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12:06 AM
And it has already been proposed to replace std::sort in both libc++ and libstdc++.
 
unguarded_insertion_sort() function is almost the same as insertion_sort()
I understand that this has been done for perfomance reasons. Looks like it's not possible here to eliminate code duplication and save perfomance?
 
evenin'
 
@SashaMN Not my algorithm. IIRC that specific bit has been borrowed from std::sort's implementation in libc++.
 
@ThePhD Score! excellent job!
 
> Robotic Tape Library
this probably sounds a lot cooler than it is...
 
12:20 AM
@jaggedSpire How is your floof today?
 
@Borgleader :D
@Morwenn My IRL floof has gone down since I got a trim on Saturday. I have yet to check my floof fields for fresh floof today.
 
:(
 
reason number #98715 to avoid rsa: Actors from 'csi cyber' are keynoting there. ACTORS. ARE KEYNOTING A SECURITY CONFERENCE.
 
@Borgleader maybe they can whip up a VB GUI live on stage :^)
 
since when keynote is a verb
 
Ell
12:26 AM
I wonder what the best way to implement "keep me logged in" clientside is
 
Web 1.0 - People buy products Web 2.0 - People are products Web 3.0 - Products talk to each other, ignore People
 
Ell
with just a username + password
 
There's some point there
 
Ell
I guess it can't work really
 
@Ell auth token
 
12:27 AM
push button receive token
 
@melak47 I think you mean a gooey interface shudders
 
Ell
well, the server (currently) only accepts username + password
 
Ell
And the auth token should be generated by the server, right?
 
12:28 AM
@Ell Of course not, the server offers challenge, client forges response using password. Once the server accepts the response it sends back a proof of auth that can be kept.
This is why cookies are sensitive info
 
ell, y u no openid connect
 
Ell
@Shoe I will eventually
 
If you can copy a cookie, you can impersonate (therefore auth tokens / cookies in general should be tied to domain and client ip etc.; non tamperable)
 
@Ell What are you writing it with again? Python?
 
Ell
12:30 AM
@Shoe javascript client & erlang server (ejabberd)
 
nice
 
And it's also why you do sensitive logons in incognito browsers and never check "remember this logon"
 
Maybe use an authentication framework or sth, this is just too easy to screw up
 
Yeah
Don't implement auth on your own
 
auth frameworks aren't immune to that
THINK about it. Toy with it. Then throw it away and use the experience to properly use existing auth
 
12:31 AM
@Borgleader lol
 
Ell
I'm not sure if OpenID Connect is the way to go
 
user406009
@Shoe Auth actually isn't that complicated to do correctly.
 
@Ell It's not
 
Ell
cat says he prefers just username + password I think
 
user406009
Most of the hard work, HMAC, SHA, is already done.
 
Ell
12:32 AM
and generally I trust cat on this kind of thin
 
@Borgleader that's no hat. It's a helmet, for armor against the masses of VLQ questions
 
@Ell How so?
 
@Lalaland conceptually. However, in a real browser with broken protocols, stupid extension privileges and a zillion other subtle attack vectors, it's not
@Lalaland easy to get wrong. For example, you said "SHA". It doesn't come into the equasion, logically (unless you're suddenly grabbing an implementation detail somewhere)
 
Ell
@Shoe not sure, I think people might prefer username & password
 
By people you mean "Cat"?
 
Ell
12:35 AM
yeah :P
I guess his opinion is weighty in my eyes
 
Yeah, we see that
 
I too, use a password manager instead of that stuff
 
I too, but if I can I try to avoid yet another username+password
 
@jaggedSpire 2 floof, 1 derp /cc @TonyTheLion @Morwenn @ThePhD
 
snack overflow provides both passwords and third-party auth
hth
 
12:37 AM
It provides passwords?
 
it does
 
Since ever?
 
You can login directly to stsck overflow
 
I don't recall it being an option
 
user406009
@sehe You use SHA for the HMAC algorithm to form your tokens. You are correct. I forgot to mention bcrypt for the actual password hasing itself.
 
Ell
12:38 AM
allowing multiple authentication methods adds a little complexity also WRT linking the accounts together
 
@Borgleader Cute overload *-*
 
@Lalaland erm. If HMAC is done, why use SHA separately. And, yes, use a password hash indeed
 
@Borgleader :D
 
@Ell that's when you use a framework
@Borgleader I've never seen a flee that big before
 
user406009
@sehe HMAC requires a hash implementation in order to work.
 
12:41 AM
I guess if you use a general purpose library you'd have to choose. I thought the whole point was to go with good standards
 
> The so-called HBM2 modules can power through data at the rate of 256GBps (with a capital "B"), making them a whopping seven times faster than the best DDR5 chips on the market.
/cc @ElimGarak
 
> DDR5
oh, the graphic kind
 
Yeah, GDDR5 was (and is) based on DDR3.
 
@Borgleader I want to see that kind of bandwidth in CPUs.
 
Ell
is there any reason HBM2 won't come to CPUs?
 
12:45 AM
@Mysticial When we get light thingy cpus maybe :)
 
High bandwidth is cool, but 4 GB is not enough. 8 GB should be the norm for 2016, for consumer cards.
 
I want a terabyte of ram with that bandwidth. :)
I'm less familiar with memory technology so I'm not sure if bandwidth scaling is as simple as adding more channels.
Or bus width.
 
It's basically increasing bus width by layering them on top of each other. This is suitable for GPUs as memory there is not modular, sticked right onto the PCB. With usual GDDR5 interfaced SGRAM blocks, they usually surround the GPU in siege mode. There are lines feeding directly into the GPU, 32 per each block you introduce for arbitrary bus width (provisionally) at the cost of space.
 
Right now, the vast majority of apps that use a lot of memory are bound by bandwidth. And it's no secret. So either it's actually difficult to make ram faster, or the market for it isn't large enough for the right people to give a shit.
I suspect the latter. But I say that with little expertise on the process of memory design and manufacturing.
 
Did anyone say GPU
 
12:52 AM
Nah, I said "I love you"
 
The higher the bandwidth, the better. Getting data fast, and lots of it, is crucial for many of our GI processing ideas. But space is going to be tight, it seems. Back to 4 GB.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Is there actually that much consumer demand for GI though?
 
@ElimGarak HBM2 can go over 4GB of memory though
 
@Borgleader Can, but they're aiming to "ration" it out towards workstations first. :(
In terms of prices and stuff.
 
@ElimGarak fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk :(
 
Ell
12:54 AM
hmm ejabberd comes with a module that enables it to act as an OAuth2 server
that should do I think
 
@Lalaland Consumers don't really give a shit if it looks good enough. But once they get a taste of real reflections instead of fake specular probes in reflecting surfaces, they're going to care a lot. :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz You tried Elixir right? What have you written with it? What do you think about it?
 
Rendering a modern city (common in gaems), with all that glass in the buildings, when people see actual proper GI, they will not want to go back. :D
 
@ElimGarak Lets hope next gen consoles have a lot of RAM on their cards, itll trickle in to PCs after
 
@Ell I think you want an OAuth "Client"
 
Ell
12:55 AM
@Shoe yeah me too :S
 
@ElimGarak I don't mind that except for the fact that they'll charge you both arms, both legs, and your dick if you have one.
 
Server should be about providing your own OAuth tokens and stuff
 
Ell
well
I'm kinda confused
I learned this stuff a while ago but it's all left my brain
the webclient will act as a client to both ejabberd and for example, google
 
I'm not sure about this. Just check it's an OAuth2 server that you want
 
Ell
webclient is oauth client, xmpp is oauth server, and google is oauth provider. Or something along those lines? I'll have to read up more carefully on it
 
12:57 AM
On the OAuth website there are OAuth client and OAuth server libraries, which are separated.
 
Ell
but then also, oauth is actually for authorization, not authentication
 
I can teach you how to do OAuth with GPU
 
Ell
but you could use it for authentication just by making the protected resource some identity
 
That's what OpenID Connect does
 
Ell
yah
 
1:00 AM
"Oh, authentification", short for omg, auth... :P
 
Ell
@ElimGarak it's awfully ambiguous isn't it? :P
 
Seriously, nothing annoys me more than logging in. Sometimes, I straight up give up on content when it asks me to login.
Fucking YouTube, I am over 18, I'm not logging in.
 
Ell
I think in this case, ejabberd acts as both the resource server & the authorization server
 
Today in Elim Watches Porn
 
Ell
lol
 
1:02 AM
Elim watching trailers :(
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Of Game of Thrones perhaps?
 
Ell
trailers for porn?
 
user406009
Especially the nude scenes?
 
@Lalaland Also, games. Idiotic publishers match the game ESRB/PEGI rating and self-inflict it.
 
Ell
hmm no that doesn't make sense. I'm confused still
 
1:03 AM
Just ask me if I'm 18, you're not verifying anything by making me login.
 
Ell
@Shoe docs.ejabberd.im/admin/guide/oauth if you fancy reading how it works in ejabberd
 
@Ell What do you mean?
 
user406009
@AngryLettuce That would actually be reasonably impressive.
 
You probably want to read how it works, no?
 
user406009
Especially considering the GPU doesn't have any IO network access.
 
1:04 AM
Another common enough use of NULL is to write code like this:

if (unknownError)
  throw NULL;
what the fuck
enough internet for today
 
@AngryLettuce lol
 
Ell
@Shoe I mean, if you want to explain to me what role ejabberd is :P
 
I've just been thinking about communication technology standards. And I am again coming to the conclusion that the first contact, should it happen in deep space, between two starships... It's going to be messy.
 
@Ell I have no idea, sorry
 
user406009
@AngryLettuce The author admits it is a contrived example.
 
user406009
1:06 AM
It's just an example of type ambiguity of null.
 
They're either going to stare at each other or every action either side makes will look hostile to the other side.
 
@Ell 1) I don't know erlang 2) I don't know oauth 3) I don't know what you are trying to do
 
Ell
@Shoe kk np
 
user406009
@ElimGarak First contact in general would be somewhat strange.
 
Ell
thanks anyway
 
user406009
1:06 AM
Like, how would you even start?
 
user406009
How do you express thoughts and ideas to someone without any shared cultural/technical base?
 
Fart in their general direction
 
It would be hard enough in person, let alone two ships with no way of communicating.
Somebody is going to get nervous and fuck up. INTERSTELLAR WAR
 
user406009
So much of our tech is human centric.
 
user406009
Our audio and video recording are explicitly speced to human senses.
 
1:08 AM
@AngryLettuce wtf are you supposed to do with that? catch(int)?
 
Thinking about it, this would make an amazing balls video game.
 
> common enough use of NULL
 
user406009
@melak47 It's just an example of the type ambiguity of NULL.
 
user406009
It doesn't have any real meaning.
 
user406009
1:09 AM
> To my mind it is suspicious to generate an exception passing the pointer. Nevertheless sometimes people do so. Apparently the developer needed to write the code in this way. However, discussions whether it is a good or bad practice to do so go beyond the scope of this note.
 
user406009
@AngryLettuce Learn to humor.
 
says lalaland
 
throw "Well, fuck. There goes that.";
 
throw this;
 
Hi, I have a C++ question on vector of vectors.
 
1:11 AM
It is the right place to ask
 
@SyncMaster uh oh.
 
vector< vector<int> > vecOfVecs(3);
vector<int> vec2{5, 6};
vector<int> vec3{7};
vector<int> vec4{1, 2, 3};

vecOfVecs.push_back(vec2);
vecOfVecs.push_back(vec3);
vecOfVecs.push_back(vec4);

cout << vecOfVecs[0][0] << endl;
My program crashes when I access vector of vectors using [][] ?
What am I doing wrong here ?
 
vec2{5,6} //danger
 
The first line is doing the wrong thing.
> vector< vector<int> > vecOfVecs(3);
Does not behave like you think it does.
 
@SyncMaster you have 3 empty vectors in your vector of vectors
 
1:12 AM
oooh fun
a size six vector with the last three elements being the only ones to contain anything
fun times
 
My bad. I thought vector<int> vec2{5, 6} is good
 
@SyncMaster depends on what you want
 
So what is the correct way to do this ?
I have to have three vectors in a vector. And each of the vector can be of varying size.
* I want three vectors
 
vector< vector<int> > vecOfVecs;
 
vector< vector<int> > vecOfVecs;
vecOfVecs.reserve(3); // optional
 
1:15 AM
Ops
 
vector< vector<int> > vecOfVecs = { {5, 6}, {7}, {1, 2, 3} };
 
But I get to know the values only at run time.
 
Ell
I think at first contact we give them a physical encyclopedia
 
user406009
@SyncMaster Here is a simple explanation. vector< vector<int> > vecOfVecs(3); creates a vector with three empty vectors inside it. So you start with { {}, {}, {} }. Then you push back your three new vectors onto the end. So you end up with { {}, {}, {}, {5,6}, {7}, {1,2,3}}.
 
Ell
And also a dictionary with pictures
And a TTS machine
 
user406009
1:16 AM
@Ell But how would they read the pictures?
 
user406009
Or the encylopedia?
 
@Lalaland Thanks. That explains.
 
Ell
I guess they might not have eyes, that's true
Err
 
Or their eyes might respond to a completely different part of the spectrum. So they'd require spectrum-correcting eyewear.
 
user406009
We can only see a very tiny, tiny sliver of the light spectrum.
 
user406009
1:18 AM
Similar stuff for hearing. Also, hearing works in strange ways.
 
We've got animals on this planet for which this is true, let alone folks from a different planet.
 
user406009
Also, odds are, one civ is going to be way ahead of the other civ in tech.
 
There is also the most annoying one: we're the first ones. The "precursors".
 
Ell
that'd be a disaster
 
That would suck major balls
 
user406009
1:20 AM
Well, it all sorta depends on how the Fermi paradox is resolved.
 
But universe doesn't suck that much, statistically that option is near impossible.
 
Ell
Fermi paradox?
 
The response to my statistics assertion, basically: "statistics say this, how come no spock"
 
@ElimGarak But statistically, those statistics would be the same for all those possible civilizations. It's gotta be one :p
 
@Ell Some GPUs by NVIDIA
 
Ell
1:21 AM
Also Intel are dicks man
Why would they do open source drivers and then require a firmware blob :V
 
@AngryLettuce the GPU is on fire and not at once, until you open the case and look at it?
 
Fermi is the codename for a GPU microarchitecture developed by Nvidia as the successor to the Tesla microarchitecture. It was the primary microarchitecture used in the GeForce GeForce 400 series and GeForce 500 series. It was followed by Kepler, and used alongside Kepler in the GeForce 600 series, GeForce 700 series, and GeForce 800 series, in the latter two only in mobile GPUs. In the workstation market, Fermi found use in the Quadro x000 series, Quadro NVS models, as well as in Nvidia Tesla computing modules. All desktop Fermi GPUs were manufactured in 40 nm, mobile Fermi GPUs in 40 nm and 28...
 
user406009
The Fermi paradox — or Fermi's paradox — is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations, such as in the Drake equation, and the lack of evidence for such civilizations. The basic points of the argument, made by physicists Enrico Fermi (1901–1954) and Michael H. Hart (born 1932), are: The Sun is a typical star, and there are billions of stars in the galaxy that are billions of years older. With high probability, some of these stars will have Earth-like planets, and if the earth is typical, some might develop intelligent...
 
Fermi is the codename for a GPU microarchitecture developed by Nvidia as the successor to the Tesla microarchitecture. It was the primary microarchitecture used in the GeForce GeForce 400 series and GeForce 500 series. It was followed by Kepler, and used alongside Kepler in the GeForce 600 series, GeForce 700 series, and GeForce 800 series, in the latter two only in mobile GPUs. In the workstation market, Fermi found use in the Quadro x000 series, Quadro NVS models, as well as in Nvidia Tesla computing modules. All desktop Fermi GPUs were manufactured in 40 nm, mobile Fermi GPUs in 40 nm and 28...
 
One of the biggest problems of the Fermi paradox is the slow pace thingy. Million years is a massive amount of time for advanced civilization that could come to us. At best, differences between species are in the thousands, not millions of years. Here, at least.
 
user406009
1:23 AM
I truthfully think the "life destroys itself before it starts to colonize space" is the most likely.
 
@Lalaland You're supposed to be optimistic, you little shit
 
Ell
Ooh its a great time to buy AMD stock
 
But I do agree, we either reach for the stars, or die here.
 
@ElimGarak hey, maybe that is the optimistic situation. It could be far worse, they could be coming to get us! :p
 
Aliens voted Trump
 
1:25 AM
And there is also a problem with slow pacing. First, no species would subject themselves to it. Second, even if they would be that insane... At slow pace, it would take a massive amount of time and limited food supplies even with cryo. And there is the chilling third possibility, warping spacetime is impossible and we're stuck here, in other words, there is no such thing as exotic matter which is mandated by the current solutions of Einstein's field equations dealing with FTL methods.
 
GPUs will solve everything
Vote GPU
 
Ell
Srsly someone buy AMD stocks for me plz
I don't has brokerage acc
 
I'd buy AMD stock, but that would jinx the whole thing.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Can't generation ships theoretically reach long distances?
 
user406009
And without that much new tech.
 
user406009
1:28 AM
(It would just cost a lot of money)
 
Yeah, I imagine that politicians are a universal thing. There is the chance of politicians making one: planet dying. But you don't want homeless aliens on your doorstep.
 
just need a population that is willing to maintain that ship for generations. What do you do with the people who grow up wanting to leave? :D
 
user406009
@melak47 Just need a good enough VR system.
 
heh
 
The problem with generation starships is the human/alien factor. Staring into the abyss and being convicted to live out your days on a shitty piece of rusty old metal might be the wet dream of the 1st gen of astronauts. Their children are not guaranteed mental strength required for that.
 
user406009
1:30 AM
@ElimGarak Well, tough luck.
 
user406009
And you don't need that many people in the ship.
 
Theoretically, you could teach the kids that there is nothing but that ship, so they can't be sad about things they don't know about. But eventually they have to takeover, so... Shit.
 
@ElimGarak risky :p
they're gonna be pissed when the find out the rumors of the ancient homeland are true :p
 
One of the most terrifying deaths is being dropped out of a ship in deep space in an EVA suit. And being unfortunate enough to catching some spin. And you'll be spinning in the void until you die.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak There are much worse ways to die.
 
1:32 AM
@ElimGarak hey, I saw that TV show! :p
 
user406009
At least in space, you would die quickly.
 
But it's the sensation of hitting nothing. You can't orient yourself, nothing. :D It's like being paralyzed, but still able to move. :D
 
@ElimGarak use your natural gas powered uhh jetpack
 
user406009
@ElimGarak So, sorta like the vaults in Fallout :P
 
One day, we will teach children about Noether's theorem on the translational symmetry of the universe and Newton's laws by giving them a school trip to space where they'll be instructed to try and move in vacuum by flapping their hands. Man, I was born too fucking early. Kill me please so I can try again.
 
user406009
1:35 AM
@ElimGarak I am afraid there is probably nothing after death.
 
user406009
Just like turning off a lightbulb.
 
@Lalaland yup, sucks balls
 
user406009
The light doesn't "go anywhere"
 
@ElimGarak y not
@Lalaland speak for yourself
 
user406009
@ElimGarak And, you can actually purchase tickets to "space" right now.
 
user406009
1:35 AM
Provided you have a lot of money.
 
@Lalaland Relief from C++
 
Yeah, but then it will not be a suicide mission and it will cost like movie ticket much :D
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Would you go to Mars even if it was a suicide mission?
 
user406009
Say 2 weeks on Mars before you die?
 
Humans will cause disaster on Earth, must escape to stars, Stephen Hawking warns - bad journalism, I think it should be read as escape to other planets, not stars ... unless you want to see charcoal humans
 
1:37 AM
@Lalaland Nah, I am strongly against the current gen space tech. I applaud them on risking their lives, but it is largely for nothing. The key to the stars is not on Mars, it is within LHC's data dump or future particle colliders. :D
 
@AngryLettuce in a GC'ed language you might at least linger in GC limbo for a while after death :p
 
user406009
@ElimGarak We will see I guess.
 
user406009
Particle physics hasn't seem to have done too much for us recently.
 
My definition of spaceworthy: Nonchalantly standing still wrt to any point of reference without sweat. While gravity assisted navigation (in today's terms) is a thing, we're not going anywhere. :D
 
user406009
Anyways, if we used nuclear rockets, we could get to a somewhat decent fraction of light speed.
 
1:39 AM
@Lalaland Patience. :P
 
@Lalaland that's why they're smashing all the particles they can find, cause they're mad :p
 
@Lalaland Use of nuclear weapons has been forbidden in space in the 90s. :D
There was a proposal for it, Project Orion 'twas called. In the 50s.
 
@Lalaland GPUs will solve those
 
@ElimGarak well that's a different kind of nuclear "rocket" :D
 
If you can't circumvent relativistic effects, stay at home.
 
user406009
1:40 AM
@AngryLettuce They probably already are using GPUs in some fashion.
 
It's like a newbie trying to write GTA VI as his first project in C++.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Laws can be changed.
 
@Lalaland Actually, yes. Department of Energy is funding Nvidia's Pascal research, technology which is going to overtop the Chinese supercomputer, and NASA is involved, obviously, as a filthy user. :D
I am extremely annoyed by sci-fi stories where we find an ancient civilization which figured shit out instead of us. "Yeah, don't touch that, we don't really understand it, we just use it." Fuck Halo. Fuck Mass Effect. And fuck everything else. :D
 
@ElimGarak Like Mass Effect
damnit
 
One thing Mass Effect got right was right after activating the Charon relay. Turians on the other side. INTERSTELLAR WAR, inba first contact diplomacy
 
1:45 AM
Then we got saved by Asari <3
 
@Lalaland GPUs will rule the world
 
I like how Liara is like a lil' bitch in all of Mass Effect and in all the comics she's kinda badass. I think even the devs know it, they joke about it when you visit her on Illium (have you ever faced an asari commando unit before? few humans have line and it ends up sounding really adorable)
 
Ell
I would like to write MATH table reading code please
Will GPUs helpvme with that?
We really ought to have hardware accelerated font reading by now
 
GPUs can do anything you want, if you sacrifice a goat in their name.
 
Ell
I'll use a compute shader
 
1:48 AM
@ElimGarak "we don't really understand it, we just use it" describes millions of LOC written by older people before us, so that's pretty accurate.
 
@ElimGarak I have yet to read the ME comics.
I just finished reading A Song of Ice and Fire so I might do that soon
 
They fill in the blanks in two groups, Mass Effect 1.5 and 2.5
 
GPUs best CPUs
 
I liked reading ME books because I could literally imagine the places described in there. Not blob-like shadows, but really imagine it. :D
 
as opposed to figuratively imagine
 
user406009
1:50 AM
@ElimGarak Seems like you need better books.
 
I used to read all those articles and watch with envy at the friendly competition between Elon Musk & Jeff Bezos for the race to space. By I now have realized that, although they will be remembered as pioneers to space exploration, they themselves are unlikely to be alive to witness human succeed in colonizing mars, thanks to the human incompetency ...
 
user406009
Also, is there that much reason to colonize Mars?
 
user406009
I mean, the Earth is quite a swell place.
 
user406009
Lots of land available once you leave the coasts.
 
No, there is no reason. Nothing they're doing is relevant to anything. Also, that singling out reminded me of this:
One day, the media will talk about a game, and not try and make out only one person was responsible...one day #IHaveADream #TheGamechangers
Elon Musk doesn't do shit. In fact, had his shitty little company X.com not merged with PayPal (where it was completely shut down weeks in), you'd never ever hear about him. Props should go to the people working there, you can throw $2B at someone like Telkitty, you'd still end up with nothing.
 
user406009
1:55 AM
@ElimGarak But Elon hired those people.
 
user406009
Or hired the people who hired those people.
 
user406009
And he told them what to do.
 
user406009
Doesn't that provide at least some value?
 
Some, sure. But still, he didn't tell them what to do. He's not qualified to do even that. But he did hire someone who can, though.
Elon Musk is a coolio benefactor. But nothing more. Just like Bill Gates supporting piss-to-water doesn't make him the author of the tech (or having any inkling how to do it)
 
Elon is some kind of prophet in the US apparently
I don't understand merkins
 
1:57 AM
Yeah, they think of him as "Tony Stark", which I find offensive. Isn't like Tony Stark a proper engineer? The guy who does his tech? I am glad he's got cash and he's pushing it in that direction. But the props should go to the people who actually do things with money.
2K forked the money for GTA V. Rockstar North made it, with Rockstar San Diego. Most people don't know that 2K owns Rockstar, which is good.
 
There is no correlation between being the top 1% richest people & being hard working.
also ...
May 22 '15 at 10:14, by chmod 711 telkitty
in the old time ... just a boss decides whether to hire a person who wants a job there , now it's hiring manager through HR to Job agencies who then use websites to advertise a job
 

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