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14:00
It think it sucks to split
Wait a second
When / why did the mods swoop room owners up? o-o
yesterday
Yesterday, because we generate too many fucking flags
@CatPlusPlus My guess is that the huge majority of people here don't think the problems with SO chat are bad enough to warrant a full migration to a different service.
but only three of us were there, and the rest weren't present
14:00
@CatPlusPlus That... almost makes no sense
missed the conversation
didn't they say they identified the flagger?
@sehe Too much work to be worth it
why didn't they just suspend them?
s/ger/got/
14:01
@ThePhD they did? wtf?
@sehe Right, why can't the mods just suspend people?
@CatPlusPlus IDGI - room owners do not in any way cause flags/flagging
Wait, who was that flagger?
@AndyProwl What you said.
@ThePhD cause mods and SO politics
@sehe no, but trolls do
14:02
Yes. And having trolls is not caused by having room owners
@TonyTheLion so the two warnings on the starboard are just bluffing?
excessively so, that mods get annoyed
(well, now it's only one)
I haven't seen anymore flag abuse since the pinned warning by Jon.
Instead, I'd say having room owners is about the only measure we have /against/ having trolls
14:02
Room generates work, mods don't want to deal with it, room will get nuked
@Mysticial he had to re-warn them
"We don't want to suspend people, but we want the flags to stop. You don't have any power to fix this, but we're going to bother you about it anyways." ???
@CatPlusPlus Now you're just paranoid.
Like, it's not like ROwners can take down the flags.
Were they demanding a change in our behavior?
Keep calm and chat on.
14:03
@EtiennedeMartel you think so?
I mean, that might be more reasonable?
@ThePhD basically yea
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm just trying to understand what happened. I'll chat on after that :)
@thecoshman Yes.
14:03
but telling three people out of how many that, isn't going to make a sodding difference
@TonyTheLion did you guys point out that the problem was likely to be just one guy?
@TonyTheLion What change in what behaviour?
and he was identified and warned?
I don't understand
@TonyTheLion Ironically I want to ask this... you got transcript for this?
14:05
None of that makes any sense. It's like someone's deliberately leaving details out in order to support a certain narrative.
It's ~~super top secret~~
@sehe We're too noisy, too many flags generated from this room (whether by trolls or not) and hardly any SO mods like us, want to deal with this room.
@TonyTheLion Technically, 5 of us got pulled in. But I did most of the talking.
@EtiennedeMartel Want the entire fucking dump of that room
@TonyTheLion So, what change in behaviour do they want? And how does removing owners help?
14:05
@Mysticial you did and then I did some of it
oh, it was some super secret room
ffs
(Because lol you can still access deleted rooms)
@CatPlusPlus you have link for this?
@Mysticial I think I was there, but apparently Jon completely failed to stay on topic, so I didn't get (at all) what was going on
or a dump?
14:06
this makes no sense
@CatPlusPlus Yes.
It's ~~super top secret~~
if only there was a place where we can chat, and not have any bullshit
Owners only bubs
Have fun there.
14:06
@cat like I said, got a link/dump I can read?
@thecoshman facebook?
I can chat here just fine.
1 min ago, by Etienne de Martel
None of that makes any sense. It's like someone's deliberately leaving details out in order to support a certain narrative.
@edition with out bullshit
Not saying any one of you is a liar, but I'm gonna start thinking so if you don't produce a reasonable proof.
14:07
Lying is not necessarily implied
It's possible that mods did not make any sense indeed
@thecoshman peer reviewed mailing list?
@EtiennedeMartel it's pretty bold claims alright
@R.MartinhoFernandes Question is, how long, if mods remove owners for irrational reasons. I think the situation can only get worse from there. With people taking refuge on mumble, irc, slack and so on, I see this room fading. Not that I particularly care, but it's reasonable to talk about it IMO
I'd rather be using another service any way
@edition ugh mailing lists
14:08
@Etienne or just generally stop acting like a crying baby.
@sehe afaik room owners weren't removed.
@AndyProwl However, nobody confirms one way or another. This is the frustrating part
@TonyTheLion ok.
@sehe no, just hide your head in the sand and pretend there is no issue at all ever
Okay, okay, okay. What did the mods say the owners need to do?
9 mins ago, by ThePhD
When / why did the mods swoop room owners up? o-o
14:09
@thecosh that's what tinfoil hat people say
So that was rubbish
Probably change the way we talk here
@sehe no idea where that came from
less sharp talks and stuff
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...
14:09
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's not exactly tin foil to say we are not a popular room
@thecoshman Oh, when nothing constructive happens, I'll do that in a heart beat :)
I can't imagine anything else they'd expect us to do to reduce the flagging
The Lounge is arming for a civil war.
It's fucking chinese whispers in here.
@TonyTheLion Good. Settled then.
Back to regular chatting
14:10
@AndyProwl vOv why should we do that? we are us
@ElimGarak Only because of misinformation
muskets and cannons?
machete and bribes
@sehe When I said "swoop", I meant "swoop them in to have this conversation with mods", not "swoop them up and remove them from the room owner list". /cc @TonyTheLion
Anyway I don't care, not my problem
14:10
@thecoshman I'm just trying to guess what the mods wanted from us, not judging whether it's right
@ThePhD gosh.
@EtiennedeMartel I here they told us to sacrifice our first borns
@ElimGarak good thing I'm on the Right Side
14:10
define: swoop up
You deal with it
Since you know best
:) I'm not sure what prompts that, but it makes sense a priori
I'm gonna ignore everything from now on
@sehe We got a new spot open for an owner. You're interested?
@Feeds :(
14:11
@Feeds :(
@sehe Collect, gather, bundle up. Bundle everyone up for this secret conversation, is what I was going for.
English is the hards.
is this all because of that one flagger?
@CatPlusPlus You mean, the fagging? Or the discussing? (Because you could easily ignore that before)
@Feeds good riddance
@ThePhD ah well you could be less vague in future.
14:12
@Mysticial what did the mods expect us to change? Were they just saying "reduce the flags, no matter how, or we'll freeze you"?
has Lounge been destroyed because of a troll flagger?
@ThePhD swooped up means removed from position. Period
@sehe Problems in general
@EtiennedeMartel fairly sure he's done it before
@sehe Oh. Well, I'm sorry, I'll choose better words next time. :c
14:12
@CatPlusPlus You'll not be surprised I get the sentiment
@ʞɔᴉN hardly just because of that, the troll flagger seems to be like the last drop
Sehe Was Right
@thecoshman I know. That's why I'm asking him, because I know the other owners would agree.
@ThePhD :) Or just defuse the confusion since I was hardly the only one thinking I missed a power intervention
@CatPlusPlus Not taken (as starbait)
14:13
@CatPlusPlus that shall be your epitaph
@AndyProwl I can't give details without getting in trouble. But the sense is that we can't do anything because we don't have the power to.
@Mysticial Can you tell what they were expecting us to do then?
Well fuck it.
Good job on the drama guys.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Hi.
14:13
hi @AnastasiyaAsadullayeva
@AndyProwl inb4 "it's secret"
You guys are nuts.
Way to act in a sensible and reasonable manner.
@Mysticial lol, trouble. Open discussion hay? fuck me
14:14
hi @pingers
If there's something actionable I don't see how it can be secret.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Did you get my IRC memo?
So yeah, you're all nutters.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Easy to downplay it. I say, someone caused a lot of confusion, and people responded in adequate bafflement. It's sad it took ~10 minutes for the confusion to be dispelled
@R.MartinhoFernandes you think it's perfectly rational for there to have been some scecret mod chat?
14:14
@JonClements Sorry to bug you, but I think you might be interested in this conversation.
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Who exactly did you message? lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes wat
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ memoserv tells you when shit is read
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva What are you doing? (reflect)
14:14
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey, I'm not.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva sandy and Cicada
:P
Cicada is rightfold for fuck sake
@Mysticial Why? I think the only thing discussed here was alleged things, and they were false. I'm fine here.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva wait did people actually think otherwise?
14:15
@sehe Just noticing that everyone is making a whole fuss out of nothing.
I hope sandy is you, or rightfold has a fucked up sleep schedule that's for sure
> everyone
> fuss
@JonClements show us the "secret" discussion room
inb4 suspension
Come on. It was 10 minutes.
@JonClements Show us the room.
14:15
At least show it to all room owners.
wtf guys
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Hmmm I didn't see your memo then :o mind sending it again?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I agree with this
@sehe look around you
@R.MartinhoFernandes because only the owners use this room?
14:16
don't jump on him
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva so, why add fuel?
@JonClements You can see what's happening. There isn't really much I can say without permission from you.
I don't like being in the dark about some super secret bullshit room moderation crap I'm supposed to act upon blind.
@andy don't worry, we'll give you a jump too
But basically, most of us are looking for an action item.
14:16
@sehe cause fire is nice and cozy :P
@sehe I am not adding fuel.
@thecoshman thx bby I feel better
For one thing, I don't need to see the room. Pin a message if some official change in lounge policy is decided.
I need some food
Be back after the storm
14:17
@thecosh no because the owners are ultimately the ones running it.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva reflect more.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't like being in the dark about some super secret bull shit room moderation crap I'm supposed to live by blind.
Room attitude is not the issue. New people coming in are the ones that need an attitude adjustment.
@thecoshman Yep.
@R.MartinhoFernandes no because users are the ones using it
4
14:17
@sehe State your intent, this is not exactly the best moment for riddles.
@ElimGarak Or need to be dealt with more graciously :/
If you think it's relevant to the discussion, then feel free... the room was there so have a bit of feedback and have a chat about concerns without interruption and to allow freedom to speak out about specifics that may not be appropriate in public... Feel free to share anything that isn't too specific
> -MemoServ- The memo has been successfully sent to sandy.
@JonClements ok thanks
@thecosh the users just do what the owners say.
14:18
@JonClements but not actually for us to see?
I don't know what to say.
@R.MartinhoFernandes wat
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
such dreams
@Griwes when it comes to room policy, that's ultimately how it goes.
@R.MartinhoFernandes the owners can sod of, I am here to chat, not appease egos
14:19
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Dude. That's just a random nickname I picked lol. I had no intention of reusing it (and it's taken now anyway)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hope not.
@thecoshman you're definitely appeasing my ego :) :P
how about we keep silent a bit and let people who know about this story say something rather than doing internal wrestling
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Oh
Woops
@AndyProwl this.
14:19
@R.MartinhoFernandes there is no such thing as a room policy. only SO rules exist
agree with andy
@Abyx I refer you to our rules page
Shut up, Abyx. We've been over this before.
Yes, we need owners enforcing a policy. But for fuck sake we can't have some secret police enforcing secret rules.
@Abyx Please read the rules.
@R.MartinhoFernandes please be polite
14:20
@Mysticial or @Jon or @Tony please just tell us what's going on and what is expected from us
If we don't want gifs we don't get gifs.
so this is still happening
@AndyProwl start a private room ! oh wait :)
I thought it would have calmed down by now
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think you need to cool down a bit now.
14:21
@sehe :P
@Abyx Please be so polite to shut up :)
@Abyx Please shut up some more.
43 secs ago, by Griwes
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think you need to cool down a bit now.
Why is everyone so rude, you are out of your mind
@Griwes He's already cool. He just cut to the chase, I expect. Which is reasonable considering the repeat discussions indeed
14:21
cool guys, a shut up race is just what we need right now
ooooh, s/owner/Judge Jury & Executioner/g now it all makes sense
see? I delete every comment because I'm worried that I'll be punched by a room owner for my comments.
@edition stfu ;)
@edition room owners can see deleted comments
The problem yesterday was essentially that there had been excessive flagging by some trolls in this room, and @JonClements had been doing a lot of modding of this room specifically, looking into flaggers, etc. From what I got from @JonClements he was getting a bit fed up having to deal with it as much as he had been, and so he asked some of the room owners if we could help him by more quickly going to kick/mute, NOT antagonizing flaggers, and then sending him mod flags.
14:23
Go on.
It's kind of sad how people who've been together in the same room for years can fling "fuck off" and "shut up" at each other with such ease.
6
@TonyTheLion That sounds reasonable
Thanks @Tony.
@TonyTheLion That sounds incredibly reasonable.
14:23
@TonyTheLion but how can we kick/mute flaggers if we don't know who they are?
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Yeah...
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Mhmm.
@AndyProwl That's precisely the problem.
The suggestion of freezing the room came up, as it was/is becoming a nuisance, and other SO mods get upset by this room and the flags it generates
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I never got along with Abyx. I don't think a lot of people did.
14:24
Not a reason
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva people may use bold font to emphasize their intent to insult people.
@AndyProwl that is precisely the issue that I brought up, with the other room owners
@TonyTheLion except, correct me if I'm wrong, a kicked use can still flag?
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva What I'm saying is, it's not because people are in the same room that they can suddenly get along.
and mod says that unfortunately SO isn't interested much in changing chat
14:24
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva it's kind of sad how, after trolling so hard yourself on occasion, you choose to portray this as a feat of utter immorality. We're still the same people, remember? (hopeful sideways glance)
@TonyTheLion Did they acknowledge the issue? If not, how are they expecting us to help then?
@sehe he's trolling right now.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That could be true. I don't appreciate it as such though.
@EtiennedeMartel Then they plonk each other and move on like adults.
so iow, mods want use to use tools we don't have on people we don't who they are?
14:25
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not really no.
... Yep. "Write three times, debug everywhere" Fucking OpenGL bullshit.
@EtiennedeMartel to fair, you don't get along with a lot of people
@sehe I still don't tell regulars to "fuck off" or "shut up".
@AndyProwl I guess the main thing I got from it was to not openly antagonzing people that we suspect of flagging, or openly antangonizing anyone coming in here. If they are annoying, then tell them, if they don't listen, just kick/mute. Flag for mod
4
@thecoshman I assume maybe he wants to be mod-flagged in earlier so we can be constructive about it with the help of mod tools, instead of being paranoid and trying to smoke the trolls out
14:26
a lot of people here don't get along with a lot of other people
@thecoshman I don't know. Maybe. I think I'm doing fine with most people. Although they're the judge of that.
@TonyTheLion That ^^
Xeo
Xeo
Hi
@Xeo Can't stop here
14:26
Welcome @Xeo, how are you today?
@TonyTheLion So we should kick those who we suspect of flagging? How is that not a way of antagonizing them?
@TonyTheLion ... we do tell people they are annoying
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva the room owner said that it's trolling, so it is trolling.
This is butt country
@TonyTheLion There we go. Finally. We can build some new rules and regulations out of that.
14:27
and as I said, if I am not mistaken, kicked users can still flag
@thecoshman Be more friendly was the message I suppose
@AndyProwl Give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
@EtiennedeMartel So not kick? I don't understand
this looks like a huge contradiction to me
Uuughghghghgh.
@AndyProwl Kick people who are openly trolling, flag for mod when some starts flagging.
14:27
Using "flag for mod" feature was definitely a feature I was advised using more often
Xeo
Xeo
I was in that room too, and tbh I didn't get all that much out of the initial discussion. It was rather wishy-washy with Jon reassuring us he was on our side. Didn't take part in the discussion after that, and then the room poofed out of existence. So yeah.
lounge drama. let's make it a tv show
@Xeo yea you missed my discussion with jon :/
@Mr.kbok would be entertaining
I really don't get all the secrecy bullshit.
I think the typical Lounge attitude of "stay away from the SO establishment" is coming back to bite us in the rear.
14:28
@EtiennedeMartel But I thought the situation arose because of people who were troll-flagging
@Xeo The room is still there. You have the 10k to see it.
"Mods told us to be stricter with kicking and engage less"
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, what's the deal with only telling the owners
@TonyTheLion ooh I get it, be more friendly by just blindly kicking people who are new and don't know our ways? got ya
@Mr.kbok no, not even all the owners were told that.
14:29
the point is we can't taking any action, less or more strict, against someone if we don't know who that someone is
@R.MartinhoFernandes All room owners were invited, but only those who were online at the time was let in.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh.
@thecoshman That's exactly not what he said.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did ping you :/
But I guess at this point you only hear what you want to hear.
14:30
And you also did not tell me anything after vOv
because I did think you were one of the people that should have been part of that discussion
You could have told it to anyone.
I got pinged but I was asleep because eurocentrism.
neurocentrism
ITT eurocentrism makes you sleepy
14:30
@EtiennedeMartel it's what I am seing from others too
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I don't think that's really relevant. Try to see the people instead of getting hung up on some behaviour that crosses a imaginary threshold. I think I would agree more with you if you didn't cause a lot more fuzz by getting morally superior in the middle of a stressed situation. I think it was not helping. Which is why asked you to reflect on your own contribution (did it help?))
Has anyone noticed that gists don't let you "choose a language" anymore?
There's no reason to hide that information.
I mean fuck sake, if a mod wanted to have an announcement like that, fucking come in here and pin a message
use what precious little features this site does have
@sehe No, it didn't, and I am not going to try, thanks sehe. If you want to have a serious conversation together, this is probably not the place.
14:31
@thecoshman that would have been a better option definitely
Also, everyone needs to seriously chill. It's a chatroom.
@AndyProwl Nah. We can kindly ask the mods to single out the troll. Is how I understand it
@R.MartinhoFernandes To be fair, if they were given the impression of it being secret they'd need to find a way outside of SO to contact you (plausible for some, but not for others?)
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dunno, twas basically "1. don't talk about the fight club"
@sehe Pretty much
14:32
@ThePhD Whoa.
mods being mainly @JonClements I guess
I would have said what I quoted above, had I been privy to it.
Xeo
Xeo
IRTA manly
@sehe oh. So the kicking was an orthogonal advice
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva you don't get it maaaaan, you weren't there maaaan
14:32
@Xeo The first rule of the flag club is you don't talk about the flag club
@sehe except they didn't tell us
There's really no reason to hide the outcome.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva You forgot the add "fucking chill or get the fuck out".
Xeo
Xeo
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Try turning down the AC
@thecoshman Well. It's there now, right
Xeo
Xeo
14:33
Or is it up?
It's not the moment to play aggressive sehe
Xeo
Xeo
Make it cooler.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva It's the Lounge. I guess this whole thing shows that, somehow, we all care.
@Xeo I've set it to 23 degrees
14:33
@sehe no, we have it second hand
Especially since the outcome is actionable.
At least with DirectX you can't ship a driver unless you pass the internal driver conformance tests.
But OpenGL? Ship that shit and just pray it works.
But now we know.
@ThePhD Are you requesting a core profile?
@Nooble Yes.
14:34
@AndyProwl Yeah. I suppose it was meant as, please target your anti-troll measures, instead going on with-hunts and potentially causing unnecessary upset.
And I see no reason to pack and leave so I'm still staying.
I can't turn on my AC because it smells of something bad
At least Vulkan is going to have a strict conformance testing suite.
@thecoshman I don't care. People who were there y'day had it first hand.
I cleaned the filters and all, but it stills smell bad
14:34
@JonClements you bud, want to fucking pass comments on how to this room can help mods do their job, try posting a message here so we can fucking see shit like. You'd be ammazed at how many more people read it when they can read it
@sehe It's starting to make sense
@ThePhD Is it in reported extensions?
@ThePhD You should ask on SO.
Almost like burnt-plastic bad (even though it's nowhere near that same smell)
I am leaving coz it has passed midnight & I am having breakkie with friends in the morning
so 99
14:35
I still don't get why the secrecy but it doesn't seem to matter much, I guess the important info has been shared now
bye @chmod711telkitty
@AndyProwl not really. We bitch and moan at each other, but we keep it to our selves
@thecoshman ...
@thecoshman the idea being the ROs would pass on my comments and have a constructive conversation relaying concerns here.... which is kind of happening now...
@R.MartinhoFernandes Somewhat. There's going to be some stuff on his end to see if he can push for better chat features. Jon also admits that chat is neglected. And I've made some suggestions. I hope a moderator's voice will be stronger than a bunch of Lounge people whom we have a bad reputation for anyways.
14:36
it's when a random twat comes in that they get shit
@CatPlusPlus EXT_direct_state_access is in there, yes
@thecoshman Which is why you just bitched and moaned at a mod?
@ThePhD Welp
Happens
@Jon ah, thanks.
@JonClements You can't actually ban the flaggers, right?
14:36
@JonClements You realize all this would be so much simpler if you just disabled the flag ability of the flagger, right? You said you could.
@thecoshman Look, if you don't want to understand, then don't. Stop polluting the transcript with that passive-aggressive bullshit.
@sehe I meant that regarding general day to day conversation
Due to SO policy or something, correct?
I'm p sure I've heard of DX features being misreported too, so that's just a General Thing To Know
@JonClements Many room owners didn't have a clue, which is probably why some simple misunderstandings derailed the discussion (a lot). Take away for next time? /cc @thecoshman
14:37
@JonClements I kind of mistook the "what happens in vegas stays in vegas" clue a bit too literal I guess :/ :(
There should be some compat databases available
Somehow what was relayed was more like "IRC or frozen room", but I'm glad we sorted it out.
@thecoshman Don't blame Jon for that
@JonClements what I said still stands.
I wasn't really sure what I could and could not share
14:37
No it wasn't, but whatever
And I'll re-iterate, the private room was not to hide anything, just to allow un-interrupted and focused conversation and if someone wanted to name/shame someone... that's best not brought out in public.
@CatPlusPlus Well, unfortunately for me I've never had a DX feature kind of just error and do the wrong thing... maybe I'm just lucky. Still a bit sad, it's not like my OpenGL drivers are like hot-fresh off the press, and these functions aren't new either. ;~;
@JonClements I wasn't sure how much I was allowed to say. But I'm glad Tony took the initiative.
anyway thank you Lounge today I managed to do absolutely zero work
@AndyProwl :(
14:38
:P
victim-playing :)
projection :)
Yeah, have been at work for more than an hour now and I've done jack shit.
@Mysticial imo that very fact is terrible thing
TIME TO FILE SOME OPENGL BUGS.
@sehe as if I felt like doing work anyway
14:38
@EtiennedeMartel :\ yes... an hour
Just as well I'm still a student.
@ThePhD Driver bugs.
@thecoshman An hour and a half, actually.
But it's friday, I have the monday off, and wink wink it's my birthday.
Happy Birthday @Etienne!
Wait, have I been plonked by Jon?
Am I that annoying?
14:40
@JonClements but you came to an end statement, one that should impact not just how the owners here deal with 'trouble' but how the other regulars do to. I hate to play the 'we're different card'... but we certainly are large room. We self imposed that simply being regular doesn't make you owner, as we'd have far too many.
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I think he's just busy.
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ inb4 nobody answers because everyone plonked you
Maybe that's a thing to reconsider now
Just disable the fucking flag ability of the flagger, everyone is happy, the end. Why is everything so complicated.
@AndyProwl oh, @ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ is around?
14:40
lol
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva that would require effort
@EtiennedeMartel have a cake, birthdays love cake
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Sadly - the only way to do that is by suspending chat completely
@thecoshman There were parts of that discussion that obviously could not possibly be done in public. Nobody there would disagree with that. But I wasn't sure where to draw the line.
14:41
Hmmm? Can't we disable _the feature_?
I mean, we can have mod flags still
Hey Jon, let's play a game.
@JonClements lol
good job
I have 1 guess for the flagger and you wink at me if I'm right
@Mysticial Yes this
14:42
...
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ ;D
meh; I can't see the flags so I am a happy camper
this game has been played already and it doesn't matter who the flagger is
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ ;D
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I'm suddenly reminded of "Saw" :p
14:42
what matters is that they've been identified
he he
I say it's LRiO
Can you imagine that if this chat gets closed we might actually have to go back to answering questions on the main site?
Is that a wink Jon?
Holy shit, I heard you winking miles away
@Mysticial a conclusion was reached though, and concise action point.
14:43
Without saying too much, a couple have already been warned about flagging and one now has a ban
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ He's too insane to flag anything
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva or work! gulp
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ bullshildt
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ that's so unlikely it makes me want to question your sanity
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ plonking you in a bit
14:44
So, it can be dealt with - however, it can be dealt with, with less noise is all
"Setting up a flag could also possess the meaning of conquering something"
@ScarletAmaranth Now that sounds like LRiO
@JonClements you have fairly shit control over those bans right? it's like slap on the wrist take a day out, or perma ban?
@JonClements wow so they are married?
@ScarletAmaranth I question sanity only below 20% probability, actually
SOMEONE SET US UP THE FLAG
MOVE ZIG!
14:45
@sehe Keep me updated
@thecoshman per hour... 1hr to a year max I think
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva lol
@JonClements oh right, then fuck throw that shit around like it's going out of style brother
oh, my country is having a flag debate as well.
you see some guy raise a couple flags over nothing or old hat, give them a ban, recognise it from before, raise the stakes
14:46
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: We're a rowdy bunch, but deep down we love each other. [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
> deep down
There we go.
If only balpha made flags NOT cross-rooms
@EtiennedeMartel lies.
> a rowdy bunch
sounds gay as hell
14:46
How many times has this feature been requested again
2
@EtiennedeMartel ¬_¬ like Mariana Trench deep down?
anally deep down
deep like this discussion
I'm doing my best to keep it as deep as possible
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva yup
14:48
also, I must say I am amazed we got through that without flags
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva A couple of times... and to me it makes completely sense to not raise flags outside the room for a little while... However, the concern I believe is that for smaller rooms and those that don't have enough 10k users, there's the potential for bad stuff to sit around for a lot longer than it should
@JonClements Ugh. Then make a fucking feature request at SO - it's not like SO has no programmers employed, right? (RIGHT?!)
@thecoshman because...? flags work so well? I don't see how anyone would use flags. THe only people who do are newbs or trolls
@JonClements Could be a configurable setting per-room.
14:49
programmers may be expensive.
In the end, a room should decide if it's big enough to handle its own problems.
@JonClements Doesn't seem too problematic, have flags expand to other rooms after a couple minutes if unhandled, or immediately if there's less than X people in?
@JonClements true
(You make it, because if anyone not on the staff will, then it'll be instantly rejected as "too much effort, not important enough".)
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva But we want to keep them in so that we can all ignore them, remember? That's the plan.
14:49
@JonClements Can owners handle flags?
@edition and SE has no funding :(
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva that's nice.
But that would require thinking and algorithms and that is difficult, so it's better to just freeze the lounge, one of the most active rooms on the site.
oh wait they're backed by a huge VC firm
@ʞɔᴉN Yeah, and it's not like a website needs programmers :/
Ell
Ell
14:50
yay I have a computer again
this is so liberating
Wait until you read the transcript
@Griwes yeah web devs don't really count as programmers anyways
It won't be as liberating
@Ell "liberating" is not the word to use here now
Xeo
Xeo
@JonClements An owner could still choose to escalate specific room flags
14:51
@Ell or better don't read the transcript, it'll give you cancer
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva did they freeze it?
Xeo
Xeo
Just always show room-local flags to owners, and add a button "open to all chat rooms" to the flag.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva That's a very defeatist attitude... and that is not going to happen on my watch
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Why so aggressive?
@JonClements No I am just caricaturing the situation.
14:51
@JonClements could I work as an intern for SE?
Don't ask me - I'm not staff :)
@JonClements Or just, IDK, let owners be like IRC operators. Let them actually moderate their chat room instead of making them be able to do... nothing.
@JonClements I mean, it's not like it's hard for the sever to check how many 10k users are in the room with the flag and if it's not enough warn those in other rooms, or randomly select them or anything
@Griwes well - it only took ~3 years to get kick/mute :)
@JonClements I am serious.
14:53
tl;dr SO is fucking shit at actually developing shit to help the community
Have a problem with owners not doing anything about stuff you don't like?
but hey, they are going to help duplicate the worlds documentation!
WELL TOUGH LUCK
Is balpha really the only developer on chat
Maybe implement some actual features so they can do that.
14:53
@Anastasiya as far as I know
Instead of the typical moderator-powered whining.
@JonClements I'd volunteer to help out (or hire me even)
@thecoshman SO literally doesn't care about chat or developing it any more
@JonClements let's not pretend, if the decision is made, you can't fight against it
I thought SO reputation was important on a CV :/
14:54
What is the chat software written in?
@edition lol
@TonyTheLion s/chat/SO
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ C# (I suppose? The entire SO stack is ASP.net IIRC)
I would gladly help with developing chat features, too, if SE would give me an US visa :3
please pass the message
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva there's developer(s) for chat?
pull the other one love
14:55
@Mr.kbok Lot of them work remotely
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva shh shh
Ell
Ell
okay I kinda missed what happened
no SE representative organisations in NZ :(
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Not necessarily
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Shush, it was an attempt to get a work visa, you fool.
14:55
@edition only telkitty's chicken.
Ell
Ell
we had a squabble about IRC and then cat removed himself from owner, then something about this being a private room?
@thecoshman Yeah, higherups/outvoted of course I couldn't stop any action. But I'd strongly oppose such action.
@Ell Just read the transcript.
@Ell tl;dr a fan and shit decided to attempt to occupy the same location
chat-bug#4092881409580 a user being de-ownered will stay italliced until refresh of page
Ell
Ell
@ThePhD I read it, and I can't see the drama really vOv
14:56
@Ell :D
The best I can do is completely agree the chat tooling is shite, and continue to try my best to work with the lounge and work out how you don't to have to put up with so much shit, and at the same time keep the noise down for other rooms
13
starring that because important
@JonClements thank you :)
Jon best smurf
@JonClements Without Lounge your job wouldn't be as interesting, admit it.
14:58
Oh - believe me... there's plenty interesting enough elsewhere :)
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva that doesn't explain what you are doing with that baboon
Ell
Ell
I can has edit access on game marmalade?
@Ell email
(as in give me yours)
No, but you can has cheeseburger
Ooo... marmalade... I got a nice jar the other day... hungry now...
14:59
I need a level of indirection on every single OpenGL function that gets loaded.
Or at least, save it in a variable
@Ell is there a github thing?
somewhere.
So I can get a proper callstack.
oh, the google doc
Ell
Ell
I requested access anyway

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