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7:02 PM
@Dharman Because you have to wait until the user uses his sockpuppets again. If he has many of them, it's going to be really hard to detect sockpuppeting by looking for a pattern
 
That is how it works. You can't suspend someone before they do something wrong.
If you want to convict a user of cheating you have to gather enough evidence
So far for this user there seems to be none.
Mod tools and community tools only look for bigger patterns. If it is visible to us that someone is evidently cheating then mods can act upon it.
 
@Dharman Nah, why should I waste time gathering evidence while there are people volunteered to do that who also have better tools?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ What details does that need? Sure, the answer is "No, it's not possible", but the question seems clear to me.
 
I didn't say you should. Only if you want to. Otherwise leave it to mods and volunteers who do it on regular basis
 
7:13 PM
I raise a custom mod flag when I'm suspicious of voting fraud and never had a problem with it, nor had my flag declined
 
Sure, mods always take it seriously but it will be better if you explain your suspicions. They must have been based on something.
 
Yeah, in this case my suspicion is based on contrast between the number of upvotes and the post content/quality
 
Did anyone else just get a bunch of steward badges?
 
@NathanOliver In case you missed it meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/404840
 
Woot. Thanks
 
7:24 PM
@Letsintegreat That cv-pls doesn't have recent activity. Please see the FAQ for the relevant rule: "cv-pls is for questions that: ... have recent activity on the question (recent answers, edits not made by you, or suggested edits) [As used here, "recent activity" is considered to be activity within the last 6 months."
@NathanOliver Could you bin this request please? It doesn't have recent activity.
 
@cigien Thanks for pointing, will keep in mind now.
 
np. Thanks.
 
@cigien I am afraid, tha OP still struggles with a XY problem. They still deny to let us know what éxactly they want to do. Just to claim a demand to need something without being able (or willng) to explain why doesn't make much sense.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Uuu, I found the international keyboard user :D
 
7:32 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ But the OP has explained what they want to do. I agree they haven't explained why they want to do that, but that is not relevant. The XY problem guidance, IIUC is for questions where it's not clear what the OP wants to do, unless they explain why. That is not the case here. In general, OPs are not required to explain why they want to do something. Why do we even care, so long as the question is answerable?
 
@Dharman Is there any way one can see who upvoted?
 
@tink Nope
 
@cigien AFAIK, the XY problem can have many layers. OP wants to change the function many times, well why you want to do that?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I'm binning this request. There is no way the question is unclear or lacks detail of what they want to do.
 
@tink votes are private, only devs can see but they can't tell anyone else. Even then they can only view votes in very special circumstances.
 
7:34 PM
@tink No. Only certain CMs can request that information
 
So anyone else getting a butt-tonne of Steward badges?
 
Yeah
 
sigh It's OK @NathanOliver & @cigien. It's another useless Q&A IMO, but whatsoever ...
 
Steward badges for Sale!
 
I'm sure some are getting like 90 or so from the CV queue
 
7:35 PM
13 mins ago, by cigien
@NathanOliver In case you missed it https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/404840
 
ah
neato
 
Could an RO pin the link to the Meta or something that refers to the Steward badges? There have already been multiple questions about it in here.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ There is a lot "more usless" question out there then that one. At least it has generated 2 answers that have good information in them. That's not a bad thing
 
Ah, starring would work as well :)
 
sounds like a competition. Make the best (read: best combination of joke, informative, and dumb) message and I'll pin it!
 
7:37 PM
:D
 
If you are wondering why you have multiple new steward badges, see: Why did I just get a second Steward badge for the same queue?
14
 
So there's actually no way to tell genuine morons from sock-puppets ... unless the poor quality questions from the same user keep getting heaps of upvotes in a close time-frame (which is an indication but no proof)?
 
@NathanOliver Ah, perfect, thanks :)
 
@tink Or if there are other interactions between the accounts that would indicate some kind of pattern
 
cheers
 
@NathanOliver No, sure it isn't. Seems I was personally engaged too much to know why OP wants to do that, and if there's no alternative, which could be solved within the languages boundaries and features.
 
@Braiam Without getting into whether the Q&A is useful (I happen to think it's reasonably useful as it happens), I'm not sure why you're so concerned about why the OP wants to do whatever they want. cc @πάνταῥεῖ
 
@cigien Well, what could it be in this case (if parameters don't seem to work)? Dependency injection? There are way better ways to achieve that, even statically done at compile time.
But it's moot :-P
 
Is there any chrome extension for pre-formatted requests?
 
7:51 PM
@cigien I'm always concerned why someone wants to do something, specially when I can't figure out why isn't the simpler solution the solution.
 
@Letsintegreat Check the CV Request Generator at github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers
 
Oh userscript, Thanks!
 
I'm using the install link, and tampermonkey (@chrome)
 
I see
 
@Braiam Ok, that's reasonable. My concern is users voting to close questions because of that. I don't think you were making that argument, but if you're curious about why, asking the OP is fine. It's not a close reason, that's all.
 
8:01 PM
@cigien Oh, but it's a close reason. I'm not satisfied with the explanation, and I don't believe it's answerable until I'm satisfied.
Remember, close reasons exist for the happiness of the answerers, not of the askers.
 
There are no links in revision summary. Is writing a summary like this acceptable? stackoverflow.com/posts/65946122/revisions
 
@Dharman I don't justify myself in every action that I do. If anyone asks then I just link them to the relevant discussion, but otherwise I presume everyone knows what's acceptable.
 
If they did then I wouln't have to edit
 
@Dharman I've seen it been done before, can't see why it would be wrong.
 
@Dharman Well, I doubt OP actually reads any documentation before posting.
 
8:10 PM
@Letsintegreat You got a link to our GitHub repository, which is helpful, but will end up being a bit confusing, due to how the Request Generator is currently being released. There are two versions of the Request Generator the "release" version and the "alpha" version. Basically, everyone is recommended to be on the alpha version at this point, unless, and only unless, you need it to be compatible with Greasemonkey 4 on Firefox.
Note that the only reason that the "alpha" version is "alpha" is that it's not compatible with Greasemonkey 4 on Firefox, due to the substantial incompatibilities which Greasemonkey introduced when moving to Greasemonkey 4 from Greasemonkey 3.
 
@Dharman lol in mine it would just have been deleted 8 chars :)
 
@Braiam So to clarify: You would vote to close a question because you're not satisfied with the OP's explanation of why they want a solution to whatever it is they're asking about?
 
@cigien But of course. If you are locked into a specific solution you should explain why other solutions aren't possible. BTW, "my job policy is moronic" is a valid explanation
In that case, you know it's a bad solution, but you literally can't help it.
 
@Braiam How about "I'm curious if this will work"? Is curiosity a valid explanation?
 
@cigien Nope. This site isn't for entertainment, but practical questions.
 
8:26 PM
@Braiam Fascinating. I find programming extremely entertaining, and I've never really been paid to write code in my life, so I don't have any practical need. I didn't know this site wasn't meant for me, and more importantly, I didn't know this kind of a judgement was meant to be used as a reason to close a post.
The [language-lawyer] folks are going to be rather unhappy with this, I must say.
 
@cigien One thing is that you find entertaining, other is that you are looking for us to entertain you
ie. there's not problem solved, no goal other than for your amusement.
@cigien Eh? Why? They are defining in a very specific language what is expected.
I find that practical. You know what is expected when you do things.
Again, you can ask a practical question and be entertained.
 
I really don't follow. If I find solving a programming problem entertaining, what's the problem with that? I can't ask questions about it unless I also demonstrate that it has some other goal? And so that we don't get too theoretical, this is the question we're talking about. Yes, the OP has not explained why they want the answer; maybe it's just for their amusement. So what?
 
@cigien Do I really need to repeat myself?
 
@Braiam Of course not. That doesn't seem to prevent you from doing it anyway.
It seems we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, which is perfectly fine.
 
Well, then I find that you aren't capable of seeing the fact that you can achieve multiple goals with a question.
 
8:34 PM
Sure, you can achieve multiple goals with a question My point is, what's the problem if entertainment is the only goal for the OP? So long as the question is answerable, and useful to add to the repo, why do we care?
 
Because you are literally taking us as a clowns that only exist for your entertainment. You don't even care that it gets a good answer.
That's not respectful use of our time, that we are literally giving out for free, for something that you could easily done yourself elsewhere.
 
you both are not going to come to any conclusion... I think at a certain point members just do what they think is right... and there will be always people that think is wrong...
 
You need to pretend that you are "talking to a busy colleague".
 
That's why it needs more then vote...
 
(General advice to anyone who could use it - please try to stick to respectful dialogue here - there's no value in having a heated exchange)
 
8:41 PM
@halfer Thanks for advice I will go back to editing..
 
@Braiam I think I see where you're coming from; you're concerned that an OP might not be taking you seriously, or valuing your time. Personally, so long as the question is reasonably well asked, and the language is polite, I don't really care if the OP is actually having a laugh about the whole thing.
 
@cigien That's just the last straw on the list of bad things you can do while asking questions. Put it this way: you are asking for something hard and unintuitive that takes lots of effort, asked why you would want that to see if our effort are well utilized, you just respond that you are bored and wanted to be entertained. No one wants their efforts to go to a task that have no reason at all.
In the Q&A business there's tons of efforts that answerers have to put forward, at least have the decency of having a meh reason why they should invest themselves into helping you.
 
8:57 PM
@Braiam To create the Q/A lib?
 
@PetterFriberg ;=)
 
aah true I was supposed to be editing...
 
(Gotcha!)
 
ooh yeah.,
 
@PetterFriberg Which moves us to the start of the discussion: tools are built around maximizing the happiness of answerers, and if they don't feel happy answering questions, why would they answer any question at all :shrugs:
 
8:59 PM
The tools are called virtual internet points :)
 
I doubt close votes are virtual internet points ;)
 
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated Aawww, it is capped at 20?
 
but yeah everyone have a motive, personally I answer what I find interesting and useful (according to my measure) and I don't really care about OP's problem :), but I think is ok to answer also because you like to help
@rene Don't worry you still have 5 to go...
 
9:12 PM
@Braiam Actually, the primary reasons I answer questions is because I'm bored and I find solving programming problems to be very entertaining (also helping people out gives me a kick). I don't actually feel the need for the OP to demonstrate that they have any profound reason to solve their problem. The OP might be asking the question because they're bored themselves and don't have anything better to do. I don't really care.
OTOH, you have a very valid POV: you don't like it when the OP doesn't provide a reason for why you should spend your valuable time and effort answering their question. In that case, you should downvote the question, and maybe leave a comment that you don't like the OP's attitude (try to frame that constructively). Definitely don't spend any of your valuable time trying to answer that question. Move on to another question which you feel is worth your time.
But please don't vote to close those questions. Apart from the fact that there's no close reason for this case, other users like myself would like to actually answer those questions.
 
@cigien Well, good for you, but don't ask questions because you are bored.
if answerers don't feel happy with your reasons, don't complain that they closed the questions. Because answeres happiness > whatever boredom you have.
 
@Braiam This is the second time in this conversation where you've stepped a bit over the line of what's appropriate. Please moderate your tone and how you convey your opinions.
 
@Braiam Why not? That's literally the reason for every single question I've asked on SO. Well, at least all the [language-lawyer] questions I've asked, which is a vast majority of them. No one has asked me why I want to solve those problems, but the answer would be that I was bored (I would say "curious" if someone actually asked though). I really don't see the problem with that.
 
@cigien Nope, it's not. I ask questions because I have a problem and no solution.
 
Same
I only ask a question when I have a problem that needs to be solved
 
9:19 PM
bad you should ask when you have the solution as I do :)
 
However I don't see any problem with asking a question because you are bored, so long as it's an interesting question that fits the site's rules.
 
@Braiam I'm not sure what the "Nope, it's not" is referring to specifically, but to clarify, you're more than welcome to ask questions only when you have a problem to be solved. I'm just not clear why others shouldn't ask questions because they're bored.
 
@TylerH I would love someone asking a question and saying that the only reason they asked is because they are bored.
 
@Braiam I get the impression you don't read the questions posted in [language-lawyer] ;)
 
Let's move on... I don't think SO have a general rule that you need to state your reason...
 
9:21 PM
@Braiam I wouldn't, since that's fluff and should be removed :-)
 
@cigien It seems that you aren't even sure why you post questions.
You keep saying that you are only posting questions because you are bored. I kept noting that you can have more than one reason, whenever you know it or not.
 
I can't really see why you care about the reason why someone ask... but yeah we have different views..
 
@PetterFriberg Well, because if you are asking for a solution that has no reason to exist... people are going to be very curious why you want that.
 
@Braiam some maybe many will not care.. What impact have the reason on final result? If question is good is good if not is not...
 
@Braiam I'm very sure. It's because I'm bored, and I find solving programming problems to be an entertaining way to spend my time. It seems you're suggesting that I actually have deeper reasons that I myself am unaware of. That's possible, but a fairly strong claim to make. What other reasons do you think I have for asking questions?
 
9:25 PM
@PetterFriberg A boring question isn't good. ;)
@cigien Except that you aren't solving them, others are doing it for you.
That's why I suspect you don't know why you are doing it, because you don't even get the satisfaction of solving the problem yourself.
 
@Braiam The question is fun but the person asked it because they had night mare... and then what.. baah I never asked myself before answering "Why do you ask this?, are you happy?, are you bored?, do you have a mustache?? baah next time I will try to make sure OP is having fun
 
@PetterFriberg You are focusing in the wrong thing.
 
I'm bored
 
@Braiam You have previously been told that oneboxing messages which were recently posted is not acceptable in this room, particularly when they are your own.
 
@PetterFriberg Hi, Bored!
 
9:30 PM
@PetterFriberg Well, apparently I can't have a discussion about something.
So, it seems that you will be unable to continue trying to understand my point of view.
 
Your POV is more or less forced upon us, whatever it takes
 
@rene Nope, people keep asking questions. I just try to be nice and explain myself.
I'm always open for a constructive discussion.
But obviously, someone disagree.
 
The niceness has worn of 30 minutes ago. Can we move on?
 
@rene If someone ask me again, don't I have to respond?
That's like basic courtesy.
 
Oh @Braiam please move on or take it to the Ministry if you so much want to drag this on. That is courtesy.
 
9:39 PM
@rene Nobody invited me to do so.
 
Awesome. Then we are done I guess. Let's move on.
 
10:09 PM
This is interesting stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/28200168 + stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/28200169 as you can see you reject for lack of usage guidance on first but not on second... I wonder if this is a bug
You make a tag wiki edit and then you edit it slightly and no one can't reject anymore for lack of usage guidance...
 
@PetterFriberg One is the excerpt, one the full wiki. Usage guidance reason only applies to former.
 
Fortunately, I don't think the Badger Bot is running in SOBotics at the moment. If it were, it would no doubt be suffering the electronic equivalent of a multiple stroke attack, with all these new Steward badges appearing.
 
@BaummitAugen aah true thanks!
 
10:34 PM
@halfer What details does that need exactly? It looks very clear to me.
 
10:47 PM
@cigien The "What query or formula should I go with" is too open-ended, IMO.
 
@halfer Do you mean there be might be multiple possible solutions?
 
@cigien Not really - just that with no effort apparently having been made, the user doesn't even know what to ask for. "Needs Focus" would be appropriate for the same reason.
 
@halfer I agree there's no effort been shown, but the OP has made it crystal clear what they want. They've described the desired behavior, and shown an example input and output which matches the problem description exactly. It's also asking for a very specific query, and I don't think it needs any additional focus.
 
@cigien Fair enough, I'll concede the point, and downvote.
 
@halfer Thank you. Would you consider asking for the cv-pls request to be binned as well?
 
11:01 PM
@halfer @rene Could I trouble you to zap this request?
(On it cigien :=))
 
Thanks :)
Technically, TylerH is on the hook, but the ROs don't generally seem to care who gets pinged :p
 
I tend to just ping the last one that posted.
 
Yeah, that's TylerH, right?
 
... which may have been Tyler. Posting while tired!
 
:) No worries, an RO will see it whenever.
 
11:03 PM
It's time I Netflixed, 11pm here. Night all o/
 
For sure if you don't close it you need to edit it Halfer... like it is currently it's useless for others :)... nothing to search on
 
Do you mean the title of the question?
 
Not sure how many will search on "Query or function help on gsheet for Alex" :D
everyting is bad.. there is no text to search on... If you like to keep it you should fix it.. most probably it's also a dupe
 
I edited the title a bit. Is it better now?
 
baah according to me it needs text that explains the problem specifically... otherwise it just like this stackoverflow.com/questions/41497959/…
but yeah I was mostly joking with Halfer... he edits everything :)... look at his stats
 
11:10 PM
Ah, I see. I didn't get that joke :p As to the question, I believe the text in the question body is sufficiently descriptive. And yes, it does look like the other question you linked, but I suspect there are probably lots of questions with similar-ish titles.
 
and similar solutions :)
There is actually tons of stuff about google sheets on webapps.stackexchange.com I have never seen that site before.. :)... can we migrate it to them :D
 
11:32 PM
Did the queue in Meta change style?
... or did my browser malfunction?
 
@AnnZen See pinned message by Makyen
 
11:47 PM
@Braiam oh, thanks!
I didn't know ROs could pin more than one message.
 
AFAIK, there's no limit.
 
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