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12:07 AM
Good Thing Tony wasn't here - I had to actually spend 20 min researching on my own , now I'll probably remember this :)
2
 
 
1 hour later…
1:34 AM
If I am getting data from a website.... And I use `WebClient.DownloadData` then write those bytes to a file, then read the data from the file and copy it to a `List`... is this how I should go around do that? Example:

WebClient client = new WebClient();
byte[] file = client.DownloadData("http://example//users-information.txt");

File.WriteAllBytes(@"../user-information/user-information.txt", file);
 
2:10 AM
@OutlawLemur do you need to save it to file? or you just need it in program memory?
 
2:40 AM
@Maslow in program memory
 
 
5 hours later…
8:03 AM
morning
 
@Baboon good morning bro, how was ur wknd?
 
a
nice one, I started game development
at last
 
cool
2d or 3d?
 
bit of both i guess
 
that sounds very impressive!
 
8:06 AM
i'm making a chess game to get experience
so the board is 2D, but I'll make a 45° angle view
seeing chess pieces in 3D, probably going to try to do some animations
I'm trying to test as much stuff as possible
 
id not have a clue where to start, so im impressed
or how to get the computer to evaluate potential moves for that matter.
 
i don't think you evaluate the potential moves
you let the engine take care of cameras, terrain texture etc
with good design you abstract out how what the player sees is generated
and you focus on collision/gameplay
 
ok but are u going to let the human play against a computer opponent?
 
nah, that's not interesting in chess
 
ahh ok
 
8:10 AM
chess is about human failure
 
lol
 
but i'm fairly proficient in client/server architecture
so that's not an issue
 
ull be progrmming in WPF right?
 
no
I started with Ogre in C++ but I think i'll go with XNA+SunBurn with a port to Mono/MonoGame once the games are done
it gives me fast development on XNA then broad audience on Mono
and I hear a lot of people saying the porting is trivial
SunBurn is an engine that builds on XNA
it's very popular these days apparently, I'll just buy the pro license if I find it good
but I'm really waiting on some experienced game devs to answer my question: stackoverflow.com/questions/11560318/…
and hopefully some moderator will move it to gamedev.se
 
nvr used it myself/heard of it but thats not surprising tbh. Sounds pretty cool though
 
that actually looks pretty impressive
dojo example... hmm looks rather matrix orientated
 
you really say "orientated" isn't it "oriented" ?
 
8:31 AM
@Baboon it is a word but in this case its not really appropriate
inspired would be more appropriate
sorry, still waking up i guess
 
8:46 AM
anyone here can flag my question as should be moved to gamedev.stackexchange please? stackoverflow.com/questions/11560318/…
 
@Baboon just click flag to moderator right?
 
yeah
 
done ;)
 
=)
 
alright gonna see about making those changes u suggested on Friday. catch u later bro
 
8:52 AM
laterz
 
don't you get c# style scripting with unity?
@Baboon Btw did you watch that indie game movie
 
9:12 AM
@DavidDV which indie game movie?
I don't know much about unity
 
what's it make with?
 
other title is programmers almost comitting suicide
:p
btw great talk about getting stuff done
from the creator of braid
 
looks like good stuff
 
9:33 AM
especially that doom-anecdote
 
 
2 hours later…
11:59 AM
:)
 
whats up
 
Lots of work, not enough documentation to do stuff...
And you ?
 
lol
i have no idea
 
@DavidDV feel like trolling? stackoverflow.com/questions/11612259/… :D
 
12:12 PM
@Baboon :)
 
oh well someone else using EF
and mysql
mysql is teh suck
 
these people need a superhero man
 
EF and Mysql its like a perfect wedding
crap and shit
MySql is like WCF and EF, don't use the default settings to program something real
 
The problem is when you mix crap and shit, it is hard to disassemble after mixing both haha.
Why are you MySql ?
 
EF is crap?
 
12:14 PM
vimeo.com/43536445 -> why against mysql
@Steve yes steve it is :')
 
i've never used it but i'm in the process of learning it. What is the reasoning behind it being crap?
 
Though if you "believe" that EF is great then so be it
 
Oh no, i'm not going to get butt hurt, i really want to know
 
EF = leaky abstraction
which means that in order to be proficient in using EF, you really need to know how internally EF works
which means a lot of learning
bug-hunting
stack-overflowing
 
oh
so theres just too many bugs with it?
 
12:17 PM
no not that
But there are a lot of rules and convetions that you need to follow
If you go and do a more complex data model, thing will get ugly
 
oh so its just hard to learn to use correctly and efficiently
 
then also when you need batch updates/inserts, it can't do that too well
 
Why would someone release something with a lot of bugs.. Microsoft, oh you..
 
and also the whole N + 1 select problem
this guy is telling somewhat the same thing
anyway EF will take a very long time to be good at
and then the things you can do will always be inferior to just solving it the simple way
anyway I use this
Less drama
More productivity
 
Isn't LINQ like... really bad for performance ?
 
12:22 PM
does anybody else have any insight on this topic? consensus? disagreement?
 
@Andredseixas which Linq are you talking about?
 
i'm assuming linq to sql
 
LINQ used in VS ._.
 
Linq to Objects?
not really, but you have to know what deferred execution means
 
Yes, I guess..
 
12:24 PM
no, it's not bad for performance
then again performance for what?
 
Imagine 500 people using the same system on the same server
Performance counts.
 
@Andredseixas if you worry about performance, first rule
Don't use EF :p
 
I really don't understand LINQ yet, I just heard about bad performance..
 
then you heard wrong
you should ignore ppl like that
 
:E I can't ignore, the person that told me that pays my salary
 
12:27 PM
Well easy
 
Since he is 40 years older than me, I always take his opinion and put it here so people can correct me..
 
do a benchmark
problem solved
 
Define: benchmark haha
 
what is there to define
 
:( I don't know what that word means, let me google.
 
12:28 PM
@Steve why do you need consensus :p
just listen to me :)
:p
 
Ok, now I know what benchmarking is.
 
Yeah, I do that sometimes, at least with Dictionary I did that.
 
linq wins in some situations, other situations it loses
 
"I always wondered why LINQ was added when the world was comfortable with ADO programmin"
great article
seriously
:p
 
12:30 PM
@DavidDV lol you're just some strange guy online, for all I know EF pissed you off one day and you've had a vendetta against it since. I've never heard anybody dis EF so bad, so I was wondering if this is a serious concern or one guy on a vendetta. Nothing personal, just doing my homework
 
You can find articles online about how george bush knew about 9/11 before hand, lol
 
@Andredseixas you should do you own benchmarks
then again if you never did a big application, you might not understand
 
When I have time I usually test some stuff.
 
about LINQ being slow: it means the person who told you that has no idea what he's talking about
 
12:32 PM
The theoretical part isn't my strength.
 
you can think of LINQ like a set of interfaces
 
i've never worked with EF before even on a small project, thats why i'm asking :)
 
implemented over and over again
 
@Steve another article -> codinghorror.com/blog/2006/06/…
 
speed is a matter of implementation, therefore, LINQ being implemented mutiple times ,you can't generalize over its speed
 
12:34 PM
I think you are right @Baboon , sometimes my boss just talks gibberish to sound smart.
 
besides, you should be really careful about what older programmers tell you towards newer technology: they tend to not want to learn new stuff, they're tired of it. they are not objective people for most of those I met
 
@Baboon thats not true
as an older programmer I take offense to that :p
 
you can be offended all you want ;)
 
@DavidDV Are you 50 years old ?
 
lmao
 
12:35 PM
I know in 5 minutes if a new technology is crap or not
based on previous experience
no 35 :p
 
So you're not old.
 
for example WPF
 
now that said, EF is slow. That's a fact. It's been benchmarked over and over against many other ORMs
 
has long been CRAP
 
and it's always WAY slower than all other ORMs
 
12:36 PM
anyone here good with VHDL?
 
google around you'll find all the data you want to back this up
 
EF is slow because of no Batching and N + 1 select
use this instead -> bltoolkit.net/Doc.Linq.ashx
offcourse it is not so popular
 
then again, don't fall into the hands of over-optimization and premature optimization. for small systems EF can work fast enough, it just won't scale well
 
@Baboon but then you are in Vietnam
 
make the right balance between existing skills in your team and required performance
 
stop the links I can't keep uuuuuup !
 
just don't use EF
don't
it is a waste of time
And don't be fooled with these articles about how easy it is
it's not
 
i'm not going to be fooled by articles about how easy it is. however, I'm not going to be fooled by articles that claim its a waste of time also. I'm sure the truth is some where in the middle and it does have its place. The thing about blogs is any dirt bag with a keyboard can write anything they want, regardless if its accurate or objective
maybe i'm just stubborn, who knows
 
the truth is this is the best :p -> bltoolkit.net/Doc.Linq.ashx
just look at it for 10 minutes
 
I was looking at some "benchmarks" about NHibernate and EF. They both are bad as I checked...
 
1:00 PM
man i hate mondays
 
yeah but the thing with EF and nHibernate is that you are likelier to get N + 1 Selects
certainly when you don't know exactly what you are doing
N + 1 Selects is more important when thinking about performance
 
Define N + 1
:(
 
N + 1 selects = selecting an entity with a 1:N relationship causes N additional selects ( because of lazy loading )
 
MVC music store for example
 
1:05 PM
311
Q: What is the n+1 selects problem?

Lars A. BrekkenThe problem is often mentioned in O/R-mapping discussions, and I understand that it has something do to with having to make a lot of database queries for something that seems simple in the object world. Does anybody have a more detailed (but simple!) explanation of the problem?

 
N + 1 Select is hard to solve because of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_Distributed_Computing
 
good moaning all :D
 
@DavidDV Which is why it's important to have a good model that uses relationships sparingly
 
gmorning sunshine
 
Hm, from the Steves link I could understand a bit. But what is the best way to handle that kind of situation ? Asynchronous calls ?
 
1:08 PM
@chris euhm No
you don't design your database because of a crappy ORM
I agree with denormalization
but having N + 1 selects is not Ok because you denormalized exactly for that problem
 
@DavidDV Ok, I won't get into a "pro and cons of ORM" discussion.
 
@Andredseixas Davids solution is to not use EF or NHibernate, i've never used either so i have no idea
 
@Steve my solution is to use this -> bltoolkit.net/Doc.Linq.ashx
 
lol i get it, you like that link a lot
 
its an ORM
I do
 
1:12 PM
you're a funny guy
 
Lets say I have a DataSet, and I have to do a "N + 1" search, what if I do some parallel stuff to do block search ?
 
@Andredseixas the goal is not to have a N +1 Select but a 1 select
if you have N + 1 you are doing something wrong
 
man i should really get some work done, but i'm so lazy on mondays
 
Is not wrong but it is not good.
 
and tuesdays, and wednesdays, and thursdays, and fridays
 
1:13 PM
@Andredseixas not good = wrong
 
Not good = not the best way. But still a way. Damn, I'm thinking like microsoft again..
 
for example you show 100 records, and you have N + 1, thats 101 trips to the database :)
 
Ugh. Feels bad man.
 
You know N + 1 shouldn't have to be a problem, we just need to invent a way to send data to the DB faster then light
 
than*
 
1:16 PM
@Steve then you should work the weekends then :D
 
@DeveloperDavid lol, i forgot to mention, i'm lazy on saturday and sunday too
 
@Steve there's 48 hours during Saturday and Sunday.... !
 
i'm just a big ol' lazy SOB
 
So, having it in memory and doing some memory management is the best way to do it ?
I have no idea :(
 
@Steve oooooooohhhhh.... me too.... I just pretend to work!
 
1:17 PM
lol
 
@Steve @DeveloperDavid That is why StackOverflow made a chat. So lazy people pretend to do work. Because you know, "we talk about work". haha
4
 
lol
so true
 
@Andredseixas the only way to do it is to not have any N + 1 Selects
 
@Andredseixas I'm going to star that!
 
i'm going to get fired
 
1:19 PM
@Steve BANG!
 
@DavidDV But that is impossible.
 
idc honestly, i'll just turn into a bum and do heroin under a bridge to dull the pain
 
My application doesn't have any N+1 Select
 
we have just entered the FREY!
 
Just using that Data.Linq ?
 
1:21 PM
@KendallFrey
 
using that url that I keep posting
 
lol, he doesn't want to post it again because i gave him shit last time :( i was only joking :)
 
:(
:p
 
smile bud
 
@Steve you're so bitchy.... (jk)
 
1:22 PM
@DeveloperDavid i'm over here laughing, i think my boss might know that i'm not programming. people don't laugh when they program. they curse.
 
@Steve it depends on who's code they are looking at!
 
When I do maintenance on someone else code I always have a laugh followed by a curse.
 
true
 
@Steve I laugh when I look at my own code because it's so shit, and I curse at others because I wished I thought of doing it that way!
 
"Hahaha, what the f am I reading"
 
1:24 PM
lmao
 
I'm looking at someone else DB right now
 
IMHO If it was hard to program, it should be hard to understand....
 
it's a generic DB
It has tables like Date_value, Text_Value
:)
you can store any datastructure in it
 
let's forget about commenting, using good variable names and encapsulation....
 
haha /facepalm
 
1:25 PM
Camel that shit.
 
Is this all I missed?
 
@DeveloperDavid nobody here comments, it makes me so mad. they write a crappy 500 line long method, and to top it off.... 3 words for a description of what it does
 
@KendallFrey you know we are always so serious about coding...
 
Not much talk, just performance problems, EF and NHibernate being bad and some promotional talk about Linq.
Oh yeah, and laziness, laziness everywhere
 
3 words! wow, that's 3 more words than my developers uses! you should count yourself one of the lucky ones!
 
1:27 PM
:(
 
I love ///<summary> ///</summary>
 
hahaha
 
@Steve nah, seriously, we're pretty good here, I enforce good encapsulation as much as possible, we have a joke here about encapsulating our whole app to 1 single character soon as we've done so much already!
but damn, everyone here comments in French! and variable names are in French!!!! What happened to anglophones!!!!!
 
wow, do you work in canada or france?
 
I work in Quebec City.... so we're French speaking here...
 
1:31 PM
@DeveloperDavid lol
 
For example, Resource is the en-US spelling... French it's Ressource....
 
lmao
 
double s!!!! freaking hell!!! thank god for Intellisense!!!!
 
@DeveloperDavid Lazy ass programmer? Even with intellisense what does "s" mean?
 
then you get all those stupid accents, like acute 'e' (I mean an e is an e, how can it be a "Cute" e????)!!!!
@LewsTherin en-US Resource, fr-CA Ressource....
 
1:33 PM
@DeveloperDavid Ah :D
 
@LewsTherin yeah, damn Frenchies... the only ones I like are French Fries :D
French Fries in my poutine!
 
what. the. f. is poutine
 
@DeveloperDavid What @Steve said.. French Fries and Burger I understand
 
It looks really good..
 
1:36 PM
it's okay, more fattening than Mc D's and Burger King combined!
allo @Ammar-Thebadprogrammer :P
 
lol
i want
@Ammar-Thebadprogrammer :)
 
french fries are from belgium -> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_fries
just saying...
 
@Steve hey, we don't want to spoil your body builder sculpted body now do we?!
 
it is my Birthday!
 
@Ammar-Thebadprogrammer we're going to party like it's your Birthday!
 
1:37 PM
more like .. work like it is my birthday
 
@DeveloperDavid pffft, not anymore, i wish i was fit
 
@Ammar-Thebadprogrammer so will you stop being a bad programmer now and start being a good one? as it is your birthday and all?
@Steve anymore?
 
a new mcdonalds opened in my area. They had a deal where bigmacs were $1 . I was going to my bday party last Sat and bought 10
 
@Ammar-Thebadprogrammer did you eat all 10 yourself? or did you share?
 
nah. I only ate 3
 
1:39 PM
@DeveloperDavid when i was in the marines i was fit, lol. now i've got a keg
 
@Steve Me too... I'm not fat.. but I am incredibly unfit.
 
@Ammar-Thebadprogrammer omg i would have eaten all 10
 
I not fat... Dictionaries changed definition for fat. Fat : Go to Andredseixas
 
@Steve I was hungover on big mac sauce the next day
 
@LewsTherin lol oh i'm fat. I'll get back into shape when i have money to buy this home gym I was looking at. I still have the motivation to work out, just not in public
 
1:40 PM
@Steve ah, the marines, that's baby stuff, the navy is for real men.... just kidding
 
I never seen any progress till I started working out in public gyms
 
I'm in SHAPE, ROUND is a SHAPE!!!!
 
I can't get fit. Both my works neighbors are Burger King and Subway..
 
@DeveloperDavid lmao
 
@Steve I've tried my hardest to be "fat" - to gain weight. It never works. BK and McDonalds, KFC.. none of them increased my weight :(
 
1:41 PM
*omg I am dying I can't do this anymore*
>girl walks by
*does 5 more reps*
EVERY TIME
 
@Andredseixas then sue for lots of money :P
 
@LewsTherin start an account on World of Warcraft.
 
I am one of those people who don't gain weight easily :(
 
Sue them for my fatness?
 
@Steve I am on the computer everyday, milliseconds.. why would that make a difference? :O
 
1:42 PM
@Andredseixas yup....
 
Suing Burger King for being fat is like blaming toilet paper companies for the fact that I shit everyday.
3
 
@LewsTherin lol idk, it worked for me
 
@Andredseixas Lol
 
@LewsTherin same. I can't gain unless I workout and eat +3000 cal a day of expensive good food
 
morning gentlemen
 
1:43 PM
@Andredseixas so? Americans do it and they win all the time!
@HansZ pfffffft, I'm no gentleman, but thank you anyway! good morning sir
 
@Ammar-Thebadprogrammer Uh, working out increases your weight? :O Well I'm a lazy bastard I don't think I can work out..
 
Even though I live in America, and by America I mean the continent, people don't sue everyone for everything. Brazil, hell yeah.
 
morning gentlemen and rat bastards
 
@Andredseixas estas loco!???!!!??
 
@HansZ lol good morning!
 
1:44 PM
@HansZ that's better....
 
Brazil main language is portuguese not spanish..
We are latin but we were not colonized by Spain.
 
@LewsTherin depends on your goals and workout and diet. you can work out to gain muscles weights, or work out to lose weight
brb
 
Você está louco?
 
Não, estou com sono. Louco só depois que saio do trabalho :(
I guess @KendallFrey is banging his head against the wall by seeing so much off-topic talk...
 
@Andredseixas it's a Monday, you can be sleepy! drink to get crazy after work?!?
 
1:47 PM
I get happy crazy because I can rest.
 
@Andredseixas nah, @KendallFrey is in the Frey
 
By "in the Frey" you mean another dimension ? Haha
 
pun so intended....
 
It is so hard to understand some puns when English is not your main language, I always feel awkward.
 
I don't get why people say, "No pun intended"??? I mean seriously, if it wasn't intended, then choose different words! I think people say "No pun intended" because they want to look intelligent, I mean, if you wanted attention, just say it, no that you're gonna get it... dumb asses
 
1:48 PM
How can people look intelligent when they make puns...
2
 
To make it even better: bit.ly/MCWG6K
Would you believe it if I told you it was his company? lol
 
@LewsTherin what is his company?
 
@DavidDV still alive?
 
@DeveloperDavid The link I posted above, it isn't his.. but it wouldn't be too far fetched if someone told me it was.
 
no
:/
 
1:51 PM
@DavidDV dang your keyboard is possessed (sp)
 
@DavidDV your robot has taken over?
 
@Steve Damn everytime someone says "Still alive" I start singing "This was a triumph.."
 
@Andredseixas everytime someone asks if I am still alive, I just remember how unfortunate I am to still be here working on a freaking Monday!!!! shouldn't we all be retired by now???!!!!??!
 
Well, I'm 19 so I can't retire now. Maybe next year if I invent something not useful like facebook..
 
@Andredseixas I'm 119 years old, or well, at least that's what my body feels like on a monday morning!!!
 
1:55 PM
Ah, looking for health I'm 60+ easily, but whatever, all I want is brain health, the rest is just extra weight.
 
@Andredseixas and that's my excuse everytime I arrive to work late... leave me alone! I'm older than you!!
 
@Andredseixas :)
 
Haha use the common sentence. "Respect the elders !! "
 
yeah, those youngens, they think they know everything!
I mean, it took years and years and years to get my age....
 
^_^
 
1:59 PM
Stop blasting young guys. Someday I'll be your tech support.
 
@DeveloperDavid I don't want to be disrespectful but, how old are you ?
 

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