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6:00 AM
@DeadMG it doesn't have to copy or move objects to the new space, never invalidates references/pointers/iterators to the data, and still maintains contiguous addressing.
 
@JerryCoffin Then why can't it be done by realloc?
that seems to fit realloc's guarantees just fine
 
So much pi.
 
realloc may reallocate and invalidate pointers
 
@DeadMG realloc (at least as conventionally defined) can/will expand a block in place if it can, but will otherwise allocate an entirely new block and copy the data from the old to the new.
 
oh
that's dumb, Wide's realloc won't do that.
 
6:02 AM
@DeadMG but how?
 
what if you need a custom copy/move constructor? you can't just go memcpying that shit around inside realloc.
 
@DeadMG Yes, that's (part of) why standard containers don't use it (though it's at least theoretically possible for containers of trivially copiable objects).
 
Trivially copyables in 11.
 
@JerryCoffin So I'd define realloc as expand in place if possible, return failure if not.
 
I was trying to do strikeout (and somebody showed how to get cat's version of morkdown to do it the other day) but can't seem to get it to work...
 
6:05 AM
@JerryCoffin ---shit---
 
@DeadMG The point of using the virtual memory mechanism is to ensure that it can essentially always succeed.
@DeadMG Thanks.
 
Given a certain (reasonable, I'd say) limit on container size.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh yeah. All I'm saying is that if you're not doing this stuff and have some other means of expanding, and need custom move/copy semantics, then realloc should still be viable.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, yes. Making it almost un reasonably large isn't even a problem as a rule.
 
so far, I'm defining the requirements for a bidirectional container, and I have no iterators /win
 
6:10 AM
I'm more interested in the ranges thing.
 
@DeadMG It's viable to a degree, but you're still stuck with the same (crappy, IMO) semantics as C++, never being able to count on pointers/references/iterators to stay valid. Assuring they're always valid is (would be) a big win, IMO.
 
Cliff Bleszblarg whaterver...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Going to ranges is fine too, but doesn't change much with respect to validity.
 
Presented the Unreal 4 engine.
 
@JerryCoffin "Rely on virtual memory hacks" is not a viable strategy for a portable language specification.
 
6:11 AM
I just love little poser cunts like him presenting the work of engineers.
 
I mean, I love iterators being valid as much as the next guy, but not every platform- or indeed, every operation of every container- is going to be able to pull that
 
@DomagojPandža meh... both UE2 and UE3 have same crappy source code =\
 
by the way
 
Unreal Engine has never been really impressive.
It's just baked crap.
But they made it easy to use, hence, adoption boom.
 
to remove push_back and friends and replace it with insert(back(), stuff_to_insert);?
or should the back and front continue to have special mutation functions?
 
6:16 AM
@DeadMG Given how often they're used, I'd say yes. I probably use push_back over insert by at least a 100:1 margin.
 
@DeadMG only if you'll provide free function "push_back"
 
@Abyx Oh yeah. And I can make it extension method- even better.
@JerryCoffin Was more thinking in terms of "performance loss". I can use extension methods for usability if I really want.
 
"We need realtime lighting, affect the time of day" - Cliff.

Welcome to 2007.
 
@DeadMG I'm not as worried about the performance loss, or the exact implementation -- my point is that push_back (for example) should be the easy case, simply because it's so common.
 
@JerryCoffin That's fine. I can make that happen somewhere else.
 
6:21 AM
@DeadMG Not a problem -- but given how common it is, it's not worth losing much performance just to simplify the interface or anything like that either.
 
I guess that I will come back to it after I do some performance/usability testing later
define the simple interface now
 
@DeadMG Seems like a reasonable approach to me.
 
@jalf Yup. You were the only guy I actively remembered being from Scandinavia. I think I know the Swedish have outrageous-looking collation rules
 
@JerryCoffin I also decided to go with the Boost::Iterators categorization of iterators. Ran into this nasty Standard flaw myself when writing some Unicode iterators.
assuming that I have no desire to implement a singly-linked list, do I really need any containers, at all, ever, which are not at least bidirectional?
 
Hey folks
 
6:31 AM
@DeadMG I've been working on establishing a proof of concept demo of that idea of yours for RTS games, the depth visualizer. In a few days, I should have a proper tech demo working, in a deferred rendering pipeline, full 3D orientation, not a hemisphere.
 
@DomagojPandža You know, I was mostly thinking about ideas, I didn't expect you to actually go off and do it :P
 
Any idea why this linker error is occuring error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "class std::basic_istream<char,struct std::char_traits<char> > & __cdecl read_hw(class std::basic_istream<char,struct std::char_traits<char> > &,class std::vector<double,class std::allocator<double> >)" (?read_hw@@YAAAV?$basic_istream@DU?$char_traits@D@std@@@std@@AAV12@V?$vector@NV?‌​$allocator@N@std@@@2@@Z) referenced in function "class ......
 
I always take a few days to experiment, makes me feel alive. I am actually thinking about modeling a few little ships, just for fun. Too lazy to network it, would be nice to make a Lounge<C++> session though. Might put it up on github, someone might pick it up and finish it later.
 
@DomagojPandža Yeah, someone like me :P
 
If you're in the mood, feel free. :D
Anyways, I'm off... Lots of damn work and you guys just force me into procrastination :D
 
6:34 AM
lol
 
But, truth be told, my laziness resistance factor was clamped to 0.0 a long time ago.
 
agree
 
anyone ?
 
@KodeSeeker It means the function was declared but never defined.
 
@DeadMG ohh I see. Thanks a lot, I was missing a & but the error message is just so cryptic :x. How about this one though error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _main referenced in function ___tmainCRTStartup
 
6:42 AM
@KodeSeeker The error message is simple: "undefined reference", and the fully expanded (and the fully mangled) name of the function.
@KodeSeeker You did not define a main() function.
 
sbi
> I dread heading off to work at E3 today. The show is a constant assault on the female self esteem no matter which direction I look. 1/3 — Brenda Garno
> I am in good shape, yet it is impossible not to compare. I feel uncomfortable. It is as if I walked into a strip club w/o intending to. 2/3 — Brenda Garno
> These are the policies of @e3expo and @RichatESA. I feel uncomfortable in an industry I helped found. 3/3 — Brenda Garno
 
I wish I could downvote chat messages
 
@DeadMG Why. "You don't like it" is not enough reason. Edit ah the guy spammed it in the chat rooms. Hmm. Reason for a downvote, maybe.
 
@sbi Y 3 TIMES?
 
@Abyx They're three different tweets.
 
6:44 AM
oh...
 
@sbi Wut?
@sbi Wot?
@sbi Huh?
 
they're about a female game developer complaining about the E3 "booth babes". And who can blame her?
 
@DeadMG : Well I dont see 'undefined reference' in the log I pasted but unresolved external symbol are they the same?
 
@KodeSeeker Yes.
 
@DeadMG No I havent , Im writing it in parts actually.
 
6:45 AM
Who's br? What's E3? Where does she work? Why is she feeling uncomfortable? What industry did she help found?
 
well if you are going to complain about "Booth Babes" then you need to complain about all events that use bikini models, which would be almost all of them.
 
who is she?
 
@sehe A game developer since 1981.
 
sbi
@Abyx If you would only manage to look at the text, despite the fact that there's a pic of a female face right next to it, you wouldn't embarrass yourself as bad as you just did.
 
@DeadMG Ah I see, thanks.The noob's bane.
 
6:46 AM
@sbi no, it wasn't so bad
 
anyone here unable to sleep because they want to finally get some work done on their side project say I
 
@sbi also it's almost same messages
 
@Abyx +1. I'd call it 'initial response'.
 
also twitter sucks
 
@DeadMG: fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals also because of an undefined main()?
 
6:47 AM
@Abyx why?
 
@KodeSeeker If you don't show me what external is unresolved, how could I possibly know?
 
sbi
@sehe I hadn't know her either, but then I'm not a gamer who knows game designers. But she said something I can very well relate to.
 
@Abyx Yes, it was.
 
@treehau5: You cannot view any tweets without activated JS. It will immediately redirect to an error page, and the original page won't show up in your browser's history.
 
sbi
@Abyx It is one message in three parts ("3/3").
 
6:48 AM
@DeadMG it would if I'd posted that "Y" 3 times, as @sehe did
 
@Abyx Well, technically, this wasn't even tweet material, made very very apparent by the fact that it didn't even fit into a single message.
 
@treehau5 bcoz of short messages
 
And the information density was so incredibly low, I think it should have been condensed to... about 80 characters instead of 3 tweets. And it would lack less context and be more informative at the same time.
 
@Abyx No, it was still terrible.
 
: Well here's the entire stack :`MSVCRTD.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _main referenced in function ___tmainCRTStartup
1>C:\Users\Vivek\Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\Chapter4\Debug\Chapter4.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
1>Build log was saved at "file://c:\Users\Vivek\Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\Chapter4\Chapter4\Debug\BuildLog.htm"
1>Chapter4 - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)`
 
6:49 AM
@KodeSeeker Look, it says it right there: _main.
 
@DeadMG who cares
 
@Abyx You should do.
 
@Abyx that's why it's so great, if you want to give a life story on a status, use Facebook
 
@DeadMG no, I don't
 
@DeadMG : Ah okay . Sorry never written C++ code in different places
 
6:50 AM
@Zeta have you tried using the mobile website?
 
as in files
 
@Abyx "no", as if what we said was mutually incompatible. You should do and you don't.
 
it's chat after all, we saw more stupid things here
 
@Abyx Hey, I saw that it was in 3 parts. I read all three. Twice. I felt the need to report that I was unable to make sense of any of the 3. Which made the whole parade rather useless.
 
@DeadMG see
 
6:50 AM
5 mins ago, by sehe
Who's br? What's E3? Where does she work? Why is she feeling uncomfortable? What industry did she help found?
 
@sehe Eh. It could have been snappier.
@Abyx See what?
 
@DeadMG another silly message of mine
 
@DeadMG No evil!
 
silence
 
@treehau5: I know there is one, but I don't want to copy each twitter URL and change it to the mobile version. They should redirect you to the mobile version if your JS is deactivated, but I guess this isn't easy since they're using window.location.hashcode to identify the tweet page.
 
6:52 AM
@Abyx I kill you
 
@sehe you can't
 
@Zeta Kinda hard to do logic on the client side when you ... disabled doing logic on the client side.
 
sbi
7 mins ago, by sbi
@sehe I hadn't know her either, but then I'm not a gamer who knows game designers. But she said something I can very well relate to.
 
@DeadMG: True. Maybe I should write a little Firefox extension that redirects me to the mobile version.
 
6:56 AM
@sbi I wasnt' repeating that question. I was illustrating my point to Abyx
 
I feel that chat looks like a code full of goto
 
@Abyx Nah, it's just a graphy lettuce.
 
sbi
@sehe Hey, it was a woman! What are you asking for?! :)
@sehe Yeah, I just got that.
 
@sbi Mmm. That looks a little at odds with the case you are making
 
sbi
Sorry, I was distracted for a moment. One of my ex-wifes forwarded me a mail linking to a jpg image with no text to to, not even a mail subject. Had her on the phone 20secs later. Turns out she was forwarding me the message because she suspected it to be a virus and wanted my opinion. Sigh. Not sure whether I should slap or congratulate her.
@sehe Yeah, and also it has a smiley.
 
6:59 AM
Could anyone explains what this code fragment does `#ifdef _MSC_VER
typedef std::vector<double>::size_type vec_sz;
#else
typedef vector<double>::size_type vec_sz;
#endif`
 
sbi
#ifdef _MSC_VER
typedef std::vector<double>::size_type vec_sz;
#else
typedef vector<double>::size_type vec_sz;
#endif
 
@radekdaknokslupik ohai on cxx-book. However:
Jun 3 at 11:02, by sehe
I personally think the idea of accreting blog posts, article by article, then 'structuring' that into a book has a higher chance of ending on-target (and of completing at all)
 
@KodeSeeker It appears to behave correctly on Visual Studio, and badly everywhere else.
 
sbi
@KodeSeeker Please read the newbie hints, linked from the right-hand panel. Among other things, it explains how to (not) post code here.
 
@DeadMG : Well what exactly does it do?
@sbi Sure
 
7:01 AM
@KodeSeeker It defines a type differently, depending on compiler used. The only difference being the use of the (standard...) namespace std::
I can only assume this is to support a non-standard STL/standard lib implementation (think embedded programming?) which doesn't use the namespace, for whatever funky reason
 
@sehe : Is it necessary? Cant I just live by with typedef std::vector<double>::size_type vec_sz;
 
@KodeSeeker That's what I thought, but that wasn't your question
Standard libraries should have std::vector<>
@KodeSeeker In order to be specific the code should read ::std::vector<>, otherwise it all depends on what using namespace xxxx; statements are in effect anyways
 
@sehe well I had that question because, I didn't seem to understand what those lines meant, so from my limited understanding, can I say that the author just tried to optimise something specific for VC++?
 
@KodeSeeker Optimize? Using a different name isn't optimization.
 
sbi
@KodeSeeker NO, the author tried to circumvent a quirky std lib implementation.
 
7:05 AM
@sbi That indeed, or just didn't know how to use namespaces.
 
@sehe, @sbi: I see.
 
sbi
@KodeSeeker This thing is really fishy. _MSC_VER is #defined by the Visual C++ compiler (and a few others, IIRC, which want to camouflage as VC). If that's defined (#ifdef), the correct syntax is used to typedef vec_sz. If not, then a wrong syntax is used (omitting the std:: prefix). I can only presume this code is to compile on VC and some quirky platform not having vector in std. As @sehe says, that's highly suspicious.
Also, preprocessor directives should be explained in any decent text book early on (for include guards). What book are you learning from, @KodeSeeker?
 
... :)
Off to the office
 
@sbi well thats exactly why I asked. And so Im skipping the quirkiness and sticking to the typedef std::vector.. implementation , and Im using Accelerated C++, the funny thing is that this is not mentioned in the book but only in the VC++ specific code on the website .
 
sbi
@KodeSeeker Oh. Well, that is one of the best books to learn C++ from, but it's quite small, and so has little room to elaborate. The code they publish has to deal with the real world, and quirky compilers (and it's quite old from today's POV, so had to deal with much worse compilers ten years ago), whereas the code in their book assumes ideal std conformity.
 
7:14 AM
so sticking to typedef std::vector<>.. should suffice AFAIC?
 
sbi
@KodeSeeker Yeah, by all means!
 
@sbi : Thanks and hope such doubts are welcome on the Lounge ! ;) :)
 
sbi
I would suggest you try to ignore such warts, concentrate on what the code tries to teach you, and see how well you fare that way. But if you get stuck, feel free to come back and ask. However: please add right away where the code is from. Had I known it's from a ten year old book, I could have explained it to you right away.
 
Morning
 
sbi
@ManofOneWay Are you at work?
 
7:17 AM
@sbi Indeed
What about you?
 
sbi
@ManofOneWay I am, too.
 
That's great
:)
 
@sbi Ah well, I can only argue in my defense that I had no clue about what those lines meant when I saw them first. Anyways point noted and will do the same next time on .
 
sbi
@KodeSeeker It's fine, I didn't want to criticize you, so there's no need to defend. It was meant as helpful advice, nothing more.
 
@sbi Well thank you
 
7:21 AM
hmmm
not sure where to put stuff like std::equal_to.
I mean, it's not really an algorithm.
 
@DeadMG it should be (==)
 
@Abyx Pretty hard to pass that as a parameter (for one example).
 
@JerryCoffin Eh. Just remembered that my language doesn't suck and problem solved.
HashMap(key, value, comparator = function(x,y) { return x == y; }, ... )
 
function(x,y) { return x == y; } - why not (x, y) => x == y ?
 
@Abyx I'm pretty sure that the second form is nasty to parse.
 
7:28 AM
@DeadMG yep
 
Well, gotta get some sleep. G'night all.
 
C++ is difficult enough to parse as it is with all its micro syntaxes
 
@Neil I'm defining a new language anyhoo, so that doesn't matter to me.
 
@DeadMG Oh? Then that form shouldn't be so bad, assuming all functions are written in that fashion
 
@Neil When I tried it, my LR generator told me it was bad.
 
7:34 AM
What happens when you need to write a function with multiple lines?
what's the grammar look like?
 
I say identifier(args) { shit; } for real functions. function(args) { shit; } is only necessary for anonymous functions.
 
Could be something as silly as declaring the grammar like: parameters := parameters ',' parameters
| identifier
That wouldn't parse for example, and it has nothing to do with the function syntax itself
 
I already had a working grammar for function arguments.
besides, my anonymous functions are functions, not expressions- a simple lambda expression isn't really what I'm using them for.
 
@sbi rofl
"I'm a security expert, plix give pw!"
 
sbi
7:39 AM
Try it out.
 
nah
 
@sbi is it @Cicada 's site ?
 
sbi
@DeadMG Just do it. Enter some phrase.
@Abyx Huh?
 
rofl
my clipboard was accidentally full of "<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title>Hash Map - Wide Language</title>
</head>
<body>"
 
@sbi it's .fr domain
 
7:44 AM
and I got 0% secure right back
strangely, I think that a block of HTML like that is probably pretty safe
 
sbi
@Abyx Cicada isn't the only human being in France who can code.
 
@sbi oh really?
 
sbi
@DeadMG OMG. Can't you guys even read? What's it with you young folks?
 
@sbi Yes, I can. I merely found it funny.
 
sbi
@DeadMG "strangely, I think that a block of HTML like that is probably pretty safe" is a sure sign you haven't got the joke.
 
7:46 AM
@sbi I can read digits, and even numbers
...and also odd numbers.
 
@sbi Well, for one, it's probably pretty safe because I don't use it as a password :P
 
sbi
@DeadMG You still haven't understood. How embarrassing.
 
no, I completely get it
the joke is on people who put their passwords into the box, giving them out to any old randomer who claims to be a good person
which obviously defeats their purpose
if there's some joke beyond that, then I didn't get it
 
@sbi, your jokes are too smart. are you really an ape?
 
sbi
@Abyx What's there to doubt when a bird and a puppy don't get my jokes?
 
7:52 AM
@sbi So what was the joke?
 
lol
 
ape is trolling us (I can't prove it, but I have this feeling)
 
@Abyx When it comes to trolling, hunches rarely lead you astray.
 

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