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1:22 PM
Ooh, every Infocom game got uploaded to github: github.com/historicalsource?tab=repositories
Clicking around, I see that some (all?) of the READMEs discuss "Basic Information on the Contents of This Repository" which gives some insight into Infocom's development and curation processes. Nobody knows how to actually build anything, several years of file history is missing, the code on the server may not match the code actually deployed, every project starts out as a copy-paste of another project, and the common dependency of all projects has a large number of incompatible versions.
It's very humanizing, I like it.
I would like it more if we had a working compiler and a complete file history and clear documentation about which versions of the Z-machine are required, but I'll take what I can get.
 
Sam
Hey guys. I'm trying to make a single hash value which represents the uniqueness of a Python dict object. Reason for: I'm storing json blobs to a postgres db and I want to alongside it store a hash value. If I then want to update the json blob (without knowing if the data contained has changed) I can first check the hashes to see if they are the same. If the hashes are the same, the json is the same and I don't need to perform an update. I've tried using:
str(hashlib.md5(json.dumps(blob).encode("utf-8")).digest()) where blob is a dict but I seem to be getting different hashes each time I run the python program and the data definitely isn't changing
 
That's unusual, I'd expect it to be the same every time.
 
Why are you storing JSON blobs?
 
In any case, watch out. "If the hashes are the same, the json is the same" is not true. Two objects that are not equal can hash to the same value.
 
Sam
@Kevin Oh really.. Is there a better way to handle my requirement?
 
1:36 PM
Having a 128 bit digest makes it not very likely that you'll get a collision, but it's still possible.
 
Sam
@roganjosh why not?
 
Flipping it around doesn't answer the question, though. I'm curious why you need this.
 
If blob is a dict, then most likely its keys aren't in the same order every time, so then json.dumps doesn't dump the keys in the same order every time, so then you don't get the same hash every time.
 
I don't think it's possible to be 100% sure that no data has changed unless you actually look at every bit of data.
 
Try json.dumps with sort_keys=True
 
1:38 PM
I'd still like to understand why we're storing JSON anyway and whether it's even necessary
 
Same, but my concerns apply equally to any other kind of data
 
N.B. I suggested Martelli's hashable dict before sending Sam here stackoverflow.com/a/1151686/5067311
I guess that'd still need stringification for a db
 
@AndrasDeak not sure I can think of a good reason to be storing data like this anyway tbh. I could be wrong.
 
Sam
@roganjosh Because I need to store a piece of unstructured data in a relational table
 
Relying on python's builtin hash doesn't sound like a great idea in this case. Md5 will definitely always produce the same result in every python version; hash might not
 
1:41 PM
Can you give an example?
 
Sam
@roganjosh I'm pulling a data from an Excel worksheet which I can always infer the number of columns is static but the number of values in a given column can vary
 
IIRC the builtin hash intentionally adds a random salt in order to foil low-effort DOS attacks, and this means you can't depend on it to give the same value across multiple executions
... But this only occurs for certain arguments. I want to say... Strings and datetimes, and a third type.
 
If it's coming from excel then it can almost certainly be stored as multiple entries in a relational database
JSON is an interim format that you've created, presumably to save space, but it's unlikely to be helpful in the long run
 
Sam
@roganjosh That's fair enough. But the whole JSON blob is used in a different service so it's a lot easier to have a single table containing a jsonb field to avoid a bunch of merges and a big Db schema
 
Honestly - footgun. I really don't think you wanna do this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization and stick with the age-old wisdom
If it doesn't fit that paradigm, use Mongo or even Redis. But storing JSON in Postgres does, in my head, give you a rabbit hole you're gonna drop into
 
1:49 PM
@Sam can you check the json blob itself?
1 string rather than 1 dict?
Assuming you won't listen to roganjosh :P
Is a json blob the source of truth?
 
If I'm reading the table at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_attack#Mathematics correctly, a well-distributed 128-bit hash algorithm will generate approximately one collision for every 22 trillion hashes. So using md5 digests to confirm equality may be good enough, depending on your application.
 
@Sam That's very weird MD5 is totally stable. But it is a hash, and very sensitive, with good avalanching, a single moved space will normally produce a totally different hash. Even a single flipped bit can do that, eg change one letter from lower to upper case.
 
If a false positive causes your application to return a 404 once, then that's acceptable. If a false positive causes your application to launch a nuclear missile and destroy the moon, then that's not acceptable.
 
My concerns are less about nuclear winters on the moon and more about how you deal with data tbh
 
Sam
@AndrasDeak Going to investigate the blobs as that's the most logical cause of the difference
 
1:55 PM
If your project has enough funding to construct a moon-killing missile, then you can afford hardware that's beefy enough to check full strings against one another
 
Sam
I have no beef with the moon
 
you should, he's abandoning us
 
Well, I tried. Now we're back to the moon being in jeopardy.
 
That's why we're detonating nuclear missiles on its surface - to nudge it back into a stable orbit.
 
MD5 is fine for applications that don't need top cryptographic security, but these days it's mostly only used for backwards compatibility. Even SHA1, which is 160 bit, is in the same boat, although they're both usable for applications like yours, or things like HMAC. If you're really paranoid about collisions, use SHA-256, although it's slightly slower.
 
1:58 PM
Never mind that the energy required to do this may or may not turn the entire thing into a red hot blob of iron that subsequently rains down upon us
 
It must be blowing things up day. In The h Bar a few hours ago, I mentioned colliding a neutron star with an anti-neutron star.
 
I'm curious about why we're discussing collisions when the data being stored as JSON isn't actually justified?
 
I have no sense of right and wrong so I latch on to fun technical problems even if they're embedded in an obviously impractical context
 
Maybe there is a good reason for this problem arising, but I certainly haven't seen it
 
@roganjosh Bikeshedding, while we wait for Sam to justify using JSON to store blobs.
 
2:01 PM
I assume that Sam is doing some deep soul-searching re:json, and in the meantime I will frolick in the land of hash theory
 
The Bikeshedding has just gone back to concerns about the moon :P
 
Another way to avoid collisions is to use MD5 & SHA1. The hashing algorithms are sufficiently different that it would be very hard for an attacker to produce a collision on both simultaneously, even if they had the huge computing resources required to carry out such an attack.
 
We're not talking security, only false negatives for db updates
 
Cbg - Ah, just wanted to make sure your all still here. My universe is affirmed, validated, stable. The world will not fall over. I can sleep now. Thanks for being the human beings you are. (Chuckle) Rhbrb.
 
^^
 
2:14 PM
@AndrasDeak True, and 288 bits of hash give you a lot of insurance against collisions. :)
 
No collisions. You're enticed by that side of things but it should never be stored like this in the first place
It just isn't conducive to general database workings. Dumping JSON into the DB is not helpful but I fear I've failed to make my point
 
>>> os.path.join("abc", "{def")
'abc\\{def'
>>> os.path.join("abc", ":def")
'abc\\:def'
>>> os.path.join("abc", "{:def")
'{:def'
 
@roganjosh the only reason I'm not talking is because you already said everything
 
Windoooooows
 
@Arne That was my last comment on the matter. It's a bit frustrating but oh well
 
2:21 PM
it's going to be fine
if worst comes to worst, someone is going to learn db handling the hard way =)
@Kevin I'm curious, what does pathlib give you for that case?
 
Let's see.
>>> import pathlib
>>> pathlib.Path("abc", "{:def")
WindowsPath('abc/{:def')
 
Sam
@roganjosh I have taken your point to my boss.. It's not however up for me to decide
 
The lads at stackoverflow.com/questions/55710321/… think this is probably because colons indicate drive letters in certain contexts
 
I think Aran-Fey's called it chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/45949618#45949618 If this data is going into a Python dict, and it's not Py 3.6+, then the dict order is unstable, unless you explicitly disable hash randomization.
@Sam What Python version are you using?
 
@Sam Which point exactly? Not Storing JSON?
 
Sam
2:28 PM
3.7
@roganjosh to not store JSON and to instead create a proper relational schema
 
Be interesting to see how they respond :)
 
Poll: I'm writing a piece of code that needs to modify some type annotations - specifically, I need to wrap the annotation in typing.Optional, if it isn't already. I can either rely on Optional[X] == Optional[Optional[X]] being True, or I can try to find a hack that reliably tells me whether the annotation already is an Optional (which is harder than it may sound, given that the typing module is a train wreck). Which poison should I pick?
 
Sam
What are you reasons for not storing JSON anyway
 
Ok, then the dict key order should be stable. Can you create some fake data that exhibits this problem. We can't do much more without a MCVE.
 
Sam
@PM2Ring I'm currently investigating the actual JSON to see if there are differences between runs :) Thanks @PM2Ring
 
2:30 PM
Because it's a string, so postgres can't do anything to index the data it contains
 
Sam
My question is pretty much answered.. it should be stable. That points to the actual blob which i should be able to handle
@roganjosh I don't need to index the blob. Other attributes can be indexed
 
But you can't join on it either
 
Storing non-flat data as a text blob in a db is an inflexible approach because that data is largely opaque to all of the usual db tools. For example, if the typical blob looks like "{id: 10, created_date: '9/9/99'}", then there's no way to order your results by id or created_date.
 
Sam
Postgres also has a json data type so there must be use cases for it?
 
Nor is there any way to select all blobs with a created date after Jan 1 2010
 
Sam
2:31 PM
@Kevin I take that point. I'm also storing other pieces of querying data
 
You probably can filter results on it, but you're gonna have to scan the entire DB each time
 
Sam
the json is ultimately what I'm interested in, but I'm also storing attributes such as identifiers, datetimes for that type of querying. I'll never directly query the json, it's just what I would want to return
 
If you wanna store things like that then maybe you want Mondo-DB, as I suggested earlier. Doing string searches on every record is going to be very slow
 
Sam
I'm not disputing btw, just trying to deduce why I shouldn't store it
@roganjosh String searches?
 
How do you find keys?
 
Sam
2:36 PM
I don't have a use case where I don't return the whole json blob
 
"I'll definitely never need to inspect the blob's data at the DB level" is a good sign that this won't become a disaster later on.
 
Sam
@Kevin Yup, that's exactly what I'm doing
 
Eh, in any case, I'm glad I prompted you to raise with your manager. For now, I guess it ends that line of query until they respond
 
Any project can become a disaster but at least we've got one positive portent to start with
 
Sam
@roganjosh Thanks for pointing it out. It definitely makes sense if I were to be querying keys etc
 
2:52 PM
@Kevin You may be still thinking about old relational style dbs. Document and NoSQL dbs like MongoDB actually embrace this model, and implement things like indexes on fields within a document so that full scanning isn't required. MongoDB has many pitfalls of its own, but the NoSQL dbs are all about this "store it in a blob and we'll figure it out for you" approach
 
@PaulMcG Twice I raised Mongo. I don't think there was any ambiguity. This is storing JSON in postgres
 
My bad for jumping in in the middle
Oh, and cbg
 
:P
cbg
 
Yeah, relational dbs are what I had in mind.
 
work work work
 
2:59 PM
Hello, I'm upgrading some code to use python3 that was previously written in 2 and utilizes a behavior in the string module that no longer exists in 3 (string.letters). Based on this snippet, what would be the recommended way to change it without changing functionality?

if ' ' in foo:
bar['has_name'], fob = foo.split(' ')
bar['number'] = fob.split('/')[0][1:]
bar['long_number'] = fob.split('/')[0][1:]

else:
if foo[0] not in string.letters:

if DEBUG:
print('!!!!!! bad line:')
print((' line=%s' % line))
 
I'm using UTF-8 unless I can convert later?
eventually this leads to generating a document from data gathered from a server
 
I don't think you'll have a problem but my knowledge is poop on encoding, despite best efforts
 
I'll try it out and go from there.
thanks
 
3:17 PM
cbg
 
Oh, the joy of trying to find out the email address that was registered to this software license when we bought it 5+ years ago
 
@WSLUser You probably should change your code logic a little to be more in line with Python 3 string handling. Your code should be working with Unicode text, and most of your program should be oblivious to what encoding is used to read & write that text.
Python 2 string.letters can handle codes outside the 7 bit ASCII range, if you use locale correctly. I recommend that instead of using a string membership test that you use the str.isalpha method.
 
I guess I could just enter all of my coworker's emails into the "forgot your password?" field and see if any of them get a reply
Here's hoping they used an address that we didn't lose control of during the corporate takeover
Oh, there's a "need more help?" button on the website, that's handy... Aaaand it redirects to Invalid URL. Lovely.
 
Yeah, I wasn't the original writer for the code. I just get to modernize it. Already experienced the pain of converting optparse to argparse only to have pylint tell methere's a few more things to address specific to 3.
 
Sam
@AndyK cbg
 
3:24 PM
I like (isalpha) better than ascii_letters
 
@WSLUser If your Python 2 code manipulates UTF-8 bytes (apart from decoding them to Unicode on reading data, and encoding from Unicode when writing it) there's a good chance that it doesn't always do what you think it does, even if it works perfectly on ASCII text. It may also behave properly on true Latin1 text (but with slight bugs on Microsoft's variant cp1252). Any chars with Unicode codepoints > 255 may do "interesting" things. ;)
 
No encoding/decoding going on but the data being collected doesn't want to present itself in a reader-friendly way without UTF-8. There was a line at the beginning of the 2 code saying to use UTF-8 by default. 3 removes the need for that fortunately.
Also, no Windows Servers to deal with. Just pure Linux (well containerized anyways)
 
I wonder whether a more sophisticated parsing library might be able to better handle these kinds of details.
 
Ned Batchelder describes this approach with a "sandwich" metaphor. The bread of the sandwich represents input & output, which handle decoding of input bytes and encoding of output bytes. Inside the sandwich you only have yummy Unicode goodness. This happens pretty naturally in Python 3, but in Python 2 you need to be more explicit with this process, and avoid mixing plain byte strings with Unicode text strings, unless you want a world of pain.
 
Manually splitting strings and checking that the contents fit some pattern is fine as a prototype or a stopgap, but if the code is important enough that you're maintaining it X years down the line, then a more formal parser may be in order
 
3:31 PM
@Sam hey
 
Sam
Long time no speak
 
@Sam indeed
how are you?
 
well I only have little over a 1000 lines to maintain (which includes comments and blank lines) and once I'm done I never have to look at it again.
 
"It's worked perfectly for X years and I just want to get it working in the new environment without making any big structural changes" is a reasonable justification to keep doing split and letter-checking
"I never have to look at it again" is probably what the last guy said when he finished the Python 2 implementation :-)
Your apprentice will probably say the same thing when he ports it to Python 4. The wheel is ever turning.
 
does anyone know anything about "Locust" ? i'd really like to be able to run several different kinds of load tests
but i can only ever find instructions about running a single test through the web UI
where one can only alter the number of users spawned per second :l
 
Sam
3:48 PM
@AndyK busy busy. You
 
@WSLUser Here's a nice article about Unicode & encodings which you may find helpful kunststube.net/encoding Also see nedbatchelder.com/text/unipain/unipain.html
 
@PM2Ring there was another,that I thought was Jeff Knupp but I can't find it. It was an excellent article but it's just one of those things I can't commit to memory :/
 
@Kevin No, we've been promised that won't happen. It'll just be an incremental change, like 3.5 to 3.6. Some new stuff, but no big changes that break backwards compatibility. And any stuff that gets deprecated now gives deprecation warnings for at least 1 or 2 versions before being actually deprecated.
 
The changes don't need to be big or hard to fix. They just need to make this application fail.
 
@Sam I think I'm as busy as you are
 
3:56 PM
Nm, it was Joel
 
I assume that they're not going to maintain 100% backwards compatibility forever, since we determined this morning that some day "\q" is going to be a SyntaxError
They're not going to spring it on us, but no amount of earlier versions with gentle DeprecationWarnings will be noticed by the dev that wrote the application X years ago and has been letting it run unsupervised since
If you're saying "the transition from 3.9 to 4.0 specifically will not be particularly special, and may in fact contain no breaking changes whatsoever", I know. Instead of saying "Python 4" I should have explicitly said "whatever upcoming version of Python will have a relevant breaking change". But that doesn't roll off the tongue as well :-P
 
@roganjosh The basics of proper Unicode handling are pretty straightforward, if you stick to the sandwich principle. Fixing semi-functional Python 2 code that mixes Unicode text, encoded bytes, and "plain" ASCII strings (which are just byte strings) is where it gets complicated. The vast majority of Python 2 Unicode questions, including questions about porting code to Python 3, are in that category.
 
Is this why 3.X's pre-release nickname was "Python 3000"? Because they wanted it to signify a mythical far-off version that didn't necessarily come right after 2.9?
 
@Kevin But there's never been a good reason for \q in a plain string. That should be in a raw string. Saying "But it works on my machine" is no excuse.
 
(let us assume that at 3.X's earliest conception, it wasn't clear how many major releases of 2.X would occur before they could roll out 3.X.)
I don't mind "\q" getting the boot. I already habitually use raw strings for my regexes even if they contain no backslashes, so that protects me from 99% of common problem points
Windows path strings get the raw treatment as well.
 
4:08 PM
But I guess it's similar to the change of the / division operator. The docs have been explaining the proper way to do it for ages, and a relevant __future__ import has been available since at least 2.4 (or was it 2.2). And even without that import // has worked for floor division. But did people follow the docs advice? Largely, no they didn't. But they were quick to complain when Python 3 no longer accepted their shoddy code.
 
cbg
 
Ooh, maybe we'll finally stop getting questions like "How come my code, os.chdir("C:\documents\new_folder"), can't find the path?"
Or maybe we'll still get them and the stack trace will just change from DirectoryNotFound to SyntaxError: "\d"
 
Will y'all be there at PyCon Cleveland next month?
 
os.chdir("C:\new_folder") won't be a syntaxerror at all, alas.
Perhaps we can expect a reduction proportional to (number of valid single-letter escape sequences)/26
 
@Kevin Ah, \d the "code was entered by a dummy" escape sequence. ;)
 
4:13 PM
it's the "halt and catch fire" of the new generation
 
wim
what the basic usage of Counter dupe for If a dictionary value is a list, how to count item in that list? (6 answers already...)
wow even a 180k rep user jumping on the bandwagon
 
@wim Sorry, nothing in our canon collection, just a simple string one: sopython.com/canon/?q=counter But Aran-Fey may have one in his list he built for his dupe-hunting userscript.
 
I can't find anything, sadly :(
my attention is focused on resolving this annoying circular import issue... once again. For some reason I have a lot of those
 
well just for fun dict(zip(d, map(Counter, d.values())))
 
solved the problem by randomly shuffling around the order of my import statements... I'm sure this won't come back to bite me in the butt /s
 
4:26 PM
@wim I don't put much stock in that 180K based on a lot of answers
 
4:40 PM
@roganjosh Yeah, he goes for speed & quantity over quality. And he didn't get to 182k by assiduously avoiding answering dupes...
 
wim
Ah, it’s a guy. They enjoy repeating themselves.
 
@wim It's an occupational hazard in Java.
 
You can say that again
 
@AndrasDeak Pity we can't upvote deleted comments: stackoverflow.com/questions/55510485/… "This answer is wrong in like 4 different ways." Not bad for 5 lines of code. I particularly like x.strip('.0')
 
@wim meh, I'm afraid
 
Is the value of __qualname__ well-defined if you're not inside a function? More generally, is there a listing of all automatically-bound variables?
 
@wim It looks clear to me. But surely it's a dupe.
 
I'm trying to find out if the result of class Fred: print(__qualname__) is well-defined, or an implementation detail, or what
There's docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#special-attributes but I'm not confident that __qualname__ counts as an attribute in my code, since I don't have any dots.
 
wim
5:23 PM
@SamChats I'll be there
 
@wim But it was pathetic before the editors dragged it into shape. So how the yam did it hit HNQ in its raw state... If we can hammer it, it'll get kicked off the HNQ.
 
wim
still unclear to me
...what is the question actually asking?
 
@wim It's clear, but illogical. The OP wants to know why indexing from the right-hand end of a list, str, etc, do the indices run, -1, -2, -3, etc. Why isn't it zero-based. So the answers explain that +0 == -0
 
wim
oh, they think L[-0] should be the last item and L[-1] the second-last item, is that right?
 
I'll just go ahead and write this answer based on the polite fiction that __qualname__ does exactly what I expect it to do in all contexts and environments
 
wim
5:31 PM
the question body is just a code dump, and not sure how to divine that from the title
@Kevin read PEP 3155 maybe
__qualname__ was added for a very specific niche purpose (nested classes/functions)
 
@wim Exactly.
 
... Is there something I should be using instead to get the name of my non nested class? __name__ just returns __main__, which is useless.
 
wim
huh? it shouldn't be __main__
that's a module thing
it should be the plain old name of the class, as a string, unless you have some weird metaclass magic going on
 
wim
blocked sorry :(
 
5:34 PM
>>> class Fred:
...     print(__name__)
...
__main__
 
wim
the attribute is Fred.__name__
the __name__ is the module scope lookup
and the class __name__ doesn't really exist there yet because the class isn't defined
it's only gonna be bound and assigned to "Fred" once the interpreter has exited the class definition block
 
So how come __qualname__ doesn't have a module scope lookup?
>>> class Barney:
...     print(__qualname__)
...
Barney
 
wim
dunno! never noticed that before. you surprised me.
not sure whether on not that is implementation detail.
 
I can't find this behavior documented anywhere, so I'm leaning towards "implementation detail"
 
wim
doesn't work inside function body
 
5:37 PM
I thought __qualname__ was for callables
 
wim
how did you even find that?!
class Fred:
    print(locals())
 
def Barney():
    print(Barney.__qualname__)

Barney()
 
@wim I'm tempted to hammer it with this: stackoverflow.com/questions/509211/understanding-slice-notation That question is broader, but the answers certainly cover the new question.
 
classes are callable :>
 
and inside a class definition names are assumed to be attached to the class?
 
5:41 PM
Yeah. Names become class attributes when the block exits.
 
wim
@PM2Ring rightio
I don't understand how such garbage question as this can get to +50 but anything I ask lately gets downvoted on sight
what am I doing wrong?
 
Don't ask difficult questions
If it can't be answered in 5 minutes with a 1-liner, you've overstepped the mark
 
I notice that questions that get a lot of upvotes really quickly tend to be puzzle-like, with exactly the level of difficulty that the average reader can understand the structure of the code, but can't understand why it produces the output that it does.
Or they understand the code and what it does, but don't understand why the language was designed that way to begin with.
 
@wim Any objections to me hammering it? That's to the room in general, not just Wim.
 
One from this morning that isn't puzzle-like: stackoverflow.com/questions/55703022/shallow-copy-of-list Why did it get 6 upvotes??
 
5:52 PM
It is puzzle-like if you've got a really fuzzy understanding of Python's memory model
 
Mmm, stretching the definition, but ok :) I kinda feel it has a dupe but I'm not sure exactly what
 
wim
@roganjosh "This is quite different from the shallow copy I have understood before (I'm not going to explain what shallow copy I have understood before)"
downvote!
 
Well I had a go at answering because the OP is not responsible (presumably) for the disproportionate upvotes. But I don't understand what others were seeing in the question.
 
wim
they understood shallow copy to be...not a copy at all?
 
@wim I thought your question from last week about deducing assignment statement target shapes was a fun puzzle, but it was a couple pegs too high on the difficulty ladder for John Q Public to hold an interest in
 
wim
5:55 PM
@Kevin yeah, I was actually pleasantly surprised with the traceback hack
it suits the use-case I was thinking about (a slightly less dumb Mock)
 
@wim the answer is always HNQ
it's the bane of our existence
 
wim
but how they get there in the first place ... the bar is that low??
 
@PM2Ring I'll take the heat for this one. Done
 
The algorithm is dumb. It just has to get critical mass, and then it all breaks down
 
@wim Yeah, it has to be dumb enough that people read it, but interesting enough that php users and non-SO users see it in the HNQ and go "oh, this is very interesting behaviour, and I understand the answer, but I wouldn't have known what's going on before reading the answers"
 
wim
5:58 PM
oh, feck, it listed me as a dupe closer
but I voted "unclear".
 
it does that, yeah
 
wim
grrr.
 
I'm certain there's a feature-request against that too...
 
The other day I got ten upvotes on another SE site for asking a question that was effectively answered with a verbatim quote from the documentation. I think they just appreciated that I used complete sentences.
 
@coldspeed Thanks! And if you're feeling really brave, throw a delvote on this: stackoverflow.com/questions/55510485/…
 
6:00 PM
needs 5 more anyway
 
already did :>
 
@AndrasDeak There is, but I suspect we'll be waiting more than 6 to 8 weeks for that to be fixed.
 
yup
 
I'd hammered that before. There was... pushback
 
we'll go through at least three shades of green for rep notifications before that happens
 
6:02 PM
Glad to see it is finally closed again
 
@coldspeed I'm pretty sure that with the new HNQ algorithm hammering permanently throws a question off the HNQ.
 
I thought so too. But that question went back up after it was reopened. I think there is a grace period, the algorithm runs periodically and this was closed and reopened within that period
If it's closed long enough, then it should die, yes
 
Something is not right with that user's answers
Top 3 answers in less than a space of a month with a massively disproportionate high score
Possibly drumming up support on Reddit or something, but there's no way those are crippling issues facing our community
 
@Kevin u no use txt spk m8?
 
I basically never used txt speak, even back in the days of the Nokia brick. If I'm going to mentally compose even the simplest message for five minutes in my head, spending more than ten seconds actually spelling out the full words isn't much of a difference
 
6:13 PM
@roganjosh Perhaps, but we've seen spectacular rep earning by new members before. And I assume the mods notice when a newbie earns 2k in their first 3 weeks.
 
@PM2Ring I'll be watching that space :)
 
I've always been the same. When mates use to send text messages I generally had to phone them and confirm they just hadn't left their phone unlocked in their pocket and it happened to manage to send me a stream of seemingly random letters in a message... Use to defeat the purpose of sending a short one off message to convey information that probably didn't need a phone call :)
 
I have a sister who's a poet and song writer, and a competent composer of crossword puzzles. It pains me to get texts from her in txtspk.
 
@PM2 maybe it's just nice to not worry about proper constructs for a change then? :p
 
I am led to believe that txtspeak is phasing out among Today's Youth as predictive text input improves
Proper grammar is much easier today compared to the T9 days.
 
6:19 PM
I suppose so. And she is very adaptable, so she finds it easy to slip into the vernacular of any group she's interacting with. But still, the txtspk pains me. :) But I don't complain to her about it, I just reply in (hopefully) correct spelling.
 
Or, no, I'm thinking of the thing before T9 when you had to hit the number several times to cycle through 3-4 letters
 
@PM2 one of my favourite David Mitchell rants: youtube.com/watch?v=E4_Qp2BGrC4
 
multitap, that's it
 
@roganjosh The algorithm was tweaked slightly, in the last month or so, and diamond mods can now kick stuff off the HNQ without having to close it.
 
is anyone able to delete one of my posts? I have violated my schools code of conduct and need it deleted asap :/
 
6:25 PM
Users can delete their own posts. Or is that something you need a certain amount of rep to do?
 
unfortunately I receive an error when attempting to delete
You cannot delete this question as others have invested time and effort into answering it. For more information, visit the help center.
 
haha
 
@JonClements Nice one.
 
You can't delete posts if there is an upvoted answer
 
I know the site is legally obligated to disassociate your posts from if you formally request it, but I forget if that's possible to do while still keeping the rest of your questions and profile intact
 
6:27 PM
@Luke ummm... why not just ask for that post to be disassociated from your account via the contact form? You can do that... Deleting your account won't help here... sure - it'll anonymise the post - but then you won't have any further say at all in its content
 
@JonClements I have reached out to them regarding this!
in theory, could someone downvote a comment on the post so I can delete it?
 
If you have violated the code of conduct; is there a reason you're just seeing it now? If you have been caught then it's almost certainly better to leave it and just accept the issue
 
I caught myself basically
 
@Luke I see where this is going, and let's not
 
@Luke This one? A mod can delete the old revisions of the question. Would that be good enough?
 
6:29 PM
I've already screencapped the post to my teacher
they said to remove the post which is what I'm attempting to do now
@PM2Ring I think so?
 
Dang, ratting oneself out to the authorities... That's some powerful Lawful Good energy right there
Most users would just whistle nonchalantly and say "that was probably written by the other Luke that goes to my school and attends the same class"
 
Don't feel obliged to answer, you don't have to, I'm merely curious: is the issue that you posted code from the exercise or the fact that you asked for help with the problem? Hard to tell from the history.
 
@AndrasDeak the fact that I asked for help with the problem
 
Dupes would make cheaters easier to find. Just sayin'.
 
we're allowed to use lab partners for help with code but I just recently found out that forums like stack are not allowed and considered cheating
 
6:33 PM
@Luke I see. Too bad, asking for help should be fine if you're not trying to have your code written. But I understand that one can't specify "It's OK to ask for help as long as you Do It Right".
 
@Luke okay - it's best to allow 2/3 days for the staff to handle your contact request then... If you're being honest with your teacher - you'll have to say to them you've done what you can but it can't be done immediately and without review because there's other licences and concerns in place once you've posted things (and SO is a large platform with a lot of things needing doing/addressing)
@Luke it'd also be best if you cancelled your account deletion otherwise, if that goes through without a response - then they won't be an account to respond to and your ticket will get cancelled - you'll then be in either more of a pickle as they'd be no way to get your account back or get back ownership of the post etc...
 
@Luke If you want docs supporting what Jon just said, link them to stackoverflow.com/legal
 
On top of that, I'd suggest that your Flask question shows a lot more capability than what you actually asked, so I think you have pretty decent wiggle room with your lecturer here
 
just canceled my account deletion
 
6:38 PM
Before you start going against SO to sort this out, do you think the lecturer might meet you part-way?
 
I legitimately think they may fail me
 
I'm looking at the sanctioning metrics at academicintegrity.ucsd.edu/process/consequences/…... I bet you could haggle them down to a written warning if it's your first year.
 
Well - you're being honest with 'em... if you didn't realise certain things - meh... I don't see it being that catastrophic... it's not like you tried to hide it or deceive people. I notice another mod has locked that question now until something can get resolved... I'm afraid you're just going to have to be patient.
 
One time I got a zero on an essay because I missed an MLA citation... That was a fun semester
 
@Luke based on what? I'm fantastic at catatophising but does the discussion really look that way?
 
6:41 PM
@roganjosh the prof. has a no tolerance policy for cheating and such, and I mistakingly glossed over the syllabus where it detailed the policy
 
Wasn't what I was asking. It's easy to find bits of text that will detail these things, I'm asking whether their response suggested anything
You've owned up to it. Just go speak to them tomorrow and I'm pretty sure it will be put to bed. Eat a 0 mark if it comes to that. Just don't stress - you haven't been dishonest
 
@roganjosh OH! my apologies, the email I got was very succinct. They just asked me to delete the post and that we'd talk in class on Thursday
 
Secretly the teacher is cool and laid back and on Thursday he'll tell you "actually I don't particularly care, I just wrote really strict terms in the syllabus because disciplinary hearings are a real bore and putting on a mean face reduces the likelihood that I have to attend one"
 
@Luke well, Jon is a moderator and has given you a response that it's not quite so easy to do as the lecturer suggests, so you can take that info back. The rest is said by Kevin above. I doubt they really care so much, especially since it was a trivial question and doesn't account for much
 
Then you'll go get a beer together. It'll be a real Finding Forrester situation.
 
6:49 PM
@Luke The fact that you brought it to the prof's attention is a big factor in your favour.
 
I really appreciate all of this everyone
thank you!
 
good luck
 

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