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5:15 PM
@cigien - I'm OK with it being deleted ... while I guessed what he wants correctly his question is still crap. Not that dependent on keeping rep ;)
I just couldn't handle seeing the poor responses =D
 
@tink Sure, you could vote to close a question, and also answer it if you want, though I would be wary of making that a habit. Regardless, requests on posts that you're involved in is not allowed here.
 
Oooops ... but I had voted to close before I answered? I think ....
Vote retracted
 
@tink Yes, and in fact you made the request about a minute before answering I think. Nonetheless, if you do decide to get involved after posting a request, you need to ask an RO to trash it first.
@tink Again, it's not your vote that's the issue, you could even leave that in. It's the cv-pls request I'm referring to.
 
@cigien Yep:: "If you make a request and later desire to become involved in the post, you must @ ping at least one active RO to ask to have your request removed."
 
Aight ... do we have a room owner who could remove my request present? :}
 
5:22 PM
@Nick Right, sorry, I should have linked to the relevant bullet in my response. Thanks for the link :)
 
@tink Better add a link to the request
 
does this come under customer support? (NATO)
 
@tink You should ping the last active RO as well. Nathan I think in this case.
 
How do I get a link to that request? I don't get a "reply" in the popup (is that because it's my own?)
@NathanOliver - are you still here? I made a booboo ...
 
You can click on the down arrow next to the request. There's a permalink button there that will give you the link.
 
5:27 PM
@tink what's up?
 
@NathanOliver I produced a close-vote and then answered the question :(
Can you please removed my vote from the chat room?
 
Aha. Problem solved
 
Thank you =}
 
5:31 PM
@tink Minor note on terminology, just so it's not confusing to others, "vote" is what you do on the post. The cv-pls thing you do in this chat room is a "request".
 
Thanks. I sit corrected.
 
:D
 
5:43 PM
So it turns out that reflagging the users whose reputation gain was never reversed actually makes sense
 
5:54 PM
Is this an NAA? (From 2014..)
 
@cigien The flag is still pending, but I just decided to post the question anyway
 
Nice. Is the "new contributors" bit relevant to your question, perhaps because of getting them started on the right foot, or something? If so, you might want to make that clearer.
 
@Scratte i thought so ;)
 
I think it is relevant, as we could ask >50 rep users to just add a comment instead.
 
@tink It's always nice to find these old gems :)
 
5:59 PM
@Scratte heh. Something like that ;)
 
@janw It's not possible to add such a big comment.
 
@Scratte Well, they could leave two comments ;)
 
I think it should stay because it points out flaws of all the other answers. I look at it this way: Users that read this one will also read the others, so it's part of the thread.
 
@Scratte But SO is not a discussion forum. If the other answers a wrong, write a better one. Don't post an NAA.
3
 
@JeanneDark Maybe there is no solution.
It's not uncommon to start a post referencing another. Usually people start by saying "This other Answer didn't work for me, but.. " or "I'd like to add to this other Answer, that.."
 
6:02 PM
@Scratte There is: Deleting it.
@Scratte That's ok if you then include your own answer
 
Given the first posted answer, and who posted it, I'd say the flag's getting declined :p
 
Yes! Robert Harvey agrees with me. I must be doing something right :D
Or.. I agree with Robert Harvey :)
 
I disagree with you so you must be doing something wrong ;)
 
@JeanneDark Yeah.. sorry. I'm more in the "We do not delete good content. We do not delete good content." camp.
2
 
@Scratte Where? Citation required! In my experience, Robert Harvey never agrees with anyone - just not his style. However, your auto-correction may be better: He allows people to agree with him, or to share his opinions - even if you expressed those opinions first.
 
@AdrianMole heh
 
@AdrianMole Yes.. I realized my mistake, which is why I corrected it. I'd do the same with Cody. If we agree on something, then Cody doesn't agree with me. I agree with Cody ;)
 
Good - you're learning! Now I'll have to find some of your posts to upvote! ;-P
 
@AdrianMole Wait.. what?!?.. That's just evil :)
 
6:37 PM
Well - blame the wine! Today I'm on a Rioja - which is made from the Tempranillo grape. Check the meaning of that!
 
Apparently it's synonymous with Valdepenas.
 
... but the meaning I'm thinking of (learnt from a Spaniard) is apparently quite obscure: "Little madness" or "mischievous."
 
@AdrianMole So, you're really a grape plant, but incognito as Adrian?
 
I can be a vine. No problem.
 
@Scratte How did this NAA last so long? How did it get to that score?
 
6:43 PM
@Dharman Assuming you helped, I'm guessing others did what you did ;) Except for flagging it, of course.
 
@Dharman Is 'mercy killing' allowed - I can post a [del-pls], if so.
 
A mod should remove it soon
 
The poster's rep will go from ~400 to ~440 if/when it goes pink.
 
Waht?
 
... but they don't seem to be active for a few years.
 
6:45 PM
20 * 2 = 40
 
... oops - miscalculation.
 
@AdrianMole the Rioja kicking in ? :)
 
Nah - old age!
 
^ ah... no calculator...
 
my calculator says 20 * 2 = 64 ?!?
 
6:48 PM
that's it, more or less
 
@AdrianMole Did it also get some of the Rioja?
 
I'm too mean to share.
 
I guess I am not allowed to request del-pls for answers I don't agree with, right?
 
I think it's fine. Make your reason explicit in the request, and users will review it. So long as you're voting to delete it in good faith, I don't see why a request would be a problem.
 
@cigien, you had a whole thing on meta where people told you that they don't want to delete too much.
 
6:55 PM
They did, and I'm trying to account for that. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop deleting things entirely.
 
If you feel that an answer is 'dangerously' wrong or misleading, then [del-pls] requests are fine, IMHO. (I did one yesterday for an answer that used #include <bits/stdc++.h> and users here obliged.)
 
Also, mostly people are unhappy about deletions being shoved in their faces. I suspect they would be equally upset if they looked at the graveyard :p
@AdrianMole Great example. I would downvote for sure, and wait for the OP to fix it, and then vote to delete if they didn't.
 
Unfixable, in that case. The whole point of the answer was to use that header! Eeek!
 
Huh, really? That's very strange. And sad.
 
Question went along the lines, "How do I know which STL headers to include...?" Answer was: "Don't bother, use that ugly one!"
 
7:01 PM
Wow, I'm surprised that you even had to make the request. I'd expect C++ watchers to have burnt that down before you got the chance.
 
I came across it in either First Posts or Late Answers - see for yourself.
 
Just a note here: If you really think it's a horrible way to solve the problem, then downvoting and commenting is much better than deleting. When you delete it, no one will know about what not to do. If it's sitting there as a "solution" with a negative score and a comment saying "This is really bad" new learners will learn.
 
@Dharman Ok, the second comment I made in response to this was unfair. I don't think users would be equally upset. There aren't that many highly upvoted/viewed del-pls requests posted here.
@Scratte Oh, no worries, there's a canonical for this :) It goes into excruciating detail as to why that's a bad idea.
 
I just recently found a Answer saying to apply specific a comment to do something in git. Trouble it that it will effectively remove every file in the repository. It's sitting there as a warning :)
 
@Scratte Mixed feeling about that. I can see your angle but I can also see the "remove content that does harm" angle.
 
7:06 PM
@AdrianMole Yes, but it's less harmful with a note attached :) The problem is when there's no note attached at all and users try it out. Or if it's there intentionally to be harmful.
 
@AdrianMole Damn, that took 4 hours to delete. But only because it was on a 4 year old answer. On a new post, I give that answer 15 mins tops.
 
Like the windows script a few months ago that just goes through your file system and deletes every file.
 
And therein lies the conundrum. Bad answers that are (inexplicably) upvoted are much harder to delete.
@cigien 15 seconds, even! :)
@Scratte Was that one that I raised in here? Seems to ring a bell but my memory has been erased.
 
@AdrianMole Haha, possibly. Though I would leave a comment first, and wait for the author to see the error of their ways. So instant downvote and then about 5 mins before I cast my delete vote.
 
@AdrianMole No idea who raised it.. I can try to search.
 
7:09 PM
If you remember it from here then it was the one I brought it. From a review queue or Natty.
@cigien I can think of 20+ C++ regulars who'd downvote such an answer in a heartbeat.
 
@AdrianMole I actually remembered the details wrong. It creates files until it runs out of space. It was you that brought it here :)
 
@AdrianMole Does an answer get deleted when it gets a certain number of downvotes?
 
@cigien I'm sorry, I'm lost. Which comment?
 
@cigien Not sure. Maybe it gets attention flags for mods - dunno?
 
7:13 PM
@Dharman This one. It was more flippant than I intended it to be.
 
This room is quite flippancy-compliant.
 
@AdrianMole That won't make a difference. It's definitely not NAA, or anything else so it won't get deleted. I think it might take 5-10 mins for that. Hopefully the OP won't take it seriously in the interim.
 
As a penance you must find one delete-worthy PHP question :D
 
Deal :)
 
You can also get a summary of highly upvoted/downvoted recent posts in your Moderator Tools page.
 
7:15 PM
@cigien No.. I'm pretty sure an Answer or a Question can go to -32477 without raising any auto-flags.
 
^ On Meta, for sure!
 
@AdrianMole I've noticed ;) I'm not a fan of doing that needlessly though. In this case, while I'm annoyed that users are going with their gut feelings rather than valid (IMO) reasons to choose to delete or not, those concerns are reasonable, and I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing them by being flippant.
@Scratte Now I want to know what the lowest scoring non-deleted answer on SO is. Should be a straightforward query to run.
 
Perfect, thanks. There's even a comment on the answer congratulating the author :) Oh, and it's an accepted answer. Cool.
Oh, it's a self-answer. Much less cool.
 
@cigien AND it's net positive rep score
 
7:23 PM
@Vickel Oh, yeah, good point. I wonder what the most down-voted answer is. That might be a considerably trickier query to run though.
 
@cigien Now I worry you're just going to delete it.
 
@cigien I'm not good with SEDE queries, but looking at the next answers, those with -61, they all represent most likely negative scores...
 
Ah, that is a downvoted answer huh.
 
@Makyen chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/50978532#50978532 let me now if you see troubles so I know how to act in room (cc @Scratte)
 
7:31 PM
@PetterFriberg Isn't it Turkey-Holiday in the USA?
... maybe all the Admins are busy with their celebrations?
 
@AdrianMole that's next week
 
@TylerH OK. Here in the UK, we give Thanks for the USA's independence from our control on a fairly regular basis. xD
4
 
@AdrianMole Likewise :-)
 
hehe
 
though it comes to an annual head on July 4th each year
 
7:36 PM
Turkey-Day is about the landing of the Pilgrim Fathers, is not?
 
sort of
it's actually a harvest festival
a lot of the iconography around it involves pilgrims and native americans, though
 
^ huh that's something I didn't know
 
^interesting the adoption by the Brazilians of an American ritual
 
From my (albeit limited) travels in Brazil, I get the impression they don't really need much of an excuse to have a party! :)
 
7:47 PM
@AdrianMole best example: the only other real Oktoberfest, held in Blumenau, state of Santa Catarina
 
Stein and Samba - recipe for mad fun!
 
where Oktoberfest seems to follow "Erntedankfest", which is a synonym of Thanksgiving and held early October in Germany
 
8:01 PM
hi i have joined this chat room for the first time, and have read the faq. is there any sort of sign-up required to join?
@eyllanesc duplicates are automatically flagged for moderators
 
We require a fee of 5 cv-pls requests
 
@Baby_Boy mmm I do not understand you. Explicate better Please
 
@Baby_Boy Only absolutely exact (down to the last character) duplicates.
... here, we're more concerned with different posts that ask the same underlying question.
 
oh sorry (im new.... pls don't hate me)
 
We know you're new. Even if you weren't, you have given no reason for us to even remotely dislike you.
 
8:06 PM
@Baby_Boy welcome, nobody is going to hate you here
 
Somebody with a username like "Weed Killer" may fall foul of a certain Room Owner.
 
Rodents don't like weed killers either. You know that stuff goes into nuts as well.
 
Mmmm - stuffed nuts. It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.
 
I'll go nuts if I wan't already. Maybe I can get nuttier?
 
8:39 PM
@eyllanesc is that really the best target? It is a duplicate of another question which itself is also a duplicate of another question. I really hate to see that kind of long trail to the best answer...
they mucked up the icon sprites again...
 
@TylerH If you can find the origin of that post then use that duplicate
 
@TylerH They do it to mess with user scripts and other user modifications.
 
@Baby_Boy In case it wasn't clear, most of the responses you've received so far have been joking around. There are no specific requirements to joining the room (beyond being able to participate in chat). You will, however, find that how much you can contribute wrt. flagging/voting to close/etc. will be limited by the amount of reputation you have on Stack Overflow, just because the ability to do some things comes with more reputation.
Thank you for reading the FAQ. We appreciate you taking the time to do so. Unfortunately, that's a step some people who are just joining ignore.
 
should I perhaps read the FAQ now?..
 
What's FAQ?
... fully annotated quorum?
 
8:53 PM
Foreign Assets Questionnaire
 
Careful - my tax avoidance evasion schemes are quite precarious.
 
Asshats? Tsk tsk tsk
 
Does anyone know if this graphql question is sufficiently narrowly scoped, or if there's a dupe?
 
@AdrianMole I'm mostly assuming you're asking for fun, but just in case you're not: FAQ = "Frequently Asked Questions". However, in our case, the document is structured more as a list of rules/guidelines and Read Me First than as an actual FAQ (i.e. something structured as questions with answers).
 
@tink I have one. I just only rarely wear it.. it's great to avoid sunburns when gathering strawberries in the nearby nudist camp :)
 
8:56 PM
LOL
 
@Scratte Should I ask what you call the hat that goes on the other side? :)
 
/me is trying to poke his mind's eye out
 
@Makyen Sure, I'm joking. But (maybe relevant to @cigien): How do you pronounce "FAQ?" I've come across "far queue" (which, with little imagination, becomes quite rude).
 
@AdrianMole Fack!
 
@AdrianMole - like most acronyms: EFF A QUEUE
 
8:58 PM
"Far Queue" huh. Scottish?
 
@Nick Nothing obviously :)
 
Wrong Nick - What happened to the Bunny wi' the Big Blue Eyes?
 
Note by the way, SOCVR is a perfectly reasonable place to discuss pronunciations, unlike main ;)
 
@AdrianMole gone back to its warren?
 
Who's Warren?
 
9:00 PM
LOL
 
That you'd have to ask Nick...
 
Sorry - Whose warren?
 
its ...
 
@Makyen Thank you very much for the clarification on attribution. Not only did it make the meta post vastly better by providing context, but the rationale you provided also made me realize that I've not always been doing it appropriately. Not just on SE and related sites, but in general. One would think since I'm in academia I'd have a better grasp on this, but apparently not. This is the second time I've needed reminding, but hopefully it won't be needed again.
 
@AdrianMole I pronounce it fac, as in fact without the t.
 
9:05 PM
@AdrianMole yeah them Adrians :) ...
 
The plural of "Adrian" is "Adrian" - we are a Majestic Collective.
 
@AdrianMole Personally, I've always pronounced it as Nick stated: "fack", which rhymes with "lack", "back", "sack", etc.
 
^ ahh.. thanks. Much better explained. You forgot snack ;)
 
@Baby_Boy Welcome to the room, hang around and post a cv-pls when you flag something duplicate.
 
@cigien I'm glad I was able to help. I agree that it makes the post better, and generally makes things better when used. We're all standing on other people's shoulders to get where we are today. It's good to be able to follow things backward, if someone wants to.
 
9:11 PM
Does need to be "nipped in the bud"? I saw the tag-wiki earlier in the edits queue and skipped. But now I'm having second thoughts.
 
was brainfuck nipped in the bud?
 
I hate that. But, from a wee bit of Googling, it seems like a real thing.
 
@JohnDvorak please edit to remove 1 word, per room rules.
 
@bad_coder If a Python script gives you an answer you didn't expect - just rerun/recount?
 
which rule are you referring to?
 
I do hate that TrumpScript exists...
Note Streissand effect. By trying to forcibly remove the language's existence, you might find it inadvertently popularizing it instead.
I do however believe the tag isn't notable enough to warrant its existence. Unfortunately, removing it would leave its sole question untagged.
 
We may not be able to change the outside world but we can reject new tags on Stack.
 
In which case you do have to assign a different tag to that question
 
Python?
 
9:21 PM
Is it a Python dialect, or just similar?
 
Not really ... I'm clutching at very long straws. I just want the tag gone.
 
How serious are you about that?
 
Either closing it or downvoting it would trigger a roomba, which would orphan the tag, which would then get roomba'd some time later
IIRC
 
I looked at it, but I'm not sure it's closable. If others want to take a crack, feel free, but I didn't see anything obviously wrong
 
But the question, of itself (with a bit of editing) doesn't look so bad.
 
9:23 PM
@JohnDvorak Yes, but.. deleting stuff isn't really a solution.
 
There's a [humor] tag (total of 0 questions).
 
If you think it's not useful, it would have to be because the language isn't useful. Not sure I'm willing to apply that rule myself.
 
^ Can't disagree, unfortunately. Maybe I'm being too 'partisan'?
 
If you do believe it isn't useful, then the question will vanish in 30 days
 
But there's an inherent problem with deleting things just because we don't like them.
 
9:26 PM
It's not likely to attract much attention, with just that tag, so maybe just let Roomba slowly do its stuff.
 
as is, it won't roomba it's been downvoted now.
 
And there was me thinking languages like brainfuck, whitespace, and piet were a dumb idea ...
 
I think Roomba will pick it up in 360, no?
 
@AdrianMole Here's a question you might like then ;)
 
^ Pfft.
 
9:27 PM
According to the roomba script, >28 views kicks it out of the yearly roomba
 
@JohnDvorak Yeah, that was funny for 1 minute...(The joke does stop being funny after that.)
 
@JohnDvorak Really? I thought is was less than some average view per day.
 
I'm loathe to downvote it for the wrong reason: OP looks like a decent contributor.
 
Honestly, I think we need a Meta post. Esoteric languages like brainfuck are one thing, but esoteric joke languages that merely change the syntax of a standard language (like Arnold C) should IMO be restricted
 
@Machavity Oh, there isn't already a meta on this?
 
9:29 PM
@Machavity What's wrong with them? They're still programming problems, no? What if I decide to base my entire new system on TrumpScript?
 
@Machavity maybe it's better to avoid the "Streissand effect" mentioned above...If it stops being funny just nuke.
 
@Machavity here the pronunciation issue kicks in again... :)
 
@Scratte I can't quote the "burnination" rule from memory, but I'm sure a tag like that, invented for just one question, breaks it.
 
@Scratte I would recommend against that choice
 
@JohnDvorak The transition period would be difficult, to say the least.
 
9:31 PM
@JohnDvorak Please node that opinions get deleted ;)
 
I mean, here. Not in an answer. I might still consider your question not useful though.
 
@AdrianMole It wouldn't be just one, would it? I mean 271 developers all having problems with it is going to probably ask a few Questions..
 
@Scratte it's not exactly an opinion, that T-script stuff was just a political statement in disguise, not really programming related. So you can consider it a form of spam...I'm left feeling it wasn't worth my 2 or 3 minutes (and I'm generally a patient guy for VLQ stuff.)
 
Ooh - Just noticed that the question did have the [python] tag but it was edited out by a reasonably high-rep user.
 
Anyways, the Streissand effect is kicking in already, by virtue of us having a vivid discussion about it here ;)
 
@bad_coder If someone can find use for it then it's not just an opinion. Perhaps someone that doesn't speak english and have no idea that the words have meaning in English is using it.
 
@Scratte unlikely. The documentation for TS is ... lacking. Instrumentation, too.
 
@JohnDvorak Ahh.. well, I suppose it need to be enhanced then ;) Wonder if Stack accepts programming questions about creating languages and compilers/interpreters.
 
As long as they are reasonably scoped
 
I added a comment, out of respect for the OP.
 
9:40 PM
Of course. I imagine at least 268 Questions to cover it all :D
 
Language design, however, would quickly get closed as POB.
 
... I'm gonna need that second bottle of grape juice, I can tell!
 
how about Mojito beer?
 
You mean it's a bad idea to ask if I should let my new language resolve the leftmost or the rightmost expression first? Or leave that undefined because c is so pretty when it gets confused? :)
 
@Scratte analyses of this goes along the lines of "click-bait fraud" you expect one thing, it turns out being another thing. So you were deceived on purpose.
 
9:42 PM
click-bait is a type of fraud? I do guess it makes sense, but does it mean we can sue every newspaper ever? Intent, check. Unjust profit, check. Unjust harm to the clicker, nominal but check.
 
@bad_coder They never experienced the internet to grow into an everyday necessity.
 
@JohnDvorak in case of media, if they try it twice they lost 1 reader (for good). There are lots of interesting news outlets that don't get my click because they lacked integrity twice.
 
@Scratte how could you back in the days? there was FAX
 
Sometimes it's blatantly clickbait, but I still click because I want to find out in which exact way it is misleading or hyperbolical.
 
Anyway, I read the page. I'm not inclined to spend time on it trying to make anything work with it. What I'm trying to say is that getting rid of it on Stack because one just doesn't like it, is not a good idea. It's censorship in the worst way. It's the same when users delete Answers on meta.
 
9:48 PM
what if we're trying to get rid of it because there's only one question of it flat, and no prospect of any more arriving?
 
@JohnDvorak A Mojito or a beer. But ... mixing them? Uurrgh.
 
We all have different opinions of what we like. If we delete what we think is not useful just from what we like or that we (oneself) doesn't find useful, instead of seeing if maybe someone else finds it useful too, then all of Stack can go. There's no post where everybody likes it.
@JohnDvorak Was the post bad? Getting rid of a post to get rid of a tag?
 
@Scratte You do realize the language is purely a joke, right? The restrictions are Trumpian but unusable for most applications.
 
@Machavity Yes. I read the page. I am also aware that I come off like a complete nutcase ;)
 
Hah! Trump-stuff: out. Washing-machines: in. (You'd have to have been in SOBotics recently, to get that!)
 
9:53 PM
But.. we now have several different users linking to it from this chat. All of those linking to it is saying it's a complete joke and not to use it :D
 
The Meta Effect has evolved: We now have "The SOCVR effect."
 
@Scratte I think your point is valid. I suspect many users would be opposed to a tag with trump in the name, even if there was a serious esolang with that name. And it's not about trump per se, but any tag with a name that users might object to for personal reasons. There should be clear guidance on when such tags are appropriate or not.
 
@AdrianMole It's been there a while. Cody has been away for too long.
 
Cody would know what to do! He'd just not visit the room for 6 months.
 
@Scratte I'm against censorship on matter of principle. But in this case we can say the post, by its content, isn't programming related. On matters of opinion, some are so outright offensive they shouldn't be kept (you're from Europe, taking lessons from history a lot of countries forbid Fascist political parties. Yes it is a form of censorship and I'm inclined to agree with it.)
 
9:57 PM
@bad_coder I'm in Scandinavia.. we go into the ocean naked :)
 
@bad_coder You see - that's my problem. The post could be construed as a programming issue. It's the tag (and the basis behind that tag) that sticks in my craw.
 
You don't have to remove the tag on basis of it being a political statement or a joke language if you remove it on basis of nobody actually using the language
 
... whichever side of the "political divide" you're on (and we're avoiding that, here, of course) ... it's a thinly-disguised political 'joke'. And, as such, it should (IMHO) be stopped from propagation on SO.
 
@Scratte nudity laws vary widely and are strongly correlated to cultural practices. So it's mostly a local matter. Quintessential example: you can walk in shorts on the beach but not in every venue.
 
@JohnDvorak But the only reason nobody is using it is because someone mentioned it and found the one post on it and decided it could go along with the tag.
 

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