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12:01 AM
no seriously, hello is great for everything
 
"Dear individual to whom it may or may not concern"
 
my concern would autodecrease to 0 after reading that
 
Uh.
So, I got Catch.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Sup.
 
12:07 AM
And it fails to build because I use /W4 and /Werror.
> warning C4100: 'tag' : unreferenced formal parameter
Fucking hell.
 
should be really easy to fix no?
 
Hahaha /W4
Not even MS uses /W4
 
Yeah.
@CatPlusPlus MS doesn't use /Wall, that's for certain, considering Windows.h craps itself with that warning level.
Although, it's weird.
inline bool isReservedTag( std::string const& tag ) {
    return TestCaseInfo::None && tag.size() > 0 && !isalnum( tag[0] );
}
That's the function.
I mean, tag is clearly referenced.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I remember stdlib in 2010 or 2012 raising warnings with /W4
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Well, it's in an always-unevaluated path, I guess?
Does None evaluate to false?
 
12:10 AM
@Xeo Probably.
It's equal to 0.
So, is that a catch bug or...?
 
Disable warnings for the header
VC should get -isystem some day
 
@CatPlusPlus 2013 as well. Also std::steady_clock generates warnings with /W3 IIRC
 
Now, I wonder how I should setup my tests. Should I shove them in a separate project?
I can't just do the CATCH_CONFIG_MAIN thing because then I'll get two mains. I could always have two configs, but I don't like it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel yeah, I'm getting that too. void destroy(pointer p) {p->~T();} warning C4100: 'p' : unreferenced formal parameter
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yes
 
12:15 AM
Oh well. Time to do the configuration dance.
NEW PROJECT GO
I think I'll do property sheets first.
 
Opera 27 gave up and doesn’t load tabs. Not just web stuff, even the downloads tab won’t show anything.
 
is pizza round
 
@LucDanton People use a browser that isn't Chrom[e|ium] or FF?
 
it isn't, right? it's circular
round = 3D space round
 
also means I can’t tweak the settings, since they are displayed in a tab
 
12:23 AM
@Columbo Chromem?
 
Have you guys tried ZMQ? I got a job where I have an offline data that I used to process using producer/consumer where there either the consumer or producer is faster. If the producer is faster looks like ZMQ will just overflow?
 
@Borgleader Chrome-melancholic, ye
 
@AlexM. I mean, round can reference either a circle-like object or a sphere-like object.
 
yeah pizza was too confusing, I'm using oranges instead
those are most definitely round
 
@AlexM. naw
The wheels on the bus don’t go circular and circular.
 
12:25 AM
Or a cylindrical one.
 
is it normal for an AI to consider that fruits are edible
AIs don't eat
why am I asking myself these questions at 4AM
 
@AlexM. y u no sleep D:
 
Because otherwise you wouldn't be asking them.
 
you must be a cylon /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
Its like 7pm
 
12:27 AM
Maybe as refreshment? Or for fun, and they like taunting trees and plants as they eat them.
 
@Borgleader I'll sleep in a bit
it's annoying that it's so late
I'm trying to come up with a function to do this
3 hours ago, by Alex M.
and then trying to see in which template they fit best in an attempt to guess what those things are exactly
and I wanna do pretty graphs in matlab
 
Xeo
Damn, I wanted to code today
Didn't have time to do it, again
 
I did have time, tonight.
it was fun doing some macro magic
 
I just found a porn with the title "She's maid to play"
 
> The problem seems specific to users of Windows N.
._.
 
12:32 AM
makes sense
 
Enough internet for... well, this hour
 
only users looking for problems would use Windows Nope
 
--with-feature:"mse-h264-support"=off does the trick
 
wth...
 
@AlexM. I may just be running a regular Windows with WMP disabled, I don’t remember.
Oh it does say 'N'.
Apparently disabling the H.264 stuff can in turn cause problems with HTML5 videos or the like. Not seeing anything on my end so far though.
why software so bad ._.
 
12:36 AM
@LucDanton "The N editions of Windows 7 have all the features that normally come with each individual Windows 7 edition, except for Windows Media Player 12 and related programs" windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/…
 
Well if HTML5 videos use H264 i dont find that surprising?
 
I know. I have one.
 
Hmm. GetFileTime is saying the createtime, accesstime, and modifiedtime of all files checked are 0x01d0a570a061a252. That doesn't seem right.
....that's now.
 
Dota 2 on Source 2 dota2.com/reborn/part1
2 + 2 = 4
if we decrease 1 from 4 we get 3
left 4 dead 3 confirmed
 
@AlexM. 2hardcore4me, ill keep playing HotS
 
12:41 AM
@AlexM. The playstyle graph looks interesting
 
12:55 AM
> and the engine that powers the game has been fully replaced
I hate it when they say that.
 
@AndyProwl psst, he loved that video and even played it for others at work.
 
Here, "they" refers to the entire game industry.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well you better turn off your internet, E3 is about to start, and you'll hear a lot more of that :P
 
I mean, no, they did not "fully replace" the engine, just like this year's new car model uses a lot of parts from the previous year's model.
 
No effect when I click on the 'fuck off' button on the opt-out page ._.
 
1:04 AM
I don't even have that page
Night all
 
apple watches ads everywhere, probably because of the sagging sales figure
 
@sehe night bear
 
Nope, no apple watch for me, I am using that extra $400-$500 to buy an ultralight sleeping bag because I am poor ... and I love overnight bushwalking/hiking especially the hard ones
 
ugh
it's so damn hard to understand all this stats stuff
 
soon my bushwalking gears would be worth thousands of dollars alone because everything is ultralight (except boots which will be high quality leather ones)
@VermillionAzure what stats stuff
 
1:13 AM
@chmod711telkitty Given a list of scalars for given samples, use an algorithm to distinguish outlying samples based on an outlier-resistant z-value based on the median and median absolute deviation
 
lol, it's the wording that's hard to understand
 
not too hard. Until I need to deal with file formatting and aggregation with R's vector/matrix types.
@chmod711telkitty No, that's the easy version
That's what I wrote that's understandable to me.
 
2:00 AM
Woop woop test setup done.
 
but
this room is dead
 
This room is asleep.
Not the same thing.
 
This room is distracted.
 
Most regulars are Europeans, so of course they're gonna be asleep at this hour.
 
@EtiennedeMartel oh well.
Unfortunately I'm 11 hours behind everyone else
Oh sorry more like 13 or 14
@EtiennedeMartel aren't you?
wait E3? starting?
 
2:05 AM
@VermillionAzure I'm from Canada. It's 22:00 here.
 
@EtiennedeMartel oh no wonder the french
sorry
I'm just in the tailing end of my workday right now
yeah this job is frustrating
 
2:31 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Oooh we have the same time zone.
 
@Nooble Hi
 
@VermillionAzure Hi.
 
@Nooble Koaladian
???
 
IDGI.
 
@Nooble Koala + Canadian ==> LIT
 
2:33 AM
Ahh.
Nah I'm from New York.
 
@Nooble Ah.
Which borough?
Kings? Girlhatten? LeBlonx? Harlem?
 
Queens.
My school is in harlem, who knows, maybe I'll get shot one day.
 
sorry I'm kind of frustrated today work is frustrating
@Nooble oh you're still in high school?
or college?
 
Dude I'm 14.
 
@Nooble oh that's funny
I just assume everyone here is like 21+
 
2:36 AM
Most people here are.
 
@Nooble maybe not
I'm not
 
Interesting.
 
@Nooble Well let's see...
I'm not, Rapptz isn't, you're not, TheBlob is not...
and there's a few others
I'm probably the oldest of you all though
 
All?
 
@Nooble the four of us in that category, disregarding future additions
 
2:40 AM
I think you can check someone's age in their SE network profile.
 
@Nooble Oh right, most people are honest on here.
I tend to usually not post my age. But then again I stopped giving anything recently.
 
You can try averaging the ages of people who frequent here.
But you'd have to make a list, which is hard.
 
@Nooble I don't really care too much.
 
Oh ok.
 
I do care about some of the amazing people here though
 
2:42 AM
Don't forget amazing koalas.
 
3:11 AM
@Nooble yup
working
 
4:07 AM
@Nooble or simply poll those active and use statistics
@VermillionAzure there's quite a large number of people on SE over 130 years old though
 
I saw a fox hunting a squirrel.
Hi.
 
@VermillionAzure sbi?
@VermillionAzure except El, yes
 
Morning.
 
4:36 AM
Almost @ lockup stage ...
Planning for the frame inspection next week
 
Hi guys
I have a doubt
i want to get Updates of total information from mysql database. like count of msg what i sent. msgs, total no of users added to me.
i know concept called timers
it can call function at perticular period.
problem here i found is
if more no of users increases then process is getting slow..
is there any new concept to make it faster
and faster
 
4:52 AM
@Chickenturtle I think you have misunderstood. This is a chatroom. If you have a question, you should go to the "Ask a question" page: stackoverflow.com/questions/ask
 
i am developing in cpp
 
@Chickenturtle Also read this before submitting: stackoverflow.com/help/how-to-ask
@Chickenturtle that's great. We don't develop here.
 
@TBohne k bro
 
5:37 AM
@Chickenturtle And we have our rules, as stated in the side bar.
 
6:32 AM
Hey guys, I'm baaaa-aacck!
Man, it's been years!
@Chickenturtle /usr/bin/cpp?
 
6:56 AM
@Potatoswatter Hey, good to see you again!
 
I'm more involved in ISO these days. I attended Urbana and I'm planning on Kona.
 
propose something cool
 
7:11 AM
Movable initializer lists, updated std::function, and generalized lifetime extension are slated… I'm basically making this my job this year
 
I didn't like some of your proposals if I'm being honest
 
Are you always so vague when you're honest?
 
Usually.
The generalised lifetime extension I remember disliking.
 
Well, I'm pretty much looking for as much review as possible. Would've asked here if I could.
 
It's been a long time.
 
7:15 AM
What about it?
 
Since I looked at it though.
Like I said, been a long time.
Link the paper?
 
oh funny we ran into this issue earlier this week
 
The committee was fairly receptive. Really they only complained that it doesn't provide for encapsulation of export-decorated functions, doesn't describe how it interacts with virtual overrides, etc.
The solution is to add export into the type system, which ratchets up the complexity. But the issues are all addressed nicely.
 
better to use another keyword rather than abuse this one
good luck with that though
 
7:20 AM
Any bikeshed suggestions? Any recollection of your earlier objection?
 
It still gives me the meh feeling.
Like it's complicating things to cover up an issue
pitfall might be a better word rather than issue
Like e.g. adaptors could have been better designed to not dangle like that
 
It does open up new programming techniques. You can use it to return a subobject of a hidden larger return value.
I think it can be used to implement initializer_list without custom compiler hooks.
Would the proposal be more compelling if it described more of that sort of thing?
 
I think showcasing how it helps std::initializer_list without 'magic' would swoon people
 
If someone passes out and hits their head I could get sued.
 
re: bikeshedding not really sure
export was kinda used in linkage related contexts
so seeing it used with lifetime is kind of weird
plus I think export is actually being used by the modules proposal
yep
module-interface:
export { exported-declaration-seq }
 
7:38 AM
export was, in practical terms, never used. I'm open to suggestions.
My original proposal used punctuation, namely the syntax for a pointer to a reference: const & *, && *, etc. Richard Smith suggested return instead, because he was considering a similar proposal.
I thought return was confusing because it's too close to home. export is better because it has fewer preconceived associations with function implementation.
 
but it might be used for modules :v
their usage also makes 100% sense to me
 
Modules is never going to touch parameter declarations. There's no conflict.
 
register?
it's getting deprecated & removed in C++17 lol
 
How is that teachable? There's no registry. The information/referent is getting "exported" from the parameter to the result.
IMO register is too useful as an identifier and it should be deallocated… but fat chance.
 
Hm. I don't know.
Bikeshedding's hard.
 
7:49 AM
Fortunately it's not really my problem. Implementation is.
 
8:05 AM
@Potatoswatter How safe is the feature? Just taking a quick glance, it doesn’t say. I think it’s important to say upfront somewhere in the motivation/rationale. Without knowing if it’s a superior alternative to the status quo (which I can’t figure out easily on my own), my knee jerk reaction would be to dismiss it as 'too much to tack on'.
E.g. how much can a C++14 programmer mess up upon first encountering the proposed feature?
 
I just updated a bunch of stuff in my lib and ran tests... and one of the tests failed, and it like pinpointed exactly where I made a mistake (typo). Feels so good, I had to share
unit tests are like this warm fuzzy blanket
they feel so safe... so secure
 
Indentation is a problem
 
Xeo
@LucDanton We obviously need Rust's lifetime tracking and borrow checker.
No mistakes there!
 
@Xeo I was keeping that locked & loaded as an argument, yes.
 
Xeo
Oh boy, my steam summer game room is at level 2600.
 
8:13 AM
I.e. I may be willing to put up with the craziness of lifetimes in Rust, but that’s because I get some guaranteed in return, eliminating entire classes of nasty errors. Without it, then I’m not as willing to learn new rules, pitfalls, etc.
 
@LucDanton What's so crazy about lifetimes? Isn't this exactly what one wants when it comes to dealing with pointers?
 
@fredoverflow It’s a whole 'write-build-error' workload to learn. Mapping the errors to what you actually did wrong takes time.
@fredoverflow But yes, you’re right. Reviewing borrows etc. is the same in either Rust or C++.
 
Except in Rust, it's part of the type system?
 
Yes.
 
@LucDanton There's little room for error, and errors carry little danger. Stroustrup tends to mention the solution of extending all temporaries to the end of the scope. That's pretty much the worst-case scenario, even worse than putting my decorator on every single parameter everywhere.
 
8:21 AM
@Potatoswatter I actually had in mind an over-enthusiastic programmer that extends all parameters upon discovering the feature.
 
Even better, the next revision will propose a facility for accessors that preserve const and value category: property_type & get_property() export( const && ) would generate property_type const & get_property() const &, property_type && get_property() &&, and property_type & get_property() & (and the const && one too).
 
@Potatoswatter Just putting what you said here somewhere in the paper would be helpful, I think.
 
Yeah, I suppose I should mention the worst-case scenario early in the paper. The export(const &&) needs to be near the end, I think, because it's less essential.
 
@Potatoswatter How do I write the definition of such a thing?
 
^ Eh all that boilerplate should include export decorators of course.
 
And why should that feature come with lifetime extension?
 
> Learn C/C++
O_o
 
Xeo
> This Language
singular...
ffs
 
> The Java virtual machine is written in ANSI C
It is?
 
@LucDanton The feature only really works if the definition is the same across all the cases. (For most accessors, it is.)
 
8:29 AM
> So which is better C or C++? I lean slightly to C++ because they are very similar, but with C++ you get the added benefit of object-oriented programming.
Okay, this article is really bad.
 
So, you return a reference and then it applies const and move automatically.
 
> So which is better C or C++? I lean slightly to C++ because they are very similar, but with C++ you get the added benefit of object-oriented programming. Even if you decide you’re only ever going to program in functional languages, learning how to think in OO teaches organizational patterns that are critical to engineering and maintaining really large projects.
@fredoverflow beat me to it
 
@LucDanton The user doesn't really see lifetime extension at all. It's an obscure feature and a gotcha that they'd prefer not to know about. The user sees a decorator that applies to accessor functions.
 
He glosses over all the crazy template meta programming nightmare fuel (the best part!)
 
@Potatoswatter What?
Is this a separate feature re-using the same to-be-bikeshed keyword?
 
Xeo
8:32 AM
@Potatoswatter What would the body look like, to be able to produce both an lvalue and an rvalue?
 
@LucDanton Lifetime extension isn't as teachable as accessor functions. All owned-property accessors need to be decorated with export, and they should propagate const and value category too. So, bundle all these things into one facility.
 
Oh nice, named multiple return values. (Are these "Voldemort" types?)
 
@Xeo The move is added automatically for those overloads. (Ugly, I'm open to suggestions.)
 
Xeo
@fredoverflow ooold
 
@Potatoswatter I see the words, I can read them, but what you are trying to tell me is escaping me.
 
8:35 AM
Hopefully we can agree that the accessor function status quo is awful.
 
@Potatoswatter Then no.
 
@Xeo Twas news to me...
 
Right now, I need this:
 
@Potatoswatter Why do we even need accessor functions? Don't nice languages have "properties"? :)
 
class foo {
        int property;
    public:
        int & get_property() & { return property; }
        int const & get_property() const & { return property; }
};
WTF with the formatting
 
8:37 AM
lol
 
@fredoverflow Even if properties are one day added, there's boatloads of interfaces that are written in function call notation.
 
Ven
hey
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow No.
 
Anyway, rather than take all those accessors and put export, just do this:
 
user1804599
They are Voldemort types, not "Voldemort" types.
 
8:40 AM
class foo {
    int property;
public:
    int & get_property() & export(const) { return property; }
};
 
user1804599
Scala also has this! def f() = { class A; new A }. I think it even treats values of different invocations of f to be of different types but I'm not sure.
 
struct foo { int property; };
 
Doesn't decltype sorta allow you to name anything?
 
yes.
 
@LucDanton Don't make me write an example that actually needs the accessor. We both know use-cases exist.
 
8:41 AM
@Potatoswatter Will these examples have an identical body?
 
decltype("foo") foo = "foo";   // Is foo an array or a pointer?
 
For example, vector::front and vector::back should be done this way.
 
user1804599
Ah, wait, f returns AnyRef.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow array.
 
@LucDanton As long the accessor returns a reference to the same object regardless of the value category or cv-qualification, yes.
The exceptions to that rule are few.
 
8:43 AM
You said it would insert moves automagically. Suppose I have struct foo { bar* thing; }; and I want to present a bar, not a bar*. What will be moved, thing or *thing?
@Potatoswatter Meaning a reference variable?
Or reference result?
 
@rightfold const or mutable?
 
@LucDanton ? I mean the accessors return an lvalue referring to an object, regardless of the value category or qualification of the access path.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Array of const chars.
 
Okay
 
user1804599
char const[4].
 
8:45 AM
@LucDanton If you return *thing;, then that will be moved. If you return thing;, then moving a pointer value makes no sense, so you shouldn't use export(&&).
 
sure it does
there's nothing wrong with moving a pointer.
they fully support move semantics.
 
@Potatoswatter *move(thing) vs move(*thing) (which you have clarified by now)
It’s really important to be precise.
 
The full-expression of return is what gets moved. I have a draft write-up already: bit.ly/genlife
@Puppy The compiler need to transform a & in the return type into a &&, so bar * get_thing() export(&&) would be an error.
 
why?
because it's not &?
ok, but that has nothing to do with pointers.
you would encounter an identical situation if returning int.
 
@Puppy Because export(&&) works by transforming & into && and adding move. It's a kind of covariance.
 
8:48 AM
and if you returned a bar*&, that should still qualify.
 
@Puppy Yes.
For pointers and pointer-like classes, generalized lifetime extension works at two levels: it will extend the pointer value itself as well as the referent.
 
This is honestly nightmarish.
 
Only if you think about how it works "behind the scenes."
 
It makes life harder for everyone except a handful of class writers.
 
I bet you guys already knew this right? forbes.com/sites/quora/2015/06/11/…
 
8:51 AM
@LucDanton How? You follow a convenient formula for defining accessors, and dangling references magically disappear.
 
@Potatoswatter When you pointed out the ODR/ABI implications, that was the tipping point for me.
 
@MarcoA. C/C++ isn't a language.
 
@Potatoswatter the article talks about Java/C++
 
See, I already have no dangling references.
 
8:53 AM
@LucDanton Huh? There's no ODR/ABI implication unless you put the qualifiers on function pointer types in a template parameter.
The ABI impact is the same as the new noexcept rules.
 
@Potatoswatter You mentioned override.
There is a section literally named 'ABI support', too.
 
@LucDanton There's no ABI implication there. It's the same as noexcept: the function allowed to override only if it's more qualified.
 
@Potatoswatter And the accessors I do write I’m not entirely sure they’d fall under the umbrella.
@Potatoswatter Then my suggestion is that 'ABI support' is too scary a name.
 
@LucDanton That's only about function pointer mangling in template parameters. Perhaps I mention more corner cases in the proposal than I should.
 
@fredoverflow ideally it's not the language that makes the most money that a smart donkey wants to learn, it's the one requires the least effort per $ earned.
 
8:56 AM
E.g. 'Implications on mangling'
 
@LucDanton So you have & foo.get(x) != & as_const(foo).get(x) or & foo.get(x) != & std::move(foo).get(x)?
 
@LucDanton hey bby u wanna c my mangling?
 
@Potatoswatter I typically forward, not move, in such accessors.
Think template<typename T> struct tuple;. For writing get, you don’t move the content. You forward it to support tuple<T&> gracefully, as that’s a tuple to a reference to something, not a tuple to something.
 
@LucDanton You can't forward from this because it has no value category.
 
8:58 AM
@Potatoswatter Okay then.
 
@LucDanton I'll probably erase it from the final draft.
 

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