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12:11 AM
cbp patch
 
Here is an old 2016 question closed for 'Too broad'/'Needs to be more focused' "Which is faster for load: pickle or hdf5 in python?". It looks ok to me, just needs rewording. Can I and should I edit it? given the OP hasn't. Also it should specify pandas version.
 
12:56 AM
How often do you alias types? e.g. Animal = str.
 
aliasing types is not useful unless you can union them, I wouldn't recommend doing so
 
ok thanks
 
If you want to subclass a type with added functionality, well, that's perfectly okay
 
 
3 hours later…
4:04 AM
@wim Does pypy do the assembly puzzles that much faster? I recall the reddit threads saying something like they're designed with the heat death of the universe in mind.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:36 AM
I'm trying to use pyttsx3. But getting win32api ModuleNotFound error
I have additionally installed pypiwin32
But still getting the error
Can anyone tell me what to do?
 
Make sure you are running the script that uses it with the python version that has it installed
 
@Arne Yeah all are updated
Actually, after restarting the Python shell, it's working :)
 
6:53 AM
Errors in python are Exceptions in Java?
 
@Quark the ol' reliable, turning it off and on again =)
 
@Zeta.Investigator We also have Exceptions in Python
 
cbg guys o/
 
Exceptions are those that can be handled by the computer at the run time
@TheLittleNaruto What does cbg means?
 
@Quark There you go: sopython.com/salad
 
7:01 AM
You can also catch/except Errors, they are all subclasses of BaseException
but yeah, having Errorin the name usually implies that it can't be handled gracefully at runtime. Still, there are plenty of situations where it might make sense to catch and handle them some way.
 
hello?
am I allowed to ask for some C question here?
 
@WantingtobeanAndroidDevelor No, here you go
 
@Arne I mean there is no exception keyword in python, right? It uses "Error" to mean an exception?
 
no because no one is there
asking a question into dark isnt a wise decision
 
@Zeta.Investigator what should and exception keyword do?
 
7:04 AM
@WantingtobeanAndroidDevelor Ok, then you can, I think here we have experts in both languages :)
 
Thx, Im having problem with defining the include path in visual studio
I know how to specify include path
but the code Im trying to import is large
and the header file is scattered everywhere after the include directory
is there a way to say, include all directory tree after the include directory?
 
you can, but if a moderator decides that it's off topic and removes it you can't be surprised =)
 
@Arne not keyword sorry. never mind :D
@WantingtobeanAndroidDevelor You can also post to discord or freenode's server on IRC ##c room if you don't get answer here
 
@Arne 1. Not just moderator. 2. Since when is the answer to "can I ask blatantly non-python here?" not "No!"?
 
7:17 AM
moderator and admin then?
 
@WantingtobeanAndroidDevelor No! We say as nuch in our room rules, but it's common courtesy not to spam chat with what you know doesn't belong there
@Arne moderator and room owner
Nov 10 at 15:02, by Andras Deak
(the term is still "room owner")
See discussion there
 
ok, I'll keep the on-topic-rules in mind
 
@Quark see the above. Just because the bakery is closed you don't go to the hardware store to buy bread
@WantingtobeanAndroidDevelor if you ask a complete question it's not a problem to "ask in the dark" because SO chat is asynchronous
 
 
3 hours later…
10:00 AM
hello
 
hello
 
is python future bad ?
 
What exactly do you mean?
 
some people near me said to me don't use python because python will destroy in future
soon
 
@Mahdimehrabi nope
Perhaps they are using python 2 which has its end of life next year and support is being dropped for it, but people should have been using python 3 for a long time. And python 3 is healthy and fine.
 
10:04 AM
did python have a compiler to convert codes to c or c++ to get very good performance ?
 
Not natively.
 
a way to have performance of c++ in python
 
That's not typical. Python is infamous for its lack of speed, but the idea is that the developer's time is more valuable, and it takes less time to write and read python code.
there are projects that try to compile python code to something more optimal, such as numba (a third-party library) or pypy (a python implementation that JIT-compiles code), but they all have limitations, there's no magic solution
 
very nice
did AI with python need extreme math experience?
 
I don't think the answer to that question depends on the language being used
 
10:25 AM
price_intervals = 100
for i in range(0,df['Discounted Price'].max().astype(np.int64) + price_intervals, price_intervals):
    df.loc[(i > df['Discounted Price']) & (df['Discounted Price'] >= i-price_intervals),'Segment'] = i/price_intervals
    df.loc[(i > df['Discounted Price']) & (df['Discounted Price'] >= i-price_intervals),'Segment Range'] = '{0} to {1}'.format(i-price_intervals, i)

df.groupby(['Segment']).mean().sort_values('Segment', ascending=False)
 
Yes...?
 
I am having an issue with the grouping of my dataframe
 
Is it a secret?
 
I need to display the "Segment Range" as it gives information to the person looking at it, but the groupby of pandas removes this column
I cannot sort by the string as it will not make sense obviously
 
How come it removes "Segment Range" but not the other columns?
 
10:32 AM
df.Groupby['Segment'].mean() only includes the columns that can be averaged and the 'Segment' column and removes the other columns that cannot
 
ah, so it's because it's a string column
 
That includes "Product", "Segment Range", and the other strings
Yeah the segment range is a string
 
I don't know pandas, but can't you just store the string columns elsewhere, and attach them to the dataframe after the groupby but before the sorting?
 
Yeah I can do that just wondering if there was a way in pandas I could do it simultaneously
 
okay
 
10:36 AM
@AndrasDeak What does this mean :P?
 
You just posted that block of code and then there was silence. I was wondering if you'd end up telling us what the issue is
 
Oh right sarcasm
Ok lol
I thought you were referring to the things I wanted to do before
If you still remember
 
I do remember
 
:P the dataset here is the data I have been scrapping
Success
 
yay
 
10:39 AM
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I am still bad at python doe clearly
I thank the SO community for helping a nub like me
 
@Pherdindy looks like you should take a peek at: pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/stable/user_guide/…
 
6
Q: Keep a column with a categorical variable in Pandas with groupby and mean()

Arnold KleinIs there a way to keep the categorical variable after groupby and mean()? For example, given the dataframe df: ratio Metadata_A Metadata_B treatment 0 54265.937500 B10 1 AB_cmpd_01 11 107364.750000 B10 2 AB_cmpd_01...

Clearly I didn't look enough before asking :/ bad habit of mine i'm sorry for my laziness
@JonClements Right it's under this segment of the docs thanks
 
11:42 AM
I just seemed to have gained 180rep today
I'm not sure I like this new an upvote on a question gives you the same as on an answer
At what time is the room meeting? oh nevermind
 
or arguably also typo, OP might be confused about what exactly was going wrong, and it's imo not worth it to untangle
 
The OP seems to have solved it by himself
 
what they posted isn't a fix though
Thanks @Arne, i had written requests in single quote, putting it to double quote solved the problem — Shailesh Mishra 14 mins ago
press 🤔 to doubt
 
I'm amazed y'all can even understand that dude's question
> It installs package in your projects virtual env not in the package i have imported
Wut?
 
sentences like that don't make it past my brain's noise filter
 
11:59 AM
Oh wait. If I understand what he is asking correctly what he wants is impossible
 
"I wrote package & it works locally" -> someone forgot to update *_requires. He probably had written 'request' and copy pasted my suggestion over and didn't notice the missing s.
 
It's a typo basically
It might have helped if he included his setup script
 
it would. but the likeliness of them adding info post-solution gets another 🤔 from me, so closing it is.
 
12:52 PM
1
Q: Have any Hogwarts students been killed by their house animal?

Just raven yellow clawHave any Hogwarts students been killed by their house animal? For example, a Hufflepuff goes walking in the forest, and gets killed by a badger.

^^^ that made me chuckle... that last sentence :)
 
I'll be harvesting today and will miss the room meeting. My only input is I agree with the idea that an update of the room the description would be useful. Hope everyone has a nice meeting.
 
@AhmyOhlin that doesn't look like python, so you're in the wrong room
 
Please keep your favorite room clean and beautiful by staying on-topic :-)
 
1:52 PM
When Tkinter's "mouse button clicked" event fires, it passes 1, 2, or 3 as the num argument, indicating which button was clicked. Same for "mouse button released". But when "mouse moved while button was held" fires, num is "??". This annoys me.
 
Could you accept my request to /python-ouroboros-the-rotating-knives please
 
Nope. Could you please stop requesting access to a room that is clearly not for chat?
that room is the farm beyond the rainbow bridge where some messages go
 
It's effectively a read-only room. If you have a proposal for something else the room could do which would require write access, perhaps you could bring it up when we open the floor at the end of today's room meeting
I guess tkinter can't assign a single number to num while I'm dragging the mouse, because I might be holding down more than one button. It would be convenient for me if it returned a tuple of mouse button numbers in that case, but maybe it's hard to get the TCL half of the engine to track that kind of state.
 
Okay I understand. Thanks that much
 
I can keep a set of mouse buttons held, and add/remove to/from it during clicked/released mouse events, I guess. Good thing release events fire for a widget even if the user drags the cursor out of the window, so (AFAICT) it's impossible for a release event to go uncaught
 
2:14 PM
So I was looking for this chatroom, and noticed there is another chatroom: "The advanced python group"... Someone's trying to one-up us.
 
Nothing wrong with a little friendly competition :-)
 
Gotta spy on the competition :P
"The advanced python group: Do more with python! All users welcome! [python] [python-2.7] [python-3.x]"
Oh ok. Nevermind it looks like <s>both Andras and roganjosh</s> a lot of people have seen this before me...
 
Nothing wrong with discussing Python 2.7. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it, after all
Like, it would be cool to get a rundown of old-style classes, even though they aren't used any more
Perhaps "let's discuss some lesser-known minutae of the language" would be better as a blog than a chat room, though... It's hard to fit an explanation of anything advanced in a 500 character box
 
2:29 PM
yeah, imagine someone discussing class namespaces in here
total madness
 
@Kevin Also, what's obvious to one is not necessarily obvious to another. and vice versa
 
Empirically true, based on the kinds of questions I see on the main site every day
 
@Kevin This also makes it theoretically true because you only need one counter example :P
 
"Why is my function returning None?" "Because you have eight different conditional paths and only two of them encounter a return statement before hitting the end of the function." "Oh. So what should I do about that?" "Just... don't do the thing I just said."
(I have intentionally chosen an example where the solution is not, in fact, objectively obvious. This problem cuts both ways.)
 
2:45 PM
if "don't do something bad" were an objectively obvious answer, all questions would be dupes
 
All questions are dupes of the Ur-question, "how do I be a good programmer?", whose answer is as multitudinous as the stars in the sky
The "too broad" close reason was created to seal away the terrible power of this question. Mankind is not yet ready.
 
on a totally unrelated sidetone: mypy having both "unknown, assume Any" and "known, reject Any" makes for some really unpleasant ergonomics.
 
It is rumored that the Question's asker, DenverCoder9, edited in the message "never mind guys, I figured it out" before deleting the post and vanishing from the realm of man
Ergonomics as in, like, posture? Does the feature make you want to throw your monitor across the room, which is a strain on the back?
Remember to throw with your knees.
 
3:08 PM
cbg
 
@Kevin ergonomic, as in user friendly? At least I guess that's appropriate. I've had a rather unfriendly type checker yell at me for using inappropriate type words. The cause being its own incompetence. Which I find rather inappropriate.
 
@MisterMiyagi Could you imagine describing each execution step from the CPython implementation as an explanation as to why you get the error?
 
I'm tainted by academia. Any explanation based on a specific implementation is either not broad enough or wrong.
 
Proof by implementation is not a valid proof. Otherwise, no language would be turing complete.
 
I've written a couple answers that do describe what CPython does when you execute a particular statement. Most recently I traced from the BINARY_SUBSCR bytecode generated by a[x], and drilled down to the place where obj.__getitem__ is actually called. It's a fun exercise.
It would be more fun if github had a "jump to definition" shortcut, but I digress
 
3:24 PM
@Kevin I agree. Fortunately, I think they're working on that.
 
@Kevin I also have a couple of those. But they are strictly about showing what CPython does. For which CPython is the set of all implementations, strictly speaking.
 
I only partially agree with "Any explanation based on a specific implementation is either not broad enough or wrong" because sometimes the required behavior for some Python feature is "whatever CPython does in this case". It's a bit backwards but that's what we've got.
 
actually wait they do...
@Kevin My comment about proof by implementation was tongue in cheek lol.
@Kevin Wherever a function is called, click on it. This will highlight it with yellow and it will show you where it is defined.
 
@Kevin ultimately, CPython represents all possible implementations of itself. Which is sufficiently recursive mindfart for me to accept.
 
@MisterMiyagi Right, makes sense.
 
3:27 PM
oh but the definition thing only work within the file.
 
by the way, didn't you try bootstrapping your own meta class hierarchy some time ago? any luck with that?
 
I think I determined that somewhere deep in the object model, the type type is getting special treatment that you can't replicate with just Python code.
Or maybe it was a problem of infinite regress, where you can make your own type, but the type of that type's type is still type. You can change it to a custom type, but then the type's type's type's type's type is still type.
 
yeah... type's its own parent :p
 
That little kernel of self-referentiality is hard to replicate with pure Python. For much the same reason that you can't make a tuple whose first element is itself.
 
@Kevin I've managed the infinitely recursive type. What I did not manage was getting infinitely recursive fields to work in any meaningful way.
 
3:34 PM
You got farther than me, then :-)
 
well, at least now I have a hunch why __getattribute__ and friends are ignored in so many cases
 
@MisterMiyagi is there one!?
 
@Kevin you can ...
But in C only
@Kevin type is an object and object is a type.
 
Agreed. CPython can easily pull off self-referentiality tricks with the benefit of its low-level powers. This is harder to do in the end-user sandbox.
 
Guys, how do I trim an image like this using python so the pants are in the center of the image...right now they are shifted to the right...i.ibb.co/MNgbHzr/testic.jpg
 
3:47 PM
This could be why Skynet ends up so yammed off with us in the future and decides to wipe us out with time travel being used for exaggerated irony... "YOU THINK A PARENT BEING A PARENT AND CHILD OF ITSELF IS FUNNY.... TAKE THAT HUMANS!"
 
the size should stay the same 900x1200 px
 
@AnotherUser31 Pillow is pretty good at cropping images.
And/or shifting the contents of an image to the left without changing its size
 
@Kevin I have this piece of code that trims it but I need I guess to fill up the canvas again so I get at the end 900x1200 size
from PIL import Image, ImageChops

def trim(im):
bg = Image.new(im.mode, im.size, im.getpixel((0,0)))
diff = ImageChops.difference(im, bg)
diff = ImageChops.add(diff, diff, 2.0, -100)
bbox = diff.getbbox()
if bbox:
return im.crop(bbox)

im = Image.open("testic.jpg")
im = trim(im)
im.show()
 
What the heck is diff = ImageChops.add(diff, diff, 2.0, -100)? You add the image to itself, then divide it by 2 (that's a no-op so far) and then subtract 100? Why?
 
@Aran-Fey that's what found working the best so far :) don't judge me bro' :)
 
3:58 PM
Partial solution:
im = Image.open("testic.jpg")
cropped = trim(im)
im.paste(cropped, (
    int((im.size[0] - cropped.size[0])/2),
    int((im.size[1] -cropped.size[1])/2)
))
im.show()
 
What's trim?
 
This puts the pants in the right position, but the old pants are still visible to the side. Todo: clear out the contents of im before pasting cropped on top of it.
I would do it myself but the room meeting is starting in thirty seconds
 
ah
 
Hello, it's time for the room meeting. Because nobody took the hammer away from me last time, I'll be your chairman for today.
6
I intend to go over each item in the agenda, but I'd like to defer the first two bullet points to the end, since they're both from 2018 and current events are more interesting.
So our first topic is: "How effective are these meetings at enacting real change? If they are not effective, why not? What can be done to improve this?"
Here are my thoughts on the matter. For the most part, the RO team is putting a good-faith effort into working on the issues raised during meetings. There are a couple reasons that this doesn't always bear fruit.
One big one is that resolutions aren't concretely actionable. We might resolve something like "let's create a side channel for anonymous feedback". Then a discussion ensues about design choices like "should it be anonymous? Should we be able to send messages to specific ROs?" Important questions, but in the time allotted in the meeting we don't manage to nail down the requirements.
 
so then nothing happens for... how long? A year?
 
4:08 PM
I believe that as long it's not too time consuming - such things can be brought up generally in chat and be discussed (as long as we're not neglecting time spent on helping people formulate questions or get answers) and that there's always (I believe it's still available) - anyone can send an email to chatroom@sopython.com thus that it reaches all RO's?
 
@Aran-Fey Right. That brings up another reason. Resolutions that require development are tackled on a voluntary basis. We've all got day jobs, so if nobody can prioritize putting together a prototype, it's hard to twist the screws on anybody to make it happen.
 
I haven't got a day job, I am pulling all-nighters, which is even worse
 
I didn't even realize there was an actual list of specific issues to be worked on (never having attended a room meeting before). The only issue I can think of recently is "be nicer to green beans". It would help if this list were more prominent in some way.
 
join the club @Antti :p
 
I do think it's a problem that these sorts of things fall through the crack for months at a time. It's not right, and we can do better.
 
@PaulMcG it's been pinned for ages at the top of the room's star board - I'm not sure how more prominent it could be made other than that :(
 
At the very least I'd like to see more transparency on the level of "still haven't worked on this yet"
 
(we can get back to that at the end if we have time, because I think I'm involved)
 
I didn't equate a meeting agenda with a to-do list.
 
It might be good to have a list of "resolutions requiring action", separate from the agenda points for each meeting and/or the retrospective that gets made for each meeting after the fact
 
4:14 PM
And I should explore the wiki contents further
 
I think what I'll try after the meeting is setting up a kanban-type thing, either as a wiki page on SOPython itself, or on SOPython's github page
 
sounds good, thanks, Kevin
 
Worst-case scenario we have a lot of items that sit in the "not assigned yet" category indefinitely, but that's still better visibility than "maybe someone's working on it???"
 
labels for "will strive to do" and "not sure - needs more input" definitely won't go amiss
 
I endorse Jon's suggestion of bringing resolutions up in the chat. That's how we got the ball rolling for this very meeting, so it's at least sometimes effective ;-)
If you ping me specifically about it, I'll try my very best to give a useful reply.
 
4:17 PM
+1 for github's kanban, specific topics can also be discussed and clarified on their tickets there
 
Ok, that's two concrete resolutions made for this issue: make a kanbanny thing, and respond constructively to status update request pings. Let's go to the next agenda item.
 
the main network may have forgotten its community, but I strongly believe this room hasn't... it might be a bit more 6-8 than it should be (we've had some many ideas/implementations/blah blah over the 7 years this room has been functional), but yes, let's work out better ways of doing so and anonymously if necessary
 
Agenda item the nexth: "Change room description to remove cruft. Recommendation: “Room rules <link>\n Formatting guide <link>”"
 
Potential ad-on: link to the kanban, as soon as it's made
 
Yeah, that's my intention
 
4:20 PM
I think that's implied
 
I'm a bit late, but I want to point out how incredibly disrespectful it is to forbid us from discussing RO behavior here in the room until this feedback thingy is implemented, and then months later there's still nothing except some brainstorming about how to work on it more efficiently.
 
I expect the idea here is that new users are more likely to follow the links if they're basically the only thing in the description. I'm not opposed to the idea, although as always I'm pessimistic about our ability to actually influence the behaviors of new users
neophytes gonna neophyte after all.
 
I don't think that stripping the title would help link discoverability. A huge problem is that the title is virtually non-existent on mobile, which is a systemic problem
 
@Kevin yup... let's do that... "salad", while I don't think harmful is a years old thingy now... let's keep the lingo out of the room title
 
wim
it's had its run. remove the noise.
 
4:22 PM
I like that the title suggests that we don't take ourselves too seriously, but I don't insist if you think it should go. Consider it -0
 
And a link to the wiki too? I didn't even realize there was one
 
@AndrasDeak Hmm. Are the links not visible on mobile? Would making the the title shorter make them visible?
 
No, if you look for a room in chat you can only find its description page if you enter the chatroom and then look at the menu for it
nobody ever does that, I bet
 
so what shows on desktop is: "The productive programming cabbage. Guide to formatting code in chat: sopython.com/wiki/…. Room rules: sopython.com/chatroom"
 
same with the starboard; it's largely hidden on mobile
once you click the info page link in the menu you see the desktop version of the info page...
 
4:24 PM
If you see the room list: "https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms"
one can see there: The productive programming cabbage. Guide to formatting …
 
@PaulMcG Both the existing links go to pages where the wiki is visible in the navigation bar, but I acknowledge that it's not directly accessible from chat.
 
the thing is it is the room description, not a link placeholder unfortunately :(
I am not sure the "Guide to formatting" for example or "rules" would help the people to find out if they want to join the room or not
 
We of advanced years still think the desktop is the main interface, but most of the new people will be on mobile, so making an effort to be mobile-friendly is worth doing
 
(my own point is that mobile is fundamentally broken)
 
"Welcome to Python: etiquette (<link>)" or something
 
4:26 PM
mobile is broken.
 
I think people do a good job of deciding whether to join the room already, regardless of what the description says. "Do I want to talk about Python? (Y/N)"
 
it lacks so many features it is painful to use.
 
wim
@JonClements Don't mention "Python" because it's directly above
 
okay then... I'd vote for removing the first sentence?
 
4:27 PM
(and the starboard link is the desktop starboard page which is also broken)
 
wim
@JonClements yes.
 
and swapping the last two around
 
@JonClements works for me, although I anticipate zero improvement (and maybe more confusion with cabbage)
 
rules first, formatting assistance later
 
wim
ok
 
4:28 PM
I agree that rules-then-formatting is a logical order
 
I added formatting on a whim, and I figured the last item is more likely to be read
(so feel free to juggle)
 
wim
"Guide to formatting code in chat" -> "Formatting guide" or "Code formatting tips"
 
neither of your suggestions work for me
 
and while at it, on mobile, the links are not shortened, we should have a better = shorter url for that formatting link
 
"formatting guide" is unclear, the real issue is code formatting. and "code formatting tips" sounds like something optional
 
4:29 PM
errrrr.... can we keep on track of what as a room we can do rather than limitations or constraints of the site please?
 
https://sopython.com/codeinchat/
 
We can't put hotlinks in the description, but we could perhaps use a third party link shortener
 
(in before sopython link shortening service)
 
wim
"Code formatting syntax"
 
4:31 PM
Ok, resolution: strip the description down to just links, with rules first, then formatting, and perhaps also a link to the wiki. Urls will be shortened with whatever reputable link shortener I can find.
 
<blink>Read this to format code</blink>
 
"Format your chat posts like a boss", "Rock star code formatting in chat"
 
@Kevin sopython.com is short enough, if we can deploy. A redirect is sufficient.
 
next(iter_agenda). "Spoiler feature is not working - remove the link from the room rules page until it is fixed."
 
The spoiler userscript still works, right?
 
wim
4:32 PM
yes
 
Yeah. spoiler decoding works, but not encoding from the spoiler page.
 
perhaps we could amend that line with ("currently only available via a [userscript]")
 
My personal jimmies are mildly rustled that the spoiler encoder has been on the fritz, but my efforts to locate the cause haven't borne fruit, so, such is the way of things
 
wim
Just remove it. I will make a PR to fix it if you want.
or anyone else that knows js / web dev
 
I think removing it is an acceptable stopgap until such time as functionality is restored
 
wim
4:34 PM
it's kind of bugged and useless anyway, the userscript is better
 
it's not like newbies want to post spoilers all the time
 
wim
even when it kinda worked there was text you could enter that made the site return 500.
 
Are you saying you broke it?
 
If troubleshooting drags on I'll put a link to the userscript in
 
I see on the wiki that there is a Userscripts page. But not being JS-adept, I'm not sure how these userscripts are used. Could that be added to that page? Then I would be happy to use the spolier userscript
 
wim
4:35 PM
there was a PR open since february but nobody cares github.com/sopython/sopython-site/pull/177
 
@PaulMcG Ok, fine, I'll write up a tiny userscipt guide, or find a nice existing one
 
@PaulMcG yeah, sure. There is probably an SO-related link due to stackapps.com, we can look for one
 
we've now reached nearly 1hr
 
Resolution: remove link to spoiler page in room rules
Resolution: add an explanation of userscripts to the userscript page.
 
what's left
 
4:36 PM
Four new items, then I want to circle back to 2018's old items, which I hope will be very fast
Agenda item: "should we have/elect someone to be in charge of these meetings?"
Well, we have one, he's me. But I wasn't elected.
 
wim
Nah, you're doing a good job
I think you should consider electing RO's though, rather than just choosing your buddies
 
@wim I think "how should we do RO succession?" is an important issue, but somewhat separate from this item, so I'd like to talk about it after we cover existing agenda items
 
wim
ok
 
I think it couldn't hurt to have an informal election for chairmanship... It would be easy to have a section in the room meeting wiki page for nominations/votes. It's on the honor system not to remove other people's ballots though ;-)
 
wim
4:40 PM
I have to go in about 10 mins though, just fyi. got other meeting at $EMPLOYER.
 
In response to the agenda item, I'm fine with self-nomination by Kevin or whomever. Kevin, in the absence of a process, you will probably be assumed to take the mantle on this. If you don't want to, I think just a post the day or two before the meeting would let people know that someone else is expected to step up.
 
I'm in favor of something a little more formal then "Kevin just kind of decides to do it" since there tends to be a little bit of ambiguity about who should be preparing their soapbox
 
An election seems like a lot of process when we just need someone to manage the meeting to the agenda
 
Resolution: add a section to future room meetings for proposing the chairman
 
And self-proposing is allowed
(also called volunteering)
 
4:42 PM
and declining the role should also be allowed
 
wim
RO's can figure that out between themselves
 
Next: "do we want to have a free gitlab instance where regulars can migrate/preserve good question + answer discussions that happen in chat, which can be given a named-and-searchable link on sopython?"
 
It seems out-of-order to elect ROs without discussing RO behavior in general and what needs to be improved.
 
wim
you guys are all sensible and mature, just pick someone.
 
RO election is a different matter than chairman election, so let's talk about that in a bit
 
4:44 PM
@Kevin sounds like overkill to me
 
wim
No, overkill. And gitlab sucks.
 
I don't know what a gitlab instance is, but I'd be happy to have a better system for marking conversations as interesting than the rather dismal room bookmark system
 
I think it means a self-hosted private gitlab service
 
@smci there's a huge difference between an internal discussion among RO's and who is going to chair a meeting, vs, who's a mod on the site and blah blah blah
 
wim
good question + answers belong on main
 
4:45 PM
@wim agree, if not too broad
 
agree - post on main as a self-answered question
 
We already have a common questions page, which sort of satisfies the need of having good question/answers. Although that's more targeted towards linking to good SO posts rather than good chat convos.
 
or if someone cherishes these code snippets (I personally never look them up) one can create a private repo somewhere and collect links to the discussions there
 
But, as has been said, maybe that's how it ought to be, since that's what the main site is for
 
forward please.
 
wim
4:47 PM
the common questions page could do with a link to that excellent dupe finder stack app
and maybe a json of the content to dump into it
 
Resolution: we won't create a gitlab instance ourselves, but if any of you regular users wants to make your own, we're powerless to stop you
Forward: proposal: ‘define a consensus list of “the Python SO room’s priority list of unimplemented SO change requests, from 2018 and 2019” [… ] maybe one good approach to take is “here’s list of stuff that is near-universally agreed to be needed across all SE sites, not just SO or code-related sites” […] Then when SO doesn’t do diddly, we can at least say “We requested you guys to implement these for several years running” ’
 
@JonClements (I misunderstood, due to the comment about "RO succession". Ok that was only about chair for this mtg. I'm late to the mtg, but are we discussing RO behavior in the remaining 12 min? (If not, then we seem to be missing the elephant))
 
(Oops, I skipped the pandas one, we'll do that next)
 
(where's "RO behaviour" on the agenda? anyway, we'll get there oh, the old ones!)
 
I will continue my pessimistic streak by saying that SO will do diddly regardless of our priorities
 
wim
4:49 PM
yes that pointless
they don't even listen to suggestions on meta with 500 upvotes
 
I don't think they'll care at all, so it's a waste of our time and our hopes, alas
 
Next item please
 
(Incidentally I'm willing to continue the meeting for as long as we have items to cover. I can't speak for the other ROs' schedules, alas)
 
but if no one ever requests anything then outsiders will think we're happy :)
 
I think we have four votes for "nay", so resolution: no formal priority list. But if someone wants to start one on petition.org, we're powerless to stop you
I'd like to circle back to the 2018 Q4 items that we didn't get around to discussing
 
4:51 PM
my immediate action is: change the room title to removed all referencing to "cabbage"
 
"Should we invite new users from the main site to chat, to guide them into asking better questions?". I don't think we need a formal resolution for this. If you want to foster a user, go ahead and invite them.
 
+1
 
yup, no need to pro-actively spam main with the room
 
@AndrasDeak a) "review of 2018 Q3 meeting" in previous Room meetings the room was self-described by regulars as 'unwelcoming' for a couple of years running b) Kevin said "when we open the floor at the end of today's room meeting".
 
yes, yes, thank you
 
4:53 PM
"bulletin board for job referrals"
I'm not particularly in favor... I'd like to keep things non-commercial
 
and I still want people to be able to come to chat... heck... even some are bloomin' beep, but we don't have the ability to do so: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/257949/…
 
@Kevin I doubt it would see much use, considering that we send away job offers (mostly because they smell like spam)
sending job offers somewhere could work, but only if there's anything on the receiving end
 
Unless someone has a moving speech in favor, I think we'll resolve to continue going without one
"Should we change our policy about trimming items from the starboard?"
 
no
for instance, I insist that ad hominem remarks and directed snark shouldn't stay
 
The items I trim are stars that new users award to blocks of code in order to thank the person that helped them. Those are of pretty limited interest, so I don't feel much guilt taking them down after a few minutes
 
wim
4:56 PM
What is the policy?!
I've seen stuff randomly removed just because a RO didn't like that user
 
allegedly
 
Both of those are reasonable and welcome
 
I don't know if we have a policy written down. It seems to comprise "code blocks, mean stuff, things that only one person finds interesting"
 
wim
yah all 3 of those are fine by me
 
The last one being applied quite sparingly, to my eye
 
4:58 PM
I haven't once had to annotate my unstar actions with a reason, so it's not just a bit speculative to try and figure out why something got unstarred
 
wim
not problem with the current RO's so shrugs
ack, gotta go, I will catch up on the rest of the topics later 👋
 
Ok, resolution: leave as-is, but perhaps write down our loose guidelines somewhere visible
 
rhubarb
 
@Kevin ... like the wiki?
 
Yeah :-)
Circling back times two, review of 2018 resolutions:
 
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

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