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2:00 PM
He's fixing the problems, FFS, and doing it for quite reasonable reason.
 
user142019
No, I'm not.
 
@rightfold What did you change?
 
user142019
The problem is clang and clang should be fixed.
 
Getting away from GNU toolchain is a very reasonable.
 
Stop fixing problems, no good ever comes of that!
 
2:00 PM
@rightfold Hey, you did fix that.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes The definition of as_code_point_range uses wheels::EnableIf<something>... and I changed it to typename std::enable_if<something::value>::type for all six EnableIf/DisableIfs.
 
user142019
I already deleted the entire thing before you asked that, so… :v
 
@rightfold No ...?
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes No.
 
Then you didn't fix it. You broke it in a different way.
 
user142019
2:02 PM
Oh. :P
 
(i.e. now it's the code that is broken, not clang)
 
user142019
clang is still broken. :P
 
user142019
It's just not causing the problem this time.
 
@rightfold Actually, that should not compile...
You cannot have void as template parameter.
 
Erm?
 
2:04 PM
Yeah, don't do that.
@Griwes template <void X> is not valid.
typename std::enable_if<something::value>::type is either void or failure (so no overload should ever be valid).
 
Right, I was a bit slow this time.
 
woo! Germany spent a billion € buying and refitting a drone from the US which they knew wouldn't get airspace certification (because the US doesn't want to give anybody the blueprints to it, which are required to pass the safety standards in order to get that certification) :p
 
Anyway, I am not interested in maintaining compiler workarounds now.
Once the project gains traction, contributors can handle that.
 
^ look at him and laugh!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm sure @ThePhD would be glad to contribute!
 
2:12 PM
I know :(
 
@Xeo He did try to get it to build in MSVC, but, you know, MSVC.
 
Xeo
heh
 
user142019
LOL
 
@ScottW I run into things like that every time I use Java. I read a bit of code, and think "well, it's wordy, but I guess I can live with that." Then I try to write something, and every time I turn around, run into more stupid crap, and within an hour or two (at most) I'm grinding my teeth and thinking "would it have killed them to be just slightly less asinine in designing this POS language?"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I built clang with MSVC :D ...but I can't build anything with that clang :(
 
2:14 PM
I don't really feel super compelled to ditch GCC for clang as my primary compiler, anyway.
 
user142019
@ScottW Welcome to the land of retardation.
 
user142019
Use Scala.
 
user142019
It compiles == to .equals.
 
user142019
In Objective-C, isEqualToString: is faster than isEqual: for strings. XD
 
Oh gosh.
facepalm
Why is every goddamn popular language designed by idiots.
 
2:16 PM
@rightfold Idiots!
 
user142019
I have no idea how it can happen.
 
@rightfold Does it always produce the same result? Or does it do something similar, but slightly different?
 
user142019
> When you know both objects are strings, this method is a faster way to check equality than isEqual:.
 
@rightfold Wait. That's a member of some universal base class?
Wut.
 
user142019
isEqual: is on NSObject, which is the base class for everything but NSProxy.
 
2:18 PM
And isEqualToString?
 
user142019
isEqualToString: exists only on NSString and subclasses of NSString.
 
Erm.
So, it... does what, really?
WTF
 
user142019
It's like isEqual: but faster. :D
 
I thought the idiocy was only on the description, but the explanation adds some more :S
 
For years, I argued with people that Microsoft won, not by cheating or anything like that, but by simply using slightly smaller caliber weapons as they shot themselves in the foot. C++ is pretty much the same way -- it's the best language for most purposes, not because it's great or it cheats, but simply because it shoots itself in the foot a little less often, and with marginally less damage than these other idiots do to themselves.
 
user142019
2:19 PM
They don't say what "faster" means though.
 
I... Is there an Obj-C room?
 
user142019
Maybe it's that single branch that checks whether the types are the same.
 
@rightfold And calling isEqualToString does no type checking?
 
user142019
Wait. I think it does.
 
user142019
It must be something else.
 
2:21 PM
(Assuming you can call it on non-strings, because if you cannot... the compiler already fucking knows those are strings... so...)
 
user142019
No, it doesn't.
 
user142019
Objective-C is dynamically typed.
 
user142019
Except for the C subset.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes At a guess, it does roughly the equivalent of asserting that the type is string, instead of casting all the way up to NSObject, then the equivalent of a dynamic_cast (probably one step at a time) to traverse back down to NSString.
 
Ell
s.lines.map{|l| l.strip}.reject{|l| l == "" || l[0] != "G"}.map{|i| i.split("_").tap{|s| s.delete_at(0)}.map{|n| n.capitalize}.join}
^^I'm so pro at writing readable code!
 
user142019
2:21 PM
The compiler does some type checking if you give explicit types to variables but it's all translated to id at runtime.
 
user142019
Even auto in Objective-C++ always infers id for Objective-C types making it a pain in the ass.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh gawd. Why does that sound right.
 
@Ell So if you can, why don't you?
 
Ell
heh
 
GCC on Windows chokes, badly, on precompiled headers that are too big.
which sucks, because Boost Math has one of those.
 
user142019
2:23 PM
Wait.
 
big headers? in boost? :p
 
Seems all Obj-C rooms are galleries.
Not gonna bother.
50
A: NSString: isEqual vs. isEqualToString

AbizernisEqual: compares a string to an object, and will return NO if the object is not a string. isEqualToString: is faster if you know both objects are strings, as the documentation states: Special Considerations When you know both objects are strings, this method is a faster way to check equ...

 
user142019
> When this method compares two strings, if the individual Unicodes are the same, then the strings are equal, regardless of the backing store.
 
Apparently not even Obj-C devs bother with it anyway.
 
user142019
> Unicodes
 
user142019
2:24 PM
Is that even a word?
 
@rightfold Where is that?
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Reference/… in the Discussion section of isEqualToString:.
 
user142019
LOLOLOL
 
user142019
> So, for instance, “Ö” represented as the composed character sequence “O” and umlaut would not compare equal to “Ö” represented as one Unicode character.
 
so, when I visit youtube with chrome...chrome blocks some script because it's not being loaded from a https source or something. chrome blocks a youtube script? wow.
 
user142019
2:25 PM
That is… bad, right?
 
@rightfold lol, that's like official, right?
 
user142019
That's Apple's documentation for Apple's framework, yes.
 
@rightfold So, binary equality, yeah. I assume isEqual does the same.
 
user142019
@ScottW similar to strcmp but for unichar.
 
lol, "the individual Unicodes".
 
Ell
2:27 PM
gah. I'm in a terrible habbit of always specifying -f with rm
 
alias rm='rm -I -d -v'
 
user142019
I think you can use compare:options:range: if you want correct behavior but I'm not sure.
 
user142019
The documentation is vague.
 
@Ell I pretty much never -f nor -r these days.
$ alias ls='sudo rm -rf /'
$ ls
Password:
rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on ‘/’
rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe
$
It's the behaviour since, I don't know, 2006 or something.
 
user142019
oh-my-zsh has a plug-in that provides a trash command.
 
user142019
2:30 PM
You can then do alias rm=trash.
 
@ScottW I do it quite often, to show it to people that think it still works :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is there a single representation that unicode ... things... can be transformed to, to make comparison etc. easier?
 
user142019
# alias rm='rm --no-preserve-root'
 
@rubenvb They are called normalization forms.
 
user142019
I think not.
 
2:32 PM
Given two strings in the same normal form, op== can be implemented with a binary comparison.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes there are several of them? Is there a "better one"?
 
For op< you have collation keys.
 
@melak47 silly you.
 
@rubenvb There are four standard ones. The best one depends on use case.
 
I could've figured.
 
2:33 PM
@rubenvb yes I know :(
 
There are also two other semi-official ones (described in a technical note) which are only useful to speed up some implementations.
 
'twas silly to think it'd work :p
 
user142019
To what extent does Ogonek implement normalization?
 
@rubenvb NFC seems to be the most common (mainly because most keyboards/keyboard drivers/keymaps/whatever produce NFC input)
@rightfold Completely?
 
@melak47 I have functional Clang builds (with GCC 4.6's libstdc++ though)
 
user142019
2:34 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Neat.
 
Some Vietnamese keyboards produce NFD though. Don't ask why.
 
user142019
The world needs a new C++ compiler.
 
Do the Unicode data files provide you with the means to create a big conversion table thingie?
 
user142019
One that lacks preprocessor support.
 
@rightfold Few thousands coming at cppgm, pity they'll all be closed source :D
 
user142019
2:36 PM
What is cppgm?
 
@rightfold One that is not standard compliant, you mean.
cppgm.org
 
user142019
Oh that LOL.
 
@rightfold that'd be useless without my KISS library completed.
 
user142019
@Griwes Duh.
 
2:36 PM
@rubenvb KISS?
 
user142019
lol
 
fuck markdown
 
@rubenvb boo still not clickable
:D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes dat iz one big array/braced-init-list.
 
user142019
@rubenvb KISS uses the preprocessor.
 
2:38 PM
@rubenvb The full thing (there are more tables like that) weighs ~6MB.
 
@rightfold yeah comments. duh. The config.h++ file can really be removed. MSVC sucks.
 
@rubenvb looks like that could take a while? :p
 
@melak47 no kidding. help appreciated. There's some type traits failing tests currently.
 
I have to program java at uni right now. I don't think you want my "help" right now D:
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you wrote the generator in C#? Lazy basterd :P
@melak47 hell, my coding skills aren't any good either. Or I'd have some more to show for it :)
 
2:41 PM
@rubenvb There are two source formats for the database: a bunch of text files with a different format for each, or one big XML file. Linq-to-XML seemed like an easy way out.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't blame you. That's a hell of task.
@ScottW you laughin' at me? huh?
 
@ScottW Good. Check out my namespace extern "C" quarantine in math.h++
 
@rubenvb Oh btw, it isn't a plain full table: each entry is a range, and then I do binary search. A full table with one entry per codepoint would be waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger.
And crazy, really.
 
Ell
[Testing completed. All tests passed (236048 assertions in 26 test cases)] well how about that
 
2:46 PM
@ScottW I figured I'd need some way to get at the platform specific C goodies (like math and OS calls).
 
user142019
@Ell Holy shit that's a lot of assertions.
 
Ell
@rightfold it's ogonek. And I thought the same thing
 
user142019
lel
 
Ell
surely @R.MartinhoFernandes didn't write them manualy?
 
Problem is I don't have the skills to design a stdlib myself so I'm basing my impl on the C++ std, but it has a lot of warts and corner cases I don't know I want to care about.
 
2:47 PM
@Ell The vast majority is generated from official test data.
 
protonic no doubt
 
@Ell Each line here currently yields four assertions: raw.github.com/rmartinho/ogonek/master/test/….
 
Ell
Ah right
 
how big is the ogonek library (compiled+optimized)?
 
Ell
that'll be why there's 200k of 'em
@rubenvb most is header only
 
2:49 PM
I know ICU is about 30 MB.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Broke stuff again?
 
@Ell the data itself surely isn't?
 
@rubenvb Algorithms are header-only. Compiled data is ~6MB.
 
user142019
How does Check register those test cases, actually? Static ctors? What about SIOF? Lazy initialization?
 
2:49 PM
that's tiny. Awesome.
 
@rubenvb It's currently missing stuff that ICU includes: all the Unihan data, and locales.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes What other reason would there be to fire all those assertions if you have normalization complete?
 
I still don't know how useful is Unihan stuff (my knowledge of Han is... limited), but locales are definitely useful. Though locales, if anything, are a 2.0 feature.
@Xeo Et tu Brutus?
The word "assertion" does not mean "failure". It means more or less the opposite.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't blame you.
 
It means that you claim something is true.
 
2:51 PM
more unicode data files! This time for locales
 
That's why you get assertion failures when that thing is not true.
 
user142019
coo long; didn't read
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes It read like all the assertions fired (i.e., failed)
My bad
 
Also, it appears it's Brute, not Brutus. Shame on me.
Fucking cases.
@rightfold Yeah, probably lazy initialization.
Like, function local statics or something.
 
I should make my arch mingw-w64 compiler multilib.
Problem is, I really hate GCC's multilib scheme.
because well, it sucks.
 
2:59 PM
@rubenvb Takes forever to compile those 6MB on my RPi. RAM is not enough at all and then it starts thrashing like mad, and this is thrashing over an SD card...
 
I'm talking half an hour or something here, vs about a minute on any other machine I use.
 

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