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11:00 AM
?
im still offering money for projects...
 
Sem
@Petah I'm just kidding, no worries..
 
our clients have been chased by MS sales reps trying to get them to convert to MS Dynamics CRM lately
hence the question before
 
11:25 AM
PHP vs ASP .NET... Which is better? (I'd prefer a non-biased answer) I'd say PHP any day(but what do I know)
 
@ShyamK questions like this get regularly shot down on SO because they are not constructive
 
@ShyamK PHP > Coldfusion > Ruby > ASP.NET
Or when you say "vs", do you mean if they had to fight each other, who would win?
 
@Gordon ppl ask stuff like that at SO?
 
@ShyamK Normally deleted pretty quickly :P you may not have seen them
 
@Leigh no fighting :) ... just wanted to reassure myself that PHP was waaay better than .NET
 
11:32 AM
@ShyamK I'd rather cut my arms off and write in assembler by smashing my face into the keyboard before I'd use ASP.
 
PLB
@Leigh Just personal preference or do you have some arguments too?
 
@PLB Personal preference of not actually being a sadomasichist
 
@Leigh "If their were infinite armless Leighs writing in assembler by smashing their faces into infinite keyboards, how long would it take them to write a web application?"
 
@DaveRandom Given then after the first smash, you'd need to aim for the backspace key, then after that smash, you'd need to aim for it again, etc. and the likelyhood of writing an app in the first smash isn't really plausible...
I think we'd run out of space disposing of the remaining bloody stumps before anything came to fruition, still, at least they wouldn't have to use ASP :)
 
@salathe something's odd with php.net
it's giving me lots of 404s and wrong languages
 
11:42 AM
I've been fine using it with it's alpha/beta whatever UI
 
PLB
@Gordon It works fine.
 
@PLB yeah, I am just making this up. sure.
 
@Gordon Which local server are you using?
 
PLB
@Gordon Oh, of course. By the way, I've just noticed that I have no problems.
 
...as in [server].php.net
 
11:45 AM
Deliberately clicking around on de.php.net and not had an issue :/
 
@DaveRandom I clicked the link to The Manual in stackoverflow.com/a/12298899/208809
 
uk. is working for me, maybe try that mirror?
 
well nl2 doesn't work at all for me, dns issues
 
then i removed the nl2 bit so it says just php.net and ended on de.php.net/manual/en/…
 
@Gordon That link is totally wrong, should be domdocument.getelementbyid.php not function.dom-domdocument-getelementbyid.php
Although nl2. does not appear to be working at all
 
11:49 AM
A joke.
 
@BasicBridge but IE9 is the most CO² efficient browser in the world. Proven fact.
 
@Gordon Is that because people don't use it? :D
 
@Leigh thanks for fixing the link on that answer
 
@Gordon I try and fix all language specific links when I see them
 
@Gordon might be. It even to support simple animations.
 
11:53 AM
 
@Gordon but u must admit IE(in the past... not any more) has done a lot for the growth of web development
 
@ShyamK yeah, it brought us Ajax
 
Actually, if you factor in all of the extra development time needed to cater for IE, it's not the most carbon efficient browser, hmm
 
@Leigh there was a press release from MS lately. they have it certified from a well known german institute
 
@Gordon CSS too... Netscape was going on with JSCSS or something like that
@BasicBridge we will miss you old 'friend'... now just die already
 
11:56 AM
@Leigh of course IE is IE, so … well :D
 
Well, IE 9 isn't really the most carbon efficient browser for OSX, Linux, Android, ...
 
@Leigh tbh, I dont care :) I just felt it was funny they had it certified. shows how irrelevant IE has become
if you cant score anywhere else, get carbon certified
 
I know you don't care, I don't care either, I just saw another opportunity to mock MS/IE.
And WTF at international PHP conference ticket prices...
 
Hey, has anyone run into PHP memory leak issues?
I am having a bad time, figuring it out
 
@AyushChaudhary code example please
 
12:03 PM
@MihaiIorga since you got 10k rep now I encourage you not to answer Date and Time related questions any more because they have all been answered. Find a dupe and close them instead please.
 
does pinging people out of chat really work like that?
 
@Leigh The code is slightly long, as it is doing too many things at once. The gist is - I have a csv file with say 2k records. These 2k records are coupons. I have to add them to a wordpress database
 
@AyushChaudhary How did you know there was a memleak? Did you run with a debug build of PHP?
 
@Leigh No I didn't. But the script has terminated a lot of time saying "Allowed memory..... exhausted"
 
That doesn't mean there's a memleak, it means your script ran out of memory
tons of reasons for that
 
PLB
12:05 PM
@AyushChaudhary If you have access to php.ini increase memory limit.
 
@Leigh The issue is when that script is running, the rest of the site almost stops responding
@Leigh Could it be the database load or could it be because the script is using too much memory?
 
again, more indicative of a server configuration issue, or your script taking 100% cpu, than a memleak
 
@Leigh How do I track that? I have already done ini_set("memory_limit", -1); (I know its a bad practice)
@Leigh What else should I look into?
 
profiling your script? finding the part that nukes your memory
 
using xdebug?
 
Sem
12:09 PM
@AyushChaudhary No, just commenting out bits of code and run it. There is not a jQuery plugin for every problem you know.
 
@Sem Haha, right. But isn't xdebug meant for that?
 
@AyushChaudhary Yes, I'd use xdebug, not directly on the server though. It slows everything down too much for that.
 
@Paul Okay, I'll try that
 
@AyushChaudhary Other simple diagnostic things to use would be microtime and memory_get_usage
 
12:14 PM
@Paul I have been trying memory_get_usage
Everytime a coupon is added, the memory gets increased by approximately 9000bytes
That shouldn't be happening right?
 
@AyushChaudhary is a coupon a 9000 character long string?
 
wtf @ the answer
-3
A: Javascript prototype definition... property not found?

Praveen KumarYour code is right. Try to hard refresh the page.

 
@Paul No. A coupon has a lot of data, I pass that to a wordpress function which adds it to the db
 
if you refresh the page and it still didn't work, you weren't trying hard enough.
 
@Paul The memory usage is after I get back from the wordpress function
 
Sem
12:18 PM
@AyushChaudhary Do you store information in an array instead of looping and cleaning the information? Just thinking here :)
 
hello
 
PLB
@Leigh Yes, refreshing page is not that easy.
 
@Paul @Sem Okay, another important thing I forgot to mention here is that - The script is triggered by a cron. Now the script has redirects, and I cannot use the command php filename/ for that
so I do a wget
Could that be an issue?
 
Sem
Dont have experience with that, sorry :)
 
@AyushChaudhary it sounds too complicated for me too without seeing it, but I have to go now, sorry.
 
12:22 PM
Am I doing this benchmark thing correctly? i.imgur.com/1Y8Sp.png
HELLO to all
 
Sem
Hey hey @webarto and I think that's correct.
 
Doctrine is like jQuery
@Sem I hope you are right :P
 
Sem
@webarto doh nvm that
 
;)
 
Sem
12:24 PM
:D
 
PLB
two seconds faster. :D
 
Sem
@webarto What's this static ORM you speak of sir.
 
Sir @Sem , port of KohanaORM/DB modules, with some added magic involved... like this find_one_by etc, I'm trying to replicate some functionality of Doctrine, so I can bury Doctrine forever... it's not static, that is factory...
 
Sem
@webarto fav'd, however - don't let @tereško see that <_< >_>
 
@Paul I just checked with a top command in the terminal. When the script runs, mysqld uses about 90% CPI
CPU*
 
12:32 PM
@Sem this MicroMVC framework is horrible, it's functional, but it's horrible... static everything, wtf... and now I'm using ZF1 with KohanaORM, and sort of happy...
 
you have managed to dig out Doctrine integration ?
or is that for private project ?
 
@Sem@Paul I just checked with a top command in the terminal. When the script runs, mysqld uses about 90% CPU
 
Sem
@AyushChaudhary Paul is gone remember? And I can't help you with that.
 
@Sem Sorry, thanks!
 
21 minutes and still open
 
1:33 PM
@GordonM Well, then you're just wrong :P
I changed my opinion on the topic slightly in the meantype, but type-strict hinting is still a no-go ;)
 
> typed hinted autoboxing for scalars can cure sick kittens
 
@edorian typed hinted autoboxing is racism
 
*meanwhile
 
@Gordon Seems like we're ready to post in @internals
 
1:46 PM
sorry..I know this is the php forum but there is nobody in the css forum. How can I remove the line underneath by nav? I can't find it anywhere! baggersoriginals.com
my**
 
@AndrewCharlton this aint no forum
 
Sem
@AndrewCharlton Only chit chat here :)
 
sorry guys...chat room ** :)
 
@AndrewCharlton that's in the background image
(of #header)
 
@AdamLynch I thought that, but I've just looked at the image and I can't see it
 
1:52 PM
Word
 
@Andrew Chalton
text-decoration: none
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/text.html
 
@ircmaxell What's the good word
 
@ircmaxell this is not the MS Office chatroom you are looking for
makes meaningful handwave
 
No? Ok, off to the other one
 
Also @ Andrew: your underline looks to be part of the background image.
 
1:56 PM
Yeah I'll mess about with the height of the header or change the background image to see if it makes a difference, thank you! :)
 
@AndrewCharlton It's the box-shadow of #top
 
@AdamLynch hmm, how can that be so?
the box shadow is only 2px
 
@AndrewCharlton wtf, I swear I was messing around in the Chrome console disabling CSS rules and that was the one that killed it
now it doesn't
 
@AdamLynch yeah I've changed the header height from 178 to 175px and that's seemed to have done the trick! I'm guessing it was the image?
 
@AndrewCharlton nah I'd say it's still there but you can't see it because it's white on white
 
Sem
2:03 PM
@AndrewCharlton It's the image yes :)
 
@AdamLynch I just don't know how the box-shadow could possibly affect it
 
@AndrewCharlton I'm not saying it's definitely that. Because I can't seem to hide it anymore, but maybe it's a combination of things
sorry I'm not sure
 
@AdamLynch It's fine dude, I appreciate your help! :)
 
Guys I have a problem with xml in php... when I say echo $meta2->nodeValue; it shows Address but when I say if ($meta2->nodeValue=="Address"){echo $meta2->nodeValue;} it does not show anything... Any ideas? nodeType=1
 
posted on September 06, 2012 by Anna Filina

My opinions are personal and do not reflect the opinions of any organization that I’m affiliated with. What happens when you post an announcement in the open source world? People get excited, they repost and they talk about it. What will these people do should multiple announcements hit the open source world? In my long experience running community projects, multiple news on the same topic di

 
2:14 PM
We really need to drop planet php from feeds :/
 
@Leigh I agree with Anna on this one
 
It's not PHP news
it's framework vs framework politics, and it's boring
 
@Leigh the frameworks are just the root cause for her writing the post but the general suggestion is independent of frameworks
 
I hate how the internals list gets obsessed about things that don't matter.
We bring up an AST and they cry performance loss.
Well, maybe.
But we can make programming so much easier if we had one!
There are so many syntactic optimizations that can be done with an AST!
 
They got performance gain with 5.4, most people didn't bother upgrading, they'll never even notice the loss caused by AST
 
2:17 PM
What's AST
 
@MikeB a sexy technique ;D
 
@MikeB abstract syntax tree
 
And anyone who cares about performance will be running APC and therefore only incur the additional cost once.
Why can't they see this?
 
@LeviMorrison That's exactly what I replied with, and stas jumped on it :(
 
@Leigh I like that Stas has been consistently involved with PHP development.
I really am grateful for that.
But every new helpful feature that has been brought, guess who tries to shoot it down?
Stas.
Every **** time.
 
2:20 PM
@LeviMorrison I'd rather be shot down by Stas than Lester :D
 
@Leigh Not me, everyone already knows Lester is a moron.
 
I guess you have a point there
 
I usually try to refrain from strong language, but seriously that guy I don't understand.
"I'm going to be actively involved on the internals list so I can try to prevent PHP from ever changing!"
 
Anthony had a really nice point I hadn't considered. Extensions being able to extend the language.
 
Yeah, that @ircmaxell dude is pretty smart.
 
2:21 PM
Dude, it's crowded in here already, don't make that ego any bigger :x
 
:)
Seriously, an AST allows this lovely syntax:
interface Person {

    int get id();

    string get name();

}

class PersonImpl implements Person {

    int $id; // creates get and set methods for id

    string $name;  // creates get and set methods for name

    __construct(int $id, string $name) {
        $this->id = $id; // calls the set id method
        $this->name = $name; // calls the set name method
    }

}
 
You don't need to convince me
 
That same code currently takes:
interface Person {

    /**
     * @return int
     */
    function getId();

    /**
     * @return string
     */
    function getName();

}

class PersonImpl implements Person {
    protected $id;

    /**
     * @var string
     */
    protected $name;

    /**
     * @param int $id
     * @param string $name
     */
    function __construct($id, $name) {
        $this->id = $id;
        $this->name = $name;
    }

    /**
     * @return int
     */
     function getId() {
        return $this->id;
And yes, I am including comments in the latter version because I feel they are needed.
 
Btw, I fear that @ircmaxell dude got it slightly wrong
At least I didn't understand his mail :/
 
@LeviMorrison well, i can see why people are reluctant to add features that allow for radically different syntax
 
2:24 PM
@NikiC Slightly wrong perhaps, but more right than Stas . . .
 
@LeviMorrison I didn't get it at all
 
@NikiC Hey, don't disappoint us now. He promised language extensibility via extensions. Now get coding ;)
 
In particular what the means by "syntax" vs "grammar"
 
@Gordon But the old syntax would still be valid, but for anyone wanting to use it you have the new, HIGHLY condensed, type-checked version.
 
extending the syntax via an extension is not in my plans
because that would require a vastly different (and slower) parser
 
2:27 PM
almost related, can a parser be written as an extension? (are you able to hook it the same way you can hook opcode handlers for example)
 
@Leigh sure
 
Nice :)
 
I just don't know how much sense that makes
or wait, do you mean currently?
 
> It also removes the need for the parser to worry about precedence. It's parsing for syntax only, and then lets the AST compiler step worry about operator precedence...
 
@LeviMorrison That's another thing I didn't get
I don't see why the parser wouldn't still do precedence handling
 
2:29 PM
@NikiC I meant currently, could you override the current parser with one supplied in an extension
 
@Leigh Don't think so. (Don't forget that the parser is actually a compiler)
You'd have to replace basically everything ^^
 
@LeviMorrison That looks strongly-typed to me. What additional functionality would be provided when saying int get id()? Would PHP internally raise errors when something other than an integer is returned?
 
@LeviMorrison fork it :)
 
@MikeB Maybe. More importantly than get is set(int $id);
@MikeB If you always require an int to be passed in, that means you should always get an int out.
 
@NikiC perhaps...
 
@LeviMorrison You mean in general or using your example?
 
@NikiC would setting zend_compile_file (and friends) not be enough?
 
@NikiC syntax is the structure of literals, operators and expressions. For example: public function foo() {} is really just literal literal literal() {}. So if I wanted to add an inline token in there, it would just be treated as a literal by the parser...
 
yeah
@Leigh That's why I mean by replacing nearly everything :D
 
You'd have to anyway
 
2:33 PM
meaning that you can thereby separate syntax (the structure of the code) from grammar (the rules of what comes where)...
 
uhm
@ircmaxell That might be a nice thing, but it at least wasn't what I had in mind
 
fair enough
 
Hey guys. Is it possible to create mysql join of two tables even though second table returned no results?
 
@MikeB Static typing in a language like PHP is most useful in function arguments and class members. This basically provides that static typing through getters/setters. Internally the variable will not be typed, but on its access points it is.
 
@BikerJohn LEFT JOIN ?
 
2:35 PM
@MikeB hm thanks
 
@LeviMorrison I'm a big fan of typing. I just wasn't clear on "If you always require an int to be passed in, that means you should always get an int out.". Wouldn't that make something like $user = $mapper->find(123); invalid?
 
@LeviMorrison how do you deal with reflection?
can it bypass those checks?
 
@MikeB I meant for getter/setters only :)
@ircmaxell Maybe. I'm still not set on anything in my proposal. I know it still has a lot of work to do.
 
@LeviMorrison Gotcha, my mistake. Had one of those moments were I started questioning everything I thought I knew to be true :p
 
Haven't thought about every angle yet (such as reflection).
@NikiC Lester still thinks generators are only useful for database access . . .
 
2:40 PM
@LeviMorrison I don't know why he complains about features of 5.5, at the same time he complains about lack of support for 5.2, which he will never move away from
 
@LeviMorrison You just used "Lester" and "think" in the same sentence
 
@NikiC He also admitted he's a dodo.
 
dodo's are extinct
 
@Leigh Apparently not.
 
@LeviMorrison I can't really say anything about that. I stopped reading any of his mail a bit ago. It's better for my health.
 
2:43 PM
Whats your guys take on the Zend Framework over say, cake or codeignitor?
 
@Pheagey I'd rather have cake
 
@Pheagey I'd say you are picking among poisons . . .
 
but I'd stay away from CakePHP
 
@Leigh brownies :)
 
@NikiC -special- brownies? ;)
 
2:44 PM
@Leigh I'll leave that unqualified ;)
 
@Pheagey I think a couple of us work with zF every day.. I don't believe the same is true for cakephp or codeigniter
 
@NikiC i wonder if nazis had originated in america, they'd be called brownies
oh … and
 
lol
 
any inherent dis-advantage with zF? I used cake a year or so ago and it was still maturing.
 
a cake that matures, did it have rum in it?
 
2:48 PM
@Pheagey Unless you can use a stable ZF 2.0 release I'd call that a disadvantage.
By the way, this is really funny: framework.zend.com/404
 
@LeviMorrison meaning zF 1 was unstable?
 
@Pheagey Meaning ZF 1 is not as good as ZF 2. This is biased, of course, as I haven't yet tried ZF 2.
From browsing the docs it seems to be better.
 
@LeviMorrison one would hope, right :)...
 
(disclaimer: ignorant question) how do you go about automate file-fetching behind a login? just curl and curl_setopt($ch, CURL_USERPWD, "user:pwd")?
 
Did someone really say generators are only useful for database access?
 
2:55 PM
@Lusitanian Lester Caine seems to think that.
Do you follow php-internals mailing list?
 
No, I don't.
His code on github is not pretty
 
I've used generators for database access since 5.0
Very limted amount of use cases but when the data set doesn't fit in memory it can be worth it
So without reading the post: Generators are always useful for data sizes > 5GB, even when the data comes from the database
 
nothing?
 
@edorian I'm not saying it isn't useful for db access, but poor Lester thinks that's the only use-case.
 
Oh. I missed the "only". My bad :)
I'm quite happy that php interators are also generators and have used them a lot since 5.0 for doing "bigger data" stuff, range generation and other things
 
3:04 PM
@Leigh Re your internals post: adding to an interface doesn't break the interface.
But extending the interface is a possibility as well.
 
@LeviMorrison people who implement the interface incompletely will have broken code.
You've added something to it, and they don't implement it.
 
@Leigh That is true. And if it is a concern then we have the other happy option of extending the original interface.
 
morning
 
That could get quite messy if new features are added over time.
 
3:09 PM
Any other webviewers for @internals than marc and the original one?
 
@LeviMorrison I'm only really asking because I've written the code that does that, and I never bothered to RFC it :p
@edorian I use gmail ;)
 
I can't find the larc link and the subscription doesn't work from $here
 
I actually need to unsub + resub at some point, since someone told me you can put +something in your gmail address and it will still get to you
 
@Leigh This is correct.
There isn't a lot of point, though.
 
@Leigh But why would you? The list header seems fine for filtering
 
3:11 PM
I think it was you actually :P - when I was talking about the fact you could put a . in it
 
Just check for To: internals@lists.php.net.
 
@edorian because I want to! it's the latest new and crazy thing I have to do!
 
youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs Ive got the watch these when I get home...
 
@Pheagey they'er awesome
 
The secret to scaling isn't horizontal or vertical... it's data corruption and starting from scratch.
 
3:20 PM
lol
 
Or if that isn't mean enough for you:
MongoDB annihilates the CAP theorem: we're strongly consistent, highly available, and network partitions rarely happen in practice
 
Saw a girl walking with a MongoDB backpack. If it’s like the technology, the odds of her stuff being in there when she gets home are slim.
Meh, I'm a fan of it though
 
youtube.com/watch?v=hEqQMLSXQlY&feature=related whatS!!! good thing I can LOL @ work and no one cares...
 
My next project makes heavy use of it. It's going to be fun to see the production differences between it and couch (well and redis and my/postgreSql)
 
Hey guys, are simple if/else clauses inside mysql data loop a good idea or are they very bad for performance. I have a loop with 5 repetitions, and i have to check whether fetched id is zero or else
 
3:25 PM
@JamaicaBob 1. why don't you just edit your select statement? 2. how can an id be zero? 3. are you using prepared statements?
 
its not actually an ID, its regular int column.
i just name it that way
so, i have to check if "id" is zero or not
 
@JamaicaBob Naming things correctly is important in communication
 
yes, i apologize
i will try to describe the whole situation
 
@NikiC, Dmitry is secretly hiding in here...
 
/dev/null is a the only fully web scalable distributed database with no limits on storage. It implements all SQL and noSQL functionality, including all that has been obsoleted and not yet implemented or considered. Write speeds are hardware-dependent (mostly dependant on your FSB and processor speeds). /dev/null has virtually no memory footprint and can be rolled out on any class of hardware and will run on any nix-based operating system. /dev/null is *the choice for any data store.
 
3:31 PM
@PeeHaa I have a select which left joins two tables. One table is house info and other are house images. When i print the results there is tooltip for every house which displays a house image. What i would like to do is to check if individual house has images or not. If not, tooltip is not displayed.
 
@JamaicaBob You can simply do an if to check
 
@PeeHaa okay, thank you
 
np
 
what is wrong with opacity in the first place?
 
3:45 PM
Anybody has knowledge about CSRF tokens? I don't think there is a solution for my problem (or I'm just not smart enough)
 
@webarto I'm not clicking on that link, I don't want to see religious bullshit, by choice or otherwise
 
@webarto Nope; It's a quite fun anecdote from a while back :)
@webarto did you see the issues related to the "docs deprication of mysql_*" Rasmus is going to have to pay quite some bills :)
 
@edorian hah, no, linkz?
@Leigh that guys posted -moz-opacity bug you've linked, I guess :)
 
3:50 PM
@webarto Well sure, I read the bug report, but no way am I going to be have my senses assaulted by his obvious failcascade website
 
@Leigh worst website you've seen in 1995, 10x that...
 
@webarto nope, can't find it
 
@edorian bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=50696 same/different?
 
@Leigh One of the good ones with the money quite :)
 
3:53 PM
------->>>>>>> 800 X 600 PX Browsers - CLICK VIEW - ZOOM OUT TWICE FOR BEST VIEWING - MIZPAH - > PLEASE READ SLOWLY < - Please wait for each page to load properly. Turn up the volume. Intense multimedia website. Be enthralled. Please be patient with each pageload - Pages will appear.
that's my favorite thing of ever
 
> Please escalate this to someone who can answer the question as to why this was changed. If no one knows, then why was default behavior changed?
lolski
 
> After carefully reviewing this bug report with our board of directors on 4chan
 
:D
 
> Escalate? Oh how I wish I had someone to escalate to.
 

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