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05:10
@Mysticial does this also work in MSVC? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/7e4b453ca9109b04
@orlp It compiles.
With a warning though.
@Mysticial well, I meant that it compiles down to a popcount instruction
look at the bottom :)
@Mysticial also, what warning, that compiles perfectly with with -Wall -pendantic
Return value is int, but .count() return size_t which is larger than int on 64-bit.
05:14
that won't ever pose an issue, but I guess I can change the return type to size_t
It would be nice you could (quickly) obtain the index of the first (non-)zero bit in a bitset.
@orlp Under default x64, it doesn't generate popcount. (obviously)
lemme try with a higher option.
Oh, I had /arch:AVX enabled. So the answer is no. VS2015 is not smart enough.
I'd check ICC15, but its VS2015 integration is broken and I'm too lazy to invoke it via command line.
@Mysticial shame =/
guess I'm not getting rid of my intrinsics yet
I was happy to see that the VS2013 -> VS2015 upgrade had no problems other than a shit-ton of shadowing warnings I had to disable.
well, personally, I don't use VS at all tbh =/
05:19
But that upgrade broke the ICC integration. ICC15 update 4 is "supposed to" fix it, but it doesn't fix it enough to be usable.
MinGW often generates better code, and allows me to use almost the same toolchain for windows and linux
Also, no noticable performance regressions for either upgrade (VS2013 -> VS2015 and ICC15 update 1 -> update 4).
@Mysticial I never used ICC because of the rather restrictive licensing, how does it compare to mingw?
FWIW, the AMD build might've gotten a percent faster with VS2015. But I didn't do enough trial runs to rule out background variation.
@orlp I haven't used mingw since 2006.
@Mysticial why not?
05:21
But I hear that the AVX and is largely broken on Windows.
@orlp Never needed to. MSVC and ICC get the job done.
you've never even compiled your cruncher under mingw out of curiosity if it generates better code?
No.
And based on what I'm reading about the stack-alignment issues, there's no point in doing so.
For that matter, I've never tried it with Clang on Linux either. For the sole reason that GCC gets the job done.
@Mysticial FWIW, I've never seen VS generate better code than MinGW
(measurements since 2012-13)
the biggest draw for me personally to MinGW is the much, much better support for modern C++, though, not the quality of generated code
@Mysticial if you want to consider giving it a go I have a simple guide with a proper version of mingw here: github.com/orlp/dev-on-windows/wiki/Installing-GCC It's just unpack, add to path and ready to go (you can ignore the part about MSYS if you don't want to build autoconf libraries)
The other thing is, MSVC has a very nice UI that nothing else even comes close. ICC doesn't, but it integrates into MSVC as it if it was part of it.
And when I'm writing code, that matters much more than the performance of the developer binaries.
@Mysticial I use Vim, not an IDE :P
I disagree with the bundling of IDE / compiler anyway
05:30
For example, I disable multi-file IPO and LTCG in development.
Which cuts the link times from a minute to about a second.
And that matters when I'm making small changes and repeatedly recompiling.
@orlp I imagine it would be pretty hard to get the kind of interactive debugging that the MSVC provides if you separated the IDE/compiler.
@Mysticial Not at all, look at gdb for example
the only painful point about debugging for me is that there is no good graphical standalone frontend for gdb
but that has nothing to do with technical limitations - the information is there
Want a break point? Click the line number and it breaks there.
Want to step in/out/across functions? F9/F10/F11
@Mysticial gdb can break at line numbers, step in/out functions
Want the stack trace where you are? Click nothing. It's on the window at the bottom of the screen at all times for you to see.
gdb can do that too :P
05:36
Mouse over variables to get their value.
as I said, the information is there
but the debugger is not part of the compiler
the compiler only has to generate the symbol information
I believe that, but it doesn't have the UI usability that people like me enjoy.
Not everyone is a vim/command-line person.
@Mysticial I understand that, and I would love to see a graphical debugger frontend that doesn't suck for gdb
it probably exists already, but I haven't found it
It probably doesn't exist.
I'd consider Eclipse and Android Studio to be "good enough for me" for Java and Android.
But I have yet to find anything for C/C++ that isn't called Visual Studio.
The way I think of GDB is like a very smart person that can't communicate effectively. Yes all the information I ever need it there, but if I can't get it out efficiently, I'm going to hire someone else who might be dumber but has communication skills.
Why do you need a graphic debugger?
05:44
That said, when there are no alternatives... GDB is the only way to go in Linux.
@Mysticial I just did a quick google
and discovered nemiver
it looks really interesting
@Mysticial by the way, I'm not arguing against graphical debuggers - I definitely prefer them and want them too
Linux gdb debugger is good enough
all I'm trying to say, is that it's possible to build a frontend for gdb that does everything msvc does, without having to tightly couple the compiler with the editor
@StackedCrooked I don't completely disagree. But there are ways to do zero-overhead abstraction.
05:53
Yeah, esp in C++
3x duplication is also about the point that I will consider serious refactoring to get rid of the duplication.
For extremely fragile code that is hard to test, 2x is enough to make be de-dupe.
generally, any inlinable function nowadays is zero-overhead
if you want to be 100% sure of performance avoid abstracting with classes
I've cut out almost 100k LOC from my Pi program with TMP and force-inline.
@Mysticial how many LOC is your Pi program anyway?
@orlp Not quite. ICC's aliasing analysis breaks down through inlining.
MSVC and GCC don't have problems with that.
05:55
@Mysticial hrm, I never used ICC
@orlp There are ways to do that overhead free as well.
@orlp 250k right now. Prior to transitioning to C++11, it was 300k. I've cut out about 100k, but there's been about 50k of new code.
It's mostly about staying inline-able.
On the other hand, GCC always makes the worst choice for loop iterations in terms of iterating by index vs. iteration by pointer increment. This results in 2 - 3% slower code for my pi program than MSVC and ICC - both of which get it right.
Even worse, GCC can't be tricked to do the right thing. ICC and MSVC can be tweaked a bit, but usually to no benefit. They already get it optimal from the baseline.
@Mysticial always? are you implying there's a wrong ! somewhere in the GCC codegen?
@orlp "Always" might be a bit strong of a word. But there's a class of loops where it always seems to do the wrong thing.
As in, it increments 4 pointers rather than incrementing a single index and accessing indirectly.
MSVC and ICC, do two counters. One for the loop counter, and one for the pointer offsets.
With dirty hacks, both MSVC and ICC can be tricked down to incrementing only one variable, but that doesn't gain any speedup.
GCC always seems to do the 4 pointer increment thing regardless of what I do.
Anyways, I need to sleep.
06:09
@Mysticial good night
@StackedCrooked Meh. I'd rather say "use efficient abstractions".
Aka think before you code D:
06:32
morning
06:48
mernin
06:59
@MaiLongdong I have to ask, is longdong really your last name?
if so that's awesome :D
user1804599
Hello, world!
Backbone.js is piece of crap
@khajvah nothing that ends with .js is crap. It's all supercool stuff
They made it hard to divide the view components into smaller components to reduce the complexity.
I either have to write hacky stuff to glue them together or have big and bloated components.
I made a typing test application with javascript.
user1804599
07:13
Condolences.
user1804599
@khajvah no shit!
user1804599
Mutability sucks. From that we can conclude that Backbone sucks.
@khajvah Didn't find Backbone.js that bad
@Chad On the other hand, that's my first experience with front-end technologies. Maybe others are worse.
user1804599
I updated GTK and now all the icons are different.
07:16
@khajvah One thing that backbone does is it does give you a very basic framework to work with. You're pretty much in control of the whole view rendering with its dependecy on underscore.
user1804599
My favourite constant is 1.
@orlp No, the last name is Mai. Last name goes first in many Asian cultures.
@MaiLongdong so is your first name longdong?
user1804599
@MarcoA. Then why is their domain "slipknot1.com"?
user1804599
07:18
@orlp No, his first name is Cicada and his last name is Cicada.
@elyse they hired a javascript expert to do that
@Chad I am using _ templating engine. I should probably use facebook's React. That sounds better.
user1804599
XD
@khajvah Though backbone is a pretty good start. Its fun, and its pretty easy to get up and running fast.
@orlp Yes.
user1804599
07:18
You don't want to "get up and running fast".
@MaiLongdong ever get any comments?
I find it hilarious
No, why?
@elyse and because it's slipknot1
@orlp What's funny about it?
@MaiLongdong because dong is slang for penis
user1804599
07:19
You want to get up and running in a reasonable amount of time, then keep running fast in the long term.
@orlp Oh. I wasn't aware of that :s
@Chad Actually, if I used Angular or something like that, it would be faster, as it is one fully bloated framework.
user1804599
You can't do that if all of your program is based on mutating state that's referred to by hundreds of aliases.
With Backbone, I gotta write more stuff by hand, which is why I chose it.
@khajvah Only issue i've had with Backbone was with how it handles it event handling system.
07:21
@elyse Did you join to the community for women interesting in functional programming?
user1804599
Did you? No. So why would I?
user1804599
I'm hungry.
lol
@elyse Corporate world with its JavaScript consumed me, so I can't join.
user1804599
Just wait for Mill.
@elyse dont recommend you use C++ then ;)
user1804599
07:23
I never do. I'm not a sadist.
user1804599
Also, in C++ it's not that bad since values are often copied.
I have a feeling that nobody in this room likes C++.
user1804599
@StackedCrooked does.
@elyse Use Rust.
I use some C++ features, such as string handling and vectors. Although, I enjoy writing in C as well.
07:25
@edition Are you from 4chan/g/?
user1804599
@khajvah Rust requires too much thinking about stuff that has been automated for ages.
:24866923 lol no. It's just, I know of only one group of people(/g/) who enjoy C.
@elyse They made "zero-cost abstraction".
At high school, I thought C was better than Visual Basic.
user1804599
Eh, zero-cost at runtime maybe.
user1804599
07:30
(except not really since refcounting requires a lot of work)
user1804599
I prefer to strive towards zero-cost development.
@elyse I don't think there is much refcounting going on there. It's simple, you leave the scope, the thing gets destroyed.
@elyse But yeah, today's computers are fast enough to not care about that. Maybe it will be useful in embedded world.
user1804599
I couldn't give less of a shit about Rust.
@khajvah High performance environments in general
the references between objects are better defined in C++ than javascript.
07:33
isrustdeadyet.com
user1804599
It's like C++ but somehow even more incomprehensible.
user1804599
And rust-lang.org still guarantees thread-safety, lol.
@thecoshman What?
user1804599
user1804599
I almost forgot I opened that bug report.
07:38
Alright, back to the ugly truth (JavaScript)
@elyse Of course you've seen me before. You're rightfold, right?
@elyse Yeah, you started a fight and stopped giving shit about it.
user1804599
I do that often.
user1804599
@Morwenn YES!!!!!!!!
@elyse Well. I came on the lounge from time to time circa 2013.
user1804599
07:42
You can never truly leave.
rightfold comes on the lounge every night
and on many other things
user1804599
One day, Domagoj will come back.
@elyse momotapa truly left.
user1804599
Why is momotapa?
user1804599
Museum of Modern Tappas?
07:43
@elyse GNU/JavaScript programmer.
not sure if it happened in this sequence: i.imgur.com/AsdTcdD.jpg
user1804599
@khajvah lol
@khajvah oh I remember the shitstorm that had caused :3
@MaiLongdong You trolled my young and innocent soul.
good times
Mar 31 at 9:36, by khajvah
I just wasted few minutes of my life on GNU/javascript
07:46
yeah. I remember.
@elyse "Why"?
user1804599
call/cc is the most beautiful hack ever.
@elyse One of my nicks back when you had me plonked
A brilliant character. Very lovable.
user1804599
@fredoverflow I mean "what".
user1804599
@MaiLongdong ooh
07:52
@unordered_meow Can you search with it?
@ScottW everybody knows I'm hibernating
Oh. Elyse. Sexy
I wonder why autocorrect insisted on "seedy" instead
user1804599
It's not sexy.
The Giving rightfold
user1804599
Unlike your mother.
Reasons to use CentOS:
07:57
@Morwenn you should just share some music! I remember at the time tone you were one of the few with interesting musical taste :)
Rightfold wil recall
@sehe Oh, that's nice :)
hi bear
:)
But now I found a room where annoying people with music all day long is actually on-topic.
And I don't really remember what I shared in 2013. My musical tastes continued to evolve since that time.
user1804599
My musical taste is the best IMO.
@VermillionAzure remind me to goes you a book suggestion when I've finished it. Some h
*enlightening quotes to support the recommendation to :)
user1804599
user1804599
Also OoT OST.
Well, if we'te to share random things: youtube.com/watch?v=C5ATuxUnKqc&spfreload=10
too slow, I have to wait 10 minutes for the song to get up to speed
I need devastation sooner
08:03
@Morwenn Is that Bartek's mom sitting on a throne
@MaiLongdong Does she sing to breakcore too?
Also I only wanted to post the first song, not the full album. Too late to change that now .____.
@Morwenn Sounds like she would.
Summoning @Bartek for confirmation
user1804599
Bartekki Salmiakki.
Buttek Barnachebutt
08:11
@R.MartinhoFernandes now now, you know perfectly well that first 'and' shouldn't be there :P
Speaking of Bartek, Adobe also have their own text editor? Is it also an embedded chromium piece of shit?
Yep, chromium embedded.
@MaiLongdong It is written in JavaScript
RIP
@Prismatic You mean to fall back to a pattern-defeating quicksort instead of std::sort?
I don't get it, why would you choose to write a desktop application in JavaScript?
I don't get it, why would you choose to write a desktop application in C++
08:23
IKR
@CatPlusPlus purrformance
@thecoshman No, that's C.
no, C is purforman
[BUFFER OVERFLOW]
@fredoverflow it's STL by STL but not in STL or for STL, you suck
08:40
I have to do some hacks in order to have nested models, wtf! This is stupid.
@thecoshman I wrote "STL on STL", you stupid pirate skeleton.
Do they just write Hello World apps with this shit?
What's nested models
@fredoverflow yeah, "STL on STL" but it's not in STL, you suck
08:42
@CatPlusPlus Models that contain other models as data.
UGH
Figured out why some gitlab process kept dying from time to time.
Now it killed my Jenkins.
Fucking thing is on the way to eating up 5GB of memory.
RIP Jenkins.
I love it when a VM locks up :\
The box has 4GB RAM.
Fuck Ruby.
Gosh, is there anything Ruby that isn't a pile of shit. :<
Xeo
Xeo
08:45
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's called the "empty project"
@R.MartinhoFernandes Welcome to the world of "the user will have enough memory, we don't care about it at all".
@fredoverflow FAKE there were never any Matrix sequels.
@Xeo Still no due to rubby
Also uhhhh 4GiB? That's tiny.
@Griwes Oh, yes, it is.
08:46
Of all things I've programmed in my life.
@thecoshman What do you mean, "it's not in STL"? I never wrote something being "in STL". Read again: "STL on STL in VS 2015". Or do you mean STL is not in VS 2015?
Web development is by far the most boring thing I've ever experienced.
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
Is there a way to make it less boring?
Am I doomed?
Why is this such a snorefest.
@Rapptz I feel you bro.
08:47
@Rapptz Write your websites in Haskell.
It's an old Mac Mini that we had laying around.
@Griwes How would you care about it
@Griwes inb4 Bartek has an orgasm
@Griwes Nah, pretty sure the thing is leaking, which is not necessarily related to that.
@CatPlusPlus By not writing code in Java or Ruby vOv
08:48
Makes sense
@fredoverflow I mean it's not wrote in STL vOv
@R.MartinhoFernandes Gitlab unicorn workers are known to leak.
... you realise I am being silly...
There's a setting where you can tell Gitlab how frequently to kill them!
08:49
bytthon
@Griwes Oh, there is?
jabbascript
Tell me more :D
@Griwes lol
Many daemons have that, it's not necessarily related to known leaks
08:49
hello
damn.
It's mostly for leaks in code you can't do anything about, i.e. foreign native shit
@thecoshman You know the first STL is a person, right?
This Very Optimised Not Grr Java Code
@fredoverflow yes
08:50
@CatPlusPlus Just like the European immigration policy then
> GitLab has memory leaks.
gitlube
@MaiLongdong The UE immigration policy is like a coy whore
@thecoshman You're just trolling and/or trying to drive me mad for no reason, aren't you?
How can I pacman -Syu but ignore one package
08:50
ITT cosh trying to miscorrect Fred's correct grammar.
@fredoverflow :D
@Griwes lol yeah quite up front about it
IIRC there's an pacman ignore file or the like
@Griwes HAHAHAHA
Great, I have to download a third-party script for such a simple thing as nested models.
08:51
@R.MartinhoFernandes nothing to do with grammar
@R.MartinhoFernandes What's so funny about that
just, you know, "<foo> on <food>" why not also "in <foo>"?
@khajvah send help pls
@R.MartinhoFernandes Amazing, right? :D
08:52
> This is a robust way to handle memory leaks
@Columbo It's in their official docs.
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
robbutt
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, at least they acknowledge it!
@Columbo And the paragraph goes on and on with even more funnies.
@MaiLongdong Like this one.
08:52
@Griwes thus it is not a bug
rubby has shitty diagnostic tools
@Griwes Should be in an issue tracker not there.
I'm not surprised they can't track it
@R.MartinhoFernandes but that would be admitting it's an issue
Seriously, if your code is so shitty that you feel the need to write that crap in the docs, I'd hazard that it's not production-ready.
08:53
> One other thing that stands out in the log snippet above, taken from Gitlab.com, is that ‘worker 4’ was serving requests for only 23 seconds. This is a normal value for our current GitLab.com setup and traffic.
This is probably the funniest part.
@thecoshman Yeah, the style of the docs is pretty much pretending that there's no problem there.
don't even think this is technically documentation
seems to be a blogpost
tl;dr debugging is hard, we can't into it
0
A: Distinguishing between multiple exceptions of the same type

fredoverflowInstead of letting foo check its arguments, why not encode the bounded-ness in a new type? template<int bound> struct out_of_bounds { int value; }; template<int bound> class bounded_int { int value; public: bounded_int(int value) { if (value < 0 || value >= bound) thro...

WHERE IS MY INTERNET MONEY
;)
08:54
oh never mind
it's mirrored in the docs too
> We just wrote some new documentation on how Gitlab uses Unicorn and unicorn-worker-killer, available on doc.gitlab.com but also included below.
Yeah.
user1804599
@fredoverflow Pattern matching with guards rules.
@R.MartinhoFernandes because there isn't o_o
how are memory leaks not an issue
@thecoshman Having to kill yourself after 23 seconds due to memory leaks is not an issue? o.O
08:56
@Rapptz don't say that with such disdane (sp?), 'blog format' can sometimes make for rather nice documentation.
> We fight with the memory leaks once every while, see e.g. gitlab.com/gitlab-org... . But they are hard to reproduce; my anecdotal experience is you think you find one, fix it, deploy it, and nothing changes because there other leaks are still there.
It's not that much of an issue
Worse things happen in production systems
> Note: It's an example, please do not answer with bounded integers.
Sums up software really
user1804599
Fixing memory leaks is easy.
08:56
And you answer with bounded integers.
12 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Now it killed my Jenkins.
@Griwes stop saying issue, there is no issue o_o la la la can't hear you la la la no memory problems at all la la la
user1804599
Just restart the program with a cronjob.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ^
> Are the sidekiq memory leaks an entirely different beast than the unicorn leaks?
08:57
¬_¬ god damn you rightfold
For me it was sidekiq.
Also ruby has a garbage collector, no? xD
Nothing to do with leaks either.

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