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8:00 PM
@LucasHenrique one is module and the other is a function
 
@LucasHenrique import X in Python imports a module
 
@LucasHenrique Wait. Were you aggravated by this exchange? Because I've just read all of it and people were discussing quite civil and taking you seriously. Probably more seriously than deserved.
 
When you import a module, all functions in this module become available in your program.
 
@milleniumbug And the rest. But why bother, mbug?
 
@sehe yes
 
8:03 PM
@milleniumbug so basically what I said? a module is just a function (or group of functions) that you can plug into another project so you don't need to constantly reinvent the wheel.
 
The answers were kind of cruel
 
kind of like how you can add extensions to Visual Studio to check your code formatting
 
@milleniumbug so what's the difference between namespace versus module?
 
@NateKerkhofs No. "just a big function that calls other functions" is wrong
 
@LucasHenrique Oh well. I think people were truly trying to help. You can't learn if you don't want to hear you didn't know a thing or were wrong about it
 
8:05 PM
yeah, maybe that part isn't accurate. but the part about it being something you develop to reuse is on the mark, right?
 
@LucasHenrique Honestly, they very helpful. If you think that was cruel, you've never met a bunch of Random Internet Dudes being cruel.
 
@NateKerkhofs ? ¹
 
@NateKerkhofs ? ²
 
:D
 
@sehe I said 2 things about a module: 1. they're a function or group of functions; 2. they're designed to be reused
 
8:06 PM
runescape = farmland
wtf?
 
Is Nate Cinch?
 
I do not know who this Cinch person is, honestly
 
Nate, go eat some monads
 
I've never even been in this chat room before
 
@milleniumbug VermillionAzure is
 
8:07 PM
@nabijaczleweli That's a spin on running gag "is X a cicada?"
 
@LucasHenrique FUCK YEAH YFCCHCHCCHC
sorry, got a little excited there brah.
> each of a set of standardized parts or independent units that can be used to construct a more complex structure, such as an item of furniture or a building.
 
@NateKerkhofs These guys are very smart and funny. Sometimes annoying :P.
 
all I wanted to ask here was that question a few hours ago about how to uninstall VS2013
 
@NateKerkhofs Add or remove programs --> VS2013
 
8:08 PM
@NateKerkhofs Cinch is @VermillionAzure's old account. He got question banned and made a new one.
 
@NateKerkhofs only 2 is slightly on point. And then you rambled something about code formatting extensions
 
^
and honestly, most code should be designed to be re-used ;)
2
 
@DonLarynx I tried that before, and it didn't remove most of the cruft that came along with the install, like SDKs
 
@milleniumbug +1 for insightful
 
@NateKerkhofs Then remove the SDKs manually
 
8:10 PM
@LucasHenrique The problem with existing approach (header files + linking) to importing stuff to your project in C++ is that it's a.) complicated b.) error-prone c.) makes compiling programs slow d.) lots of abstraction leaks e.) assumes compilers made in the 70's
 
Woah.
 
@milleniumbug so the concept is the same as Python one
 
Google Chrome has its own task manager.
 
@DonLarynx why try to remove it manually if you can just run the installer again with /uninstall/force?
 
Welcome to 5 years ago
 
8:11 PM
@LucasHenrique Not only Python, most modern languages have modules.
 
@NateKerkhofs yes, why?
Seems to me you should be able to answer that one
 
Xeo
hahah, managed to get back into the top-level game before they passed 3820
 
@milleniumbug edit+ctrl+z lol
 
@LucasHenrique yes
 
@sehe I don't understand the question
 
Xeo
8:12 PM
kekeke, riding the wave
 
@Xeo My game is at level 270 or so :(
 
Xeo
2791 :D
 
@sehe @milleniumbug so it's really a shame that C++17 won't have modules isn't it?
 
@NateKerkhofs And you don't even give me a way to understand which question chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/17548475#17548475
 
why the shit did me re-use message get starred. cuz i pulled a captain obv?
 
Xeo
8:13 PM
@LucasHenrique That's what Hitler thinks, at least.
 
@LucasHenrique Even Hitler realized this rather immediately
 
@LucasHenrique Yes, we'll be stuck with slow compile times :(
 
Xeo
@sehe slowbear
 
@sehe this question
 
well Fastbuild/Incredibuild can help but... modules would be great
 
8:14 PM
@sehe that's why I started to talk about modules, the Hitler video
 
I think there was some kind of misunderstanding, and if you read through the chatlog, I'm sure that you can figure out what went on
 
@NateKerkhofs Well. You were having trouble getting the stuff removed. Now imagine you didn't have the original installer handy. What would you (need to) do?....
@LucasHenrique Ok
 
@sehe I had the installer handy, actually. still was in my downloads folder from 3 months ago
 
@NateKerkhofs I didn't ask a question. You did.
 
Pretty funny, indeed
 
8:16 PM
@NateKerkhofs Ikr. Still, you "Why would you do ..." as-if rhetorically. That's very very ironic seeing that you were looking for ways to uninstall the cruft.
 
@sehe and if you don't have the uninstaller handy, it's trivially easy to download from whatever source you originally got it
 
^ objective fact. Always. And also very efficient.
 
@sehe my point is: why try and manually uninstall all the cruft that comes along when you install it, if you can also just run 1 file that uninstalls all the cruft along with it
 
Why go to a car repair shop, if you can just buy better cars that don't have problems.
 
@LucasHenrique namespaces solve the problem of "if you import something, everything gets into the global namespace so you can get name conflicts", but they don't provide any mechanism for actually importing stuff. So you're stuck with header files.
 
8:18 PM
@sehe that's different. you got to a car repair shop because it's usually cheaper to get something fixed than it is to get an entirely new car
 
similarly, running 1 file is easier and less labor intensive than removing all that cruft manually, possibly missing something
 
I don't find this very useful
I can't still understand. Damn. I'll read some articles about it.
 
@NateKerkhofs So. "Why would anyone go to a car repair shop"?
 
@sehe @sehe if it's cheaper to repair your car than it is to replace it
 
8:22 PM
Precisely. You answered your own question.
Keep in mind "cheaper" means all kinds of subjective things here. If you don't want to spend a lot of time chasing this (not very well documented) solution, you can just do what you already know works. That's cheaper for some.
 
I'm starting to get confused. in your analogy, what's the "car repair shop" and what's the "buy better cars"?
@sehe I assume that if something is on SO, it's well documented enough
 
My point is "Why would anyone XXX" was pretentious at best and a fallacious use of rhetorics at best.
@NateKerkhofs Then why were you here? To complain about how things were way too well documented on SO?
 
Xeo
lolz. now I got one cat sitting on the far left of the windows, and the other sitting on the far right, both looking out into the garden
 
@LucasHenrique See that for example Python modules implicitly provide namespacing - if you import a module X with import X, all names imported from the module are in namespace X, so you can access them with X.a_function().
 
@sehe I asked that question originally because I thought the SO question, because it was closed, wouldn't have an answer
 
8:25 PM
@Xeo In linux, those would be a cat and a tac :)
@NateKerkhofs It was apparently closed after being answered. Anyhoops, next time you come into the lounge with a question, while sitting on the already-answered SO question link, please share that link :)
 
@milleniumbug Yeah, I tought that. So, if that is, what's so difficult about implementing it on C++?
 
@sehe It was closed for being off-topic, which I found confusing, since even according to the very text of the "off-topic" reason, it was on-topic
 
@NateKerkhofs This is your question:
1 hour ago, by Nate Kerkhofs
Question: is there a tool like the Visual Studio 2010 removal tool for Visual Studio 2013?
You didn't come here asking why that SO question was closed
 
These new DNX-powered project types in VS2015 are confusing
 
@sehe classic X-Y problem. what I should have asked was "can you uninstall VS 2013, including everything that comes along, in one go"
 
8:28 PM
@Xeo you have two cats? o.o since when? i thought Taiga was your only master
 
but instead, I thought "hey, there's a tool for VS 2010, maybe there's one for 2013"
 
Since you didn't pay attention
 
@LucasHenrique Several reasons: a.) there's lot of disagreement on how specific things should work b.) Nobody knows how they should interact with older features (after all, all the stuff from the last 40 years piles up) c.) Nobody really knows how to make them work with templates (which are the main motivation for introducing modules in C++)
 
@LucasHenrique macros don't obey namespaces, but greatly affect configuration so some need exoprting.
 
@CatPlusPlus I thought it was a cool new toy, but its just webstuffs :(
 
8:30 PM
Actually not really
But I can't figure out where the assembly ends up being
 
@milleniumbug "c.) Nobody really knows how to make them work with templates (which are the main motivation for introducing modules in C++)" - can you give me an example?
 
> I'm so sorry for this sethbling,but watching your channel makes me feel too freaking stupid...unsubscribed
That
 
user1804599
how to make a video game
 
Timing
 
user1804599
help
 
8:32 PM
@sehe I want to make a clone of that some day. That AI is so cool
 
@rightfold don't you like Haskell anymore? :)
 
Oh well
 
@rightfold Crush DVDs of good films (the "video" part) and fill a game (tabletop, for example) box with it
 
wow i cant believe its 4PM already, the fuck did i do all day
 
Here it's almost 6 pm
 
8:35 PM
@Borgleader Do you want a detailed report, or just the main lines?
@LucasHenrique In most places on the world it's different times still
 
Xeo
What kind of fucked up timezones do you guys live in, with half-hour offsets?!
 
@Xeo too lazy to write 4:30
 
@LucasHenrique templates are essentially code generators, so the best you can currently do is to pre-parse the templates and have the parse tree dumped in the file (that's how precompiled headers work, but they have serious limitations)
 
8:37 PM
@Borgleader lel
 
So it's too difficult to get templates working with modules
(Am I right?)
 
@milleniumbug Technically PCH don't typically just contain the AST. They will contain the in-memory structures representing e.g. symbol tables etc.
You're right that sane compilers (no, #msvc, you can't play) also store the AST of templates there to avoid reparsing
@LucasHenrique Yes. For exactly the same reason that templates go in headers
503
Q: Why can templates only be implemented in the header file?

MainIDQuote from The C++ standard library: a tutorial and handbook: The only portable way of using templates at the moment is to implement them in header files by using inline functions. Why is this? (Clarification: header files are not the only portable solution. But they are the most convenien...

 
8:52 PM
I suddenly got a question, not related to the subject
 
We believe you
So. Who can explain wth a "Vine" is anyways. YT always wants me to watch "vines". IDGI
 
How was the first program written?
 
With dipswitches (... so tempting)
 
@LucasHenrique Direct machine instructions
 
user1804599
It's where moronic hipsters post moronic two-second videos.
 
8:53 PM
@Xeo how the hell were you making so much money per clicks o.O
 
The first program was actually hardware. And it wasn't even ever programmed. Until a century later, that is
 
Xeo
Boss, stack Raining Gold, click to hell and back = profit
 
oh, i have 1 raining gold thing
 
Xeo
I just had one, with 16 Raining Gold stacks, where each click brought you 8 million
 
ill use it next time
 
8:54 PM
@rightfold I got this far. Why is it called "vine" though (inb4 google)
A vine (Latin vīnea "grapevine", "vineyard", from vīnum "wine") in the narrowest sense is the grapevine (Vitis), but more generally it can refer to any plant with a growth habit of trailing or scandent (that is, climbing) stems or runners. The word also can refer to such stems or runners themselves, for instance when used in wicker work. In the United Kingdom, the term "vine" applies almost exclusively to the grapevine. The term "climber" is used for all climbing plants. == Growth forms == Certain plants always grow as vines, while a few grow as vines only part of the time. For instance, poison...
Very. Helpful.
 
user1804599
LOL
 
@sehe that's what I expected
 
@sehe afaict vine is instagram for videos or something, theyre limited to a few seconds.
 
@LucasHenrique I think the coolest stories are Lady Lovelace and Babbage
 
In mathematics, the Euclidean algorithm, or Euclid's algorithm, is an efficient method for computing the greatest common divisor (GCD) of two numbers, the largest number that divides both of them without leaving a remainder. It is named after the ancient Greek mathematician Euclid, who first described it in Euclid's Elements (c. 300 BC). It is an example of an algorithm, a step-by-step procedure for performing a calculation according to well-defined rules, and is one of the oldest numerical algorithms in common use. It can be used to reduce fractions to their simplest form, and is a part of many...
 
8:55 PM
@Borgleader Ah. Instagram insta-clarified. Thanks
@milleniumbug That's a different question though. And way older algorithms exist. It just so happens that Euclid's is often referred to as an "algorithm"
 
Funniest vine I've seen thus far
 
WTH
 
Nota bene: vine doesn't work with Flashblock
 
> Let's Get Crazy For New Years!
 
Yeah. I can read. How does that help :)
 
8:59 PM
It's a very funny loading indicator yes
 
Wouldnt load in FF for me, I thought it was a local thing, worked fine in chrome
 
wow ctype_base::blank not defined ?
 
@sehe Thought maybe you hadn't noticed the title. Anyway I find that gif vine funny.
 
It is.
Is there really no sound on these? Because they all seem to have people speaking/singing and it's rather awkward without sound/subtitles
 
It's disabled by default
 
9:02 PM
Found the hidden thingie
 
how come?
 
By choice.
 
@sehe Care enough to elaborate?
 
If you're a programmer and you have to ask why "sound [on vines, ed.] is disabled by default" I don't think explaining helps
 
wow
 
9:12 PM
I bet I didn't get your question. But then, really it's you who should be elaborating?
 
I now realize the power of the reply button.
8
 
Actually. "Why" is an interesting question. But you asked "how come". Well. Someone made it that way :)
@Veritas hehe
 
@Veritas don't
@Veritas abuse
 
We tell everyone regularly
 
@Veritas it
 
9:13 PM
Huh.
 
hi sehe
 
please no more
 
@DonLarynx He didn't say "power of plinking". He said "power of the reply button".
 
> Plinking refers to informal target shooting done at nonstandard targets such as tin cans, glass bottles, and balloons filled with water.
 
How the hell that equates to attention whoring... It's interesting what goes on inside the head of a Don
 
9:14 PM
or not :P
 
More likely yes
 
i like plonking on the weekends
 
Me too. Done
@Veritas Care to elaborate on what to elaborate on?
 
@sehe btw, i use variants too now. yay for being modern?
 
> NCrunch, as a somewhat unsung benefit, almost absent-mindedly gathers performance metrics as it continuously executes my tests, and highlights slow lines of code with a different coloured marker.
 
9:17 PM
idk why im replying to such an old message, oh well
 
@Borgleader Yup. I'd be happy with some language level sugar, but variant are the right conceptm and available now, at least
 
@sehe I thought you were replying to my question. In any case it was just ideone being sucky af: ideone.com/5HUxib
 
Jul 6 '14 at 18:58, by Borgleader
@AaronKyleKilleen Public service announcement
COME ON
@Veritas When was I replying to what question.
You failed to link either. There's zero context to deduce anything from
That code snippet doesn't ring any bells
@Borgleader That's not old. And you were just happy to share, I guess
@Veritas FU. You just linked it as a reply to a completely unrelated message. You're trolling. (Did you even look at the gif)
 
well, that's it
 
:3
 
9:21 PM
I got my shit backed up, my install usb stick ready
time for this machine to bite it.
goodbye old girl, you served me well for five and a half years.
 
That project doesn't move along that quickly since I mostly work on it in the train to/from work (when I'm not too tired)
@Puppy See you on the other side
 
@Borgleader Which project?
 
ze language
 
@Puppy Hard core. No machine of mine surived 5 years. Well. Not without reinstall (which I reckon you're talking about)
 
@sehe No, my GPU failed and I'm replacing most of the inside.
 
9:23 PM
@Veritas So, then, "why"?
@Puppy Oh that. Took you ~2 weeks?
 
@sehe Parts took a while to arrive.
 
Oh yeah. That. I remember now
I'm still sitting on 3 new SSDs to be installed in 2 PCs. But I have too few hurries
 
@sehe You weren't. I just said that std::ctype_base::blank was not defined, and you wrote "It is" below, answering to Borgleader. I read that wrong.
 
I should replace my 3yr old SSD with a new one, the one I currently is always full (128GB is not what you can call big)
 
@Veritas Wow. Now I get it. Thanks.
@Borgleader Yup that's my mission too. Replacing 128GiB with 2x256 and replaceing 60GiB with 1x128GiB
@Borgleader 128GiB is very big, by the way, unless you run (a) Windows (b) Virtual Machines or (c) Windows Virtual Machines
 
9:27 PM
I'm on windows
with 3 versions of VS (i would uninstall the first 2 but i cant do that without having to reformat har har har)
 
Poor you. The reason my 128GiB is "full" is mainly because I don't want to actually wipe my Win8 paritition. Though I used it about 4x in 2 years
@Borgleader Hehe, you notice that this topic has been discussed ~1 hour ago, right?
 
are you using 2x256GB instead of 1x512 because its cheaper? or becaise RAID?
 
@CatPlusPlus You still doing the thing with Steam invites?
 
@sehe i didnt, but its been mentioned many times in the lounge.
 
@Borgleader Because it gives better flexibility and MBTF for ~same price. Not RAID (obviously, I think) SATAIII should be ~saturated anyways
@LucasHenrique stumbled on this slightly related article just now What is code
 
9:31 PM
@sehe i meant raid in redundancy config, or wtv its called.
 
That'd be mirroring for 2x256 then. No, my SSDs are for speed, not reliability
Not saying they're not, but they're simply too expensive for my taste to mirror/parity stripe
My fileserver though mirrors everything.
 
user1804599
This IRC library is really nice.
 
It's 5 disks, 1 for the OS (sits relatively unused) and 2x[2x3TB] mirrors
@rightfold Is it Rapptz's?
 
user1804599
haha
 
I think that article is secretly written by Cinch
 
user1804599
9:34 PM
… QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
ERROR :Closing Link: … (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015/06/13 23:31:09 EOF
<nil>
panic: runtime error: invalid memory address or nil pointer dereference
 
very nice library
 
user1804599
Yeah. :)
 
There's a ton of Javascript idle games that use base64 for save data and that bothers me. I keep thinking it would be useful to have like a base3500 (ab)using unicode.
 
Useful for what
 
@CatPlusPlus [steamid] nabijaczleweli
 
9:37 PM
3 TB disks! Look at mister moneypants. I'm still happy with my 128MB WD caviar.
 
3TB is nothing
 
user1804599
wrong
 
user1804599
0 is nothing.
 
I eventually want a NAS on which I can do regular backups. Havent gotten around to building one yet. I also want/need to buy a UPS. Apparently APC is the thing to get?
 
@CatPlusPlus Thanks!
 
9:39 PM
@TBohne ermmm. What is the gain? Just use binary then
@rightfold also wrong (but less so)
 
@sehe IE9 doesn't have easy support for binary via javascript
 
@Borgleader Yes. Is what I use too
 
user3790646
Hello
 
@TBohne And do you care to answer the question too?
@AndreyErick hi
 
@AndreyErick 'Fternoon
 
user3790646
9:40 PM
Is Lightness back?
 
@TBohne Or basewhateverthousand
 
user1804599
@sehe ?
 
@sehe I once tried to send a save from one computer to another via a facebook message to myself, but it couldn't because the message had too many characters.
 
Xeo
lolz. I knew Taiga likes visiting me while I'm on the toilet. And suddenly, there was Stella too.
 
0 is not nothing. It's a number, for starters. And a very special one at that
 
9:41 PM
I calculated that there was only like 200 bytes of data, and that particular game's "saves" were closer to 4k
 
@sehe Colleague has one of those too, he says he never buys anything else. I need to find a store where I can get some guidance as to which model to get.
 
sbi
Just for @sehe, a picture of the puppy diving for his ball. (What, me? I'm just doing my duty.)
 
The entire point of base64 is being 7-bit-safe
 
@TBohne And what the gain of base3500 be? Why do you reckon base64 exists? What would be the difference between binary and base3500 in practice?
 
9:42 PM
@sbi Thanks
 
sbi
You are wery velcome.
 
@sehe I just calculated the savings would only be 50%. For some reason I expected more. Nevermind then.
 
sbi
30 mins ago, by Veritas
I now realize the power of the reply button.
@Veritas I'd ask if that was true, but your name prevented this.
 
It's not a compression scheme
 
@CatPlusPlus it's hard to do a compression scheme in a language that doesn't do binary data
 
9:44 PM
@TBohne Do you think base3500 (say in UTF8) is more or less efficient than binary? Does it have the same problems? (hint: less; yes).
TL;DR If you can transfer arbitrary data, use all the bits. Don't fuck around using unneeded text-oriented character encodings
 
Pleasantly surprised, git add -A realized i moved files and didnt do pairs of added/deleted.
 
@TBohne Okay. Javascript as well as JSON support UTF8. You have a point if you're stuck with those tools
@Borgleader That's what it's for, actually
 
Not really
It can detect renames even if you do add/remove separately
 
@sehe no, I didn't have that misconception. I wanted to bypass character limits, not byte limits.
 
Or even if you don't do a rename
 
9:46 PM
@CatPlusPlus Yup. And the -A detects the deletions
 
Bit of a red herring though since you have to index the deletions anyway, and doing rm --cached is the same
 
so apparently 2014's libstdc++ does not support ctype_base::blank
 
@CatPlusPlus Doesn't make it different
@Veritas I'm not terribly surprised. Okay. That's annoying :)
 
Also there are jabbascript zlib implementations and probably some other things too
 
It'll be interesting to see how these encode into JSON though
 
9:48 PM
@TBohne No, you want to use wrong tool for wrong purpose :v
 
@sehe Well it is an almost insignificant change so I can see how it went unnoticed.
 
Don't assume such things.
It's very very hard for a thing like that to "go unnoticed". More like un-prioritized
And yes, if it was planned, then it was untested. And C++'s standard library has a good track record for delivering things with minimal (or apparently absent) testing
 
Could be. Well better late than never I guess.
 
@sehe This made me curious, "delivering things with minimal (or apparently absent) testing" . Examples perchance?
 
@sehe IDE don't hurt me
 
9:59 PM
@CaptainGiraffe The whole CTP program is thinly veiled public testing services :)
 

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