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12:00 AM
Ok, the F key no works.
 
xD
 
ABCEGHIJKLMNOPQRSTVWXYZ
 
Oh man, have you seen the thousand-dollar LED keyboard that ThinkGeek has?
 
Lemme see: I get 1) more noise; 2) harder to type; 3) heavier; 4) lasts longer (how much really? I don't need it to last 100 years); 5) can hold both Shifts together.
 
@Maxpm Aren't they the ones that did the Unicorn Meat thing?
 
12:01 AM
I think so.
 
To be honest, this mechanical keyboard thing kinda sounds like a scam.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not for gamers where 5+ keys can be pressed
 
Mechanical keyboards are kind of overpriced, yeah.
They're for hipsters.
 
12:03 AM
@Maxpm Intense gamers.
 
@Drise I use my laptop keyboard for gaming. I never ever have to move my hands.
The keyboard itself is compact, the keys are really thin so it feels more responsive, and the touchpad is right there.
 
@Maxpm We are talking WoW intensity levels
 
I played WoW for six months or so. The problem with it is that you think you're having fun until you stop playing.
 
robot, you're still here? :P
 
lol
 
12:06 AM
@Drise Oh, that might be a real advantage. I wonder why no one mentions it ever and instead focus on the noise or pressing both Shifts.
@DeadMG No. What's up?
@Maxpm Thinking you're having fun is indistinguishable from having fun.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, its totally rediculous, I agree.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes IDE feature idea: commit on each successful build?
or you can set it to remind you every X minutes to commit
 
Oh, I wouldn't.
 
@DeadMG Eww.
 
I'd find it helpful, anyway
but maybe that's just me
 
12:08 AM
That sounds like it would get too intrusive.
 
Green build != Commitable success
 
When debugging you successfully build very often.
 
true true
 
If an IDE supported that, I would disable it.
 
"It looks like you haven't committed. Would you like some help?
3
 
12:09 AM
If an IDE supports that, I wouldn't use that IDE.
HAHAHAHA
 
oh dearie
OK, OK, I get it
 
not such a popular idea
 
xD
 
Nothing like comparing something to Clippy to get the idea across.
 
12:10 AM
No need to bring in Microsoft, guys, gosh.
 
right
so
important things for a binary interface function: import name, calling convention, argument types, names, and defaults, and exception types
 
@DeadMG Maybe something that reminded after so long idling.
 
I hate it when I know this is so not going to compile and I'm right.
 
binary interface type: size, alignment, and public member variables&functions
that ought to do it
 
Also, why the fuck is autowrite off? Letting me compile with unsaved changes is torture!
Is it bad if a layout map for a 14-tuple only maps 13 elements?
 
12:21 AM
uh, yes
 
It's the empty object optimization. The object is empty.
 
didn't consider EBO
as he did not specify that the missing element has 0 size
 
@DeadMG Nah, there are no empties.
I could always say you shouldn't be using 14-tuples in the first place, but then you'd complain about your pair only having one usable element.
 
well
if it only applies to tuples of 14 length
 
But I can see 14-tuples coming up actually.
 
12:26 AM
hmm
I added some ABI trickery so that you can import a function of the form ret func(X*, ...) as a member function x->func(...);
 
just realized that, as a side effect, also includes all the C functions specified that way
 
@DeadMG You think that's good or bad?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes x := someshit(); x->func(...);
@RMartinhoFernandes I think it's probably a good thing.
 
@DeadMG I thought you had taken -> out and used . everywhere.
 
12:28 AM
no, I took out ::.
 
you have to have ->, else how smart pointers?
cutting :: is fine, because name lookup can easily reveal if you want to lookup into a module or a variable
 
Andrei makes all smart pointer "members" free functions. You don't do sp.get(), but get(sp).
That works fine if you could overload ..
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Having to do sp.get().shit()? dunno about that
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, in Wide, you kinda can.
it's just messy for any object which also needs to exist in it's own right and have it's own members- mostly just good for proxy objects
 
@DeadMG No, instead of a smart_ptr<T>::get() const, he uses a get(smart_ptr<T>const&)
 
12:31 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Point's the same- you're DRY violating nasty-time here calling get(sp) every time.
 
Supposedly, it's to avoid confusing over whether you're calling something on the pointer or the pointee.
 
-> and . do that just fine, IMO.
 
@DeadMG Oh, no, you don't call get everytime. It overloads ->.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That doesn't really qualify as taking -> out, does it? :P
 
@DeadMG No, because C++ doesn't allow it. But if you could, overloading . instead would work fine.
 
12:33 AM
well, I can see an argument that there's nothing wrong with that
I did already provide for other kinds of proxy objects, and I guess that you could implement it in such a way in Wide, if you wanted to.
 
-> is silly.
 
How surprising of you to say that.
 
Strictly speaking it's possible to achieve what is desired here without having to specify something as iffy as overloading .. E.g. a syntax to specify that *this may act as proxy to such and such object, which brings the members of the type of that object in scope (and calls are made using that object).
 
@LucDanton Which is exactly what I did.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It is. :(
 
12:36 AM
I added a new category of cast- as well as explicit and implicit, there is automatic, which effectively means that the compiler always performs the conversion before looking up any members
and it also behaves as an instance of that type for the purpose of overloading, type deduction, etc
 
Btw, can you force a user to store a return value? Or at least allow an object to detect when it is being discarded?
 
in C++ or Wide?
 
well, you could detect at run-time
I don't know about compile-time
probably not for arbitrary types, but you might be able to do it at compile-time for types which have the functionality built in
didn't really think about such a thing
why would you want it?
 
Can't quite remember it right now. I know it was something related to proxies.
 
12:39 AM
well
I would expect that "at run-time" would be fine, and the optimizer could take care of the situations where it's statically provable that the return value was indeed used for something
 
Dec 14 '11 at 21:57, by Alf P. Steinbach
"Allow a class to define operator void() as a member, with the notion that it would be called any time a value of that type is discarded, such as the expression in an expression-statement or the left operand of a comma operator. For example, that would allow the I/O library to flush an output file exactly once in an expression of the form

std::cout << "x = " << x << "\n";"
 
you can already do that with expression templates
 
yes
 
Oh, you can.
Well, then another question comes up.
Can you prevent the user from taking a reference to the expression tree object?
 
12:41 AM
in fact, I demonstrated exactly such a thing when someone was telling me that streams were so slow because they involve repeated concatenation
@RMartinhoFernandes Not in C++, but in Wide, the automatic cast will always kick in.
 
that reminds me
I need to create a spec section on casts
also, I think I may have failed to specify grammar for casts
 
Language design sounds fun.
 
Have you thought of multimethods?
 
you mean multiple dispatch virtual function thingies?
 
12:46 AM
(I'm throwing around random features that are coming to mind)
@DeadMG Yeah.
 
nah
I don't really see the need
 
Textbook example is collisions.
 
IMO double dispatch in C++ works fine
I just don't see any real use cases of multi-methods where double dispatch is too much effort
especially considering that, in Wide, you could generate the double dispatch methods automatically
 
It's not doublemethod though, it's multi method.
 
I've never seen anybody do more than two.
or propose a use case where that would be helpful
besides, in order to justify a language feature, I'd have to first be satisfied that it's not doable as a library- and with Wide's boss metafunctions and mutable types, I'm not actually very convinced in that regard
 
12:53 AM
Three-way collisions!
 
If you have a FFI then everything that a language (that can work with that FFI) has is available as a library.
 
I don't think the C interface can cope with metafunctions automatically generating multi-dispatch thunks :P
 
"a FFI" or "an FFI"?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "an".
lols, all my C++ habits
nearly just wrote a Wide example with int main()
 
What is it instead?
 
12:56 AM
just main()
 
class Main { public static void main(String[] args) {} }?
:P
 
lol no
just main(). I've been thinking about simply adding a function to get the command line args, instead of passing them to main.
but even if I did, it would be main(Deque(String) args).
 
What about a range instead?
 
I was just thinking that myself
 
I thought it first!
 
12:58 AM
I mean, I could perfectly well say main(args) and say "suck my type deduction".
habits, I'm used to C++
aaaargh fuckeries, I just wrote static_cast<int>(t());
should have realized when my HTML editor was like, "WTF is this tag <int>", since Wide has no syntax like that
 
Typing C++ on blog comments is a major pain because of that.
 
obtw
I decided to drop some of that ranged integer stuff
I figure that it's more effort than it's worth in the general case
I'll probably just stick with the usual 8-64bit integral range
 
ARArghg. Why can't I write a damn metafunction to reverse my map.
 
reverse the map or reverse the result?
 
Reverse the map. Instead of mapping a->b, mapping b->a.
 
1:06 AM
ah k
 
I keep getting the wrong logic.
I managed to get a->b again, a->a, and something else entirely which I have no idea what it was.
 
fuuuuu
 
I was about to go specify something else, and forgot what it was
oh, no, wait, that's OK, it doesn't need to exist
you know
C++ has like, 99999 type traits, and so far I've got a grand total of 3.
 
Anyone in here know anything about linker errors related to frameworks on OS X?
 
1:14 AM
Dammit, identity again.
I have 9-line identity metafunction. I'm awesome.
I need to sleep to think straight, but I can't give up.
 
uh, shouldn't it be like, one line?
 
@DeadMG It was not intended to be an identity.
 
lol
AAARGH
missed 45 minutes of Stephano vs Polt
 
Oh, SC game.
 
hmm
maybe, instead, my brother was a total noob and got the days mixed up and it's actually tomorrow
whew
 
1:19 AM
Waking up at 3:18am feels so strange.
 
Only the first few times.
 
Oh yeah, it's getting late.
I could always stay awake and caffeine my way through the day.
 
Why do robots even sleep?
 
I know it's a very bad plan and will fail badly, but somehow I still consider it. I'll never get this.
 
Bad ideas are the best ideas.
 
1:22 AM
I fell asleep at 7 am today and I woke up at 2 pm.
 
We will never learn and we will continue to do this.
 
@RadekSlupik I think waking up at sunset is the most jarring.
 
Java is jarring.
 
Btw, anyone knows how to shut up scons about this: "scons: warning: No version of Visual Studio compiler found - C/C++ compilers most likely not set correctly"
 
I couldn't fall asleep yesterday because everyone in the house was being noisy.
So I slept in bursts, from 5 to 16.
 
1:24 AM
about 8 to 18 here
 
It's entertaining to look at these render times from technical papers... For example, bidirectional path tracing shoved into the raster. stage... They call it a "realtime" technique with an average of ~40ms per frame. And that's being generous.
 
@CatPlusPlus You suck. When I sleep, I sleep.
That's a big problem though. I can't set up an alarm clock and know that it will wake me up.
 
Me too. The problem is with those times I don't sleep.
 
@DomagojPandža 25FPS is playable... if not exactly perfection. You could probably get some extra milage out of it if you really needed to- the technical papers never implement the absolutely most optimized version possible ever
 
Whether 25FPS is playable, depends on a game.
 
1:26 AM
Indeed, they do stupid things. But it was generous - mostly it's around 50-70ms on an HD6990 which is still the most powerful graphics hardware available (even though there's 690 and 7970)
 
@ScottW More often than not, my alarm clock wakes up my flatmates, and then they end up waking me up to shut it off.
 
yeah, that's not what I would call real time
 
I don't wake up if the fire alarm goes off. If there ever is fire while I'm sleeping, I'm literally screwed to death.
 
At least you won't be bothered.
Well, until you catch fire, that is.
 
@ScottW When I lived alone for a few months, I went to bed early (like ~21) so I would be awake in time to go to work.
 
1:28 AM
lol
 
clang++ ...... -L/dir -F/dir -framework QtV8 ... /dir/QtV8.framework exists == true. ld: framework not found QtV8... grr
 
One of us.
I should write some servers in Haskell.
 
I should write some bug trackers in Ruby.
 
Or you could do something fun instead.
 
1:31 AM
It's already fun.
 
What's fun is writing web applications in C++.
That's something you never hear about...
 
That's just silly.
That's like writing video games in PHP.
 
6 months ago I'd have said the same, but with the right tools it's actually quite a nice experience
 
Only old people say "video games".
2
 
I'm old.
 
1:33 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Exactly what I said
 
You're not old enough to use that phrase.
 
Number of fucks given was, is, and will be zero.
 
    template <typename Tuple>
    struct reverse_map : identity<Tuple> {};
    // <snip> more irrelevant code
    // and why was wondering why this crap was behaving like an identity function
 
My room features curtains, which block light so I can sleep better and longer. Therefore, I waste more time.
 
Nothing like tiny little energy packets to brighten up my day.
 
1:41 AM
There's no caffeine in the house. I'm doomed.
 
@DomagojPandža You mean, like, a sugar packet or something?
 
Also applicable. But photons, literal brightening. :Đ
Damn, I need to watch myself some Futurama.
 
I torrented the lot and watched every episode in about 1 day flat
I have a habit of doing that
so irritating
 
Fascinating.
 
1:44 AM
Yeah, me too. I hate myself for that. Instead of enjoying it, I get quickly attached to the characters and rush to the end only to embrace that stupid feeling of semi-depression, sorrow and sadness.
 
my local supermarket stopped stocking ready meals in the normal size and now you can only buy slightly bigger versions (which are too big for me alone) for too much money
 
@DeadMG You skip parts!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not the first time. How would I know what parts to skip?
 
@DeadMG Make two meals out of each?
 
@DomagojPandža Exactly. You get to the end and you're like "BUT WHAT HAPPENS NOW?!"
@RMartinhoFernandes You can't re-freeze them and you can't split up a single frozen thing into two frozen things, because you'd need a chainsaw.
 
1:45 AM
The solution seems obvious to me. Buy a chainsaw!
 
lol
 
A chainsaw can solve so many problems.
0
Q: Add up the different way to add and subtract and array of number to equal a targer number

Timothy MassingI need to make a function to take in an array of numbers, and a target number and return how many different way you can add or subtract those numbers to get the target number. ie. Values = 2, 4, 6, 8 Target = 12 2 + 4 + 6 = 12, 4 + 8 = 12, 6 + 8 - 2 = 12, 2 - 4 + 6 + 8 = 12, Return 4 I'm ...

Gosh, what is that title.
 
"Add up the different way"
 
wtf, who downvoted me? it's quite accurate
 
There, 8 points for Gryffindor. :Đ
 
1:53 AM
@DeadMG Are you sure?
He's not asking for the solutions, only the number of them.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
Several NP-complete problems have similar variants that are not NP-complete.
 
enumerating all the solutions, instead of just one of them, and including subtraction as well, is only going to make it harder.
 
@DeadMG But he's not asking for an enumeration, only a count.
 
which requires an enumeration
the decision problem is re-statable as if(count == 0).
the only way to count them is to enumerate them- there's no other known algorithm
else you could solve the primary problem in P-time
 
1:55 AM
Ok, that might be true.
 
in fact, I reckon that it might be in EXPTIME or whatever one of those harder classes is
since you would have to enumerate them all again to know whether a given answer was correct or not
and I'm pretty sure that NP problems are NP to solve, but P to verify solutions.
 
Yes, that's by definition.
 
Is the order in which frameworks are specified to the linker, ever relevant?
i.e. -framework A -framework B vs -framework B -framework A ?
 
It shouldn't be. Only if the compiler is retarded.
 
@JakePetroules Dunno about these "framework" things that Apple uses, but it does matter for regular libraries.
@DomagojPandža Happens way too often :(
I never know what the correct order is, so I just brute force it.
 
1:58 AM
Qt5 is being annoying. It keeps claiming QtV8 framework was not found but -F and -L specify a path to a directory where it DOES exist
 
user406009
Wasn't the order for gcc supposed to be: CthatDependsB BthatDependsA A ?
 
No idea. For me it's "the first one that works".
 
In a beautiful, imaginary world, the system ought to see... Oh, there's this shit I can't really find right now, let's wait a bit and see if the other stuff the programmer specified contains the very thing I'm looking for now. Nah, nah. Let's be a cunt. "ERROR 209ISUCK: Dependencies failure."
 
lol
 
Hahaha
 
2:02 AM
If only the error message was "dependencies failure."...
You're being way too optimistic.
 
Display error messages in base 64
 
> error: template parameter 'class Tuple'
This is mighty helpful. Thank you GCC.
 
Compilers are so insightful.
 
Clang's error messages seem to be more helpful than GCC's sometimes
wow... -l/absolute/path/to/qtv8_library ... library not found!
why? it's. right. there.
 
-l doesn't do absolute paths.
 
2:05 AM
Just realized that
 
@Luc: here's one more instance where -Wfatal-errors sucks for GCC...
 
Need more coffee
 
error: template parameter 'class Tuple'
error: redeclared here as 'class ... T'
That is two errors, somehow.
 
It just splits by \n and counts based on the number of lines doesn't it?
 
The way it seems to go nowadays, compilers will just:

error: Something. Find it yourself.
A challenge for the programmer: See if you can find it.
I know what it is, do you?
 
2:07 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Did you really encounter such a case using -Wfatal-errors? ISTR that I got those errors with no issue when using the flag.
 
@LucDanton Just now.
 
error: lol, rtfm man
 
user406009
Was clang integrated into Codeblocks yet?
 
4.7 release.
 
Ok this is wacked... it can't find QtV8 as a framework but linking to the library itself works fine.
 
2:11 AM
Out of all the space in a damn pdf, I manage to click on a linked reference. TWICE.
And it's not even colored, plain text. And bam, I'm down at the bottom of the paper.
 
I got it! It compiles again!
Fails 14 assertions, but compiles. Fuck yeah.
 
14 asserts down? :Đ
 
What are you compiling?
 
A function that concatenates several tuples into a single tuple with optimal layout.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes If your tuple has a conversion function to std::tuple you can convert to that, use std::tuple_cat, then convert to tuple.
 
2:17 AM
std::tuple_cat doesn't seem to handle std::array or other tuple-like thingies.
Mine does.
Kinda regret deciding that now.
Anyway, it's the conversion part that is borken.
Wait.
I can't believe I forgot this.
 
Tuple cat? That sounds horrifying.
 
Now I know why the layout map was reversed. Because I need it both ways.
 
What, since when did LESS variables become NOT constants...
 
Woo! I finished that component that I spent, like, a week pondering over architecture for.
 
At least you get offline pondering. Later you can just draft it and hope for the best.
 
2:28 AM
> [Testing completed. All tests passed (711 assertions in 37 test cases)]
I can go to sleep!
2
 
:D
 
I love shooting rays in random directions on the unit hemisphere.
I had lots of practice on the toilet.
 
Oh God.
xD
 
Why did I spend two days debugging this crap? I was unlucky enough to, for 90% of the tests, pick a tuple where the layout map was the inverse of itself, so everything worked fine and the bug didn't manifest.
Lesson learned: don't put too much trust in simple tests.
 
Hardcore tests are always the best. They're painful, but honest.
Simple tests say what you desire most to hear.
 
2:34 AM
Now I have 559 lines of pure awesome.
 
lol
night night robot, finally
 
It's too late to go to sleep now :S
I need to be awake early.
 
Too little, too late.
 
xD
You should write me some sample Brainfuck programs to test.
 
Write a Fibonacci generator.
Then golf it.
 
2:38 AM
by the way
 
Well, a derivative of Brainfuck. // comments are supported, every open bracket is matched with exactly one close bracket, loops can be nested and unrecognized characters are illegal.
 
been thinking about a new algorithm for subset sum
someone care to discuss it's complexity?
 
@Maxpm The matching thing already exists in bra*nfuck, and loops can already be nested.
So, all you really changed was make comments illegal and add a different syntax for them.
@DeadMG Sorry, not really brainy enough for that right now.
 
oh well
Domagoj?
 
I'd love to, but figuring out how to formulate a more distinct prob. density function has currently got me preoccupied. I'd sure like to see what you've come up with if you have the will to write it out. :D
 
2:42 AM
lol
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Really? Huh. My mistake, then.
 
It's so much easier when there's no static information involved, 1/2pi and randomize the shit out of everything.
 
don't most people just use Perlin noise for randomizing shit?
 
Not for this purpose, it's basically choosing the initial directions in which to shoot rays to setup the basis for the GI solver ( Monte Carlo approx. approach, stochastic systems are teh future for now )
 
lol
 
2:46 AM
I used to hate the idea of using probability and "trusting" that it will converge close to the solution as the number of trials increases, but I learned to live with it.
 
Hm.
 
because some mathematical numeric methods do converge really, really well
like Newton-Raphson
 
Does wonders for the general rendering equation which is an ugly integral over a hemisphere.
 
Oh fuck. Clang's SFINAEing is gone bananas again.
Why did I even update?
 
lol
 
2:53 AM
is there a way to pass member function pointer to a c function that expects c function pointer?
 
Not directly.
Make a normal function.
 
Better a normal func. than a static one.
Agreed.
But, I must ask, why C?
 
$5 says it's for the ABI.
 
@Maxpm Nah, probably to call some library.
 
@PrivateVoid you can pass pointer to pointer to member function uhm, no
 
2:56 AM
Which buys you absolutely nothing.
 
well... with some assembly magic, you can wrap functor into a function
 
No magic or assembly required. :Đ
 
Anything that starts with "with some assembly magic" is bound to be disastrous.
 
You need a thunk.
 

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