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@sbi I have a few old fans. Maybe I will see what happens in a controlled environment tonight. :-)
Should I create a video of the experiement?
 
@sbi I'm always impressed by the knowledge you guys display. But everytime I try to dig a bit more into C++, I'm scared away by the sheer patchwork-looks of the language. I don't feel the language. It doesn't make me feel confident and I don't really know how to overcome that sentiment of distrust.
 
I don't know why but I read WASP everytime I see ASAP
 
@kbok White Anglo Saxon Protestant vs Arab Saxon Arab Protestant. Know the difference. It could save your life.
 
Or, "angry bee".
 
9:02 PM
@kbok "A game by Rovio"
 
@Cicada You failed your joke, it should be Anglo Saxon Arab Protestant.
 
@kbok There.
 
You failed twice.
 
you suck. I saw your edits.
 
@sbi LEGO bricks are one of the most dangerous things to set your foot on.
 
9:03 PM
damn
just broke another leg of my chair
 
...
WTF do you do with your chairs?
 
He's just fat.
 
@EtiennedeMartel What about model cars?
 
Scratch that, I don't want to know.
 
sbi
@DeadMG And now you're sitting on a tow-legged chair? Sounds like it will be a good exercise for your back muscles.
 
9:04 PM
@kbok Not as bad.
 
Ell
does c++ have a runtime library dll?
or is it all on the host OS?
 
@sbi tow-legged? I'm trying to picture how that would work...
 
@sbi Three, it used to be a five-legged chair
 
There's a runtime library
 
@EtiennedeMartel The only thing worse is stepping on a sleeping gorilla's foot.
 
9:05 PM
How many legs are there on your chairs? Because if it were mine you would have only two legs remaining, which is not really comfortable to sit on.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes While said foot is resting on a LEGO brick.
 
sbi
@kbok What about them? You step on them, they break. Lego bricks, however, never break. And they can hurt like hell.
 
@Ell Doesn't have to be a dynamic library, can be static or header-only
 
@sbi They roll
 
sbi
@Cicada I imagine that, for a six-legged creature, balancing on two legs must seem like pure magic.
 
9:06 PM
@sbi Ah, that's it. Attach cow-catchers to your feet and slide them along the floor rather than walking normally
 
Ell
@DeadMG so let's say I'm on a computer without admin access, I can just compile it in statically and it will work without having to install anything?
 
@sbi You step on them, you fall on your back. Believe it or not, that hurts too, especially if you fall on a mess of Lego bricks and model cars.
2
 
@Ell Probably.
 
@sbi It was a pun on your typo.
 
@Ell You're actually on a computer that doesn't have a C++ library installed?
 
9:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I laughed
 
Ell
@Collin I'm not, I'm just assuming the worst :P
 
@sbi Seriously. You could make a nuclear shelter from LEGO bricks.
 
sbi
@kbok well, I dunno about your parents, but my kids are not allowed to play with their model cars in the middle of the night.
 
inb4 nokia 3310
 
@sbi But they are allowed to play with Lego in the middle if the night?
 
sbi
9:08 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope. But they are not required to put them away every evening.
 
@sbi I'm talking about this:
^ The third one. Used to have a bunch of them when I was a kid.
 
do you guys remember cars that would change color in hot water?
 
I did not have such a thing
 
or cars where parts would flip to reveal a "damaged" part?
@kbok how old are you?
 
sbi
@kbok Shrug. That would break if I stepped on it.
@Cicada That patchwork thingie is indeed true. C++ is based on a 40 year old portable assembler, and then had extensions strung to it for 30 years itself, every extending the family of paradigms it supports. So it inevitably is a very patchy thing.
 
Ell
9:10 PM
@emartel remember those
 
@emartel 22
 
@kbok it explains why :)
 
sbi
@emartel What would that be good for? I mean, it's not like anyone will ever drive their car through a huge tub of hot water, just to see the color change.
 
@sbi Then you must be fat, because I never broke one by stepping on it, even with shoes
 
Confirmed.
 
9:11 PM
@sbi I meant model cars, like toys
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Which part of kbok's statement are you confirming? :)
 
@sbi C++ is like an ancient castle, still showing scars from wars nearly 1000 years ago, half a dozen different architectural styles, uneven floors, a few halls that suddenly come to dead ends, and a hole in one wall so large it now houses a small restaurant...
 
sbi
@kbok I am a 500lb gorilla. As a rule, if I step onto anything but a Lego brick in the kids' room, it will break. The kids have learned to clean a trail for me from the door to the window. (Occasionally, though, one of those pesky 1x2 Lego bricks manages to be in the middle of that trail, when I come to close the window in a mild summer night. That's where the kids got those nightmares about howling wolves from.)
 
@JerryCoffin And secret passages!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought that went without saying...
 
sbi
9:16 PM
I think the algorithm must be centered around your avatar, your nick's second letter, the TLD of your email address, or maybe std::rand(). Back when I had >50k rep and was among the top 10 of a popular tag, I only got an invite when some fellow in the chat (by then <10k, IIRC) who already got an invitation out of the blue suggested me to the team. — sbi 1 hour ago
 
@sbi So you are a gorilla. I thought it was only your avatar.
 
sbi
@kbok Actually, I am an obese bonobo, but don't tell anybody here, because then those dumbasses again start to confuse bonobos with gorillas.
 
I was right then, you are fat
 
@kbok He's German
 
Ow.
@Cicada Get your stereotypes right, girl. The fat ones are the Merkins.
 
9:19 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope. They are morbidly obese.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I rather think of C++ as a war horse, battered and beaten, but being able to get you out of the thickest mêlée. Well, into it, too.
 
Is it C++ metaphore day
 
@kbok Apparently.
 
Quick, compare it to something both useful and deadly at the same time.
 
I think of C++ as a delicious hamburger.
 
9:21 PM
Full of sauce and diabeetus.
 
@Cicada how fit
 
Ell
If I'm writing a chat server - how would I go about serialising messages? assuming I want to allow unicode text - let's say I'm using ogonek. Can I just copy the underlying bytes? or does endianness come into the picture?
 
@Ell For a situation like that, you probably want to serialize to UTF-8, which is endian-independent.
 
@Ell My brain is being trippy.
 
Ell
@Cicada This is under the assumption that the sender sends in big endian isn't it?
 
sbi
9:22 PM
@Cicada hton()/ntoh()? ("...just copy the bytes...")
 
Ell
I mean, it can't automatically be big endian can it?
 
@Ell No -- that's what @sbi was saying: you need to convert from host to net format (thus, hton*). Of course, if you happen to be on a big-endian machine, that'll be a NOP. On the receiving end, you use nto* to reverse that.
 
@Ell It is whatever you put there.
 
@Ell you'd probably want to use the equivalent of something like these functions: linux.die.net/man/3/htons
 
Ell
9:24 PM
Right, I thought so - that's why I get confused when people say "network is big endian"
 
Sorry :D
 
I thought UTF-8 was endianness-agnostic?
 
@Ell Most protocols send numeric values as big endian.
@kbok It is.
 
As is any encoding where the code unit is a byte.
 
9:25 PM
@sbi Yes, that's the way it's normally done when using Berkley Sockets
 
sbi
@Ell It's a convention, not a physical necessity.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes so let's say I want to send data over TCP, then it is me who has to deal with endianness? as TCP only cares about an array of bytes?
 
@sbi Impressive
 
@Ell correct.
 
sbi
@kbok Pure genius.
 
9:26 PM
@Ell You only need to care about byte order for your data.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes so what is the "host" and "network" byte order?
 
If you are using a custom protocol, network byte order is whatever you want.
 
Ell
ahh okay, so I can just say everything is big endian and then it's fine?
 
@Ell traditionally they are the little endian.
 
As long as you make the proper conversions at the boundaries.
@Chimera No.
 
Ell
9:29 PM
right okay, but on the server side, when I receive bytes the OS isn't doing anything funky with them is it?
it's just giving me a load of bytes?
 
@Ell You need to do the proper conversion.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Berkley sockets considers host byte order to be little endian. Opposite of Intel chips endianess.
 
Ell
@Chimera helpful of them :P
 
@Chimera The last sentence is right. The first one isn't.
 
9:30 PM
Intel chips are little endian.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah ok... got the endianess wrong... I knew it was opposite Intel. :-)
 
@Ell The only thing you need to care is that anything that is larger than one byte must written with the same order that it is read.
That's why UTF-8 is safe: code units are one byte, so it's irrelevant.
 
Ell
Right okay, thank you, I think I got you
 
I always thought big endian made the most sense.
 
Ell
so I now understand host/network endianness
 
sbi
9:33 PM
> My daughter was told, "Girls don't play games." She said, "My mommy makes games!" — Brenda Romero
 
@Ell Isn't that what I told you a half hour ago or so?
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin yeah, but I still didn't understand the whole network/host endian thing
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin The problem with your answer was that it provided a solution without allowing to arrive there through understanding. :)
 
user1182183
hmm does anyone know a plugin/addition/setting for skype to call a number at a specific time for xx seconds? I searched on google but cannot find anything :(
 
@Ell Oh lord. Network order is defined as big-endian. Host order is whatever your machine happens to use. When you send something that's made up of multiple bytes, you convert from whatever your machine uses to network order (hton*). When you receive, you use ntoh* to convert it to whatever the receiving end uses. Not really much more to it than that.
 
9:36 PM
@sbi "there". I hope the pirate is not leaking onto you.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thx. Of course, I have no idea how that happened.
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin No I understand it now, I mean, the reason I didn't just accept your answer and say "okay thank you" immediately was because I still didn't understand it at that point, but now I do which is why I said "so I will use utf-8", sort of signaling that I had understood the explanation you and others had given me
hence the "still didn't" as opposed to "still don't"
 
sbi
> The whole floor at the institute just freaked out because a program was popping up on their computer screens. Any guesses what happened? — Konrad Rudolph
 
@Ell Okay. I'm a bit slow, but I think I understand now.
 
sbi
> Solution: somebody plugged in an AirPort somewhere and the AirPort utility fired up. WTF, OS X? Konrad Rudolph
 
Ell
9:38 PM
@JerryCoffin okay, thank you for you explanation and answer anyway :)
 
@sbi Remember: "It just works" (as long as you define "works" as "attempts to subvert your security, destroy your sanity, and basically be a POS").
 
Anyone heard about brinners? Is it a real thing?
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin POS?
 
@sbi Piece Of Shit.
 
@kbok I have experienced that.
@sbi U+1F4A9
 
sbi
9:40 PM
@kbok No, but I heard about "binners". That's the owners here, when someone posts something stupid.
 
@kbok As anybody who lived in the '70s knows, it can't be because Coke is the real thing.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's POP, Shirley?
 
@JerryCoffin I thought it was LSD :)
 
@kbok LSD was mostly about the decidedly unreal.
 
sbi
I thought that was LSB? Or aren't we talking about endianess anymore?
 
9:44 PM
Woohoo! My installer for a C# application that uses an SQLite database works. I was worried about getting all the dependencies setup correctly. woot
 
@sbi No, LSB is integer (unless declared real, of course).
 
⊤ U+22a4 DOWN TACK vs ⍡ U+2361 APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL UP TACK DIARESIS
They fucked up the names.
 
Look at this angry fucker
 
@kbok Kill him Mario!
I need some congrats people!
> Woohoo! My installer for a C# application that uses an SQLite database works. I was worried about getting all the dependencies setup correctly. woot
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes would I be right in saying I can send a char array over the network as an array of unicode... code points? then ogonek will be able to interpret it as a text on the other end?
 
9:47 PM
> Woohoo! My installer for a C# application that uses an SQLite database works. I was worried about getting all the dependencies setup correctly. woot
 
sbi
> Searched for programming question. Found useful StackOverflow answer. Upvoted. Error: "You can't vote for your own post." — Tomalak
 
@kbok From the smoothness of the crotch, I'd say non-fucker.
 
@kbok step2: take an animated gif, and make a corresponding animated gif. step 3 make the output at a higher framerate and interpolate or something.
 
Ell
@Chimera congrats!
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin LOL!
 
9:48 PM
@Ell :-)
 
sbi
@Chimera Fuck off.
 
@sbi LOL
 
@Ell All you need is encoding and decoding. Yes, my library can do that.
 
@MooingDuck I thought about step3 actually. This might be a lot harder. First I want to cleanup the code and improve the speed a bit. But that's definitely in the plan :)
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought so, just checking :L
 
9:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes did he use code points right? Or should it have been code units?
@kbok well, step2 is a prereq to step 3.
 
@MooingDuck The wording he used is way too confusing to evaluate :S That's why I kind of evaded the question and answered in a different way.
 
g'night guys
 
Ell
@emartel nighty night
 
@emartel G'night.
 
@Ell I got plinked for that, hmm?
 
Ell
9:52 PM
@EtiennedeMartel gulp Ss..Ss...Sorry sir :(
 
@Ell all networks see is a stream of characters. They won't touch or interpret anything. ogonek is able to interpret the stream of characters as utf8 if that's what you desire.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel No way!
 
Hmm. I want to buy a MP3 album but it's available only in the US.
 
sbi
So the French reinvent the tablet computer, and they do it for... cooking! That's so stereotyping, I almost can't believe that.
 
@kbok ergo: piracy!
 
Ell
9:54 PM
@MooingDuck yeah, I am thinking too much about things, overthinking :P
 
sbi
@MooingDuck insert appropriate oatmeal comic here.
 
I don't often pay for my downloads, but nearly everytime I try I get shat in the face. Then people go berserk when they see their stuff is on bittorrent.
4
 
@sbi Why not only an app ?
 
sbi
@kbok You could repeatedly log into TOR until you happen to end up on a Merkin server, and buy it then.
 
Xeo
9:55 PM
@sbi Stealthy!
 
@sbi I think it looks for your billing address. I could change it, but fuck them. I will download it on bittorrent and donate directly to the artist instead.
 
More artists need a thing on their websites: "I pirated your stuff because it's hard to get legally and wish to give you the money directly"
 
@kbok What do you mean "shat in the face'?
 
sbi
@kbok Allegedly (I don't speak French), they say it's because the thing is made for the hostile kitchen The German news magazine Der Spiegel speculates it's because the tablet costs a hundred times as much as an app.
 
@sbi Hostile kitchen? Like French kitchen are plagued with zombies or something
 
sbi
9:58 PM
@Cicada See here.
 
@sbi I really am asking what he means because I don't get the metaphor.
 
Not sure if I want to click that.
 
sbi
@kbok Every tried how your iPhone takes being soaked in bechamel sauce?
 
@Cicada Sorry, US only/You need to open three accounts/give your phone number and the size of your dick/oh, you need to install our software/etc.
 
@kbok can you get it directly from teh artist?
 
sbi
9:59 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Make up your mind!
 

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