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02:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

2:31 AM
hi
why :None return all list ?
>>> range(5)[:None]
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
 
The slice notation [:None] creates a slice object
well, actually, technically it may not... but
:None as slice notation basically means, from the beginning to the end
It's the same as range(5)[:]
 
I understand
 
@Juan how ya been anyway?
 
fine, thanks. you ?
 
bananas ty :)
sleep appears to be eluding me though
 
2:41 AM
when I can't sleep, I shutdown the computer and I try read something.
;)
 
Computer's can be shutdown!? This is news to me ;)
 
maybe some about story is a good idea
 
all my books are in the loft... and I'm not climbing up there to get 'em at nearly 4am :)
 
Hi, so...I did that stupid thing...Drop 'tablename', how can I create it again without restarting the DB with all its data? I'm using django
 
@chaim you dropped it directly with some db client?
 
2:45 AM
yes, PgAdmin 3
 
@chaim not 100% with Django, but have you tried ./manage.py syncdb ?
 
Yeah, I've tried it
and it's not creating it
 
are you using south?
 
yea, I've also tried ./manage.py syncdb --all
 
2:48 AM
how many tables do you have?
 
32
 
why the heck did you drop a table from pgadmin!? :(
 
drop, truncate...I miss xD
 
is the database large?
 
If it were a simple Table, I'll try to create it by SQL hand
but it's a ManyToManyF***Models
not too much really
 
2:54 AM
The brute force would be to 1) pg_dump your DB, 2) drop the entire DB and then create it again, 3) use manage.py to sync the DB, 4) pg_restore the data
 
60k rows
 
oh, it's tiny then
dump it, drop it, create it and restore it then
 
thanks, I'll try it
maybe ./manage migrate between 3 and 4?
only 6MB :)
just for curiosity, when a db starts to be small/medium/big/big+ ..
for you, I'm know is quite opinionated
 
3:13 AM
?
cbg @davidism
 
cbg
 
@chaim I normally work with databases that are 10tb+ in clusters... 6mb and 60k rows is not something I'd sweat at :)
 
how is it possible, that distutils.core.setup() places the files to somewhere else (/usr/local/lib/python....) but distutils.sysconfig.get_python_lib() returns some other place (/usr/lib/python....) ?
and this is only happening on Ubuntu, not on Mac or Arch
 
@Peter what are you still doing up? :p
 
@JonClements trying to fix my wannabe-cross-platform setup.py?
 
3:21 AM
Mind you - what am I still doing up sighs
 
@JonClements also a good question, yes
 
Good lyrics... (mostly) - so you'll probably hate it @Peter :)
 
@Peter Arch "unified" some of the base tree, but Ubuntu still distinguishes between system and user installed, under the confusing /usr and/usr/local.
 
@JonClements I'm not hating good lyrics -- I'm hatin Neil Diamond :)
@davidism that makes sense -- but what is the solution then?
 
BLASPHEMY GOOD SIR... PISTOLS AT DAWN
 
3:23 AM
is there a workaround?
 
thanks @Jon
 
@JonClements :P
 
You could look at os.path.basename(__file__) from an installed package.
 
@davidism but I am the one, who is trying to install things..
 
Have you tried setuptools?
 
3:25 AM
oh, you mean, search for a module which I know exists?
 
I don't really know, just throwing things out there.
 
@davidism :D:D:D
 
I think some packages hard code some os detection
 
@davidism nope, I don't want to bring in 3rd party tools here -- my installation should be dead-simple
copy some python files to the site-packages
(ofc compile them to bytecode, etc -- what distutils does)
 
@davidism may I ask what's happening with Crow's PR ?
 
3:28 AM
and btw it is working on non-debian based systems
 
He was working on it today, we were in a separate chat: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/59817
 
well -- I tried only Ubuntu, but will try Mint soon
 
@davidism thanks
 
I'm really not trying to delay it or anything, just want him to learn well from this one so he can do more in the future.
I'm working on some stuff as well, but work has been really hectic, and I was moving too. Should be more productive next week.
 
I should start pulling my weight at some point... but just ugh snowed under
Stewie's working (with Antti I think) on nidaba
you're leading the main site dev - awesome
I'll focus on RABBIT in the next few days, and then @Peter can have his love back :)
 
3:33 AM
yeah, I've seen them adding resources and experimenting, very exciting
 
@JonClements YAYAYYAYYayyayayayyayyayAYYAYAYAayayayyayayYAYAYYAyayayayYYAYYA ;)
 
There's a bot in Tavern that has 1 rep, but can post.
 
@davidism I think nidaba is a very exciting project in general... if the team can pull it off... it's going to be awesome
 
Yeah - I've seen that - RABBIT was somewhat more sophisticated though
 
3:36 AM
They say they added it to the explicit write permission, but we tried that for low rep users and it didn't work...
 
115
Q: Room owners should be allowed to accept <20 rep users to talk in a room

Jon ClementsI'm a fairly heavy chat user - and I think for new users sometimes it's best to direct them to a room related to their question, whereby details can be thrashed out (avoiding a long stream of comments). Thereby, getting a question back into shape and answerable - possibly even answered and posted...

The whole permission system sucks really...
But rabbit has 131 rep or something...
I think it answered some question about sys.stdout... cough
Okay... we're only using 20% of disk on the server - that's not too bad
 
Hm...
@JonClements I do agree with you. I go vote for you bro.
Okay it is done.
 
3:57 AM
Thanks :)
 
4:13 AM
83
Q: Allow room owners to suspend users from a chat room

Jon ClementsI realise that the chat system is somewhat "removed" from the network and almost "subsidiary" to it - but I feel it's a very important part of the network and contributes back to the ethos that SE stands for. Thankfully, it happens rarely, but RO's should be able to ban/suspend users from their ...

And that's my other post about chat
rbrb for now... see everyone later today I guess
 
4:33 AM
distutils is officially (it is official by me) won the worst python-builtin-module API
it is just garbage, it really is..
they wanted to make it so easy, as a matter of fact desperately wanted to make it easy -- that the end result is just a big fucked up mess -- which is not that easy at all, but at least very limited :(
 
5:27 AM
haha
 
 
1 hour later…
6:53 AM
anyone knows any good wrapper for facebook graph api?
 
7:13 AM
Is Most of the required functionality is implemented grammatically correct?
 
7:54 AM
I'd say: 'Most of the functionality required is implemented' . Note: not native speaker
but i think both are correct
 
8:27 AM
@vaultah I'd say "most of the required functionality has been implemented"
Cbg() btw
 
Yeah, this seems like a better option. cbg()
 
Lo!
 
 
2 hours later…
10:02 AM
@Ffisegydd has ufoguy visited this chatroom after the ban?
 
10:14 AM
@Swordy no.
 
10:26 AM
Why was he banned?
 
Racist comments.
 
Oh, seems legit
 
So he was suspended for 2 weeks and hasn't been back since.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:00 PM
Done
 
cbg
hmm what did ufoguy say? :D
 
dumb github question -- if you make a PR, then make a commit to the branch that you put in for the PR, does it update the PR?
 
how is it dumb?
I am not sure
After your pull request is sent, any new commits pushed to your branch will automatically be added to the pull request. This is especially useful if you need to make more changes.
so it references the branch head
@corvid ^
 
it's just dumb cause I know Stash does that, just wasn't sure on github
 
3:14 PM
cbg
 
Yo @Jon ;)
 
well, my internal clock is well and truely fscked.... how ya doing Good/Evil/whatever @Ian :)
 
does a try block always have to be followed by an except?
 
@Jon I'm good (and indifferent Ian today) TY, you? Yeh, I noticed you were on here until gone 5 you lunatic
 
@Ian I think "lunatic" is a good summary of me - so I'll take it :)
Waiting for the new Dr Who episode... come on time... move faster for once
 
3:20 PM
Hi,
How to import tkinter module?
>>> import tkinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named tkinter
 
Are you on Python 2.x ?
 
which version of python?
 
2.x
 
TKinter then
 
(use import sys; (sys.version))
 
3:22 PM
>>> import TKInter
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named TKInter
 
I edited to remove the capital "I"...
 
>>> import TKinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named TKinter
 
@JonClements yeh my GF just reminded me too, hope it's not poo
I love the new guy from The Thick Of It
 
@AvinashRaj okay... it's import Tkinter
 
I did interviews all Friday... still no luck finding a really good front end guy :(
 
3:24 PM
@Ian awww..... did you get some talent through the day at least?
 
@JonClements works,,
 
@JonClements I found some people that were capable of doing a for loop this time!
 
for 3.X?
 
(In JS)
 
@AvinashRaj you can see why they bothered renaming it to tkinter for consistency in 3.x :)
@Ian a for loop? That's some advanced stuff there... Throw in some if statements and by cabbage you're got a genius there! :p
 
3:27 PM
@Jon, yeh... :( - It gets tiresome when you look through so many CVs of people with "15" years experience who just can't code :(
I'm finding it hard to find out who's good when I see loads of projects worked on (bcos contractors) but the average length is like 4-8 weeks
And they just point to sites like BBC and say "I did that"
And I'm thinking... mhmm in 8 weeks
 
Oh, my first tkinter script works..
#!/usr/bin/python3
from tkinter import Label
widget = Label(None, text='Hello World')
widget.pack()
widget.mainloop()
 
@Ian ironically... if one was capable of producing the BBC website in 8 weeks, that person would not be wanting a job at your company :)
 
@JonClements no I expect not!
 
A team of 100 well coordinated and extremely talented devs could probably do the a first draft of the BBC website in 8 weeks... it's certainly not a one man band job :)
 
lol and that's what I'm getting at, instead of saying "I did this one tiny component, look at it in detail" - they just make a sweeping "I worked on this" remark, which for me is as good as squat
 
3:39 PM
Thankfully... I get work from word of mouth
As I focus mostly on the back-end side of things... I can't even say "I worked on this website"...
 
Yep, I just don't know any great front end guys who are contractors
 
Two clients I'm contractually obliged to not publicly mention I even have a contract with :(
 
:)
 
How many people did you end up seeing in the end?
 
I saw 3 yesterday, we've seen another 4 I think
 
3:45 PM
I certainly don't miss having to do interviews... When you're going to be paying someone a reasonable chunk of dosh, you have to get it right...
Use to do 4 hour interviews...
They come in... show 'em the kitchen, grab 'em a tea/coffee etc... introduce them to the members of the team they might be working in... put 'em in the middle of the office for general chit chat
then, into my office for a bit more of a formal discussion and technical questions
 
@JonClements yeh that's pretty similar to what I'm doing, but over an hour an a half
 
then, introduce them to other senior members of staff and the accounts & clients team - and one of them would sit with them for 10/15 mins and go through what they did and how it interacted with what the dev team did etc...
 
Yeh I did a full day interview with one company, was nice
 
I'd then go over the technical test stuff, we'd spend a little time going through stuff I had any queries on/felt needed elaborating on...
Then we'd invite them to lunch...
@Ian I kind of ended up taking on not experts - but people with potential, willing to learn, that fitted in with the team etc... rather than the obviously remarkably good people technically, but wouldn't make eye contact with anyone kind of thing
 
@JonClements yeh I know what you mean, but we need people on 5 month contracts, not perm
so we need them to hit the ground running
 
3:55 PM
I hear ya... still... anything over a month, I'd want to be able to get on with them
 
@JonClements yeh agree, we had to turn one guy down on that basis
We we're in the crappy situation of needing someone really good and that we get on with :D
 
I (not that often) also do "emergency" team leads
 
@corvid how's that pr looking?
 
cbg all
 
cbg
 
3:58 PM
@Ian so a company asks for some help, I step in, break a department down and build it back up... it's occasionally fun :)
@Ffisegydd STEWIE!!!!!!!!!!
 
@Jon BRIIIIIIIIIIAN!
 
I want Dr Who to be on now :( meep meep
 
Wow... haven't been on slashdot for years :)
Use to be my go-to website while stuff was "compiling" :)
 
4:37 PM
@davidism I put in a commit last night
Although, I'm a little hesitant without tests, but I suppose that's another concern entirely.
 
that's annoying, I don't get a notification when new commits are added to a pr
I'll take a look
You missed 2 of my comments: end all files with newline, and use has_group instead of current_user.has_group.
You can configure Sublime or PyCharm to add newlines automatically.
 
I'm using sublime atm, how do that?
 
@Ffisegydd it's £10 off on pre-order: store.steampowered.com/app/65980
 
Ooooh
 
add "ensure_newline_at_eof_on_save": true to your preferences file
 
4:47 PM
We are so going to have to get that and have a game Stewie!
 
Yeah definitely.
 
And Civ 5 is on offer for £4.99
that's tempting
After this fraud case is over, I'll certainly be getting a few games...
 
hey just a small question on R (i know this is the python room)
 
...
There's an R room Swordy.
Swordy this is the Python room, Python questions only please.
 
gives me none , @Ffisegydd that is deserted
ohh sorry
you can trash it
:)
i did it..
 
4:53 PM
has anyone tried Archeage?
 
@Ffisegydd I recently purchased a parrot from this room... I think it's dead... can I ask about that? :p
 
Cheeseshop would have been a good name for the room
 
pypi use to be named cheeseshop :)
 
Yeah
 
Come on Dr...
One hour, forty seven minutes... COME ON!!!
 
5:17 PM
1hr33mins... I need to stop clock watching
 
Heh.
One of your clients is about to ring.
"Someones knocked the servers offline Jon, fix it now!"
 
Screw 'em... the phone's on divert to voicemail already... Life has priorities you know!
"Sorry - I can't fix your servers that are critical to your business making any money - I'm watching Dr Who" is a completely reasonable justification
 
@davidism what do you think to updating the sopython website with the latest version once corvid's PR is sorted? Call it 1.1 or something. Or do you have plans for some new stuff coming up that you'd prefer to wait for?
 
yep, going to update once it's in
 
Awesome.
 
5:24 PM
lemme just get on ubuntu real quick to make those changes, rbrb
 
Are we planning to do anything regarding tests and CI stuff?
 
I've got the "login without api key" in too, so others can develop a bit easier
I'm going to do something with pytest and tox
 
Tests are on the list
 
flask just converted their test suite to pytest, should have some good examples
 
I think tests and some simple dev docs so others can easily set it up and hack away on it would be good.
I spoke to Peter the other day as well.
 
5:26 PM
there's a flask release coming "very soon" according to Armin :)
 
He hasn't forgotten about looking at the design and is gonna get round to it once he's a bit less busy.
 
@Ffisegydd sounds good
 
I can write up some docs using sphinx, but I think tests might take more than a day or two to get right
 
I'm screwed on time until after Tuesday, but I'm going to try and pull my weight and get RABBIT back
 
I saw you discussing Nidaba this morning. Me and Antti have been having general discussions about ML, what he's doing with Twitter, and Nidaba. I've also been reading up on stuff but no code has actually been written yet.
Once I've moved house in a few days time t'missus is away for 2 weeks so I should have some time to sit down and get on some stuff.
 
5:29 PM
Actually... Peter won't like me for saying so, but I'll push rabbit back a bit
 
First things first is to get the database updating using the websockets.
 
instead... I'll get back the real-time thingy back
 
And to get it up to date (as it's currently sat at 5th May IIRC) using the API
Then once the database is in a place where it's self-sufficient and updating itself we can think about writing some models to use with the data.
 
@Ffisegydd okay... I'll do the real-time stuff
I've got functional but rubbish code somewhere that was only to test an idea, more than be really used, so I'll dig it up and re-write it properly
 
I need to whip up some code to use the API to get up to date (taking the latest date and getting all from then or some such)
Then we can use that code to get up to date and then the real-time stuff to keep up to date
 
5:34 PM
I'll write some doc stuff on Wednesday/Thursday - I have a fairly clear idea on how I want the real-time stuff to integrate with the rest of the project
 
We've been working with Python 3.4 so far, ideally we'd keep using that (which will affect your choice of libraries as some don't have Python 3.x IIRC?)
 
For the RT stuff autobahn will happily use asyncio... so not an issue there
 
Ah cool
 
pushed changes to sopy
 
The scipy-stack is fully up to date with 3.4 and someone has written a Python 3 fork of the Vowpal Wabbit Python wrapper if we decide to use that.
 
5:37 PM
@Ffisegydd if there are issues, then it's a separate process anyway... so it can run in whatever virtualenv it needs if that arises...
 
@corvid ok
 
Ok cool. I suppose we could then just have something listening for new additions to the database (to run them through Nidaba itself and check them for quality)
 
@Ffisegydd we can use redis as a pub/sub or even celery and rabbitmq... I need to think about it
 
Whatever you decide. We can even leave mongodb and use postgresql or something, whichever you think will be easiest to move forward with. I don't mind learning any new techniques as they'll no doubt come in handy.
 
I have a celery setup for flask if you want to go with that. And it would be really nice to unify the models and api from the site with nidaba. :)
 
5:43 PM
Ultimately (as I see it)... we're going to end up with some Hadoop/Hive/Cassandra set up
 
Would it be easier to use that from the beginning or is this more of the prototyping stage?
Before using the big guns?
 
A mongo/postgres combo will work absolutely fine for the initial stages
But using other DB technologies will ultimately be far more efficient
 
buh, I've come across a really weird problem and not sure how to handle it
 
We'll most likely also want a graph database
 
Cbg
 
5:46 PM
cbg @mamasi
(that's for storing relationships between interactions and such)
And then probably, have some completely independent process as some sort of restful API that the other services use to access it
 
The site doesn't really need to share the data model with nidaba, it's mostly concerned with display of some specific data about users and questions. Can always talk to nidaba separately.
 
what do you mean by "graph database"?
 
Site loads questions, asks nidaba, "is question <id> going to be closed", and now we have a page that shows question health.
 
@davidism yup... when I build sites, I normally build an API first, then use that API to build the consumer facing part of the site... so yeah :)
In computing, a graph database is a database that uses graph structures with nodes, edges, and properties to represent and store data. A graph database is any storage system that provides index-free adjacency. This means that every element contains a direct pointer to its adjacent elements and no index lookups are necessary. General graph databases that can store any graph are distinct from specialized graph databases such as triplestores and network databases. == Structure == Graph databases are based on graph theory. Graph databases employ nodes, properties, and edges. Nodes represent entities...
 
oh, you mean a computer science graph
 
5:58 PM
@Ffisegydd @davidism okay... I'll think about the DB side for the real-time stuff - write some notes up in the week, that we can review, and go from there I guess?
 
sure
 
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