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7:02 PM
OMG, there is KevinScript for real!
 
Yes there is. Praise be upon it.
 
For sure!!
 
@ksalf oh ye of little faith!?
 
@roganjosh: I asked about that fat causing/not causing an explosion here chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/112821/…, no answer yet
 
7:06 PM
My god... what have I done?
As I said before, it wouldn't explode
 
@JonClements: Full faith in you, Sir!!
They put the question on hold as it is opinion based...nobody is sue what will happen
 
Though @AndrasDeak did mention a blast and I'm not sure what reaction he foresaw
 
@ksalf not in me... in KevinScript! Can't believe you took that rather surreal discussion and turned it into an actual question on an SE site... :p
 
I was asked if I have any tunnel in the vicinity...to carry out the experiment on my own
 
Please don't light pigs
 
7:09 PM
No sir, shall never do it to any living being
@JonClements: Well, I had to as the room was divided over actual outcome, so I just went there
:P
 
It will not explode. There is no volatile fat that wouldn't be burned off instantly
 
@roganjosh being in a confined space with a bunch of cute piggies sounds like a blast to me
 
I will eat my hat if you can somehow make an explosive atmosphere from pigs
 
@roganjosh now you're just making it sound like a challenge and it needs to be done :p
 
@roganjosh solid-state rocket fuel?
 
7:12 PM
Sure, get Myth Busters on it :)
 
Mythbusters tried salami...
 
If it explodes,I wonder over what charges shall the authorities book me...
 
@AndrasDeak the sordid side of NASA they don't want you to see?
 
@ksalf What roganjosh said. It won't explode, under normal pressure. But if you can create high pressure via heating the air in an enclosed space, then it might be possible.
 
In before vegan space programs
 
7:13 PM
@ksalf they might just throw you in a room with a bunch of PETA members "to have a chat with you"?
 
PETA doesn't have time between abducting pets to kill them and spreading FUD on twitter
 
@JonClements: I would rather except that it will not explode and won't go for any expt...:P
@PM2Ring: Exactly...like a grenade
small charge under high pressure, boom it goes!
What roganjosh is repeating should be considered too - Fat is not that volatile
 
@ksalf I'm not sure if your enthusiasm about this is "cute" or whether I should be really concerned :p
 
Let people enjoy their kinks but try not to look directly at it
 
7:17 PM
@JonClements: Why concerned sir :P.
Am just curious, nothing else
 
walking the thin line between scientist and sociopath
 
My friend and I used to have a game for curious onlookers that tried to listen to our conversations as we walked by. We'd say absurd things to baffle them. You're making a discussion out of prime material for passing comments
 
@AndrasDeak: If they could do blast like that in those times, Sir Alfred Nobel wouldn't have discovered the power of dynamite
 
*Nobel :)
 
lol
 
7:21 PM
oh yes, that was a typo,thank you
 
The largest innovation of dynamite was its stability. You can blow things up without accidentally blowing yourself or other things up. Pigs are different; they are quite volatile. They eat everything, poop on everything, and walk all over the place rather than staying in one pile...
imagine having to coerce 500 kilos of live material to press together in one place for your explosion...
 
And, crucially, don't normally exude an explosive atmosphere
 
@AndrasDeak: You are right there...
 
Even if they burp and fart a lot, it's probably not going to explode
 
[citation needed]
 
7:23 PM
My granddad had an old multi-fuel tractor, built during WWII, when fuel was heavily rationed. I think he usually ran it on normal petrol (gasoline), or maybe it used a heavier two-stroke fuel, as was very commonly used in lawn mowers back then. But it could also run on kerosene (aka paraffin) which is basically a light grade of diesel. But you had to start it on petrol, and once the engine was hot, you could switch over to kero.
However, it also had a "hot box", which could be filled with pig fat. Once again, the engine had to be hot for the hot box fuel to even flow. He didn't use the hot box: he said it was a pain to clean, and it stank. But they were very useful in the war & post-war years.
 
Ah, English strikes again. What we call paraffin is probably "petroleum jelly". Same thing as "benzene"...what that word sonds like means gasoline in Hungarian
 
What is pig fat? You'd presumably have to melt it down and keep everything hot?
 
@AndrasDeak oh gawd... I now have an image of someone spawning a load of pigs in Minecraft and fencing them in with some TNT... (although... shouldn't give @ksalf ideas... but at least it might be satisfying and not IRL :p)
 
Using TNT is cheating.
 
@PM2Ring collect the drippings, melt them down and feed them in?
 
7:27 PM
"Paraffin" has multiple meanings, even in English, depending on locale. I was trying to make the info intelligible to multiple dialects, which is rather tricky. ;)
 
@PM2Ring: People in those days were amazing, did everything they could without any fear
 
@roganjosh huh?
 
@JonClements I never played...but did they have pigs in The Sims...?
 
Ah, yeah, probably had to be melted, but that happens near room temp I think.
 
@AndrasDeak the fats are not liquid at room temp. Do you think they were wrung out?
 
7:28 PM
Older eras tend to sound more interesting than they really were because all of the boring stories failed to survive to the modern day
 
Lard isn't very solid, and an engine probably gets warm enough soon enough
 
For every pig-powered tractor there were 99 yawn-inducing ones
 
At this rate we're going to have to add a new tag for the room of or something :p
 
and <clicks fingers> gone like <that>
 
@roganjosh Basically. You could clean it up a bit first, by boiling it with water, to reduce the acid content, and a little of the smell.
 
7:29 PM
@JonClements: You have my support
 
@AndrasDeak I'm familiar with both terms, but distinguished by the addition 'wax' - so 'paraffin' for the liquids and the semi-solid referred to as 'paraffin wax.'
 
@toonarmycaptain that would make sense
 
@ksalf strangely - I don't think the RO's would be happy with that :)
 
I support it only if it replaces
 
My coworker has come to the conclusion that a project we inherited was originally developed using WordPad. I am inclined to agree with that. The code is just terrible on many levels.
 
7:31 PM
@JonClements: Just remove the word pig, 'fat-explosion' is nice
 
@Code-Apprentice of indentation?
 
@JonClements I'll sponsor that tag
 
@AndrasDeak An example of the many reasons I maintain that American English is a completely separate languish, and Australian English is a separate dialect.
 
Pig-fat-explosions are not a thing.
 
@ksalf ahh yes... s'pose one could even then pretend it's something to do with a file system that's gone horribly wrong...
 
7:31 PM
@AndrasDeak yes, that's the primary reason for this conclusion
@roganjosh we can remedy that
 
@roganjosh: haha, sir, you won't accept it without an expt :P
 
That reminds me of something I read earlier today:
> Microsoft's "open standard" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardization_of_Office_Open_XML) document format, OOXML, famously
contains tags like "autoSpaceLikeWord95" and
"useWord97LineBreakRules". If you want to correctly interpret a Word
document, you have to know what these mean. (Unfortunately, the
standard doesn't say.)
 
No, we can't. But I can't resist the topic :P
 
@JonClements: Exactly, lol :P
@roganjosh: I'll move that question to volcanology, earth science, may be they could suggest something
 
I think it's probably died its death where it is
 
7:34 PM
No, I will resurrect it, probably
 
@roganjosh I disagree. All you need is a 100% Oxygen atmosphere.
 
@toonarmycaptain I ordered 3 just yesterday. Maybe you're right
 
three atmospheres sound like a lot
 
You can never have enough, right?
1 working, one spare and one in the store room. This is standard procedure
Not spare, backup
we need redundancy if the first one fails
 
:P
 
7:39 PM
@roganjosh I agree that it would be difficult with whole pigs. But once you had enough separated fat, and high enough pressure, although maybe you also need to spray the fat somehow. Or cheat, and use chlorine trifluoride as your oxidizing agent.
That stuff burns water. It even burns sand.
 
you could as well just use bricks as fuel if you use CF3 as an oxidizer
 
Gunpowder becomes explosive only under high pressure
 
Or just about anything
 
Supporting @PM2Ring
 
@ksalf I'm not sure this is true
 
7:41 PM
there are multiple kinds of gunpowder I think
I remember seeing a video of a guy accidentally setting a jar of gunpowder on fire, and comments said he was lucky it wasn't the other kind
 
@roganjosh : Since you are a much more learned/experienced person than me, i won;t go against you
But pressure...high pressure
 
Another option is the aptly-named FOOF:
Mar 12 at 15:23, by amcgregor
@AndrasDeak There's much scarier stuff out there. FOOF (dioxygen diflouride), for example. "Reactions so violent that no ignition delay could be measured." "A better oxidizer than oxygen, putting it in rare territory… it'll react with ceramic tile, wet sand, asbestos, and test engineers…"
 
yeah, I remember
 
@ksalf May I suggest "could plausibly" rather than asking for a definitive yes/no. Without concrete information pertaining to the scenario you're asking about, noone will be able to give you a definitive answer. However...given xyz situation, is it plausible that the combustion in such a confined space of the pigs and substances in the surrounding environment could have the effect you described.
 
should also contain some phosphorus, and be called POOF
 
7:43 PM
I'm researching it. Certainly you're right in triggering the reaction, I wonder whether it requires the compression from the first explosion
 
@toonarmycaptain: Suggestion accepted, Sir. But I dare not go there in chemistry room, they want me to conduct that expt, lol...
 
"Sand won't save you this time" - I'm sure Things I Won't Work With has a number of injuries to answer for. I know if I ever get my hands on substances thus described, there will be experiments performed. Possibly on my smoldering corpse. ;)
 
@toonarmycaptain: Feel free to edit the question, if you want. If I ask somewhere else, I will follow your advice
 
@ksalf They're scientists, you asked for a definitive answer, scientists generally point out that there are few definitive answers that are also succinct.
 
You are right.
 
7:48 PM
I don't think the pressure of a cocked gun helps here
The burning of gunpowder is sub-sonic. I think it can probably work fine without pressure
 
@ksalf the comments you were responding to under your chemistry question ar now gone, you can probably delete your own comments now.
 
@AndrasDeak: Yes, they are gone, shall delete mine as well,thanks
Deleted :P
 
@AndrasDeak Trust Microsoft to make an open standard that's not exactly open, and not particularly standard. But it's a vast improvement over the bad old days when the .doc format was a closed proprietary format, and they'd get very upset if people tried to reverse-engineer it.
They'd update the format every couple of years, and Word couldn't read versions that were more than a generation or 2 old. So companies basically had no option but to keep upgrading their systems if they didn't want to be stuck in the situation where they were unable to read their own data
 
docx is supposed to be open yet both libreoffice and openoffice struggle with even basic formatting parity
something tells me it's not "our" fault
 
Have they, or do they intend to, do the same with Excel?
 
7:56 PM
Sometimes my Dad would receive Word attachments in emails that his old XP system couldn't read. At all. My slightly newer Linux system could at least read them, even if the formatting was sometimes a bit wonky.
 
That would surely be a mega loss on the market
Microsoft will lose its grip on productivity, the same way its OS moves to tablets etc. And that's probably not a loss in revenue since everyone is, for the cliche, "glued to their phone"
 
I suspect that a lot of the underlying machinery of Excel that doesn't really relate to visual sugars is pretty solid, since I haven't heard of similar issues with it. One can screw around with visuals a lot but if one screwed around with Excels internals much you'd end of with numerical/formulaic errors that would be a business disaster.
 
@roganjosh I'm pretty sure Excel has used an XML format for a while. But like the Word .docx, the specs aren't designed to be useful to devs who haven't signed a NDA and have access to certain useful information.
 
yeah, it should all be the same thing, docx, xlsx, pptx
> Open format? Yes
 
It can't be because of macros
Unless there's something I don't know about macros
 
8:01 PM
excels afaik are basically compressed xmls in some form
 
Probably compressed with zip. IIRC, that's what .docx uses, but it's been a while since I tried messing around with those things.
 
@ParitoshSingh do you know off-hand how that format copes with macros?
 
i dont know how it stores it, but macros are essentially saved vba codes
theres a lot of bytestreams involved with correct initial "headers" to indicate what the contents are for most microsoft formats
 
Really interesting, I didn't know any of this
It surely spells death for Excel
 
the headers have been sorta collated into MAPI that allows you to interface with the formats using dispatch jobs
but you can also extract and read the bytestreams directly
oh, nah, its been around for a while really
its just a mess to navigate regardless.
 
8:06 PM
Only takes someone to make sense of it
 
i didnt work with excels a whole lot, but had to do a lot of messing with .msg files and attachments when working on one of my projects
oh yeah, theres some decent lists out there. microsoft themselves sorta support it and have some documentation. i wasnt able to understand a lot of it at the time though
 
@roganjosh why?
 
@AndrasDeak because open-source is better, functionally, and now it looks like there's a reasonably-interchangeable format
Excel runs crap loads of stuff. The Linux equivalents don't work for me, they don't load enough rows
 
The point is that this "open" format is not self-contained. You need to know Excel to make sense of the "open" format. So it's open only in name.
And people will still use the proprietary crap, because they also do it with windows. All those people using adobe and creating non-portable pdfs with it: same thing.
 
^ and honestly, excel is a very polished tool, and as with things that work, it doesnt make sense for people to switch off of it.
 
8:12 PM
The loosening of Excel format only suggests to me more that MS is going down a consumer route and not a productive route
We'll see with the next Windows release
 
to put things into context though, this so called "opening/loosening" happened back in 2006-2007
 
And became reality in Windows 10
 
8:31 PM
@roganjosh What do you mean? 2006-2007 was the timeframe that Vista was released.
 
@PM2Ring I predict that that the next Windows offering will be totally unusable by programmers
 
wim
welp, I really got nerd-sniped there.
compiler_enter_scope looks very CPython-implementation-detail-ish to me.
 
Well, programmers beyond idiotic apps
 
wim
also, found a fun thing, you can write it in that temp scope (set to empty string, for example), but if you delete it, then CPython will fallback to setting the class name
>>> class A:
...     class B:
...         del __qualname__
...
>>> A.B.__qualname__
'B'
kind of a cool hack, can think of approximately zero use-cases.
maybe you used a nested class but wanted to hide your shame about it :)
 
hello everyone, i am having trouble phrasing a question to search on SO/Google
not looking for an answer so much as the right way to describe what im looking for
i have a dataframe which contains a column which is a json object, im looking to see if there is a way to query the dataframe given a specific condition within the json value, for instance where "key"=true
when i search for this i get lots of people talking about converting json to dataframes and so on but not just querying a dataframe which has a json structure for a col type
 
8:48 PM
Oh man, twice today. I need to run to the shop before it closes
 
"json object" == "json-formatted string" or "dict"?
 
in this case, a json-formatted string
json.loads is required to treat as an actual json obj
 
people_using_the_word_JSON_correctly += 1
I don't know pandas, but since you're trying to query attributes of that object, shouldn't you store the actual object (not a string) instead?
 
im not in control of the data structure this dataframe is coming from, unfortunately
 
then you'd have to, during your check, call a json loads on it.
 
8:51 PM
its being pulled from an athena query on aws. athena is pretty nice you can do something to the effect of select * from table where json['thing'] = 'value'
 
once you recognize that, the idea can be abstracted.
"do some work" "check condition" "operate on true values".
 
Even with filtering in the query, I'm not sure you get back a df with JSON stuffed in a column
 
The reason you may struggle to come up with a good search query is because theres 2 or 3 steps involved. but break it down, and you can get a good idea of what to search. its a mix of a function, only returning values based on condition (with gives boolean indexing). Alternatively, modify the string to a more managable datatype, such as actually making a list with all jsons converted into dicts, and then working off of that
 
hmm
 
If i had to search on how to do something like this, i'd ask 1 question at a time
 
8:55 PM
What does the DB query return?
 
i could create a new dataframe which explodes this json basically
and then do a normal query, that could work
 
would need to just iterate through the entire dataframe which isnt the end of the world, might be slow though but w/e
 
not what I asked
 
the query doesnt return anything right now, because im not sure how to write said query with the current dataframe im working with
 
8:56 PM
Not worth jumping ahead just yet :)
 
yea, was hoping for an easier solution, but this will work
 
your "current dataframe". how did you get it?
 
thanks for helping me through it
athena query, specifically using the "pythena" library
 
The query must return something, or you'll have an empty df
 
maybe im not understanding what you mean
 
8:57 PM
so, the return/response of that athena query got you to your "current dataframe".
 
i have an established df from this pythena lib which basically converts a query result from athena to a dataframe
 
We're trying to rewind a bit in the process
 
correct
 
roganjosh is asking what exactly that query returned
was it actually directly a pandas object? or something else
 
its technically a tuple
but the 0 index of which is a dataframe
 
8:59 PM
ok cool, sounds like thats just pandas under the wraps in the library somewhere then
 
yea, i looked at the source code for this pythena lib
 
I'm learning some fancy numpy today
 
i had actually written an equivalent myself, but i had gotten stuck on taking the file and converting it to a dataframe
i ended up using this lib, but the execution was 99% what i had done, just using the correct function from the IO lib to convert the file
 
print(some_object[0].head()) what do we have?
 
bunch of cols and values
readable dataframe, cant share here because it is sensitive data
 
9:01 PM
@Code-Apprentice how fancy? :)
 
Think I'm done for a bit, gonna go kill some elves as Mordor
 
frankly, numpy blew my mind with a simple some_array + 57
looks like magic.
 
meh, fortran 90 could do that ;)
 
wait, mordor is a place, no? D:
 
Also a playable army in Battle for Middle Earth 2
 
9:04 PM
aah
that;s weird, but i cant judge
 
Mordor gets no cavalry, but you can have 3 black riders and 3 fellbeasts, plus the Whitchking
 
I heard no man can kill him
 
a witchking to boot? sounds not fairplay.
 
Don't remind me of the silly scene @AndrasDeak :/
@ParitoshSingh older games are the best. Magic Carpet - have a go at that if you haven't played :P
Weird controls, it takes quite a bit of practice
 
haha. hey, i just might. might be a game that my system can run.
it clearly cannot run anything from the last 6 years or so
 
9:09 PM
@roganjosh oh I remember that... didn't have a system capable of running it properly until I got a pentium :p
 
You'll need DoSBox if you're on Windows
 
(okay maybe thats a bit harsh. last 3 years is probably more accurate)
 
@JonClements A Pentium??!
 
Yeah... a 486sx-25 wasn't quite up to it :)
 
The hardest part about dosbox is working out the framerate it's supposed to work at
Otherwise the age-old games get accelerated to stupid speeds
 
9:12 PM
Yeah... I've had issues with some over enthuastic spectrum emulators somehow not deliberately slow things down... hit the left button briefly and you've run 3 screens to the left straight into something and immediate die kind of thing...
 
I think it's ctrl + F11 to slow it down
 
anyway... feel a bit sleepy so going to retire for the night... rbrb folks
 
rbrb, and I'm done too
 
night
 
gnite
 
9:47 PM
@AndrasDeak first it was replacing some values in the array, then it was deleting columns from an array
 
the latter sounds fishy
 
the fishiness is out of necessity
...or maybe I just don't know what I"m doing
this code base was originally written to read data from a CSV file without any numpy...then a need for numpy arose and was added on top of that
 
Is the column dropping mearly a way to cherry-pick columns from the csv?
 
If you're using np.loadtxt it has a handy usecols keyword argument for this very purpose
 
9:53 PM
nope, I'm not using loadtxt()
 
Genfromtxt, or manual parsing?
 
but I'll look into that
using csv.reader().
 
OK, that counts as manual, from the numpy point of view :)
 
yah, I figured
hmm....I like that solution, though. I will look at loadtxt now
 
it only works if your format is simple enough, but I prefer it
 
9:55 PM
can it read directly from a binary buffer, say from a HTTP request?
 
I don't think so, but I never do that
How does "binary buffer" play together with "csv"?
I'd imagine that the former would have to be decoded anyway to give you the latter, right?
 
yah, I originally had to decoded the binary data as utf-8
 
there's also fromstring and frombuffer but those are typically for 1d data...
 
10:20 PM
cool, tnx
 
10:34 PM
hmm....this isn't gonna work ;-(
I need to read the entire csv file and the array is only a subset of it
 
10:49 PM
I see
As for deleting columns, I think that's possible with numpy.delete but I never got the hang of that. Always much simpler to just grab the parts you need from an array.
 
11:26 PM
Anyone explain this?
Hmm, it works from IDLE
 
try python_of_your_choice -m pip install
 
One moment
 
more often than not this is caused by a discrepancy between pip and python
 
I litteraly copied that into the terminal :(
lol
 
And what happened?
 
11:33 PM
'python_of_your_choice' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
 
ugh
# you had
pip install requests # or whatever
# insted you should have something like
python3.7 -m pip install requests # or whatever
to ensure that you're running the pip with the same python that you're later using to execute the script
 
No, I understood, it was just not thinking
 
OK :P
 
Thanks, worked (it was installing it for 3.8)
 
glad to hear that
@AndrasDeak s/insted/instead/...
rhubarb
 

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