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12:00 AM
@Dharman errr...you must be seeing different results than me, my third result is meta.stackexchange.com/questions/86809/…
 
@Scratte Which of the 16+ "Peanuts" users do you mean?
 
@Dharman That comes really close to sharing a link to the user's profile. I'd avoid that.
 
Google results are personalized
 
@Dharman correct, these users are deliberately taking advantage of Stack Overflow's massive SEO impact and viewer reach with absolutely no intention of using this site for what it is.
 
Ok, maybe that search doesn't show them, but they are indexed
 
12:02 AM
@AdrianMole That just made me hungry :)
 
@Scratte We encourage what we condone. This is not a self-remedying problem.
 
@mickmackusa That's silly :) I remember not so long ago where thousands of profiles were being created every day. Almost identical too.. I don't see them on Stack. They don't pop up when I do any normal search.
 
@Scratte that was when in SOBotics badger went crazy, like 6-8 month ago?
 
@Vickel Yes. Not that long ago though. I'm only 10 months old.
 
I noticed the funny comment at the end of this post today that leads to this page.
 
12:13 AM
@bad_coder funny? :)
 
@bad_coder They have one for every "offense". The site is a bit controversial, since it includes "idownvoted"
 
@tink for lack of a better word, I was surprised and somewhat amused at the concept at first sight.
 
Thank you for pointing this out, I'll be looking into it in more detail later today.
 
As Scratte and mickmackusa said, it's well known and somewhat controversial ... ;)
 
and back to my daily 40 CV reviews...
 
@desertnaut Did you delete your close reason comment on this?
@desertnaut I assume you're responding to me :p Why? Is that reason not valid any more? Seems fine to me.
 
@bad_coder There's also How should bare idownvotedbecau.se links in comments be flagged?.. I think there's also was a post at meta.se
 
@cigien to you indeed; and yes, it is still valid
it's just that I have some bad experience in the past from OP's reactions
but doesn't change the essense
 
@desertnaut Ah, I see. I take it you didn't realize till you vtc'ed. In the future, I'd recommend only making a request, and add the custom reason to the request so one of us can use it.
 
12:23 AM
@Scratte, btw. congrats to 2k
 
@Vickel :O
 
@Vickel That's just teasing me.. I was out of votes :(
 
@Scratte I was wondering, what happened?
 
So.. then I spent a while fixing up a user script instead.. so now Stack looks like it does at < 2K again.
 
@Scratte best of both worlds, you see your score rduced and under 2k and we see your score raising and are happy that you contribute to the site :)
 
12:27 AM
@Vickel No :) The user script doesn't lie and tell me I'm at 954 points :D It removes the edit button on posts that are not mine.
 
@Scratte Do you find it hard to resist if the button is visible or something?
 
@cigien No, I just don't like clutter on my user interface. I've removed stuff that I don't use and don't want to use.
 
@Scratte Ah, it's for aesthetics. Fair enough :)
 
I expect the next one will be a little more tricky though.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels sincerely, I think this qualifies for abusive
^but maybe we need to give the question of doubt to new user?
 
12:41 AM
@Vickel the question or his comment? :)
 
^lol
anyway I think it's abusive, pure trolling
 
Never attribute to malice what can sufficiently be explained by stupidity ;)
 
@Vickel I don't think it's a troll, or abusive. Just VLQ.
 
@tink I'm sure that he's referring to my comment
 
Heh
 
12:45 AM
@HovercraftFullOfEels hey come on... :)
 
What if they don't have thumbs? Do dogs have thumbs? Or cats? I'm sure trees don't
 
Is this spam?
I know it's not appropriate
 
Yes, job offers are spam.
Robert Harvey said so one time.
2
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I'd say so, it's an add to publicity a job offer
 
@CodyGray: that's what I thought. Thank you for the clarification.
@Vickel: and to you too
 
12:49 AM
Link is here, in case you're publishing a paper and need a reference.
 
LOL
 
@CodyGray Hell, I come here to escape from the stresses of my real job. No need to add documentary requirements to my fun!
(joking)
 
Yeah, I could tell it was a joke. Everyone knows that documentary requirements are part and parcel of the fun.
 
What is interesting, is that the same Robert Harvey commented on that closed question. He used to be a moderator, if I recall correctly.
 
Hmm, he did. I wonder if he's gone soft? Do you think I need to reach out to him?
 
12:51 AM
Oops, same Robert Harvey, but not on the spam question. My bad.
 
Haha, okay
 
@CodyGray: no, leave him be in his blissful ignorance.
 
That was on the rude/abusive question, which I also nuked.
But that's on Shog9's guidance.
 
@CodyGray: exactly
 
12:52 AM
@CodyGray: any word on Shog9, what he's up to, how he's doing?
 
@tink It's best when someone else is doing it to you, rather than you having to do it yourself?
 
I disagree ;)
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels No idea. Haven't spoken to him in a while. Been drowning in that "real job" thing you mentioned a moment ago.
 
@tink I don't think that's true..
 
@CodyGray: yes, I hope to retire some day, and then apply to be a SO moderator
 
12:54 AM
@cigien just stumbled upon one of your Q's in the CV queue.
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels We'll keep your seat warm. That'd be a welcome day.
 
=} sorry Scratte ...
 
@CodyGray He's back :D Cody we've missed you!!
8
 
@bad_coder Really, that's interesting. Is it ok to share the link here? I'd like to edit it into shape.
 
12:55 AM
@cigien well, I don't know...Can we share it? Conflict of interest and all...
 
@bad_coder Yeah, don't get too used to it. I still don't have any help at work, so still super busy. Only biding time in a protracted design review meeting at the moment.
 
@cigien that has a bad smell to it
even if your intentions are good
... which I'm sure that they are
 
@bad_coder Yeah, exactly. @rene Can I get a ruling on this?
 
There are others rooms than this one. Get a room, or something :)
 
@CodyGray yes, I suspected you were super-busy from your last comments before you stopped being present int the room. Anyway, I wanted to say good to have you back, even if it's just for a short while. And good luck with work!!
 
12:57 AM
Or, you know, just look at your recent, low-score questions to see if there's anything that can be improved.
@bad_coder I still lurk on Meta. You aren't rid of me completely!
 
@Scratte No, as I've mentioned before, if it's brought up here, simply continuing the conversation in another room is violating the spirit.
 
@cigien It's not.. that happens a lot. Besides, nobody is going to follow to find out what post of yours in the queue. But it will keep the transcript clean.
 
@Scratte Maybe so, doesn't make it ok in my view.
@CodyGray My last 6 questions have a score of 4 or more. So I'm not sure what to look for.
 
Hey Cody :-) Glad to see you here as well; hope your work gives you some more free time one of these days.
 
Anything less than 10 is clearly imperfect. :-)
@RyanM Please instead hope for a new job. Don't want those good vibes getting misdirected...
 
1:00 AM
@CodyGray Oh, perfection is not attainable. But having close votes on a question of mine? That I think I can avoid :)
 
@cigien You can't. Anyone can put a close vote on your posts..
 
Plot twist: it was probably an audit.
 
I had thought of that :)
 
@CodyGray Aye aye, hoping redirected.
 
@Scratte Well, sure, not avoid literally. But hopefully they left a comment, and I can do something about it.
@CodyGray Ah, true. I won't stress out about it then :)
 
1:02 AM
@cigien Why? Maybe they don't want to. There's no obligation.
 
Yeah, literally no active close votes/flags on any of your questions. You just made me go look.
One was flagged as a duplicate at one point, but that has aged away.
 
@cigien Cody is right, it was an audit I forgot to check for that...
 
@bad_coder Would you have shared that here if you had failed? ;)
 
Wait, why was that an audit? It's only received one real close vote. It's never been closed. That's...not a good candidate for an audit.
 
@Scratte eehhh, yes I would have with a "darn"...
 
1:04 AM
@CodyGray Oh, wow that was fast. Thanks for checking :)
 
Oh, never mind, you changed the link.
@cigien Curiosity will sometimes kill glasses, too. It's not just cats who are affected.
 
@CodyGray :D
@CodyGray BTW, I'm on my second white russian, and composing an answer to my meta post you reposnded to. Hoping for comments from you there ;)
 
@CodyGray Besides work, I hope life's been treating you well. Have you been down to your home state during confinement?
 
@cigien I’m down for the White Russian. Not so sure about more comments on Meta.
@bad_coder Yup. Spent the entire time since March back in Texas and working remotely.
 
1:14 AM
@CodyGray that's good to know, some time back home with family and friends.
 
@CodyGray Fair enough, it can get heavy. Maybe you'll change your mind after a couple of drinks ;)
 
@CodyGray Meta is best enjoyed with a white wine. Preferably one that comes in a 5L box so you can just refill as you go
11
 
@Machavity never make this statement in Portugal, Spain, France or Italy (the 5l box thingy)
 
@Machavity In my experience, you need a fruitier wine to balance out the inherent astringency of Meta. You speak truth about the box, though.
 
@Machavity lol, a bottle is invariably synonymous with luxury. I go with the white if having some fish...Outside of that I'd probably go for a mature red, or some green.
 
1:17 AM
@bad_coder Except not! Because pandemic! Only people I’ve been with is my immediately family, since we are all in the same household.
 
@bad_coder you know the good stuff :)
 
@Vickel that 5000l litter tank perhaps... :)
 
@Vickel And here I thought the people who invented that named themselves after France for that reason :P
 
@bad_coder I was referring to "mature red" and "green", both very nice choice, specially the "Alentejo" for red and the "Ponte da Lima" for green
 
@Machavity knowing Machavity he has one over us on this :) exactly what was named after France? Now I'm really curious.
 
1:24 AM
@Machavity I'm still guessing, no clew :)
 
@CodyGray pretty much the same here, several nice young ladies invited me for a coffee and I've been postponing...
 
I just found out: "no clew" != "no glue" != "no clue"... And they said English is an easy language
 
@Vickel Why is that weird? All three of those words look very different. Why would you expect them to be in any way equivalent?
 
@CodyGray they all sound the same (at least to me, English is not my 1st language) :)
 
Argh!.. I need to load low quality posts reviews in a different browser now :(
 
1:35 AM
@Machavity in honor of Cody's visit I opened one of my own bottles, mature red, deep ripe prunes with light red fruits, rich velvet, over 13º, no additives, smooth aroma...
 
@Vickel I can simplify things for you a bit. Unless you’re going sailing, you can forget about the word “clew”.
 
@CodyGray I know that, since my research :)
but it still sounds like glue and clew
 
Glue has more of a guttural “glug”. But yeah, clew and clue are similar. Both are pronounced more in the front of the mouth.
 
@Vickel you really must be Portuguese then, in spite of having a foreign sounding name.
@CodyGray this bottle is from 2 years ago, I hadn't tasted it in a while. Here's to you, cheers :D !!
 
@bad_coder in German it wouldn't make a difference, there it's spelled "klu", "klu" and "klu"
 
1:40 AM
I thought you were French?
 
@CodyGray why?
 
@mickmackusa Please don't flag for spam user accounts with no activity. If you do, any significant number of flags will be declined (the moderator handling them may choose to delete some). If moderators want to find them, we're more than capable of finding them and dealing with them at least 10x faster than handling your flag. There have already been Meta posts on this issue with the resolution (from SE, IIRC) that we don't spend time/effort cleaning up these accounts.
If you want to create an additional Meta post, then you are welcome to do so. I suggest you make it a general one, not "please delete this list of accounts", as, again, we can find them quite a bit faster than by looking through user links in a meta post where you've spent a small amount of time doing a quick user-search. I don't recall if the existing Meta post(s) are just on MSE, MSO, or both, but I suggest you find them and make sure that any Meta question you create is not a duplicate.
I'd also note that even if moderators did delete the accounts, the user can immediately recreate the account and edit the information back into their profile. We could suspend the account and then delete it, but, again, that's really not going to do anything to a spammer who is active an desires to only maintain their account and profile. Admittedly, most will have been created and abandoned once the spam is in place, so a significant percentage won't be recreated.
 
Probably because I’m confusing you with Vega. Haha. No, I really did think I remembered hearing that you were French.
Yeah, agree with Makyen. It’s been long settled that deleting user accounts who haven’t posted anything is a total waste of time.
 
@Makyen righto ...I don't see any way to flag the users anyhow.
 
@Vickel the question on everyone's mind: do you have some connection with Germany or are you completely Portuguese?
 
1:50 AM
@CodyGray hope you didn't hear any bad things
@bad_coder why are you so curious?
 
@mickmackusa To flag something where there isn't a post or comment, pick a post, usually your own, and explain in a custom flag. However, again, please don't flag for the above reason.
 
@Vickel well, because I have a strong connection with both those countries. I don't want to be indiscreet by making questions, privacy is paramount. But since you had no problem in assuming you are Portuguese, the question seems fair...
 
@cigien IIRC, this was discussed in a room meeting as a side-issue to something else, but I'm not finding it quickly. IIRC, the resolution was that asking people for help editing your own posts was permitted. If it was going to be an extended thing, then the suggestion was to make the request and take the conversation to another room, so it didn't occupy the transcript here.
 
@bad_coder it's all in my profile...
have to go, getting late bye/o
 
o/
 
1:57 AM
@Vickel ummmm .... German (at least "Hochdeutsch") makes a distinction between g & k, so clue and glue wouldn't sound the same :P ... if you're from Nürnberg or Erlangen I'll forgive you.
d'oh ... too slow =/
 
@bad_coder Franzia
@Vickel cc^
They made quite the name for themselves in the US with those 5L boxes
 
2:14 AM
@Machavity I bet!!! Liver killer number one =D
 
@Machavity ahh ok! The thing with the "Franzia" is that it's a really smart branding strategy by choice of name. The technical term everyone else uses (outside the US) is actually "bag-in-box" aka "box wine".
 
Or 'cask wine' ;)
at least that's what it's called around here
 
It’s a brand name. The generic name is still boxed wine.
 
@Makyen To clarify, I wasn't asking for help in editing one of my posts exactly, but I was simply asking someone to share a link to a post of mine that they stumbled upon in a review queue. Is that ok?
 
Does: "Doing this seemed to fix it but I don't know why; can anyone explain?" count as NAA? As here.
 
2:24 AM
@Machavity but I really like the idea of that name, if not for anything else because folks will be surprised and left wondering. The "bag-in-box" only started being used in the later part of 2000's, this continues being a common option it's made of glass, reusable, traditionally wrapped in wicker.
 
@AdrianMole I think so - it's more of a follow-up question than an attempt to answer.
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Could it perhaps be edited into a slightly better answer?
 
@AdrianMole If you remove the "can you explain" part it looks like an answer. It's still incomplete, and needs a bit of editing though.
 
Well, if it looks like an apple and doesn't taste like an orange ...
 
@tink wine is good if drinking moderately. Beer and spirits is much worse...I knew countless man who reached 90yo and 100yo and had a glass of wine almost every day of the lives.
 
2:26 AM
@bad_coder Mere øl - 🍺 - ເບຍອີກ
 
@AdrianMole Fair point :) I think EJoshuaS's comment asking the OP to edit is the best option.
 
^ I agree. Let's leave it at that, for now.
 
@AdrianMole that last part only has 20 hits on google. looks like Thai?!
 
Drunken Thai, maybe. It's Lao.
 
@bad_coder Some claim it's the effects of resveratrol. You can get it with eating blueberries instead :)
 
2:30 AM
@Scratte mmmhh, I'll let science make it's claims while I drink my wine :)
 
@bad_coder Heh.. they say it can keep you alive longer. But.. it's not optimal to drink it as wine if you really want to boost on it :)
 
@AdrianMole haha, you like catching us by surprise :)
 
It's been on my chat profile for some time - even Google finds it.
 
@Scratte optimal...If you want the aroma, the lived experience, taking a pharmaceutical isn't a substitute...
@AdrianMole ohh yes, now I remember. It raises the interesting question: Why? and where did you get that? and what does it mean?...
 
It means "More beer."
 
2:42 AM
@Scratte I haven't gotten around to trying the honey mead you recommended. But I think I've tried something similar...It's considered a feminine drink, although I'd go for that kind of drink after dinner and after digestion, at night when I'm walking around town with friends. It's a good choice.
 
... literally, "another beer," but the essence is the same. I spend a lot of time in Laos (well, I did, before the World shut down).
 
@AdrianMole didn't know you where in SE Asia...I've seen a chronicle of my countryman there and it's actually real nice.
@AdrianMole have you ever been to Iberia?
@AdrianMole it's the second time you've explained this to me...Oh man, my memory isn't what it once was...
 
I'm currently stuck in the West of Scotland but would love to be back in Laos (or even Thailand). Laos is pretty much completely closed because of the plague (they have had only about 20 reported cases) and Thailand is only slowly starting to let foreigners in (from "Low Risk" countries, of which the UK is most definitely not one). And yes, I've been to Iberia (if you mean Spain, that is).
 
@AdrianMole Have you been to Portugal? And what parts of Spain? (If I may ask.) Can you tell me if you liked it?
 
Yes. Lots. Yes, I did.
 
2:50 AM
@AdrianMole can you elaborate on Portugal?
 
^ It's a small, oblong-shaped country between Spain and the USA. ;-P
 
@AdrianMole how was your visit there, and how did you like it? (a rectangle is a more accurate description btw..)
 
3:07 AM
@KenWhite The post is edited into shape now. The added code makes it clear what the OP is asking.
 
@cigien Thanks. I've reversed my CV on that question.
 
@KenWhite Hmm, even with that retracted vote, it's gotten 2 CVs :( I'll have to watch, and make a reopen request I suspect, if that request doesn't get trashed soon.
@desertnaut I've noticed you post around a dozen off-topic ML requests every day. Do you have any thoughts on how to filter those out? For starters, the Note on the tag regarding implementations could be made more prominent I think. Not that users seems to read the wikis anyway :(
 
allow them?
 
@cigien no (I don't have ideas), and no (they don't read indeed)
 
@JohnDvorak Why? They're definitely off-topic.
 
3:19 AM
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null upon request
@cigien I thought @desertnaut was our filter.
I'm flippant because this is a hard problem that affects far more than just machine learning questions. Nobody ever reads tag wiki excerpts, much less the full tag wikis. We've even tried yellow warning boxes that appear when you use certain tags, but nobody pays attention to those, either.
 
Can a gold-hammer close and then quickly reopen a question, in order to 'clear' other close votes? Or is that sort of thing for mods only?
 
@CodyGray :D You're a fan of offloading work onto humans huh ;) I've been following your advice on adding C++ tags to posts, but I still feel these could be tackled by fixing the platform.
@CodyGray Yeah, that's fair. I don't have any constructive ideas either for sure.
 
@cigien Fixing the platform is also offloading tasks to humans. In this case, humans over which we have no control and cannot effectively persuade to do the things we want them to do.
Not sure how new you are to moderation here on SO, so pardon me if you already know this, but... mods don't have a whole lot any power when it comes to improving the tooling/platform.
 
@AdrianMole Huh, I didn't think of that. @CodyGray Is that acceptable for a hammer to do?
 
I'm pretty sure that's permitted by the system, but not 100%. Been too long since I've had this diamond now to remember.
Regardless, if someone abuses it, then it becomes a problem. If not, well... this is why we give you powers, to help make things better.
 
3:27 AM
@CodyGray Depends on what you mean by new. I've been doing stuff in the C++ tag for about 6 months, but I've only been in SOCVR for a couple of months really. I assumed mods mods didn't have "real" power, but don't y'all pull a lot of weight with staff?
 
@cigien Right. I could tell from your rep and activity that you weren't new to the site, nor obviously new to programming. But asking and answering questions is somewhat different from being familiar with what goes on "behind the scenes", so to speak, in terms of moderation/curation tasks. I've been absent from SOCVR for the past several months, so don't know how much of an education you've already received on culture, history, etc.
The only thing we have with staff is an avenue for communication. Which is not to be underestimated, of course. But as far as pulling much weight.... Nah.
 
@CodyGray Well, that's permission enough for me. I'll try it on one post, and blame you if anyone complains ;)
 
Truthfully, we have as much power with staff as the rest of you guys do on Meta. Write a compelling argument, make good sense, get community support, and one of the same staff members whose ear that mods have (the Community Managers, or CMs) will see it.
 
The horror of both being a SOCVR member and being in grad school part-time: constantly having to wonder if the prof thinks I'm a help vampire.
 
It's easier for us mods to get the CMs into a private room and force them to listen to us, but that's not really all that much better than just making the point on Meta.
 
3:30 AM
What became of the "Council of Moderators?" I thought that was supposed to strengthen the bond between Staff and Community.
 
Note also that (and this is part of the culture/history explanation that I'm not sure if you've received yet) CMs don't make the decisions about what features to implement, so they would still have to persuade someone else.
@AdrianMole I think it exists. I don't know. I'm not on it. To me, it's a nice idea, but little more than that.
 
@CodyGray I've been getting a lot of help from members here. I'm slowly starting to understand the breadth of what I still don't know, which is the only true measure of knowledge I suppose.
 
@AdrianMole I don't think there's a rule against, nor is there much of a need for one. Non-mods get one successful close and reopen vote per question. As such, if you want to never close or reopen that question again, have at it
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Uh, what? If you're an SOCVR member, you know what a help vampire is, so you can objectively assess whether or not you are being one.
 
@Machavity Seems reasonable.
 
3:32 AM
@CodyGray I made 3k in the meanwhile...I'm getting a better picture of the magnitude that low quality questions, and the exact criteria for what is actually worth keeping on the site.
 
Expanding on the Mod Council: I think it's really just a way to streamline communication. The network has grown so much that it's become infeasible to discuss proposed policy or tooling changes with all the mods. So, get a subset of them and use them like a focus group.
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Oh nice, I'm a grad student too :) My committee keeps reminding me that "I should write more papers, and finish my thesis, instead of wasting time writing code, and hanging out on SO", but it being a pandemic and all, they're being pretty chill about it ;)
 
But, given the magnitude of SO and the impact of the mods here, whether we're on the Mod Council or not, we tend to know what is happening with regards to policy or tooling, and have the option to give our opinion.
The question is whether our opinion counts for anything.
We do have some fantastic CMs who will listen. Some of them even grok the vision for this place intuitively, so all that we have to do is occasionally remind them of things or connect the dots. But that's not the same thing as having any real weight.
 
It's the old adage: We aren't ignoring your input! We're listening but disregarding it.
 
There's like 550 mods network-wide. I'd say maybe 100 active in Teacher's Lounge, maybe double that on the Mod Team site. Information is just too darn easy to miss
 
3:35 AM
Yeah. You have to keep reminding yourself that very, very few of the SE sites have activity levels anywhere near our Meta. That's not only in terms of flags, but also just in terms of Q&A and general activity levels of moderators.
 
Ok, I hammered and reopened, and it cleared the close votes. Nice :)
 
See - another great trick from the Happy Room!
 
Oh no. I've been gone, and you turned this into a Happy room?
 
Meh - Only in a sarcastic sense.
 
@CodyGray I'll notify @rene and he'll have that fixed in no time
 
3:37 AM
And this is after Adrian has admonished me multiple times for having fun here :(
 
Ah, good.
 
@CodyGray This is interesting. I actually imagined that mods had a lot more weight than you're indicating. I'm not sure whether I think that's a good or bad thing yet. Probably not great, mods would know better what's appropriate for the site.
 
I should clarify: we have almost unlimited power when it comes to what content is hosted on the site. We can delete anything we want instantly, and we can prevent users from posting. But that's altogether different from being able to modify the tooling.
We don't have access to the developers.
 
Absolutely. It would be ridiculous if staff could do that. Power over content must be in the hands of community elected users.
 
Ah... well.... staff can do that...
I agree; sometimes it is ridiculous.
 
3:42 AM
But they don't except in exceptional cases right?
 
@cigien The diamond definitely carries more weight, but it tends to be proportional to how much moderation work you do around the site. For some (especially newer users), it's just a nifty UTF-8 diamond next to your name
 
Yeah, mostly because they don't have time to go around doing the day-to-day business of moderating. The thing is, though, what is one's threshold for "exceptional"?
@Machavity Oh, most users don't even notice the diamond, much less know what it means.
 
There was an 'interesting' comment-rant case yesterday (UTC, probably earlier today over yonder) where a new user was confused about what a moderator was. Martijn stepped in and "showed off" his diamond. :)
 
On Meta?
 
No clue. But I would think staff would only deal with user issues, exceptional or otherwise. They don't muck around with the technical content do they?
 
3:45 AM
On main.
 
@cigien Ah, no, of course not. I'm thinking more about when staff decides to get involved with the moderation of content they consider to be "exceptional" on the Meta site.
@AdrianMole Ah, well, I must have somehow missed it, among the millions of comments we get every second, but which I nevertheless monitor diligently, reading every one and tracking its status. :o)
 
@CodyGray Oh, I see. Well, I really have no idea about that. I'm thinking of my meta learning experience as having started just this week. And some learning experience it is :)
 
(The primary reason that is funny is because I pretty much do precisely that on the Meta site.)
 
hehe I came across it because Queen flagged one of the comments in SOBotics.
 
@cigien Nice job reopening that question. I was watching it to see if I needed to vote to reopen.
 
3:49 AM
@KenWhite np. I just learned a nifty trick with my hammer :) To be honest, I don't see much use for that trick expect in cases where a cv-pls request gets outdated, but doesn't get trashed in time.
 
@CodyGray For those with the remarkable ability to see deleted comments, this post may be mildly amusing.
 
Oh. I saw that and deleted a couple of comments before it blew up.
Based on the response ("why you deleted my comments"), I was the proximate cause of the blow-up. :-)
 
But you didn't flash your gems!
 
Lots of mods involved handling that one post: Me, Martijn, ChrisF, and Bhargav.
 
It was a mess, for sure. As E_Net4... put it in SOBotics, "when to stop?"
 
3:53 AM
Also known colloquially as: "a bunch of <censored> cowards anonymously deleting muh comments!"
 
^ A Day in the Life ...
 
4:08 AM
@cigien Yeah, I'm doing the whole research thing now too... I'm just getting a master's degree, not even at a R1 university. I'm kinda hoping to get published, but we'll see if my project ends up being good enough.
 
@CodyGray Code gray? ;)
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica In CS? Or what field?
 
@CodyGray Data science, kinda wanted to work on my machine learning and stats
 
Ah, I see. That trendy thing that all the cool kids are doing now.
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica What kind of stuff do you work on? I used to do a lot of evolutionary computation, but now I do more evolutionary theory research. So I work with quite a few biologists now, which is great. I know very little biology, and they know even less programming :p
 
4:13 AM
@cigien Network science for me these days
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica That definitely has overlap with biology. For example, protein-protein interactions within a cell.
 
Yeah, my prof did some computational neuroscience research awhile back with it, I'd love to get in that game at some point
 
@Joshua "No attempt" is not a close reason. Do you think that one of the actual close reasons is appropriate for that question?
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica Nice. Is Applied Soft Computing somewhere you would look to publish?
 
Hmmm... that's actually a good idea, I'll have to look into that.
 
4:16 AM
As a grad student, don't you just look to publish anywhere that accepts your manuscript? :-)
 
@CodyGray: Copy/paste homework problem is not acceptable. Found a duplicate and shoved that into the close reason
 
@Joshua Yeah, I'm not arguing that question is a good one. But "no attempt" isn't a close reason, and when making a [cv-pls] in here, we require that you specify an actual close reason. "No attempt" is a downvote reason, not a close reason.
 
@Joshua Unclear or too broad would both fit as reasons.
 
@Joshua I'm not sure that the dupe closure is a good idea. You can add that as a comment since it will help the OP, but as a signpost, that title has no value.
@CodyGray Can mods see breakdowns of close reasons? Assuming 3 users gave 3 different reasons, as happened here :p
 
Yes, and yes.
I'm not sure if it always prefers closing as a dupe in that case, or if it just goes with the first one.
 
4:20 AM
@cigien: Close w/o commenting and it will roomba
 
@CodyGray Ok, thanks. No reason really, just wanted to know if that info was lost to the ether.
 
It's tracked in the timeline view for moderators, but might as well be lost for everyone else.
 
Very little is ever truly lost from the SE network.
 
@CodyGray At least if it's gold badge hammered, it's a dupe. Not sure otherwise.
 
It's much less of a problem now than it used to be, since 3 votes is enough to get a question closed. That makes it much less likely that there will be ties in the reasons that were chosen.
 
4:23 AM
@AdrianMole Actually, I remember reading somewhere that deleted comments actually disappeared, and it wasn't fixed until someone realized a mod was abusing that. At least I think I read that somewhere. Is that true?
 
Nope
I mean... there might have been a temporary bug or something with regard to deleted comments
But deleted comments have always been visible to moderators, since the comment feature existed.
 
@CodyGray No, more likely just a temporary bug with my memory ;) Thanks for clarifying.
 
Mods can even see edit histories on comments.
 
@CodyGray Oh no, please don't look at mine. I make a lot of typos that I quickly need to edit :p
 
You should see what happens when I try to type from mobile.
 
4:26 AM
@Joshua Sure, it's not a big deal I guess. I just like good close reasons, and in particular, accurate dupe closures.
 
@CodyGray Why would you be typing in Alabama?
 
Agree with you in spirit, @cigien, but sometimes having a gold tag badge holder close a question as a duplicate is the best, most expedient way to solve a problem.
 
@CodyGray You actually do that? You're a braver person than me ;)
 
@cigien Back before this human malware situation, I spent a lot of time moderating from mobile. You could call it bravery, I suppose. :-)
 
@CodyGray Huh, you edited pandemic to malware? Humor? or is that not PC for some reason?
 
4:28 AM
you saw nothing
 
@AdrianMole What else would you be doing in Alabama?
Yeah, it was an attempt at humor. My brain knew what I wanted to type; my fingers didn't.
 
Looking for the way out?
 
Ouch, poor Alabama.
 
@RyanM Not quite as convincing when you literally watched it happen in real time.
 
@CodyGray That's an interesting point. I've bought up this target with the concern that it gets used by hammers to close otherwise off-topic questions. Expedient sure, but I've had to correct a few incorrect closures myself. So I'm not sure if this is a good thing to encourage.
 
4:32 AM
@cigien Oof. No, I don't like that target being used for what I describe.
If you see the same person doing that repeatedly, please raise a custom moderator flag or something. I'd like to speak with them about alternatives...
 
If you like that, then you'll love Unfortunately MyApp has stopped. How can I solve this?...
 
Closed as duplicate of RTFM is not OK.
2
 
sometimes it really is what they're asking: how do I debug a crash?
 
@RyanM That's... not quite the same. At least that is not "language-agnostic".
 
I was pondering a Meta post on that C++ "duplicate". There's a 'similar' one used in RegEx that I see a lot in the Reopen Queue.
 
4:35 AM
@CodyGray Yeah, that's a good point...one has specific steps and the other is basically a wiki article on debuggers
 
@CodyGray I've actually brought it up with one user here already, and after a bit of discussion they've been better about it. But yeah, I'll flag if I see a pattern, thanks.
 
... but what I know about RegEx can be written on a very small postage stamp, so I generally just skip.
 
@RyanM Wow, I love it. Favorite post of the day for me :)
 
@cigien Yeah, I don't necessarily mean because I'm going to punish them. Just let them know that we don't consider that to be an appropriate use of the dupe-vote privilege, and that there are other alternatives. It's perfectly fine if you want to take the onus to tell someone that, too, but sometimes it's easier and better to let a mod do it.
@RyanM What I'm most bothered about is that the title doesn't use some form of the pun, "How can I start it again?"
 
@CodyGray I thought I'd give it a try myself that time. They're a seasoned C++ tag participant (which admittedly is a bias for me), and they clearly had good intentions. It worked out, but yeah, I won't take on more than I can handle, and I'll offload it to a mod if it gets at all contentious.
 
4:38 AM
@AdrianMole if you spend enough time around Charcoal, you can learn a lot ;-P
 
@RyanM Definitely. For example, I learned that I can get Makyen to write any regex I want.
 
@CodyGray Could you share some of those alternatives though? I must admit, I'm lured by the idea of being able to immediately close a post that I know is off-topic. The argument I made, and that swayed the user, was pointing out that the occasional errors weren't worth it.
 
@cigien One of the leading alternatives is posting in here.
Don't get me started. I have been the most vocal advocate for a long time of extending the Mjölnir franchise, both to silver tag badge holders and to other close reasons. Subject-matter experts are in the best position to be able to judge whether a question is unclear, too broad, or whatever else, too, so they should have more weight when closing for these reasons.
Now, in that particular case, since (A) I'm a moderator, and (B) I was casting the third and final vote anyway, there was no expediency advantage to closing as a duplicate. But in many cases, there would be.
And, even still, I prefer it because it gives the asker something more useful and immediate than just "not good enough".
With C++ questions (something that I have quite a bit of experience with myself), you can almost always find a relevant duplicate. And I mean an actually relevant one, not a "How do I use a debugger?" or "What is a pointer?" kind of FAQ.
 
4:54 AM
I think I can get behind the idea of extending hammer, and related powers, to silver and bronze tag badge holders. That would take some thought though, since any systemic abuse, for any of the tiers ,would be used as an argument that the entire franchise should be scrapped. Which would be a shame. I agree with the closing of posts as duplicates when possible, so long as it's relevant. I wasn't clear if you counted debugger and other such targets as appropriate, so I asked.
 
Your thinking being, we have been supremely lucky that there has been almost no abuse of the feature by gold badge holders (in fact, the whole thing has been a success beyond anyone's wildest dreams), that we perhaps dare not look a gift horse in the mouth?
I don't really think there is that much of a possibility for abuse. Plus, it is self-correcting. Once you expand the hammer, you also expand the reopen hammer, so any other silver tag badge holder can re-open.
I don't even think the feature is all that ripe for abuse. No one benefits in any selfish way from closing questions.
 

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