« first day (1458 days earlier)      last day (3505 days later) » 

12:01 PM
@DaveRandom I smell bullshit
 
idk, I'd have thought they'd make it less misshapen if it was doctored
 
@argentum47 apology accepted. :-). Now, on to more constructive things...
 
@DaveRandom You might want to unonebox that :P
 
1 message moved to bin
too late
 
yeah me too :P
Where is that autounonebox plugin again? :P
 
12:08 PM
Hello All, Please have a look :
0
Q: addBetweenCondition in YII

Harshal MahajanSO I want to find that if value x is exits between the values of 2 columns or not, For that i have run the query in phpmyadmin : Normal Approch :- SELECT * FROM `traits_versions` WHERE 16 BETWEEN `trait_value_lower` and `trait_value_upper` and `style_id` = 1 and it is giving me fine result...

 
@PeeHaa Google screwed us over with the "must come from webstore" bollocks
I'm sure there are work arounds but I never bothered to put enough effort in to find it
 
@DaveRandom I don't mind that too much. I hate the fact more that they screwed up a perfectly good browser
 
meta.stackexchange.com/a/203334/172217 <-- there's the answer, anyway
 
> 5 points (65% upvoted)
@ircmaxell not going down so well on reddit :D
 
@DaveRandom gracias
 
12:11 PM
Still don't understand about jquery form submit for uploading file. How can php identify $_FILES[''] by name
 
@DaveRandom The problem is that Chrome has a personal grudge against userscripts
 
Someone said something about stealing a lib file from Chromium or something
 
I heard stealing is wrong ...
 
I hate the totalitarian nature of it. I get the desire to protect the average user, but at least give me something in chrome://flags or whatever to let me re-enable it
 
@JoeWatkins That's silly, banks and insurance companies do it all the time.
@DaveRandom It's hardly the desire to protect the average user.
It's the desire to know exactly what kind of extensions you plug into your browser so that we can serve you better ads.
 
12:14 PM
@JoeWatkins let them
 
@JoeWatkins Except when your name is Robin Hood ;-)
 
@SecondRikudo Plus the desire to make me pay them $5 so I can publish it
 
@DaveRandom Nah, that's not it
 
any help
 
@DaveRandom I don't think they make money off of that...
it's more like a troll protection imho
 
12:16 PM
Google don't actually make money off the registration fee you pay.
 
0
Q: How secure are sessions?

ImrayFrom what I understand and have read about sessions, a website, like Facebook, will store a code on your computer that your computer sends back to Facebook every time you visit their site. This saves you the trouble of logging in every time you want to see your news feed. My question is, how is ...

^^ I took a stab at that, let me know what you think
 
That's more of a seriousness factor to filter out joke/troll/spam
 
any help
 
I know that, but it still takes the piss. It's the principle of the thing, I can obviously afford to part with $5 (that's the point of it being so low) but the fact that I have to do it at all pisses me off
It's enforcing a workflow, for one thing
 
if there weren't this fee, imagine the quality of what we'd find....
 
12:19 PM
@DaveRandom are they disabled on canary builds? (I think the store restriction doesn't apply there, but I may be remembering incorrectly.)
 
Is it hard to create a custom URL shortner?
 
Stuff like cloud-to-butt wouldn't happen though. You're free to ignore the shit, and before this the shit wouldn't have to clutter up the store...
@PaulCrovella Dunno, but in general I like my browser to work and not explode at random...
 
Same, was more curious than anything.
 
Lulz I just found this in a codebase
		<!-- let op, moet absoluut zijn (http://....)
		<meta property="og:image" content="./static/images/og.jpg" />
translation "warning, this should be an absolute url"
:P
 
haha
fcuk facebook hehe
 
12:25 PM
lol
man, @JoeWatkins with this blogging thing... Generating meaningful discussion. Who would have thought
 
meaningful discussion?
is it the end of the world again?
I thought 2012 was past...
 
@Ocramius the Mayans had an off-by-2 error...
they simply forgot to flip the 2 bit...
 
I almost responded to it, but decided it was best not to
 
12:32 PM
why not respond to that ... I did ...
 
I'll let the talk speak for itself, once it's published (which is to say, who knows when)
 
Yeh it took quite a while last year
 
March
 
can't we... force them a little? 6 months to upload a couple videos is very long... everybody will have forgotten about it by then
I'm not dismissing their work, I'm sure there is plenty of it. But...
 
@Danack about the issue I had on friday.. The entire code still worked.. But there was a problem in the software we wrote 2, we asked the client to put back a back-up of a week ago.. And it was operational again.. So something must have been wrong with the webservice that we cakked from their software packet...
 
12:35 PM
well, I think part of the issue is getting the raw files from the venue
dam, I get invited to so many conferences... I really want to go to, but I can't
 
@NikiC please don't use constraints that allow any future version, such as >=5.3, as people will get them on installation in the very far future :-\
 
@Ocramius Agree for everything apart from PHP versions
Never seen any one use something other than >=5.x for PHP versions.
 
@ircmaxell which one ?
 
we don't know if PHP 8 or PHP 9 will (for example) deprecate the array(...) syntax
or any other construct we're relying on right now
 
@JoeWatkins a Drupal one in Chicago...
 
12:39 PM
So what, people will get an error in that case. In ten years.
PHP versions do not suffer the usual version mismatch problems
 
yes, and I'd rather have them not install a wrong set of deps instead
 
@ircmaxell heh, you might meet some of my colleagues if you start going to drupal confs :P
 
I've spoken at 2 DrupalCons and 2 Drupal Camps
 
@Ocramius it would be nice is we at least deprecated this structure:
 
@ircmaxell hah
you might know Commerce Guys then
 
12:40 PM
yup
I know of them at least
 
class Foo
{
    public function Foo()
    {
        // why the fuck I am still a constructor ?!?
    }
}
 
@tereško where can I add a "fuck that"?
 
@tereško simple: you're not using a namespace declaration
 
@Ocramius The only thing I care about is that it runs on PHP 7. Doesn't matter to me how you want to handle other versions.
 
12:42 PM
@tereško I find it so weird that it's not a constructor...
 
@NikiC I want to explicitly be restrictive about future versions, that's it
I'd rather have a composer.json change and a new tag instead
 
which is trivial to do. Having unbounded dependencies leads to a load of "WTF" situations that I met when I did this with some components I wrote
really drives you mad if you are not strict enough with dep versions :-\
 
Using composer is a pure wtf in general
 
@FlorianMargaine I really prefer the php's __construct() and __destruct() over Java-style constructors/destructors
makes for much better readability
 
12:44 PM
@NikiC it's still the best thing happened to PHP after PHP
 
@ircmaxell that's diabolical :)
 
@Ocramius yes
 
@tereško ++
 
@Ja͢ck why? It's BC
 
Yup
 
12:44 PM
@tereško I'd prefer the other... but that's preference I guess. It's also more in line with other languages: C++, Java, C#, etc.
 
but anyway, all I ask for is adding a ,<8.0-DEV there
 
@NikiC it's only WTF when you want to push its boundaries. In general though it's pretty sane for most usages
 
@ircmaxell I am not sure whether one should consider it to be a bug or a feature
 
neither
 
@tereško correct me if I'm wrong, but methods with name same as class name are not constructors if the class is namespaced
 
12:46 PM
we could just deny non-namespaced code <_< (taking cover...)
 
@SergeyTelshevsky yes, which is exactly what ircmaxell pointed out earlier
 
@tereško feature, since iwthout the namespace, it could be <5.3 code, so it needed to support it. But since 5.3, if you use a namespace, it just works
 
oops, missed these links
 
<?php
program test;
uses crt;
var a = [0..2], b = 2;

function f(x)
begin
    f:= x*x + 2;
end.

....
 
12:49 PM
yay
 
since now even a code snipped needs to have namespace (aka. program) defined at the top
 
looks like ada...
 
@FlorianMargaine pascal .. also, you bring shame to your tribe
 
@JoeWatkins problem with this is that, instead of BC break, will instead cause the outdated code to act strange, because substr() will still work, it just wont return the same result
to "fix" the parameter inconsistencies one would have to completely replace the API (probably with namespaced functions)
 
12:54 PM
@JoeWatkins replied
 
@DaveRandom I looked, pascall.co.uk they are not surviving in a tiny corner of a tiny island ... I'm sad ...
 
> just fix the function name and parameter order inconsistencies ... lol
 
that post has been read 1000 times already ...
 
@NikiC checking out your branch and applying my feedback manually :-)
thx for noticing the issue btw
 
@ircmaxell On that comment, I think some would prefer to code for one major version only and that's fine - rather like everyone saying "screw IE". Some don't like that, other's don't bother with IE and just get on with it
 
12:59 PM
@JoeWatkins haha, great joke
 
@JoeWatkins It'd take another blog post to fully respond to that, I think. The benefit of having an api that feels cleaner don't outweigh the costs of what that level of BC breaking will do to adoption.
 
@Jimbo Python 3 is 6 years old. And still has trivial adoption rates...
 
@NikiC :)
 
@JoeWatkins wow nice
 
@Ocramius thanks
 
1:01 PM
also tagging btw
 
@JoeWatkins very cool man :-D
my best post ever, is sitting at 127333 views, measured by blogger
but I also have a bunch that never broke the 1000 view mark
 
/me sighs at travis+hhvm-nightly
would also be cool to have php-nightly on travis btw
 
then ask
 
yeah, poking the travis guys now
 
I'm sure someone said they were doing that or going to do that ... but since that seems to come from memory, probably wrong ...
@ircmaxell it is quite cool ... monkeys and humans, which people liked because there's a monkey in it, is only at 1300 ... and that's got a monkey in it ... a monkey ...
 
1:07 PM
@ircmaxell , regarding the subject of "How would you write code that worked on multiple versions?" I am actually interested in your solution ... because now you made it sound even worse =/
 
@JoeWatkins it takes a lot of time to develop an audience. To be doing that much traffic after a week, is quite impressive
 
Hmm, looking at a CV and you guys have spoiled me. Trying to see things I would expect to be on one of your CVs rather than a standard web developer :(
 
@tereško I don't have a solution. Which is why I haven't proposed one...
 
heh
all the solutions that I can come up with would require several iterations (as in "several php versions with new features" )
 
How's work @tereško? -_-
 
1:09 PM
I think the point is to highlight that there isn't a good solution, the best solution by a million miles is just to retain bc in the core ..
 
step 1: ability to import namespaced functions with `use` statement
step 2: moving built in php functions in a namespace
step 3: give ability to "cascade" (somehow, using future-tech) the lookup of namespaced functions
step 4: deprecate the old ones
 
@Fabien My CV is pretty empty, actually, because I have very little in the way of professional experience in a lot of areas that I know quite a lot about...
 
You're hired. When can you start?
 
we could introduce a String in PHP7, objects and reading their properties got mucho faster, not that they were all that slow before, but I think definitely viable .. if you really wanted a consistent API, if you loose sleep over parameter order you could just use that ...
 
The day after you relocate to Manchester
Or start taking on remote workers
 
1:11 PM
:P Remote is reserved for international :)
Slowly all room 11'ers should start moving to Hampshire.
 
@tereško that's not a bad thing...
 
well .. that's my quarter-tea-cup solution
 
@tereško Can you elaborate on 3)?
also, we already have 1), no?
 
@DaveRandom Do we?
Was it included in 5.6?
 
Pretty sure
 
1:15 PM
@NikiC If you have time, could you please review this function?
 
@SecondRikudo 3v4l.org/Y4j1X
 
I can't believe people think it's really a solution to have two versions of the same functions calls all the way through their application ...
 
@DaveRandom Okay then
 
that's not a solution at all ... that would be an actual nightmare ...
 
@JoeWatkins Whoa. Didn't know SO had chatrooms.
 
1:16 PM
@MattStauffer one of the worlds best kept secrets
 
@JoeWatkins PHP is usually aimed at users who think this is a good idea out of obliviousness,
 
@JoeWatkins seconded
welcome @MattStauffer
 
Thanks @ircmaxell!
Any chance I could use a client (IRC etc.) with this? Or is it web-only
 
@JoeWatkins quick, delete the tweet before others find out! (just kidding)
 
1:18 PM
who needs irc when you have so-chat?
 
It's web only, it uses websockets + HTTP POST
 
@MattStauffer Web only
 
@MattStauffer this is web only
 
OK, thanks.
 
but if you use IRC a lot, you can also try #phpinternals on freenode, not as busy, but a bunch of people idle in there
 
1:18 PM
There have been numerous attempts to build alternative clients, not sure if any of them have ever been successful
 
@DaveRandom not sure. Probably it would involve something like:
if (PHP_VERSION >= 8) {
    use Array\* as Core\*;
    use String\* as Core\*;
}
 
I try to idle everywhere I go ...
 
... just spit-balling here
 
@ircmaxell Got it, will do.
 
@DaveRandom I'm still trying to find the time to implement an IRC server with the capabilities or connecting to chat and displaying messages from there
 
1:20 PM
@tereško for that you'd need to import *... Which means some sort of module system
which may be the answer to it all...
 
maybe ... =/
 
@JoeWatkins @ircmaxell OK, so.. my question RE: participation in internals.. do I just spit the whole thing out here? (just don't want to be disruptive)
 
@SecondRikudo Yeh I kicked that around but the problem is with postback, you'd end up with every message being posted back to SO under the same user account, which would be messy
 
@MattStauffer you can't disrupt chaos, shoot ...
 
1:21 PM
If a dependency is injected in a class, that class holding the dependency can alter it via functions declared in the dependency, right?
 
I couldn't come up with a sane OpenID workflow to allow IRC users to authenticate against SO
(and why would you?)
 
@ircmaxell as I said - any solution, that I can come up with, would require several additions to language itself .. and for it to work, PHP core team would need to have long term plan
 
I'm more interested in the idea of an Android/iOS native app
Which is totally doable but a huuuuuuge job
 
@DaveRandom Does OpenID protocol have a provision for such a loop? ;-)
 
@tereško which is fine, as any simpler solution, if it existed, would have been proposed
 
1:22 PM
@DaveRandom That!
 
@Ja͢ck It would be doable but hacky
I think
ages since I looked at it
 
php-internals do not really do "long term"
 
@tereško the plan bit... yeah...
 
on the contrary, we do very long term ... :)
just not in the future.
 
I will eventually come back to the mobile app idea, but I've asked the SE devs before and they (understandably) will not commit to a static protocol or an adequate rollout warning system when they change it, so it would likely break, like, a lot
 
1:23 PM
it's kinda what FreeBSD core team did for multi-core implementation
it stated with freebsd 5.x and was completed in freebsd 8.x (i think) .. that's about 4 years of moving towards a specific goal
 
@JoeWatkins I spend most of my time/energy in the community teaching folks how to one-up their code. Helping CodeIgniter/ExpressionEngine/Wordpress/etc. devs learn Composer, actual OOP, design patterns, etc... Most of them are so far from connection to internals or anything here that even the idea of reading RFCs is crazy. (cont)
@JoeWatkins ... 98% of them are solo dev or part of a very small team, so it's unlikely they--or I--can commit a lot of time to participating, but I still want to see what it looks like to encourage good PHP-community citizenship among them, and in myself. Wanted to get y'all's thoughts about that.
 
@DaveRandom the issue with an irc/SO bridge would be the flood...
 
@MattStauffer They aren't likely to care about what happens on internals either, for the most part. Docs would be a far better way to contribute in terms of ease-of-access to usefulness ratio, and it's also a good way in to understand how the php.net systems work and what can usefully be done. The sadists will find internals in their own time, and documenting stuff is also a good way to help crystalise your ideas about what is missing/wrong with the thing you are documenting. My $0.02.
 
@DaveRandom Thanks! I think by "internals" i really just mean "PHP stuff other than just using a framework somewhere and writing blog posts about it", if that makes sense.
 
1:29 PM
@MattStauffer none of us really give it a bunch of time, we all have day jobs, and or children, and significant others, and or cats ... it's not really about setting apart a chunk of the day so you can participate ... it's more about having a proactive attitude, so that rather than sitting round a table at lunch time whining at each other about how crappy _____ is, they actually put forward solutions, whether that means coming forward with a new feature request, a patch, or more than likely
 
@FlorianMargaine My personal view is that it a) wouldn't really work and b) wouldn't really gain anyone anything. Any platform where you have a decent IRC client, you also have a decent web browser, and an IRC client wouldn't really handle the web-UI goodies like stars and tracked replies etc
 
spending some time working on documentation ...
 
@MattStauffer If anyone came to me and asked how to get involved I would tell them to start here and here
 
@MattStauffer I think being a good community citizen is simply doing what you're doing. Helping others. Sometimes that means coming down to internals to posit an opinion or discuss something you want/don't want. Sometimes that means going to a user group and talking. Sometimes that means trying to help someone one-up their code. Not everyone needs to (nor should) get involved in internals. But we do need to tear down walls and come together more. And that's I think a fine start...
 
Also markdown would present a severe usability problem in most IRC clients @FlorianMargaine
 
1:32 PM
@DaveRandom well, they've managed to put out an SO app that's not too shabby .. so one can hope there's somebody who simply loves chat as well :)
 
Hence my general feeling that a mobile app would be both more practical and more useful
 
@DaveRandom I can see how some people would prefer IRC goodies, like being able to set up a ZNC bouncer, to web-UI goodies
 
@ircmaxell also true
 
@Ja͢ck The SE guys make no pretence that they like chat, they see it as a necessary evil but they don't really devote any dev hours to it. Unless that's changed, but I doubt it has based on the historical conversations I've had in the Tavern...
 
:(
 
1:35 PM
Thanks @DaveRandom, @ircmaxell, @JoeWatkins. Folks in my space, and esp. those I teach, are not gonna write patches. Or fix bugs. Or, likely, submit feature requests. That's like 201 kinda stuff. I'm talking more 101. Is 101 writing docs, then? Any good resources (blog posts, etc.) to get people started there? Just pointing someone at the docs login screen doesn't sound like it'd get far... at least in my world.
 
@salathe ^^ ?
 
@PaulCrovella Yeh but a bouncer doesn't have the same value here as it does in IRC, I can't see where you are because I'm not communicating with you directly, and I presume you don't mind SE knowing that since you're prepared to visit the main site... there's always TOR
 
@ircmaxell Yah, it's just conversations like you and @JoeWatkins and I had this morning on Twitter that makes me say... OK, I have a bunch of people who are like "internals don't understand us", and then internals people saying "look if you want to be understood, then join!" ... and I think there's a huge disconnect, because the people I'm talking abotu don't even know how to BEGIN connecting to this world. I don't even know.
 
@DaveRandom the bridge could handle that
 
if you do work in the kind of environment where you do hear a lot of groans, then seems better to encourage involvement ... it's not a very big leap from whining about stuff in PHP that should be (documented or implemented) better, that you could effect ... and whining about stuff in their own code that should be better, using the aforementioned stuff in PHP that is perceived as inconsistent, as fallacious justification ...
 
1:37 PM
@MattStauffer well, then it's up to people like you to fill that gap. Because you have both the knowledge and the ability...
 
@DaveRandom they did spend a couple hours recently
to make the kick stuff
 
@MattStauffer The bugs page I linked to are "documentation problem" bugs, in other words it's largely a list of things to do in the docs :-)
 
I guess the solution we used in js didn't suit them...
 
I'm not saying you have to do it, just saying that it's a role that some of us try to play to varying degrees of success. So having more people who can do, will be better
 
@DaveRandom OH. :) Sorry! I'll look.
 
1:37 PM
@MattStauffer is it because of lack of interest? or fear? or imposter syndrome? or just ignorance about contributing?
 
@ircmaxell Yah. I'm here because I'm hoping to help fill the gap, but I'm super overwhelmed with knowing where to start. :)
 
I know that 90% of developers I interacted with while working at various companies are just not interested...
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeh I blame @SecondRikudo for the recent flurry of activity there :-P (a load of stuff happened after the flag tracking thing was exposed)
 
@DaveRandom I know. And there's always another way of doing things. I see irc->so chat kinda like using an imap client to read gmail - it's not at all necessary and it gives up the goodies the web client provides, but people still have their valid reasons for doing it. Even if it's just to use a more familiar interface.
 
@DaveRandom flag tracking thing?
 
1:39 PM
@MattStauffer you've taken the first step, which is more than 98% of people do. So thank you for that
 
@DaveRandom thank @rlemon about that :D
 
@ircmaxell here, here ...
 
@Ocramius All of the above. A) Imposter syndrome hits us all for sure... B) Folks in my world know that just reading and understanding RFCs/internals convos is hard enough, let alone contributing... C) Ignorance is a huge thing. I'm really hoping to just come in here and say "look guys I have no idea what I'm doing"... and then learn.. and then blog about it. :)
 
@SecondRikudo yeh the thing where you could tell who flagged stuff (I don't really blame you, btw)
 
@DaveRandom For once, I can't kick anyone here, and second, I thought they disabled that already
The extension me and PeeHaa did stopped working after an update to chat removed the flagger ID
 
1:40 PM
Yeh they did, that was the point
 
@ircmaxell Thanks, honestly even TWEETing at y'all provokes all the stuff @Ocramius was talking about. Y'all can often seem unapproachable.. because c'mon, I don't even understand half of this language, let alone understanding enough to CONTRIBUTE to it.. so we just stay away.
 
@MattStauffer What specifically are you looking for? We do have a brief introduction to edit.php.net at wiki.php.net/doc/editor and a (hopefully) comprehensive tutorial for contributing to the documentation at doc.php.net/tutorial, if those might help.
 
That they've actually fixed some stuff in chat recently
 
@salathe Sweet. I'll check out both and see if it's enough to get me up and running, and then bug y'all if it's not. Honestly, prior to 15 minutes again (in here) I didn't even know that "contributing to the docs" was a thing that was a good entry spot. :)
 
1:41 PM
@MattStauffer I mainly got involved because Beberlei told me to "fuck it, just do it"
 
@DaveRandom in the js room, we had our own system to work around the fact we couldn't kick anyone. We gave read/write access to everyone (using the bot), and removed this access for the only occasion we had. We had a huge access list...
 
@salathe great, was looking for something ... @MattStauffer this is definitely the place to start, documentation maintenance consists of editing xml files, anyone should be able to handle that ...
 
and at the time, he was my main software development idol :P
 
@Ocramius haha, nice!
 
seriously, you just need a kick
no nice words, just a kick to throw you in the pit.
 
1:43 PM
@JoeWatkins OK.. so would y'all be comfortable if I were to write up a blog post saying: "Hey PHP devs, if you want to be more involved and connected to the core of what's going on in PHP/internals/etc., the best entrance spot is to get into docs maintenance.. here's quick walkthrough of how to do it" etc.?
 
@MattStauffer Fundamental problem with abstraction layers is that most of the users of the higher layers don't understand the lower ones and, often, most of the people who actually understand the lower layers don't use the higher ones. There's no easy solution to the fact that this by its very nature breeds a situation where some of the people who make it work are pretty out of touch with the people who know how it should work :-(
 
@MattStauffer There's also the #php.doc channel on IRC (EFNet) but that can be a bit hit-or-miss with regards to someone being there to chat with. (Meaning: it's better to idle in there than fly-by a question)
 
@DaveRandom Yah, I think that's part of what I was trying to say on Twitter this morning... I want space for the users of the abstractions/fws to understand the lower level stuff, and also give them (including me) a space to feel like they're understood at the lower level, and can participate.
 
@MattStauffer part of that made me a bit sad ... we are extremely approachable, even people I don't like and who don't like me, will provide me with an answer to any question I ask ... we're extremely approachable, but when we're out in public, trying to engage the community, like the incredible hulk we are like a raw nerve ...
 
@MattStauffer I wouldn't pitch it as "the best entrance spot"... but it's certainly something most folks should be capable of doing (unlike... learning C)
 
1:45 PM
@JoeWatkins I don't think I would say "unapproachable" as in like "mean" or "condescending".. more like you would see your programming idol as unapproachable, or like someone who wrote a programming language you use. Or the person who invented the OS you're using. When there's such a huge disconnect in what you do/think/etc., how do you even know to talk to anyone? Know what I mean?
 
if I'm going to approach anyone at all, it would be those people ...
 
@salathe haha, ok, so assuming learning C is off the table.. is there a better entrance spot for people with the desire to participate in the community? But who don't have the entirety of RFC history memorized, who maybe aren't at the point where they have all the pros and cons of PHP's syntaxes and development plans understood so well that they feel like they know what is even worth RFC-ing
 
hmm ... lately I've come to conclusion, that the most important "next big feature" for PHP would be getting rid of the "newsgroup" as the primary project management tool. You know, at least bring the PHP to year 2000. That whole "newsgroup" shtick is creating an artificial wall for entry.
 
@JoeWatkins I wonder if that's why you made it somewhere like this, then? (serious question) Because a lot of devs are only ever willing to approach someone within X levels of their own perceived level
 
@MattStauffer I guess that depends on "the community"... you don't have to be directly involved with php.net projects to be part of the community. :)
 
1:48 PM
@MattStauffer well, that's the exact perception that a lot of us want to get rid of. Sure, for my ego it's great to feel that way. But it does nobody any good other than that.
 
@salathe Yah, I guess I mean.. PHP internals/core/.net/whatever the heck "php" means. I know how to talk to them about UG involvement, contributing to frameworks, mentoring younger devs, etc.. just not.. THIS space. :)
 
@MattStauffer Give this a read when you get a minute or two: prog21.dadgum.com/143.html
 
@MattStauffer if you want to pitch it as "a great way of getting involved"... by alllll means do so! :D
 
@ircmaxell Will do. Thanks!
@salathe :) Got it, will do.
 
@MattStauffer if you do post it, please be sure to drop a link in here. We'll promote it and give it the attention it needs. :-)
 
1:50 PM
being meek isn't allowed to be an excuse ... I'm intimidated by everything and everyone, I run (hundreds of miles) away from stuff all the time, I done it like last week ... I have no idea how other people see things, but I'm more afraid of other people than they are of me ...
we will do that ...
 
@ircmaxell Will do. I think it'll be a while.. this is step 1 to understanding the culture/etc, and I think I need to give it a bit of time before I write a blog post proclaiming it as "THE way to get involved." But when I do, I will. :)
 
PHP 5.3 to 5.4
> realpath() is now fully platform-independent. Consequence of this is that invalid relative paths such as FILE . "/../x" do not work anymore.
So in some code, I see:
$dir = realpath(dirname(__FILE__).'/../../lib');
 
whoops
 
Is that a BC issue?
 
dirname(dirname(__DIR__)) . '/lib' :)
 
1:52 PM
@Jimbo otherwise known as realpath(__DIR__ . "/../../lib")
 
@ircmaxell Yep. It says "Consequence of this is that invalid relative paths"... what if it's valid?
confused
 
I'm out, because offspring and education, lata ...
 
@JoeWatkins Hm, I think some of it might have to do with not just personal meekness, but fear of hearing "you don't know enough, come back once you've learned ABC"
 
@MattStauffer well, it doesn't have to be "THE". It can be "A". It can be about a whole host of things. But we're always here, and we're quite open... So :-D
 
@JoeWatkins Thanks for your time/input!
 
1:54 PM
@Jimbo The point being that /foo/bar/file.ext/../ is not a valid relative path
 
@ircmaxell :) Sure. But this whole world is so foreign that I'll need to at least have a little bit of force behind the recommendation: "I recommend that if you want to get involved, this is the best way to do it" kinda thing. But I hear you. :)
 
definitely
:-)
 
in a sentence: dirname(__FILE__) . '/' is safe and valid, __FILE__ . '/../' is not @Jimbo
Also I seem to remember there being some weirdness on Windows with multiple stacked dirname() calls and realpath, I forget what it was though
much better
 
@MattStauffer The one thing I would add here is that if you get involved, it might help you to advise others as you will have walked the road yourself :-)
 
1:58 PM
apparently school run in an hour ... why can i never remember what day it is ...
 
btw, I should point out that I still have no clue on how PHP docs work :P
nor plan to learn using them in the future
 
@JoeWatkins gfdi now I have the stupid "days of the week" song off Charlie's educational CD in my head
I blame you
 
@DaveRandom Exactly! That's why it's gonna take a while to blog, because I need to do it all first before I can write about it. :)
 

« first day (1458 days earlier)      last day (3505 days later) »