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10:00 PM
So the top one wont work for a comparison. The bottom two is the top broken apart, the left side of the intersection point, and the right side of it
those comparisons will be valid
 
Is the black triangle on the right side a right angled triangle?
 
yes, they all are
 
How does the bottom one work? I don't see how the intersection come into play. I have a feeling I am over thinking this
 
Paying attention to the hypotenuse, you can see where the blue and black line meet is the intersection.
 
hey guys I'm looking for a term
for an algorithm that either returns the correct answer or no answer
 
10:09 PM
@TravisJ Exactly, yeah. That intersections forms 3 triangles though.
 
@Lews - I meant in the bottom part. Where those bottom two triangles meet is the same as that intersection. The "third" triangle of that first image is the reason for splitting them up because it throws off the calculation.
That third triangle is not part of the area between those two lines
 
@TravisJ Ok, I understand that part. It actually looks like that image Kendall posted a while ago... Let me see if I can find it
 
Yes, Kendall's image is relevant there
 
Yeah, only compute the yellow area for the area between those two lines.
 
10:16 PM
@TravisJ So all the intersection point does is help us form the third side. Prevents us from going out of bounds really
 
Pretty much. It just helps to make sure that the case depicted in that image is avoided and guaranteed to not exist
 
Yeah, I think I get it now. I was trying to pick trapezoids without calculating an outside area.. you guys saw it pretty fast.
@TravisJ I think the algorithm might be a bit wrong..
The green triangle is calculating the outside area, isn't that what we are trying to avoid?
 
That isn't the outside triangle though, it is part of the area under the curve formed by the first 2 red dots. The yellow area is the area under the curve formed by the two black dots. Because the x1 and x2 values of both pairs of dots are the same, you can compare their areas under their respective curves. The difference of those areas is the area between the two.
 
Ell
10:31 PM
hi guys
 
@Lews - You can just omit the call to seedintersects and see if you get the same results
 
@TravisJ Nah I don't. The thing is using your logic above, I can pick triangles without the intersects.
Ah, yes. I see it... too prove I see it I will paste the picture.
The part that I squiggled the green marked on.. In between those two brown lines.
@TravisJ That is wrong because they represent different areas.
 
@LewsTherin so i take it u didnt go with th matrices solution?
 
What part is wrong?
 
How can I explain it.. there is a "lower area" and an "upper area". If I was to pick an area formed between the two brown lines I am calculating something wrong.
@HansRudel Finding the intersect is one line of code compared to using the matrices soln :P
 
10:40 PM
Kinda lost atm lol
 
@TravisJ mmn ok.. in between the two brown lines, containing the green squiggle
 
@LewsTherin if u have the interception part sorted, how come ur still stuck then. the interception part is the hardest part
 
I had to draw a lot of stuff on paper to verify that the intersect had to be found at one point. I am pretty sure that it can't be done in one pass but must be broken into two pieces at the intersect point.
 
@TravisJ You did it one pass..
 
@TravisJ?? howd u mean. Ur having difficulties knowin where an interception occureD?
 
10:43 PM
@Hans - Nah, the intersect was calculated fine. But I had to verify that it was necessary to find and use it to break everything apart.
@lews - I meant without seeding the intersection points
 
There are two areas as opposed to just one.
 
@TravisJ maybe im missing something here, but is it not just a matter of takin point 1 on both curves, find out which is higher. then take point 2 on both curves and if the highest at point one isnt still the highest a crossover occured?
 
The intersection point helps to split the areas in two!
 
@Lews - Correct, the lower function swaps and becomes the upper function at the intersection point.
That is why seeding the intersection point allowed us to find those two areas correctly.
 
@TravisJ I can't believe I didn't see that all these time. Omg
 
10:46 PM
:)
 
Thanks man, your patience is limitless :)
 
welcome :D
 
@HansRudel I was trying to figure out why we needed the intersection point.
 
ahh ok lol
so how did @TravisJ interception formula work?
 
But it appears that by ignoring the intersection point, I am still treating it as a normal case. Ugh, reminds me why I hate math lol
@HansRudel Check if they cross, find the slope of each line.
The slope helps to form an equation
y = m(x-x1)+y1 if IIRC
 
10:51 PM
yeah yeah, i can get the equations of the lines
just wondering how he equates them to find the interception point
 
I don't think there is an interception point.
Intercept and intersection point are different I think.
 
@TravisJ u still about?
@LewsTherin i dont follow how u can calc the areas without figuring where the interception point is
 
Yeah, the way to find that point is to solve the two equations by setting them equal and finding the x-intercept then plugging that value back into either equation to find the y-intercept of the two.
 
howd u solve them programatically though
(if programatically is a word)
 
  double x_int = (m1 * x1 - y1 - m2 * a1 + b1) / (m1 - m2);
                    double y_int = m1 * (x_int - x1) + y1;
So x and y intercept equals x and y point?
 
11:00 PM
id assume so
 
intersect = (x_int,y_int)
 
This guy has a more complicated way of doing it..
http://paulbourke.net/geometry/lineline2d/
 
He didn't get to assume that P1.x == P3.x nor that P2.x == P4.x
That helped a lot
valid assumptions are an easy way of reducing complexity
 
Ah yeah I see.
 
His way is still legit
although convoluted, I think we do the same thing to be honest
 
11:06 PM
@TravisJ lol i hadnt realised it was just the difference between Y-axis intercepts / the dif in ur gradients
 
@Hans - :D
 
first time i saw it i was thinking what the hell is m1*x1-y1 lmao
 
@HansRudel Uh?
I guess great computer scientists are excellent mathematicians
 
Ell
is your aim finding the area under the graph?
 
@Ell Yeah
 
Ell
11:08 PM
integrate?
 
what is computer science if not the science of computation :P
 
@LewsTherin that long equation u pasted in above, the first 3 terms are the point on the y-axis where the first line intercept it. next 3 are the same but for the other line
 
Ell
or rrapesium method
trapezium*
 
@TravisJ i never studied comp science
 
@Ell - Yeah, that is the approach which was used.
@Hans - Lot of math involved :( I like math, but there was a point when it became a little intrusive to take.
 
11:10 PM
can imagine
 
@HansRudel What first three terms? Is it in the two line code I pasted?
@TravisJ I am going to get a math book, through legal or illegal means. And try to wrap my head around it.
 
lol
 
I like logic. I find math not so good..
 
@LewsTherin m1 * x1 - y1
 
Ell
@lewstherin legal, reading a PDF is tiresome and hard on the eyes :)
 
11:13 PM
@Ell - That is why I use a projector - very easy on the eyes :D
 
Your equations are:
y1 = m1x + c1 & y2 = m2x + c2

equate Y's as at interception point, both lines will have the same Y value

m1x + c1 = m2x + c2

m1x - m2x = c2 - c1

x(m1 - m2) = c2 - c1

x = (c2 - c1) / (m1 - m2)
 
I can look at a projected screen for 8 hours and my eyes wont get strained or require me to squint. I can look at a regular monitor for like 2 hours and have to start squinting from eye strain.
 
Ell
oh that's quite a good idea
I can't imagine the text clarity being good though?
 
@Ell Yeah I hate PDF but they are free. Free or cheap stuff usually outweighs common sense.
 
@HansRudel -

y = m1( x - x1 ) + y1
y = m2( x - x2 ) + y2
@Ell - text clarity is amazing, and the display size is about 6 feet across
horizontally
i mean diagonally
 
11:17 PM
@TravisJ I never thought of that. Thanks for the tip.
 
It is cheaper than the eye doctor lol
 
@TravisJ Lol
 
That's freaking expensive
 
I got my first one because I had to go to the eye doctor for an eye strain 3 times in two months and it was $150 per visit
That was 3 years ago, no doctor visits, and the projector is on its original bulb
 
11:21 PM
thats impressive
 
So you don't use a monitor as frequently?
 
I never use a monitor
 
@TravisJ I got a widescreen LCD. I still get migraines even with a 5ms response time.
Nothing works, even setting the brightness to low.
 
after midnight here so im outahere. @TravisJ @lews thanks for helping me understand that equation
good night guys
 
I have two at home, one at work, and a spare that I had to get repaired (1 year manufacturer warrantee)
 
11:22 PM
@HansRudel Same here xD. Goodnight :)
 
nite @HansRudel
@Lews - Ill bet you get migraines because you are staring into a LCD light the whole time. With a projector, another difference is that you are always looking at reflected light, not direct light.
 
Is the quality good for movies, gaming and the likes.. The reason I hate projector is because of the trapezoid shape on the wall.. how do you avoid that?
 
Shoot it straight out and it will form a nice square (rectangle) box. If the box is too large on the left, then rotate the projector right. If the box is too large on the top, then aim it down.
 
I will try and order one. My eyes are 50% screwed already.
 
Quality is really good for movies because I get to run the movie on my 2x 4MB video cards
 
11:26 PM
Before I go can you explain your mathematical term "Correct, the lower function swaps and becomes the upper function at the intersection point"
@TravisJ Are this video cards for the projector?
 
Any vid card works, it connects with the plain monitor hook
This one at work is on a $300 emachines desktop and looks great lol
I was looking online, and I guess the reason the assumption breaks if there is an intersection is because you are calculating the difference of areas between a top and lower boundary. At the point of intersection the top boundary becomes what was the lower boundary - in this case the lower function. That swap is what throws off the comparison.
 
I didn't know projectors were so dear..
@TravisJ Can you send me the link where you saw that? Is weird that they "swap"...
 
Also, it can often be difficult to determine which of the functions is the upper function and which is the lower function without a graph. This is especially true in cases like the last example where the answer to that question actually depended upon the range of x’s that we were using.
The whole page talks about finding the upper and lower function associated with regions. There are places where the upper and lower function switch, and the upper becomes the lower one at a given x value. At that point, they point out that a new integral must be used.
 
@TravisJ I looked at the page and my mind went blank lol
 
lol
 
11:35 PM
So many g(x) stuff.. haha
 
yeah, there are a few complex examples, guy seems to know his stuff
 
@TravisJ Wow, what a load of complex looking rubbish lol. Do mathematicians really need all that symbology stuff in their tutorial
 
JC, I don't know what to feel looking at that.
 
@lews - However, no one trumps computer science in their use of symbols :) we use a ton! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumping_lemma_for_regular_languages
 
11:41 PM
@TravisJ That is crazy computer science I never want to be part of :)
 
Yeah, I had to take that class being taught by someone who didn't care about his students with a TA that barely spoke english. Barely passed, and like 80% of the class failed
 
Seriously, if it is a tutorial explain in English. Not some e(X)-1 blah biwsf hdshfdfduk
 
72% failed or left. We started with 46 and 13 passed
 
@TravisJ All my math lecturers were like that. I learnt what I needed to pass on youtube.
@TravisJ Lots more than my class. We had easy math lol
 
Definitely hard to find good teachers in math and science. Many of them are good mathematicians and scientists, but not very good at conveying their knowledge.
 
11:45 PM
Surprisingly, I had a good programming teacher, grateful for that. Or I would have dropped out. I usually take a while to learn stuff.
The rest were just knowitalls, can't explain very well. The worst of them are math teachers.
 
I have liked my programming teachers.
 
I hope to take his course next semester. He was the best. My algorithms teacher was a joke.
He knows the stuff, but can't explain to save his life. And the worst thing is me getting high marks and knowing I don't know half of his course lol
@TravisJ 10 to 1 yeah.. Good morning and thanks!
Jesus, morning.. talk later :)
 
:)
 

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