But if I did, I wouldn't class it as a container- I'd probably implement it as a separate class and then the queue can have push_back separately.
 
@KonradRudolph so... it's not a dumb virus.
 
sbi
> There are years when it just isn't worth getting out of bed. — sbi
 
@sehe AFAIK, it's the only virus to have deliberately cleaned itself up like that.
 
9:42 AM
@sbi Oblomov again. Repost
 
so, in other news, I can make Firefox run out of memory and crash :)
 
lol
 
@sbi I do wonder whether you actually wrote something to do the lean-boxing for you?
 
sbi
@sehe Um, did we have that before? And who's Oblomov? Bear with me, I'm old.
 
@sehe It’s anything but! It’s been operational for almost five years before being discovered
 
9:43 AM
@DeadMG btw, push_back can have an optimized implementation, it could not deal with iterator construction, etc
 
@KonradRudolph Discoverers should have been more discrete
 
Jun 3 at 22:48, by sehe
Oblomov () is the best known novel by Russian writer Ivan Goncharov, first published in 1859. Oblomov is also the central character of the novel, often seen as the ultimate incarnation of the superfluous man, a symbolic character in 19th-century Russian literature. Oblomov was compared to Shakespeare's Hamlet as answering 'No!' to the question "To be or not to be?" Oblomov is a young, generous nobleman who seems incapable of making important decisions or undertaking any significant actions. Throughout the novel he rarely leaves his room or bed and famously fails to leave his bed for the...
 
@Abyx Elliding that kind of thing is the job of the automated optimizer.
 
@Cicada Zing
 
@Cicada How? They are scientists, they need to publish in order for science to work
 
sbi
9:44 AM
@sehe I wish I had something. No, the easiest it to copy the twitter URL, and then copy the text here.
 
@KonradRudolph They should have collected more data
And then publish
 
@DeadMG if you have a list and use push_front then replace it with vector your code will fail to compile; if you just used insert(begin(), ) you wouldn't know why your performance is shot
 
@DeadMG yep, but then it affects compilation time
 
@Abyx Fractionally, maybe.
@ecatmur List doesn't have push_front either. Also, I didn't create a vector class, just deque.
 
@sbi I might bake myself a feature for such things. Twitter isn't a target for me, though.
 
sbi
9:45 AM
Jun 3 at 22:48, by sbi
@sehe Never read it. No, it's mine, actually. At least I'd like to think so.
 
@sbi Also, apparently there are weeks just not worth remembering.
 
@Cicada OK, true … I guess they thought they’d collected enough
 
@sbi Yeah. So?
 
sbi
@sehe Only weeks? You are way to young. I have mothballed years of memory. (Among them the info where I mothballed them.)
I know what your point was, @sehe.
 
@sbi Ok. Then just "Huh!?". What is the point repeating the message you quoted, then?
 
sbi
9:48 AM
@sehe I was quoting my reply to the message you quoted. :)
 
@sbi That doesn't even remotely answer the question I had about that
 
@DeadMG it does too. Also forward_listdoesn't even have insert but it has push_front
 
@ecatmur ... I'm creating my own containers. That's the context.
 
@DeadMG but you will have to have forward list in std lib.
 
@Abyx No, I don't.
 
9:56 AM
@DeadMG then it'll be very poor std lib
 
@Abyx No, it'll just not be the C++ Standard lib, which is fine because this isn't going to be written in C++.
actually, I also dropped the multimap and multiset classes
do those even have a use?
 
@DeadMG so, there will be another boost libraries set for your language?
@DeadMG of course
 
@Abyx Actually, I intend on simply interfacing with the existing ones.
 

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