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1:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz what language you using?
 
@BartekBanachewicz never go full oop retard
 
People here get 'annoyed' by my reluctance to make everything require new instances in Java. Static methods works just fine, and are less bloat to call :S
 
bloat
 
blyat
 
FTR I used a helper that wasn't a class member in the cpp
@thecoshman C++
@thecoshman that makes sense. By using statics you make polymorphism harder
 
1:03 PM
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 that sounds fairly... normal...
 
it's easier to mock if you use instances
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's for util stuff
 
doesn't really matter
instance doesn't have to be data
it can be data, code, and any combination of the above
 
@BartekBanachewicz not really. Mockito makes mocking anything fairly trivial.
 
@thecoshman no really
 
1:04 PM
@BartekBanachewicz oh, so it was a class specific helper?
I thought you meant it was some generic helper function.
 
@thecoshman yep. I put it into the cpp of that class
it was just for the some common things done in that class' implementation
 
@BartekBanachewicz opposed to a private member function?
 
@thecoshman but it didn't use the class state, only the fucking singletons
private member functions are dumb anyway
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah I'd not be too fussed either way.
I'd favour the private function though I think.
 
@thecoshman why
 
1:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
@CatPlusPlus what?
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's logic for this class. Though I guess having to put it in the header seems a bit out of sync with the 'this is the public facing stuff'
 
@thecoshman that's why it's in the cpp of that class
what point does putting it in the interface serve
 
@BartekBanachewicz probably means you overdid the abstraction?
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's not though, it's floating in a file that holds the implementation of that class.
 
1:09 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ow that's bad
 
@sehe I removed duplicating code.
 
@thecoshman such a red flag
@BartekBanachewicz yup
 
@sehe I never know where to put that stuff :'(
 
@BartekBanachewicz If it's private then it's not part of the interface
That C++ is crap and you have to resort to idiotic tricks to actually hide the implementation is not a problem with private methods
 
@CatPlusPlus then what else are private methods for? teasing?
 
1:11 PM
What else what
 
@BartekBanachewicz I remember being on this VB6 project. I basically wrote a containers + algorithm library (because STL rocked, even back then). AFAIR I didn't mimicked iterators. So that was Range library avant la lettre
 
@CatPlusPlus you loled when @BartekBanachewicz said they were stupid, which implies you disagree and thus have another idea of how they are useful
 
I got the occasional strange look when I showed that code. But mostly the project was me and my coworker (I reckon I was slightly less junior than him :)) and he just took it all in :)
 
They're useful for implementation details I don't understand the confusion?
There's no "another idea" that's it
 
@CatPlusPlus so your lol was specifically at putting them in the interface as C++ requires you to?
 
1:13 PM
@thecoshman you didn't follow. It's more about !modules
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, that was at saying that they're dumb
 
@thecoshman Haha. Loungers always craving the disparity.
 
@sehe I know that duplicating code has valid cases but this wasn't one. IDG some people
@CatPlusPlus I was talking specifically in context of C++.
Of course I don't mind functions having access to class internals being a part of hidden implementation
 
Doesn't really matter, if you never use private methods then you either have way too much code in public ones, or use even dumber tricks like friend
 
-3
Q: Are Wonder woman and Superwoman the same character

user43706Are Wonder woman and Superwoman the same character? I have tried looking it up but I can not find anything.

 
1:16 PM
@BartekBanachewicz The problem is SPDGI ... so you have to strike that balance or add ™ in an attempt to make it more readable
 
lol those nerds arguing it should be reopened cos they have an answer
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit dat tag
 
Anyway pimpl everything
 
pimpl my ride
 
Fuck cplusplus
 
1:17 PM
@milleniumbug
 
@CatPlusPlus something about virtual functions :P
 
C++ gave me pimpls
 
Adding a public member function == recompiling... lol C++
 
not just recompiling
it's an API version number bump
it's a big deal
 
something I sort of remember reading once somewhere... lol C++
 
1:19 PM
Even C typedef to incomplete type hack is better at this
 
anyway now we can't merge because visual fucked up indentation and I accidentally commited code one indent error to the right
 
5
Q: Template non-type arguments for reference type and odr-used

Mitsuru KariyaIs the variable v in the sample code below odr-used? extern void* v; template<void*&> void f() {} int main() { f<v>(); } I found this pattern in Boost ML. cf. http://lists.boost.org/Archives/boost/2011/04/180082.php It says that the boost::enabler is never defined, but clang rejects it...

Needs an other approve to add the language lawyer tag
 
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 white space is stopping you merging? Not even clearcase is that shit
 
@sehe SPDGI?
@thecoshman hey git
 
@BartekBanachewicz Some people don't get it (it was the obvious reversal of "IDGI - some people"
 
1:21 PM
ah
 
I mean it's just bafflement against theirs. If you're gonna have a team, you'll have to grant them their needs
 
I don't wanna fight them really
but their needs are unjustified
they write crappy code, they make me write crappy code, and as a result I commit more bugs
I hate that.
this is bullshit. Software developments is bullshit.
2
 
@BartekBanachewicz Erm. If you are somehow much more important than them. Yes. Until then, teach/convince/ask. But...
 
Welcome to life
 
Now you can write a programming
 
1:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz That may be the thing you have to learn how to deal with
@CatPlusPlus programing*
 
Thunderbird has trouble opening a message
 
@sehe suicide?
 
@sehe if I write another something about style I'll get the usual "do-we-need-this-for-next-release" answer
 
My head hurts
 
@CatPlusPlus they say 'free', they don't value their time :|
 
1:24 PM
I'm tired of that and of people looking at me as if I want to destabilize their cozy comfort zone
 
@BartekBanachewicz Style is not important
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's not about that, really
 
Hi guys, please could you tell me why I'm getting an error with cout << (*this); ? I've already overloaded the << operator but still getting this error: error: cannot bind 'std::ostream {aka std::basic_ostream<char>}' lvalue to 'std::basic_ostream<char>&&'
 
god another getline/op>> question
 
@BartekBanachewicz people make good money patching shit with shit.
 
1:24 PM
for fuck's sake
 
@CatPlusPlus I was referring to that free function thing for example
 
@BartekBanachewicz wtf
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit me ? :<
 
@BartekBanachewicz You cannot blame "them" for your having committed code one indent too far to the right. Take some responsibility for fucking crying out loud.
 
yeah that was my fault
I agree.
 
1:26 PM
well then what is this nonsense
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
they write crappy code, they make me write crappy code, and as a result I commit more bugs
 
@BartekBanachewicz I had a colleague like that. Frankly, I just found the coworkers that valued my contributions and sort-a hijacked the conventions. Then, this coworker would be writing the style guide papers and "we need to use branching scheme X", "we need to use a DI framework", "we need to use Mocks", "we should be using DRY", "we should be measuring test coverage" etc.
I prefer on actually getting the sutff done, and yes! there is a point of diminishing returns. So if you're too rigid "too structured" you're probably past that point
 
and this insane conclusion
 
I am just getting tired of working on broken codebases with broken tools and coopearting with people with broken mindsets
 
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
this is bullshit. Software developments is bullshit.
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe your mindset is the broken one? If you're the only one? What do you think?
 
@CatPlusPlus Hah, we were in unison
 
1:27 PM
@BartekBanachewicz "Team spirit"
 
mr i-dont-test-my-code-cos-its-not-my-job
 
@BartekBanachewicz just what. Don't ever blame your victim-mode on anyone else
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I know I don't have those kind of problems in software I have control over
 
yeah because there's nobody around you to disagree with you
doesn't mean you're doing it right
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've been prompting this theme for the last 10 minutes. I don't think he recognizes it
 
1:28 PM
this is a problem with open-source pet projects on gitflub. you don't have a team around you to help you to learn and grow
you're now finding out for the first time what that is like, and it scares you
 
ffs you're making me look like a sociopath here
2
 
When it is us versus them, there is no team anymore.
 
Team Spirit is not just bending over, you sometimes have to dip in too.
 
1:29 PM
where the point is I'm just really fucking tired of that. I am willing to cooperate and adhere
sure, whatever, he blames the tools instead of himself right.
 
You are willing to cooperate and adhere except that everybody around you is incompetent, all their code sucks, and software development is bullshit? Nice.
 
or coworkers
or code
the point is I don't want to deal with this anymore
 
you blamed the entire industry. just press Page Up.
 
yeah I did.
 
1:30 PM
 
@BartekBanachewicz Take a break. Go for a walk. Sleep on the train. Come back and talk to the people.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't pick my coding and tooling practices basing on a personal whim
if something doesn't work you have to fix it damn it
 
@BartekBanachewicz where you working now anyway?
 
not pretend "being careful" is a proper way to deal with problems
 
Being careless isn't, that's for sure.
 
1:31 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it is... don't doing anything with out thinking it through.
 
Something about this question smells...
0
Q: How to return a pointer to a unique_ptr wrapped pointer

perrealHow can I create a pointer to a pointer that is wrapped inside a unique_ptr? In other words, is there a sound way to write this function: int **getIterator(std::unique_ptr<int>& p) { /* error: lvalue required as unary ‘&’ operand */ return &p.get(); }

 
how does your team fare on The Joel Test?
 
especially when a 'small' fuck up can ruin entire companies.
 
we just figured out we get 4/12
-.-
 
1:32 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 7
 
> How can I create a pointer to a pointer that is wrapped inside a unique_ptr?
 
what's hallway usability testing, usability testing done while sitting in the hallway
 
I don't even
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the user has 688 points in c++
they should know better
 
@AlexM. Get someone who doesn't know anything about the software to try to use it
 
1:33 PM
almost 52k overall they should know better
 
@AlexM. More or less yes. Getting randomers to test it.
 
@thecoshman just the tip?
 
so I'm now going to carefully get throught the 2768 lines of conflicts
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm willing to dispute that
 
1:34 PM
@sehe at least the tip. it's unsporting to not join in.
 
and carefully examine every single one of them
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit smells like a bait question to me
 
because I could commit a bug
 
@BartekBanachewicz reject, too large.
 
@AlexM. yeah getting it tested by people who aren't already innately familiar with the thing.
 
1:34 PM
that's what they are paying me for
 
@Enissay You should already know this is not how it works
 
for being a tedious monk-like conflict resolver
 
@BartekBanachewicz aren't you supposed to commit bug fixes?
 
that's how the life full of challenges in programming looks like
 
@Enissay You overloaded the operator wrong.
 
1:35 PM
fucking staring at merge conflicts
 
@BartekBanachewicz what, no
 
@BartekBanachewicz YES YOU FUCKING HAVE TO CHECK EVERY SINGLE CONFLICT.
2
 
undo. fix the bug. re-apply change.
you are not going to check through 2768 lines of indentation conflicts and get it right. you're just not.
 
You can't just press a button and hope it's ok.
 
It's called "work". And you learn to avoid the pain. It's called "experience".
You'll end up with "work experience".
And a paycheck
 
1:36 PM
ITT Bartek is the sort of person who would bring a development team to its knees
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yep, that's merging
 
"I'm better than this! I don't need to test, or to manually resolve conflicts, using thought. I come from GitHub! I use Haskell! I am of the new world order! I'm better than this!" ... you're fired.
 
@sehe then you start complaining about it never being enough.
 
Also how the fuck did you get 2000 conflicts
 
being bad
 
1:37 PM
That's a sign that you didn't stay in sync
 
@CatPlusPlus That's only 1µBratek
 
No it's a sign that he made all his code have the wrong indentation level
Like a 1-rep SO user called Prasheen
 
Zing
 
If you make extensive codebase changes then you have to get the team onboard
 
Using Turbo-C++ via a DOS emulator
 
1:37 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that will fuck me up on the next merge
 
@BartekBanachewicz How so?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What emulator :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit we constantly work on a branch
 
@BartekBanachewicz So?
 
we do the ad-hoc fixes there
the master is curated by the other team
 
1:38 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Still not seeing it.
 
Even autoresolved conflicts shouldn't be trusted and need to be reviewed
 
@BartekBanachewicz He meant that you redo your change in a way that won't conflict.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That too
 
@CatPlusPlus Yep.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ...and rebase appropriately?
 
1:39 PM
my change is a few commits deep in our branch
 
Short branches with minimal changes and you won't have 3 fucking thousand conflicts to solve
 
@CatPlusPlus My boss learned that the hard way a few months back.
 
1. Check out code.
2. Fix bug as instructed.
3. Fuck up whilst at it.
4. Commit to branch.
5. Attempt merge.
6. Merge fails with millions of conflicts cos I'm a loser.
7. Bail out. Revert. Cancel merge.
8. Go back to my branch. Fix my stupidity.
9. Retry merge.
10. Close my branch.
this isn't hard
 
@CatPlusPlus that's not how it works here
@LightnessRacesinOrbit no
 
What do you use
 
1:39 PM
@BartekBanachewicz yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why the hell not?
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, something people end up learning the hardwat.
 
because that's not the workflow my team adapted
 
It's the way to solve your problem.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what stops you from just gradually rebasing your branch off the master branch?
 
1:39 PM
What do you use.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so what? I have to be a team player.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't see how any of that causes any problem.
 
So you're only a team player when you can use it to defend stupidity and gross incompetence?
 
I see ways to solve problems every day
so what?
 
@BartekBanachewicz You sound super teamplayery right now :D
 
1:40 PM
And in what way does someone else's workflow prevent you from doing the above enumerated steps?
I don't see any way for that to happen.
 
Seriously if this is a DVCS then you have no excuse
 
@jalf yes, in that I'm not going to flip our workflow upside down
 
Are you banned by management from making your own branch? Is that what you're saying?
 
@CatPlusPlus who has no excuse
 
We have two mainline branches but that doesn't mean everyone has to commit directly onto them
 
1:40 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Easy: their worflow involves going to Bartek's desk and stealing his keyboard. That would prevent it.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the merge conflict is on master -> project branch
 
You can branch on your own and then prepare to merge with mainline you know
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes or setting him on fire
 
I'd need to rip out my changes out of our project branch
 
@BartekBanachewicz So fucking what? You didn't commit the conflicts, did you?
 
1:41 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, that's exactly the point.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Okay so do it
 
no of course not
 
Branches are cheap and history is not fixed
 
@BartekBanachewicz sometimes that is the easiest way to resolve a merge conflict
 
I implemented the feature on my private branch off a project branch
 
1:41 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Then how will they "fuck [you] up on the next merge"?
 
You rip out your changes, merge, redo your changes.
 
but in the meantime shit fucked up
 
I don't even
 
k so slowly
 
That's when you rebase the private branch
To keep it in sync with the mainline
 
1:42 PM
maybe this wouldn't have happened if you'd used a sensible and comprehensible VCS like SVN
stick with something you can understand :D
 
Well, not when then, you should keep it rebased at all times is what I'm saying
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol, I was counting the time until you said that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ;)
 
Then your conflict surface is minimal
 
1:43 PM
Also, do yourself a favor and configure git with a proper mergetool :)
 
@CatPlusPlus imo re-basing should be taught first.
 
I mean, you can merge too
 
did I mention my team here is religiously against rebases
 
Rebasing is bit neater
 
for all my moaning, the worst merge-time mistake my lot make is not checking conflicts, instead just blindly dumping their WD wholesale onto trunk. leaving it to me to verify and possibly fix. nobody and I mean nobody is quite as incompetent as this story I'm hearing right now, though.
 
1:43 PM
Doesn't matter
 
Rebasing is not required in any way.
 
I know.
I need a snickers
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh you need more than tit Titty Von SwettyCunt
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well except our project branch is a fucked up mess it isn't
because people apparently see nothing wrong in merge commits from their locals
 
There's nothing wrong in merge commits from their locals.
 
1:45 PM
I'm glad that you hole team has acknowledge it is fucked up and are working on resolving it.
 
Pristine linearity is overrated.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it makes browsing the history harder
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh for sure, but "automatic merge of master" is annoying as sand in your ass when looking at logs.
 
git history | grep -v 'merge'
 
@BartekBanachewicz branches are not hard to see on their own, unless they are allowed to get nasty long lived.
 
1:47 PM
anyway
 
@thecoshman That's not "from their locals".
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not really
 
I also wanted to point out your reactions to the problems I had were so fucking unfortunately dick-ish I am really amazed how you're able to constrain your dicky responses on a daily basis
 
I don't know how you browse history, but I personally like that merge points separate changes into well-defined groups that match actual history.
 
inb4 star and ridicule again
2
 
1:48 PM
@BartekBanachewicz there there, we all deal with shit, you're just not used to the smell yet.
 
@BartekBanachewicz LOL
 
"Someone grabbed this group of changes and that group of changes and brought them together".
 
I'd like to try pre-review flow sometime
Hey if you want to try to make a better VCS than git (like that's hard lol) then consider better separation (or maybe better correlation) between private and public history
 
@BartekBanachewicz All snark aside, what are we supposed to do? You're not giving us much to work with if you're asking for advice. If you're just venting your frustration that your incompetent coworkers don't do things your preferred way, that doesn't seem entirely un-dickish either.
 
so you naturally assume I'm pointleslly ranting
that tells me a lot about your opinion about me, frankly
 
1:51 PM
That's not what I said, no
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's what it looks like.
@BartekBanachewicz "You're not giving us much to work with"
 
You're not pointlessly ranting, but you are being a total muppet.
 
this is just a weird scenario for me to work with
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, I'd like to be able to have my history safe somewhere else, but no it's not stuck public for ever more.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You're deflecting again.
 
1:52 PM
Say in Potato Empires we have automatic CI, a comprehensive test suite, code reviews and great static analysis
it's a dumb, silly, newb hobby project
but compared to our projects at work, everything runs (ran?) like a swiss watch there
 
I like Mercurial phases system, but it could go bit further, e.g. keep correlation when you squash entire branch for review and mainline merge
 
yes because welcome to real world?
 
@BartekBanachewicz You had a point? I never have a point, no pint in them. I'm just here to say vulgar shit.
 
real world ain't got time for wanking over shiny web 5.0 bullshittery. stuff got get done bro
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit who's deflecting now?
 
1:53 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You are.
 
@BartekBanachewicz but also took forever to get fuck all done.
 
Real world doesn't care about QA :v
 
that's the joke- Bartek's place has QA
 
@thecoshman Only at first glance. When you count the time spent to deal with bullshit here, I don't think that's true.
 
he's apparently blaming them for his inability to merge correctly
 
1:54 PM
It probably helps that hobby projects tend to be comparatively tiny. And they don't have to make money. They don't have to exist in the real world, where you never have time for anything, everything is complicated as fuck, and you're stuck with old crufty legacy code
 
and now it's everyone else's fault that he can't commit a change on a personal branch without somehow magically fucking up the branch for the rest of time for unspecified reasons
that's cos of the team workflow, see!!
 
Don't work where you're stuck with old crufty legacy code
 
@BartekBanachewicz I know, but it's a fucking hard fight at times to get people to see that it's worth taking twice as long to make sure not only that this works, but that it stays working.
 
We're building shit from scratch and I have a ton of room to introduce proper quality process
 
1:55 PM
@CatPlusPlus That can be hard to avoid. Imo the important trick is to not work at a place that's unwilling to improve their old crusty legacy code
 
@CatPlusPlus lol, such places exist
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes he looks a bit like Jesse Eisenberg
 
@jalf again, lol :P
 
@thecoshman anywhere that has management throwing new project after new project after new project at you and there's no time to keep older projects up-to-date
we're really suffering from that here now
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus And yet you're drained by this project? :P
 
1:56 PM
I desperately want to update our GCC and C++11-ize everything (C++14, I guess)
but it's just not going to happen until at least after summer. and I suspect that if I'm gone by then it'll just never happen at all
 
@Xeo Not because of QA
 
at least not without breaking backward compatibility and causing all manner of stdlib linker errors on deployments lol
 
How to install Nonius? Do I simply throw everything in the /usr/local/include or something?
 
@thecoshman you're saying this like I didn't know that
 
RTFM? :(
Why did I bother.
 
1:58 PM
@milleniumbug try /dev/null
@R.MartinhoFernandes so you can link to it vOv
 
I tried to say that, but then of course the fuckup is only my fault
 
@BartekBanachewicz fight the fight or get in line vOv
 
People on the internet said that it's my fault
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Gotta love auto-merging two different changes with an unfortunate common edit (XML closing tag, I'm looking at you)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "It comes as a single header that you can drop somewhere and #include it in your code." Ok, so I just copy stuff.
 
1:59 PM
@BartekBanachewicz you do not need to fight us. you just ranted, understandably so.
 
@Xeo Git sometimes does really weird shit
 
Xeo
That was perforce's merger
Had it a bunch of times on VC project files :(
 

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