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lmo
1:23 AM
 
lmo
1:34 AM
probably delete
probably delete
delete Base graphics verses grid graphics.
 
1:51 AM
@lmo i wish I had the power to delete
 
 
5 hours later…
7:02 AM
@RonakShah no worries, you'll get there
 
@Jaap sure...not in a hurry at all :)
Good morning BTW
 
7:22 AM
Morning all
 
7:46 AM
Hello
 
7 messages moved to Trash can
Not self promoting but I am really curious if somebody has a better answer here , my answer seems trashy.
 
47 messages moved to Trash can
 
@RonakShah No easy task but interesting :)
 
@Sotos I agree. After posting the answer I spent another 20-30 mins trying to optimize it but wasn't successful. :/
 
ahh...can't get it (more efficiently than your method)... gotta go back to work though...Can't get suck by it now :).
 
8:57 AM
R needs a function where when we do 5 %in% list(c(3, 4,5), c(1, 2, 3), 5) should return #[1] TRUE FALSE TRUE
 
I second that... ^... like lengths()
 
9:19 AM
@RonakShah maybe just: mapply(%in%, 5, list(c(3, 4,5), c(1, 2, 3), 5)) ?
 
ahhh..how did I forget mapply??? Let's see if I can implement it in that answer. Thanks @Jaap :)
 
%in% is not a primitive function so you can also use argument matching with lapply(): lapply(list(c(3, 4, 5), c(1, 2, 3)), %in%, x = 5)
 
9:34 AM
@Jaap ohh..wait but the input in that question has multiple elements
so basically I was trying something like list(c(3, 4,5), c(1, 2, 3), 5) %in% c(3, 4) should return #[1] TRUE TRUE FALSE
 
9:47 AM
@RonakShah maybe:
l <- lapply(list(c(3, 4, 5), c(1, 2, 3), 5), `%in%`, x = c(3,4))
sapply(l, any)
or:
 colSums(sapply(list(c(3, 4, 5), c(1, 2, 3), 5), `%in%`, x = c(3,4))) > 0
 
@Jaap yes..that's what I am doing currently, iterating over each list element applying %in%
 
10:46 AM
@RonakShah DocendoDiscimus made a good comment about igraph in there. I am not very familiar with that package though...I think @zx8754 is...?
 
10:59 AM
@Sotos I think there's way to use a directed graph where each list entry is a node connected to the slice 'nodes', as such you may tell which list node are connected to what.
graph_from_adj_list sounds a good candidate :p
 
 
2 hours later…
2:25 PM
 
Uwe
3:20 PM
@Frank, Any idea why the by = .EACHI is slower than the cartesian product, here?
 
3:30 PM
@Uwe maybe because c(period = period, lapply(.SD, sum)) doesn't get GForce. could do period[1] or first(period) instead, i think
 
3:56 PM
stupid question: if i want an error from L = list(a = 1); L[["b"]] do i have to do it myself, like if ("b" %in% names(L)) L[["b"]] else stop("nah") or is there some more direct way i'm missing?
sure would be nice to have x = L[["b"]] // stop("nah") or similar
 
@Frank maybe stopifnot
 
yeah, i'd still have to write a condition, though... maybe i need to write a getElement2 with this check to protect myself from the bugs i introduce
 
4:18 PM
@Frank get("b", L)
 
@BrodieG I think that's abusing get() because the intent of get is to retrieve values from environments
 
@Frank you need a libble 😜
2
 
@hadley I would say it's about as abusive as using [[ to retrieve an object from an environment.
 
@BrodieG I don't think so because [[ is a general subsetting operator; get() is specifically for environments. AFAICT the fact that a list works as input to pos is not documented
 
4:29 PM
@hadley envir defaults to as.environment(pos), so it's sorta documented
 
@hadley As per @alistaire this makes it a safe assumption as a breaking change would change the API. Agree it is not explicitly documented, but I disagree using get is an abuse.
 
sup @DavidRobinson just saw you in a MS video. You becoming famous by the minute
 
Although I think you do have a point that on a spectrum, get on a list is more abusive than [[ on a environment.
 
@DavidArenburg yeah I like that I got them to include some dplyr/ggplot2 on screen 😂
 
yeah, saw that
sneaky
 
4:34 PM
The code they show is pretty neat actually; it's which SE network sites are visited more on weekdays or weekends
 
to me the get() thing feels like "too clever code". Similarly I'm often tempted to write this sort of thing for concision but refrain from it: x || return("foo") or x %||% return("foo")
 
is that so hard to do?
 
@hadley heh, indeed, a new class ftw
 
or a new class to start a war on Tweeter about
 
@BrodieG hm, been doing $ on my environment a lot, never thought about its suitability
 
4:36 PM
@BrodieG It's ultimately unnecessary coercion, though; if you're working with a list, keep it a list
 
@alistaire It's a cheap coercion since the list contents aren't copied. I think the "this feels too clever" is a better argument against.
 
@lionel mostly agree, unless the element could be NULL, e.g. get('a', list('a' = NULL))
 
 
2 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
8:20 PM
in R, 5 mins ago, by hadley
@DirkEddelbuettel @RomanLuštrik could we change the room message to point to GMTs rather than R-public? There's more action there. (Please at least change chatrooms to chatroom so the message is grammatically correct)
in R, Nov 13 at 13:46, by David Arenburg
@BrodieG @RomanLuštrik I don't think GMTs should be linked here as it is read only and meant mainly for moderation proposes too
other opinions? i mean, we're not really looking to be a destination for everyone's r questions, not sure what additional traffic we would gain from that
certainly it being read-only seems like enough reason not to direct people here... @hadley
 
@Frank I guess I misunderstand the point of this room. It mostly seems like general R questions to me so far.
 
8:42 PM
Maybe the name/description of this room also needs some tweaking? It would be nice to at least mention R
 
the origins of this room to advance moderation during GMT office hours (especially the morning), but it quickly turned into moderation of the R-tag mostly
besides that, R related stuff / problems are discussed here regularly too
 
@hadley right, though sometimes it veers off to other topics. the main reason not to direct people here is because it's a "gallery" stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/gallery-chat-rooms so when someone with less than 1k rep lands here, they usually can't participate in chat. i guess most folks here keep an eye on r-public as well (you can see the most recent chat message in the sidebar), so if anyone goes from R chat to R-public, it'll reach roughly the same audience
 
@Frank why is it a gallery?
(also it seems fairly low friction to get access, so I'm not totally sure that's reason to not direct people here; although maybe getting 1k rep takes a while?)
 
from my experience, getting 1k does take a while :)
2
 
@Frank It was easier in the old days
 
8:49 PM
@hadley a gallery/rep barrier means we mostly get people who understand SO and are interested in moderation or just generally chatting. the obscure room name probably also helps. not sure what we'd expect to gain by opening it up more
if we want to help people debug r problems, we can meet them in r-public, after all
(i've done that a few times, directing people from the main site there)
 
Ok, in that case I think the R chartoom should mention both R-public (for R help) and GMTs (for SO chat). What do you think?
@Frank not in this context, but the disadvantage of an obscure name is that it might feel like you are trying to be deliberately secretive
 
9:04 PM
I have no real objection against being linked from the R-room (for now at least), but I'm not the only one to decide;
so, I like to hear some more opinions about it from other room owners / regular visitors
 
Given the amount of traffic R Public gets, opening it up doesn't seem like it would swamp it with traffic. OTOH, the moderation chat ("close"/"delete"/"tool"/etc.) isn't terribly welcoming to low-rep users (though important regardless), so R Public is in some ways a more useful place.
I vote for renaming, though; the current name isn't really representative, and I really only found this place because @DavidArenburg invited me. He's the person that really needs to weigh in on all this stuff, anyway.
 
@hadley hm, i'll wait to see what others here and there think. it's similar to the question of when to migrate questions across stackexchange sites. if the referral has a proven track record of success (fruitful q&a/chat), then it's arguably worth maintaining, but less so otherwise
also, i'm not sure if ROs in the other room are interested in endorsing this one; visitors often ignore the room description and it's up to, eg, Roman to direct them places: chat.stackoverflow.com/…
 
@Frank Dirk seems willing to list GMTs in the description
 
@alistaire re moderation discussions, if opening it up leads to some OPs coming here to complain before reading the reasons for closure, etc, that could be annoying. agree re David weighing in; i only learned of the room from him, too
 
@hadley Dirk disagrees with what you claim Dirk said.
 
9:13 PM
to be clear: I'm against opening up to low rep users; I'm not necessarily against linking in the R-room description
 
@DirkEddelbuettel Sorry for misunderstanding your comments in other chat room.
 
@hadley I think we should wait a bit (24h ?) to see if a consensus forms. Anyway, I not generally here but I am sure word with us over there too.
 
@Jaap ditto. no objection provided R ROs are fine with editing it out again if we ask. it will probably lead to almost no new traffic unless more twitter "call outs" are undertaken
 
luckily @RomanLuštrik is a regular visitor here ;-)
and as most of us have access to the R-room as well, it is easily asked
 
What about me now?
(just got back from python meetup, don't hit me)
 
9:22 PM
heh :)
 
Don't worry, I'm not jumping ship.
 
@RomanLuštrik we only would have if you were as an SPSS meetup ;-)
 
sec, lots to catch up in both rooms...
@hadley Why do you feel the rooms description is not clear enough? The main purpose of the room was for community moderation. R room was a bit strict (I broke some records there) so I've decided we need another room for that
the misleading name was on purpose in order to keep it off radar as it wasn't for R users rather for moderation only
Also, I'm not sure why R-Public isn't good enough for R users in general? It is open, it has a faq, it has moderators, it has a clear name- pretty much everything seem to be set up
I also think that if you want more traffic there you can just Tweet it once and you'll get all the R users on the globe there
Regardless of that, I don't really have a strong opinion about this room. I'll go with whatever the majority decides. I've actually asked a few times before if the guys want to make it public
 
@DavidArenburg the description is bad because it doesn't mention R at all, and it doesn't mention that the scope is largely chat about SO question not R itself (which is where I was confused)
 
going to get some sleep; see you all tomorrow
 
9:37 PM
@DavidArenburg I don't think there's any problem with R-public except that it's not very active
 
@hadley Hmm, what do you mean doesn't mention R at all?
It mentioned in the FAQ pretty often
 
@DavidArenburg the room description says: "General chat. Please read the FAQ if you want write access or room ownership davidarenburg.github.io/GMTs"
 
I just didn't think I need to write it both here and in the faq itself
 
@DavidArenburg it helps with search, and leads people to click on the FAQ
@DavidArenburg currently it feels like GMTs is a secret club
 
@hadley well, it was
not anymore I guess
which is fine
Also, I've actually also suggested to add the R tag a few times, but that was rejected
room topic changed to GMTs: General chat. Please read the FAQ for the rules or if you want write access or room ownership davidarenburg.github.io/GMTs (no tags)
@hadley Anyway, I'm open for suggestions regarding the rooms topic
 
9:45 PM
@DavidArenburg I'd suggest "General chat about SO R questions and related topics" or similar
 
Ok, so this wasn't the initial purpose at least. It was more like "General chat about any topic comes to mind + R tag moderation"
 
@hadley seems to imply those are the boundaries within which discussion must fall, but if people want to come here discussing python, spark, life, whatever, that's all within scope. maybe "General chat, often related to moderating the tag"
 
@Frank the first time I'm hearing you agreeing to add a tag to this room
I think I've suggested that few times in the past and you always were against it
 
@DavidArenburg yeah, that sounds like me. i wouldn't want it added in the tags field anyway
for some reason, i can't find the history chat.stackoverflow.com/search?q=tag+room&room=75819 but yeah we've discussed it before
 
10:06 PM
@hadley What it is that you are trying to achieve anyway?
If you want to help new users, they don't seem to be interested as there is no traffic at all in R-public
if you want to answer criticism from R/GMTs room, you are welcome to do so
I'm not sure really what's the problem at hand right now
3
 
@DavidArenburg There's no problem, I am trying to understand the purpose of this chat room
@DavidArenburg I'm just giving you suggestions based on my (limited) understanding of what the chat room discusses. I often find that it's easier to improve text when there's a concrete proposal on the table. Whether you like it or not, it's still useful information
 
@hadley Procrastination + R moderation
 
@DavidArenburg perfect!
 
The reason that this room was off the radar (or a "secret club") is so we can manually invite here people who already have the privileges to moderate instead of bringing all the R users
 
is it alright to hang out here even if I'm not interested in moderation but just in R chatter?
 
10:20 PM
@lionel yes, this is the Procrastination part
everything is OK here as long as you follow the few rules in the linked FAQ
in other words, once you get a write access, you can do/say pretty much whatever you want
even calling me an idiot is OK
 
doesn't that break rule number 2?
 
yeah, I was just being sarcastic
anyway, I think I should stop before it gets nasty again
 
@lionel I'm only here for the chatter. I'll chip in on closes / dupes, etc., to try to pay my way a little bit, but it's mostly everyone else that does the hard work (thanks guys, btw).
 
yes thanks! that does look like a lot of work
 
10:37 PM
@depperm You have write access, welcome
 
@Frank The page you linked to says that at 1k you earn the privilege to *create* galleries. Reading SO help, it seems that:
- anyone can read any chatroom (even if not logged in)
- from rep 20 you can talk in public rooms
- talking in a gallery room requires 2 conditions: rep>=20 + write access granted by RO
 
@Scarabee sorry, that is not what i meant. i was linking there for the definition of gallery. 1k is the bar we chose to set for write-access with no questions asked
we'll grant write access to lower rep people at the discretion of any of the ROs
 
ok!
 
@Scarabee :) btw, welcome to the room; don't think i saw you here before
 
Thanks, most of the time i'm actually just reading ;)
 
lmo
@RonakShah All in good time. You can also visit the low quality posts section of review and put on an [r] filter.
 

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