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1:47 AM
@AdrianMole It is the accepted answer copy-pasta, they just changed the example url
Also, almost all answers are repeating...
 
 
1 hour later…
3:16 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
5:34 AM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica although there were two reopen votes on this I cast the final delete vote as it has been asked many times before e.g. stackoverflow.com/questions/34217841/… which is in itself a duplicate...
 
5:45 AM
 
6:01 AM
@vestland When you feel a request of yours should no longer be acted upon, or if there is a substantial error, then please ping a Room Owner (RO) to move the request out of the room. A list of ROs can be found on the left half of the room's info page, sorted with the most recently active at the top. There's a link to the room's info page just below the tags in the right-sidebar on this chat page.
Flagging such messages for moderator attention is not a good way to accomplish handling the message. If there's an exceptional problem, then flagging for moderator attention is good. Moving a request out of the room because it should no longer be acted upon or there's an error is a relatively routine issue, which RO's can handle.
 
@Makyen Thank you for the info! I was eager to prevent that my mistake would have a negative impact on the linked post, and so I hit the only big red button I could find, which was to flag it for moderator attention. Sorry for the inconvenience! Should I still ping a room owner regarding the same mistake?
 
6:17 AM
@vestland No. It's been handled. I happen to be both a moderator and room owner, so I did know exactly how the room desires for it to be handled. However, that's not the case for most moderators.
I should have previously linked to FAQ #29, which covers the situation of removing a request.
 
@Makyen OK, thanks again!
 
 
1 hour later…
7:40 AM
Sorry for spamming the room. I will stop (for) now.
 
 
I think someone out there thinks I'm an evil curator now.
 
welcome to the club!
 
Thank you :) I didn't get any threats though :)
 
You'll probably get a revenge downvotes along the way :)
 
@AlonEitan I don't mind those. It'll keep my reputation down.. But I don't think it will happen in this case, as the user is low reputation and heading for a Question-ban quite fast.
I don't understand why someone asking a Question is deliberately ignoring advice given in comments as to how to improve and what to edit.. unless they don't know any of the specifics of what they are asking. But then how will they understand an Answer?
 
8:42 AM
@Scratte One does not need to understand an answer to copy-paste it.
Often, if you try to answer those questions, they will in fact tell you that they don't understand and to please give them the code.
 
@RyanM That is correct :D However.. a lot of Answers are not directly copy'n'pastable :) Ahh.. yes, I see. We agree :)
 
9:02 AM
That spammer's help finding extremely vague questions about how to implement remote desktop software is appreciated.
 
They are persistent though. You'd say that they'd have learned spamming is ineffective on SO, as they already adapted from using spam links to going linkless, but still they're getting deleted within minutes
 
Is this question even answerable or does it lack details?
 
Well... What's the lab question? Whats the HTML that needs to be selected from?
 
9:29 AM
I have casted a delete vote on a duplicate question. It's not deleted yet which i understand.But when I go to that question it does not show that there is one delete vote. I can see that I have casted my delete vote on it in my profile's vote section
 
@ArghyaSadhu Was it a longtime ago that you casted? Your vote might aged away
 
@Vega delete votes don't age, right?
 
@Adriaan correct
 
@Vega no..it shows 1d on my profile
Do you folks see any delete vote on it?
 
@ArghyaSadhu I don't. If it comforts you: roomba will delete that in 3 days
 
9:35 AM
Makyen removed your delete vote
You can see that in the timeline
 
Interesting timeline. Double delete-undelete by Makyen
It looks like he wanted to clear any votes/flags on it. But it will still roomba in 3 days, so why do that?
Were there reopen votes (those impede the roomba)?
 
@Adriaan Oops, I once again read something else (CV instead of delete vote)
 
Waffles
 
@Adriaan..no worries I don't know why I missed to see the roomba forecaster
 
9:39 AM
Long story short, duplicates are good, we shouldn't put that much effort into deleting one that's not super low quality. And at the time attention was brought to it, it didn't qualify for roomba
5
 
@Dharman yeah I can see that in timeline
@Nick got it..I missed that conversation
 
9:59 AM
Is difficulties installing or uninstalling samba programming? Or tools related to programming?
 
@tripleee smells like spam I think. Question-title, then goes on to explain the differences in the body
 
10:17 AM
@Adriaan Ryan found where it was plagiarized from, probably to create an illusion of also posting legitimate content? But I have yet to see any actual spam
@Scratte not directly, but if it involves compiling drivers etc then maybe
 
@tripleee Thank you. I've never used it, as you could probably tell :)
 
@Scratte it's a network file system which allows you to access files on Windows computers (or real computers with a Samba server to emulate the functionality)
 
@tripleee "or real computers"? As opposed to windows computers? :D
 
10:35 AM
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Nice
 
@E_net4theerror I wonder whether the OP is over 13 and with that not eligible to even use the website.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio I have been so many times surprised by the absurd lack of maturity from old folks, I do not wonder that.
s/old/adult/
 
@E_net4theerror Anyhow, there need to be some fundamental knowledge about Python. So, it might be true. Maybe even an frustrated/disappointed use of another question made with another account.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Trolls are not necessarily in their teens, though.
 
10:52 AM
@E_net4theerror Yes, true.
 
11:04 AM
@Dharman first link was not needed here
 
@desertnaut It's the custom message. Using US it pastes the whole thing
 
@Dharman I think we had a recent discussion here for such cases
and the guidance was not to include additional links in cv-pls requests, especially before the post link
which is reasonable IMO
 
@desertnaut The issue was specifically links to other posts. While links to things other than posts should be avoided, they don't cause the scripts to behave in ways which people don't want, so it's not as important.
 
@Makyen copy that
 
11:30 AM
did this come through here? Asking because I recognize some close voters
 
@SurajRao Are you asking if this post was discussed here or if we're "harsh"?
 
@SurajRao was not here If I am not wrong
 
@Scratte asking whether the cv came through here
have seen questions closed later brought up in MSO... Havent seen it come up in MSE till now..
 
@SurajRao Ahh.. you can search here results and in search [chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/90230/… Request Graveyard) results for the id 63703207 using the field on the upper right corner. It opens up a new window :) The posts didn't come through here.
 
ok thanks
^spam? is he asking or telling?
 
11:41 AM
Though in my opinion the Question doesn't really show a lot of.. research effort. And it's bordering a homework like question.
 
It's incredible there isn't a support question about why answers are deleted on MSO.
 
12:08 PM
Morning
 
o/
 
A very rare topic I know: The VLQ flag. So it's useful for posts that could be edited into shape (and that's why an edit marks it helpful, in contrast to NAA flags). But it's advised to flag link-only answer ("Read this article: [link to article]") as NAA. And they can also be edited to become suitable (I have seen such cases myself). But after an edit you need to be quick to retract the flag.
 
12:54 PM
@JeanneDark That is correct. Most of my flags are NAAs. I used to flag them a lot during spring, when the handling took up to 8 hours. I'd never flag a post late a night, in fear or an edit making my flag being declined :) But.. I've seen a lot of Answers being edited without making them any less NAA, so I never flag VLQ. I just keep an eye on the posts. Now the handling is less than an hour :)
 
@Scratte But this appears to me to be inconsistent. Maybe really separate it so everything that's theoretically editable is VLQ (foreign language, bad link-only) and everything else (me too, comment, new question) is NAA. Or maybe just make away with VLQ completely since it's only use case seem to be answers not in English anyway.
 
@JeanneDark You are making the argument for a single delete flag :D
 
@Braiam What do you mean?
 
@JeanneDark Are you hovering around this current HMP?
 
1:05 PM
@JeanneDark Here's a tldr meta.stackoverflow.com/q/340866/792066 there's more on this one meta.stackoverflow.com/q/318952/792066
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio No, it's not inspired by any MSO post. Just a general question because the flagging system appears somewhat inconsistent to me and VLQ flags have been puzzling me for quite a while (NAA flags on the other hand don't).
 
VLQ are IMO not meant for posts which can more or less easily be edited. Only for unsalvageable stuff. That's also what I said there with reference to Shog etc.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio I saw that message by Machavity earlier: "Probably would go VLQ on that one, since it looks fixable via edit"
Thanks for the links, Braiam and Scratte!
 
@Scratte Oops.. Hadn't notice the last one was already posted here, as it wasn't prettified by toilet overview: []()
 
1:10 PM
@JeanneDark That seems to contradict with Shog's and my meaning.
 
Doesn't help to clear up the confusion then
But why then the mechanism to have an edit by the author mark the VLQ flag helpful - if it's for stuff not editable, that doesn't make sense
 
@JeanneDark I think that's just preference. I don't want my flags to go helpful with an edit. I want to make sure my flag is valid until I retract it or it's the end of the handling of the post.
@JeanneDark You're not asking the right question, and your assumption about logic will not keep you sane :D
 
@JeanneDark Yeah, that is what we noticed too.
There's a post by Gilles about this meta.stackoverflow.com/a/319054/792066
 
@JeanneDark Bill's answer has a similar (however straight to the case) opinion: "If you're not sure, then don't use a flag. A VLQ flag is for when a post definitely needs to be deleted."
 
There is only one difference: Edits make the VLQ flag go away. The fact that any edit will dismiss the flag as helpful and remove the post from the Lox Quality Posts queue, is just counter to what the text says about the flag. But that text is just... wrong. But so is the text for "Needs more focus" on closures.
 
1:17 PM
This confusion with the flags has been brewing for half a decade already, I wanted to make the deletion flag more like the close flag but Shog said that we would itemize badness... well, we already do.
 
Thank you all for your input! I think I will do as I did so far and ignore the VLQ flag.
 
FWIW, I generally only use the VLQ flag for non-English answers; however, the Advanced Flagging script (which has "non-English" as an option) uses NAA for that.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio VLQ can be used if the OP can salvage it with an edit. If you can edit it, then edit it.
NAA means it can't really be salvaged as-is and should be deleted. The catch is that sometimes they are salvaged, so reviewers/mods only see the salvaged post and you get a dispute/decline
 
@AdrianMole Natty reporter generates a VLQ flag if you select "link only answer"
 
@Machavity But that's also the case for link-only answers for which NAA flags are supposed to be used.
 
1:21 PM
@Vickel Which is just plain wrong IMHO.
 
there is some difference between several Natty/flagging related userscripts
 
@AdrianMole How so?
 
@AdrianMole Nah. Link-only VLQ is proper because those are the most likely to get edited back into shape. All you need is a relevant quote to make them acceptable
 
@Braiam Because link-only is one of the canonical uses for NAA.
 
This fine Answer "I'm having this issue too. Any updates?".. get's flagged by me :) Then one hour later it says "I'm having this issue too. Any updates? It's urgent" and it was edited by author.
 
1:24 PM
What throws people is NAA and VLQ both wind up in the LQP list. But mods see them separately
 
@AdrianMole Don't you believe that NAA meaning is overloaded?
AFAIK, there are only two kinds of flags: delete this and delete this ASAP.
 
@Machavity The whole topic just keep going round and round in ever-decreasing spirals. Ask three different mods and you'll likely get four different opinions. Add a former CM to the debate and you'll get another two opinions.
4
 
If a post warrant deletion and is not ASAP, arguing which flag is raised is just waste of time.
 
@Machavity That is what I always wondered about. What if the post is edited to be correctly and you got a pending NAA flag on it. Why does the NAA flag get accepted in this case, while the VLQ flag don't?
 
The other catch is people misuse VLQ for questions. That's almost always a misuse, but Triage encourages people to do that
 
1:26 PM
@Machavity You can't use VLQ in Triage :D
 
^ You meant H&I, I guess.
 
Sorry, meant H&I
H&I wants you to VLQ... which dumps it back into Triage
 
I really liked Robert take: Let me first say that (as a moderator) I no longer perform the calculus it takes to determine whether a not a non-answer answer flag is really hooked to a not a non-answer answer. If the answer merits deletion, I delete it. It's mentally exhausting for the flagger and moderators alike.
 
@Machavity Probably because we got no NAQ (not a question) flag. :-)
 
@Machavity So you're saying that for link-only answers VLQ flag is appropriate and not NAA although the FAQ says NAA should be used?
 
1:27 PM
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio It gets declined. You need to retract your NAA flag if the edit makes it good.
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio We do. It's called "Vote to Close" :P
 
Feature Request: Let's merge the NAA and VLQ flags into one, and call it CRAP.
12
 
@Scratte What if the edit doesn't make it better and NAA still is applicable? And why isn't that necessary with VLQ flags?
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Yes, of course :) The problem with VLQ flags are they are marked helpful and dismissed with any edit. The flag doesn't know if the edit was good or not. Which was my example above. So I don't like the VLQ flag very much, because most author edits to deletable Answers doesn't make it a valid Answer.
 
@JeanneDark Let me back up. NAA and VLQ both go into LQP and mod review. The only practical difference is that an edit will clear VLQ, while NAA can only be deleted or declined (or mods can just mark helpful without a delete, but that's rare)
So if you think the OP can edit the post into shape (and link-only is the most likely to do so in my experience) then use VLQ
2
 
1:33 PM
@Scratte Now we go to the treasure where I finally want to go -> "The problem with VLQ flags are they are marked helpful and dismissed with any edit" - Do you got any reference to that? I would be very interested in reading more about it.
 
Is it that VLQ flag is given more time compared to NAA before being handled by Mod?
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Just to be clear. There is only 1 difference between the two flags: NAA are persistent. They go away for only 2 reasons: 1. You retract the flag. 2. The flag is handled by queue/moderator. However VLQ flags will also go away on any edit to the post.
 
@Machavity Thank you very much! I wished the flag descriptions (and names) were more clear on that.
 
@JeanneDark Have you upvoted any of the solutions I linked?
 
@Machavity I've just seen way too many link-only posts being edited into just another link-only post to see this as good advice.
 
1:35 PM
@Scratte "However VLQ flags will also go away on any edit to the post." - Wohoo! Do you got any reference for that? All I see so far is just writing in chatty conversation which is great but I want to have somehow consistent proof.
 
@Scratte Well, here's the other not-obvious part: NAA and VLQ are separate flags in the system. So if your VLQ gets an edit and is still NAA, you can reflag as NAA
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Yes.. already posted those references ;)
@Machavity Yes, but either way I have to keep my eye on my flags and the posts that I've flagged :)
 
@Braiam Not yet, but I will do so in the future (am low on votes)
 
@JeanneDark Aren't meta votes separate? Don't you get 40 on main and 40 on meta?
 
Yes, they are separate
 
1:38 PM
@JeanneDark At least, read it up. Most points has been raised and argued. Going into a discussion well documented is more effective :D
 
@JeanneDark I can't find posts to vote on. I'm mostly "meh". I'm truly impressed that you make it so often :)
 
@Scratte Protip: Sobotics can help you with that if you use Advanced Flagging
 
@Machavity I know. I was suppose to do something about it, but.. I have no excuse ;)
I'm not fond of the 3 in 1 though.
 
@Machavity Maybe, maybe not. GenericBot (the one that tracks changes to flagged posts) seems to have been comatose of late.
 
^ that's the one I was interested in.
 
1:42 PM
is it just me or stackoverflow question tags are now rendering on screen?
when you try to compose a question you cant really select an exsiting tag
 
"Whenever the (VLQ-flagged) post is edited, whether it is in the queue or not, whether the editor is the flagger themselves or not, the flag is marked helpful and the post gets an automatic downvote" - Why does the post automatically get a downvote when the VLQ post is edited?
 
@AdrianMole That's a bummer
 
@Stavm Seems you are correct. No idea why that thin thing comes instead of actual tags. But if you know the tag name, type it in and leave it for 5 seconds, the tag will show.
 
@Stavm It looks like a bug. You should report on Meta
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio No.. it's been changed since. You need to read the posts fully :) All automatic downvotes have been removed from these flags.
 
1:50 PM
@Machavity But anyhow your opinion to that seems to be against what I found so far. Another example. VLQ should only be used for real horrible stuff indicating the post needs to be deleted ASAP. For "Links to answers" a NAA flag should be raised, not VLQ one. Reference
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio If I recall correctly, there's a comment or an update in one of the posts that links to another posts about the removal of the automatic downvote.
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio It doesn't matter what people say to use them for really. It all comes down to your preference. Do you want the flag to go away with an edit or not? :) They "end up" in the same place. Maybe moderators have different queues, but they'll not mark it less helpful or more declined because you picked one over the other :)
 
@RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio I should note George is talking about VLQ for questions. And he's right on that front. Most VLQ questions should be closed, not deleted. Only use VLQ for questions if they're close to red-flag territory, but don't quite make it over that hump
 
@Machavity But that just pushes the problem down to 3 others users in the Triage queue :( Or 38 other users, since 35 will Skip it.
 
@Scratte Yes, that is what it comes to at the end but that shouldn't be. We need to have clear cut when something is appropriate and when not. Not leaving something to one's own opinion whether it fits or not. I guess anything need to be changed but I'm not so sure what exactly at the moment.
 
MSO question view is down. And is up again.
 
2:01 PM
@Machavity Problem is that we don't have (at least I couldn't found) a clear generic VLQ post, saying what's appropriate and what not like we have for NAAs. I find VLQ posts related to specific things, which do not cover everything need to be known about it.
 
2:41 PM
stackoverflow.com/a/63537567/7015400 is it allowed to write in arabic?
It means in the name of God, this answer is for Muslims
 
@PeterHaddad it's not, I removed that line.
 
There is an active bug with tag autocomplete, in case you run into it editing
 
Hi folks!
 
καλό απόγευμα
 
^ is there a shadowing effect on the link though? :)
 
2:52 PM
@Scratte Maybe - but you have to send 3e15 bitcoin to see it.
 
@AdrianMole I'm all out.. I thought I was suppose to buy them. With money :D Or do you think I can trade for unicorn points?
 
Oh gratz @Machavity for being a mod! Forgot about that lol
 
@IslamElshobokshy Makyen too ;)
 
Is there any rules that says users are not suppose to up/down vote all their votes away in the same mimute?
 
3:03 PM
@Scratte Possibly a rate-limiter?
 
Nice! Gratz @Makyen too!
 
@AdrianMole Ahh.. but that's all? :) I figured I'd go for the badge, but I don't come across posts that I want to vote on, so I figured I'd just collect them until I had enough, and then do it all in one big go :D
 
@Scratte If they are close together for the same user, the reversal script might reverse some
 
@Machavity They're not. I don't collect users, just bad posts :) But thank you for the warning :)
 
For those willing to downvote, IMO it's very very easy to use up all your votes just by browsing the front page (or even in a couple hours on particularly bad days)
 
3:18 PM
@CertainPerformance I just think "meh" mostly.. it's only when I come to the conclusion that this post is not getting improved that I feel compelled.
 
@CertainPerformance Indeed, I wonder what's more efficacious: using downvotes on the front page and not spending any on posts in the review queue, or saving them for posts in the review queue that should be downvoted as well
you certainly reach more questions doing the former... 80 vs 40, give or take. But you can better guarantee the desired effect by doing the latter... 40 close voted and downvoted questions, for example
 
Bummer that the SEDE table for users doesn't include # of helpful flags
 
4:08 PM
@bad_coder Yes, it is. Please do not highlight specific posts just do complain about them or worse, users involved with them.
 
@TylerH Then, if I may, I would like to ask a technical SO question (I haven't been able to figure this out)...Say a 1rep posts 7 questions getting -1 vote on each - he will hit the question ban around that point...But what if he posts 3 questions and gets -10 votes on each. Does that significantly change the question ban? (The algorithm isn't public knowledge, but has experience shown any "rule of thumb" insight that could be significant in these cases?)
 
4:23 PM
@bad_coder The history and volume does matter, it's not just from getting a couple of heavily downvoted posts (source), but obviously yes, we have nothing concrete on how it works
 
@bad_coder It seems that the amount of votes effects the ban. I noticed a post on meta where a user only had 3 deleted posts with a score of <=0 and they were in a Question-ban.
 
@Scratte Essentially that's what I'm worried about. "Exaggerate" down votes on a "noob" question can lead to the user almost immediately incurring in a ban (thus quasi-exclusion, by design irrevocable, for a minimum 6 month period).
 
@bad_coder Others users hit it after 10 or more posts, so it can't be just the number of posts <=0. Somehow votes must be involved. And I completely agree with you about downvoting a post that's already down. It's seems to turn into mob like behaviour. The post is already not getting back from -3.
 
@bad_coder The system only applies after you at least asked 2 questions.
 
@Braiam Not only that, but you're given a visible warning when you are close to being question banned as well
 
4:28 PM
@bad_coder a post hitting -6 is not necessary to signal that it's a bad post. -1 already does that..
 
-6 means that the post is really really bad and probably needs to be deleted right away.
 
@Dharman No, it doesn't. It just means 6 people that likes to downvote noticed it. There are other posts with positive score that needs the same deletion.
And deleting a closed, unanswered post before the 10 day Roomba isn't necessary at all. let the user try to fix it, instead of piling it on with delete votes too.
 
@Dharman Eh, not always
 
So the question is why did 6 people decide to downvote it. There's no technical reason to downvote past -3, so the extra 3 votes meant that the post is really bad. True, this is not always the case but most of the time such amount of downvotes tells us something about the quality of the post
 
@Braiam Janitors are always at risk of heavy downvotes :p we don't qualify for protection
 
4:34 PM
@Braiam Braiam, the first downvote came 2 years after the question was asked. I am only talking about brand new questions here. If the question gets -6 in the first 24 hours then we can assume something is really wrong with it
 
@Dharman Or the user posted on meta...
 
@Nick "here's your broken broom, off you go! Bye!"
 
Congrats on that being your first message in chat.SO for 33 days :p
 
@Nick I don't really hang out here much :P
 
This seems borderline R/A - I assume it's meant as a joke, but it's not funny stackoverflow.com/a/63709343
 
4:43 PM
> "The post is already not getting back from -3"

I'm with you on this. Someone asking their first question who's reacting to comments and editing shouldn't be massively down voted in the first couple of hours, it leaves them no way to make a "come back" from that.
 
@bad_coder I wrote a meta post about that, you know :)
 
@Scratte please link.
 
@bad_coder Heh.. do I even dare to? :D
 
@Scratte by all means !!
 
 
1 hour later…
5:51 PM
@bad_coder as you know the question ban criteria are not public, so I can't really answer that. If a user posts 3 questions that each get -10 score, that is a pretty strong signal (IMO stronger than 7 questions at -1 each), so there's not really an issue with either case resulting in a question ban.
Note that posting questions on SO isn't a right, but a privilege. If someone has shown by some community metric that they ask really bad questions, then yes, it stands to reason that even one question that is bad enough ought to merit a question ban. They can always try again in 6 months at any rate.
7
 
Do we have any statistics on how many questions has the q-ban (not) stopped?
 
@JohnDvorak for a snapshot in time, yes meta.stackexchange.com/questions/172300/… someone would likely need to re-ask for recent data
See also this followup 3 years later meta.stackoverflow.com/a/317186/2756409 (cc @bad_coder)
if you notice a user who is engaging positively by editing their post to fix problems, you can also always provide an upvote, which will help their consideration with the ban.
If all else fails, users can contact the company directly and if the company views the user's efforts favorably enough they can manually lift a question ban
but by and large the typical outcome of a question-banned user is "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas" as the image in Shog's answer states
 
Great links, thanks
 
@TylerH The privilege of getting someone else invest time in your problem. People don't understand that.
 
6:09 PM
@Braiam Indeed
A lot of problems would go away if users realized "I am getting potentially professional assistance for free here" when it comes to asking on Stack Overflow.
 
I flagged this Answer back on Mar 22nd. It seems that they author deleted and undeleted without me noticing it, and how I can't flag it again. To me this still looks like a "Not an Answer"
 
@Scratte Ah yes, IIRC that is still a bug (where deleting/undeleting answers clears all flags)
 
@TylerH I normally notice it, but apparently I slipped on that one :(
 
Looks a mod has nuked it
 
But in the system defense, a "Not an Answer" flag is supposed to be marked helpful when the post is deleted, no? I mean that's the point of the flag :)
Yes, nice moderator :)
 
6:14 PM
@Scratte yes it should be marked helpful..it didn't is it?
 
@Scratte Self-deletes are exceptions to the NAA flag because it's a case where the flag doesn't get reviewed.
As you can see, self-deletes can be relatively easily undone...
the bug is that the flag should be re-incarnated as an active flag when the answer is undeleted
ideally users who flagged answers would also get notified if that answer gets edited
that way users who delete their own flagged answer and then un-delete it, having edited it at any point, would auto notify anyone who flagged it to come review their flag
 
@ArghyaSadhu Yes. It did. Since author deleted it. But then they undeleted it and the flag wasn't reactivated.
 
and users who delete and undelete without editing would not notify anyone, because the flag would just be auto-resurrected as well
 
I'd be OK if I got notified if a self-deleted NAA post got undeleted. Else I'd have a pending flag without my knowledge. And that would be a little risky. I'm also in favour of being notified on edits for post with pending flags :)
 
@Scratte Why would it be pending without your knowledge?
You cast it, didn't you?
 
6:21 PM
@TylerH Yes, but I wouldn't notice a flag from March getting reactivated. Nor a flag from yesterday.
I'd prefer a notice in my inbox. I understand that wouldn't be a preference for everybody, but perhaps one could opt-in for that.
 
@Scratte I see; well, I might suggest the flag page indicate flags on self-deleted posts be marked separately from "helpful". Maybe something like "auto-cleared" and then clicking on that filter would show each flag and the reason it was auto cleared
but going into your flag page after the answer was undeleted again would show the flag as pending again, so you would notice it... if you go where you can notice such things
 
@TylerH Most of the self-deleted, stay deleted, in my experience. I just went through the 2000 flags I've raised :) Only one slipped. I like them counting as helpful, since most of the time, they are self-deleted due to a comment on mine (not rude or anything like that.)
@TylerH Yes, that's a good point. I'd wonder how that turned up in my pending list.. :D
About the entire privilege thing. I don't see it that way. I don't see it as a privileged to post Questions or Answers. It's contributions that are given for free. Stack is lucky to have user that even do that.
 
@TylerH I think you'd have to be even more in people's face about that. You'd have to say something like: Many of the people you're asking your question of are professionals. They donate their time for free, but could be selling that time as a consultant. If you had to pay them for the time you're asking them to spend on your problem, then you would be incurring hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars of cost for the consulting you're asking for.
 
@Makyen How about: All those Questions that gave way to Answers is being used by professions and even consultants. They all save a lot of time finding solutions here. They're each saving hundreds, if not thousands, or dollars of cost of figuring it all out by themselves :)
 
6:38 PM
@Scratte That works too, but really doesn't apply to the vast majority of questions & answers, particularly the "debug my code" type of questions, which are only very rarely useful to anyone other than the OP (or the answerers, who might learn something from answering).
 
@Makyen Yes, those Questions with code in them are not very useful :D
 
@Makyen I don't necessarily mean I wish to tell people that... just that they'd realize it on their own :-)
Also that NATO is spam-ish
I guess it sort of answers the question
 
@TylerH Yeah, but many (most?) people care, at most, much less for the impact of their actions on others than for the minor immediate benefit they gain.
 
I'd call it a NAA but the question is kind of asking for links
@Makyen True; implicit in my wish, and what it can be boiled down for, is the desire for people to care
 
@TylerH True.
 
Why do I see a message "Suggested edit queue is full" when I press "edit" on a locked post? Should it not say the post is locked?
 
@Dharman sounds like a bug. Post link?
 
@Dharman Not reproducible for me
 
But you don't have editing privileges
 
6:56 PM
@Dharman Didn't content dispute post notices used to say when they were to expire?
 
I think they did, but can't you lock indefinitely?
 
@Dharman That is correct. I'm trying to find Answers to downvote..
 
@Dharman Yes, but I thought it wasn't an option for content disputes, but it obviously is (and I verified that it's a standard available option).
I guess I'm just too used to seeing a time when it expires and having so many userscripts that I start to wonder if I'm messing up the display when I see something unexpected. :;
 
That is very strange. I'm not seeing a time either. Does it mean it's locked forever, or is the time just hidden now?
 
Some people are very determined to dispute the content of their posts :-p
 
7:04 PM
Others just delete them :)
 
I've definitely seen someone wait out an anti-vandalism content lock and immediately vandalize the post again
The moderator who had to deal with the post the second time was not amused.
 
@Scratte It's an indefinite lock. It's not just your display.
 
Another good reason to only post Answers and hope they do not get accepted :D
@Makyen Awesome! I didn't know they even existed. But I see I'm not the only one, as I see your :; <-- eye twitch ;)
 
If you have any more questions about mod tools I can happily answer.
 
@Dharman :)
 
7:10 PM
At least Dharman is well prepared to "delete everything" :)
I'm just noticed that one is not allowed to review Late Answers or First Posts if one it out of up/down votes. It that also the case for the Close Vote and Reopen Vote queue?
 
@Scratte No, it's only the queues for which voting is a possible resolution to a review task for which future reviewing for the day is impossible when one is out of votes
 
@CertainPerformance Ah. Ok, thanks :) I'll try to vote less then :D
 
@Dharman Enhance!
 
@Scratte Not only is voting not a possible resolution, you actually can't vote from the Close/Reopen queues without opening the question in a tab...unless you have a userscript, which I do
I believe they intend to change that to allow voting from the other queues
 
8:05 PM
^Done.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Please don't post messages like this about requests. See FAQ #16. If you want that type of status information, we have the Unclosed Request Review Script (URRS) which will provide status information about requests in the chat window and transcripts.
 
I've already cast and retracted a CV on this - is it detailed enough to migrate to SU? stackoverflow.com/q/63533459
 
@Makyen OK, will not do anymore.
 
@DavidBuck Hmmm, I don't know the software but it seems reasonable. I'd go in on a migration vote if we've got 3 people for it.
 
8:14 PM
@RyanM I use Mendeley and it is a fair question. Having to manually sync the desktop app with documents added to your account through the web extension is a pain.
 
Alright, I'm in. I cast my vote.
 
9:10 PM
@RyanM Yes, part of their planned changes to the review queue (which I saw during a video interview earlier this year or late last year) include adding up/down vote actions on posts in the close/reopen queue.
Or at least, their planned changes at the time showed that
who knows what it looks like now
 
@TylerH I personally wouldn't like that.
 
@TylerH Interesting point. I'm gonna say neither "nae" nor "aye" on that one ... but it's always been one of my pet curiosities that all other review queues have the up/down vote option included. Of course, it's easy to cast such a vote on any review item ... just open it up in a new tab/window.
... although (can't remember) maybe LQP doesn't have it? (I'm out-of-quota today, so I can't check.)
 
@AdrianMole AFAIK, only First post and Late answers have the full tool box. Other queues are more focused.
 
@Braiam Won't disagree - see last reply "..." bit.
Personally, I think an up-vote option in the "Reopen" queue would be useful. If the OP has edited to make it re-openable, then it may be worth an upvote ... even if only to "compensate" for any original downvotes (those who voted so won't get notified).
 
9:55 PM
@AdrianMole I mean, I can check for you :D
That perks comes from being member on many sites at many reputation levels :D
 
@Braiam I'll take your word.
 
@RyanM I've actually just followed the recommendations of that answer and I'm glad I did. Does exactly what the OP wanted.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ If it's a dupe, then it's a very subtle one. (So says an old guy who's just learning about the STL!)
 
10:11 PM
@AdrianMole Not that subtle at all, given the quality of the question IMO.
 
I think your actual vote (needs clarity) ... assuming that was you ... is better. Yep - poor Question.
 
It was me, yes.
 
You now have a +1 on "needs..."
... closed is closed?
 
10:27 PM
@Braiam wow, I never actually looked at your network profile... you really do have quite a lot of stuff network-wide
 
@RyanM Which creates problems when SE makes something SO exclusive :D
 
@Braiam Personally I think it's unacceptable that they haven't done it from the outset. Almost all questions deserving of a close vote are also deserving of a downvote.
 
Half expecting Cody to pop out and tell me I'm wrong, but I usually only cast a downvote and a close vote if I think it's unsalvageable even with OP edits that are likely to happen (plus some other cases like if you're asking about a NullPointerException in your code or if it's particularly bad for other reasons). If I think the OP could fix it, I usually only close vote it, and then circle back to downvote it later if it's not closed and they didn't fix it.
A corollary of this is that I'm much more likely to downvote a question when I'm out of close votes.
"likely to happen" is key there: if you posted a screenshot of part of the log and a sentence asking why it crashed, I really doubt you're going to fix the question, even if you theoretically could. That would get a downvote, and I do often vote from review.
 
@RyanM Technically, you can use your up/down votes however you like.
I just don't want reviewers to be distracted in the close queue. They can always visit the question if they feel like doing it.
 
10:49 PM
@DavidBuck starting to wonder if that needs a canonical, that question gets asked a bunch and O(none) of them are answerable...
 
@RyanM Doesn't that just mean that you'll then be able to close them as duplicates and have to delete vote them, whereas now they'll Roomba?
 
@DavidBuck It'd give the gold-badges (not me) something to hammer to, and maybe it'd get people to stop asking it quite so much...
On the other hand there is literally a link to a help page in the message the store sends, so maybe not...
I guess part of the problem is that I don't even know what the common problems are to write said canonical
 
@RyanM Among various API's I've closed many, many that literally say "The message says 'contact your business development representative'. What should I do?' Even if you could write a canonical, I suspect the people who are posting these questions won't read it.
 
@DavidBuck hahaha...wow, okay, that's bad. I suppose if I figured out how to make it clearer, my time would be better spent trying to edit the linked help page, not write a Stack Overflow answer.
 
11:19 PM
@DavidBuck People don't read books, errors or their own code :D
 

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