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03:00 - 20:0020:00 - 23:00

8:00 PM
@CodyGray I see. nice to know that. I guess @AndrasDeak is a mod also.
 
@AaronHall you got me there, i got nothing for you :P
 
in the UK - you can also get private medical insurance for certain things, but at the end of the day, if you're ill, not able to work, then the state pays for it
 
I assume this applies to only citizens though
 
@superv names in blue are moderators and names in italics are room owners
 
@superv He is not. Moderators names appear in blue in chat, and elsewhere on the site, their names are followed by a diamond. However, Andras is a room owner in this particular chat room, which does give him some moderation powers in this individual room.
 
8:02 PM
strangely not
 
oh, interesting
i guess last question, any openings over there? :P
 
@ParitoshSingh the NHS we have in the UK will treat anyone regardless - unlike some countries that want a proof of a payment method or travel insurance before they start
 
@AaronHall @CodyGray I never new that. I guess its good to ask questions.
 
I'm quite privileged that two mods are explaining things on my behalf. You guys should hang around more often!
 
8:04 PM
@Andras oi! :p
 
@AndrasDeak Maybe we can get Makyen in here, too?
 
@superv you can find that information in the FAQ (link bottom right, and here: chat.stackoverflow.com/faq)
 
@AaronHall Don't be ridiculous. Nobody reads the FAQ.
 
@CodyGray do their explanations make them an honorary mod? :)
 
@CodyGray it's a nice thought, though...
 
8:06 PM
Hate to ask our US friends, but guys, what would be your medical costs?
 
I hope they won't get hospitalized just from an hour of chatting here...
 
> The average [per month] cost of individual health insurance premiums is $440 for an individual and &1,168 for a family, in 2018 according to eHealth
 
(I just can't imagine a society where I'm looking around finding the "best deal" I could regarding something as simple as health)
 
if you need to fix a kidney, you usually sell your other kidney to pay for it. something like that, i hear. :P
 
@JonClements ∞
 
8:08 PM
@AndrasDeak I know I can get boring at times, but I certainly wouldn't like to get people comatose :)
 
It's worse than looking around finding the best deal. It's knowingly going into debt for the rest of your life just to get some much-needed procedure or treatment.
 
I don't really know the prices, but i understand that they are high enough that people actually take flight tickets, and come to here to get treatments done, and fly back out. And it's a lot cheaper.
America has gotten pretty good at trapping people in debt cycles for necessities. (with no offense intended.)
 
to cite my undergraduate class on insurance: the purpose of insurance is to cover catastrophic events. from a public policy perspective, insurance that covers visits and checkups amounts to forced savings.
 
@CodyGray the UK health service has never been great and is collapsing a bit even given funding... but boy, oh boy, it works on the principle of everyone can give in a little bit - and even if you don't - you're not going to be declined what you need
 
Does anyone know of a command line tool (or a switch for grep) that does the following?
`grep` will (a) suppress lines that do not match and (b) highlight the matching parts of lines that do match. Is there a tool that will do (b) and not do (a)?
 
8:12 PM
@shad0w_wa1k3r how are you? where you chanced to have a look at the last dpaste i sent?
 
@JonClements In US politics, we call that way of thinking "socialism", and we turn up our noses at it.
 
hello everyone! I wrote a script which extracts live price of gold from a website and send it to Whatsapp group every second anyone can help me I just want to send message only if the rate changes. I used Selenium, pandas, and schedule module.
 
@CodyGray And that's why US Health Care is the global standard for quality.
 
please help me with this
 
@AaronHall Because it's only available to the super-rich?
 
8:13 PM
@CodyGray oh... the entire world's politics are a bit weird at the moment aren't they... but... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service
 
@CodyGray on the contrary, hospitals are mandated to provide care to walkins regardless of ability to pay.
 
@RazaChishti each time you run, write the current price to a file. Before sending, check the file to see what the price was last time the script ran. Then send only if there's a change
 
@superv Our last conversation / my reply was basically you trying to debug with django debug tools enabled.
 
And this is why we won't talk politics on my stream...
 
@RazaChishti that sounds like a simple if else condition and you needing to keep track of the old price somewhere. have you tried writing up the logic for it yet?
 
8:15 PM
@Aran-Fey totally understand what you're saying. I bit the bullet and launched mine, warts-and-all. Just be careful that you don't keep pushing it back because I think it's already a great product. I've patched my site up today but the reality is that I just wanna rip the whole front-end apart :P if I keep taking that stance, I'll never have anything, though
 
heh
 
@par
 
@AaronHall Emergency rooms/departments are thus mandated. And I wouldn't exactly call US emergency room care "the global standard for quality". Not that it's bad, of course, but I'm sure others come close. Where the US excels is in the availability of advanced procedures and quality of physicians. Those aren't usually available for free.
 
@AaronHall don't happen to play MTG arena do you? :)
 
@ParitoshSingh yes i wrote it but seriously I am not satisfied with my code xD
 
8:16 PM
@shad0w_wa1k3r You were right. I will do that and feed you back. Thanks
 
well, does it work?
 
@CodyGray if you're diabetic - does it cost you there?
 
lastData = scrape_data()

schedule.every(1).seconds.do(scrape_data)
while 1:
    newData = scrape_data()
    lastData = newData
    newData = scrape_data()
    if(lastData!=newData):
        send_message(newData)
        schedule.run_pending()
        time.sleep(1)
    else:
        schedule.run_pending()
        time.sleep(1)
 
@CodyGray in any case, I'm thinking of showing my wife the 12k annual costs of health insurance and offering to pay it straight into an account with her name on it...
 
that's my code
 
8:20 PM
@CodyGray I've worked in a number of emergency rooms in Australia, and used some in the US - I concur. Not that the US ones are bad, but they could be much better. Of course, they shouldn't be dealing with garden variety 'flu cases either. /rant
 
Or maybe I can get an employer on my terms that provides coverage... I have a friend promising me to introduce me to employers that will give me everything I want in the world, but I remain skeptical...
 
[ i for i in numbers if i%5 !=0 ] can be written as [ i for i in numbers if i%5] but which one of the two should be used?
 
@AaronHall seriously... I find it so weird to think a $12k insurance cost is something that's needed... let alone to "have to look around"
 
It's the world I choose to live in.
 
guys help me with the code
 
8:25 PM
A private health care plan may or may not cover supplies for diabetics. But one that will cover it fully will probably be quite expensive. @Jon
 
Funny how the original patent for insulin was sold for $1, hoping it would keep the cost down.
 
@CodyGray And that's why you have diabetic children dying completely preventable deaths, or losing eyes/digits/limbs. /proabably_not_end_of_rant.
 
@Ch3steR I prefer the one with != 0, it's more explicit
 
@CodyGray in Finland we call it "social democracy" bc of a certain neighbour stained the image of the ism.
 
A friend who played rugby thought it was great that he could get all smashed up having fun and not have to pay for it. In economics and insurance classes, we call that "moral hazard." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard
 
8:37 PM
@AnttiHaapala Which part of Finland are you? I live in Finland too :)
 
check his profile
 
@AndrasDeak I just did but nothing is stated. It is just nice to see someone from the same country :)
 
@AnttiHaapala We’re still using “democratic socialism”. Your phrasing is smarter.
@AaronHall We call that a friend with mental issues...
@superv You need to look at the profile on the main site, not the chat profile. The chat profile doesn’t have location information.
 
He was trying to sell me on the UK health system and I wasn't buying...
 
@AaronHall usually though people do not really want to be hurt just for the sake of getting gratis treatment
 
8:45 PM
@AnttiHaapala Kiitos ja hauska tavata :)
 
Let's drop the Health Insurance question, since it's a highly local issue. More ideas for my stream: tutorials, homework (I'm taking some classes again), learning new languages (like haskell and rust)
 
@CodyGray interestingly, if you have diabetes in the UK, all the medical costs are covered for... you never need to worry about paying for insulin or injection pens or anything
 
do I use a pseudonym?
 
@AaronHall sudo nym
 
@AaronHall What language do you intend to teach?
 
8:53 PM
Python to teach and cut up tutorials for youtube maybe.
 
@AndrasDeak my sudo nym is root.
 
others just to stream and learn.
 
I could be your first viewer and could give feedback :)
 
I think I'll just start slow, not make any announcements, and see who joins...
won't be able to start for a week regardless.
 
@AaronHall oh you know what... private medical insurance won't pay for that as you did it to yourself - sure... but ultimately, then what do you do? Just seems a massive divide from European (UK especially) countries and the US how they consider personal health...
... if you don't have a penny to your name here, you get the same health care as someone that's a billionaire
(well.. the billionaire probably can jump a few queues or something but... for everyone else - it doesn't matter - it's there - you don't have to plan for health insurance)
 
9:00 PM
But then you have to pay taxes, you see, and that’s just un-American.
You redcoats tried to get us to pay taxes once already.
 
lmao :)
 
I do appreciate a good tax cut.
 
nah, we pay taxes and we pay what's called national insurance
 
Ideally we would cut taxes every year.
 
the later (although it doesn't quite work out in a way) covers pensions, social funding and medical
 
9:02 PM
Every year, pay a little less.
 
Yeah, I continue to be puzzled at the average American voter not yet having figured out economies of scale. It’s cheaper if we all pay a little bit towards health care than if we all have to buy it ourselves.
 
@CodyGray so much spilt tea :/
 
Languages I'm interested in: Haskell, Rust, Scala, Kotlin, Typescript, and Elm. And C/C++. I suppose.
 
@CodyGray I remain puzzled why the NHS is effectively a £115 billion entity and still can't get some things right
 
@JonClements the field of economics calls it "agency costs": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agency_cost
 
9:03 PM
@AaronHall “C/C++” Triggered!
I’ve akways been interested in Python/Ruby
 
Very cute.
 
@CodyGray the NHS isn't perfect... but... seriously... a bit out of your pay cheque that goes towards it each month... and not having to worry about how "seriously" sick you are... rather than worrying about if your policy covers something or not
 
@JonClements there are some fantastically-well-paid contracting positions that get posted. I suspect that they are too much of a political target to be able to organise and so money can just be thrown around in the melee
 
@roganjosh I imagine there's still "jobs for the boys" stuff going on there
shrugs
all I'm saying is that I find it amazing how some health care systems require money or someone having to sitdown and decide what's the best "health insurance policy"
 
Can't argue with that. They regularly have £400/day + but strange requirements that you need to be in the NHS at a certain level already
 
9:10 PM
I don't understand how my paying $24k over 9 years in healthcare costs for the cheapest insurance I can find, albeit not having received any healthcare (if I had gotten sick enough to see a dr, that would be more), is any less of a 'tax' than paying 2% of my income in tax towards Australia's Medicare...I'd have to be making at least $130k a year to not come out ahead in Australia, compared to the US.
Comparing what it has cost us, and cost my brother to have maternal/delivery/pediatric care, I'd have to be making about $2 million dollars a year before I'm better off in the US than Australia, although that figure is much more speculative. But just doing US insurance + costs vs Aust taxes + costs, that's where I end up.
 
@toonarmycaptain Ah, and now you approach enlightenment. Guess who decides on tax policies?
 
@CodyGray Bob Dylan? :p
 
Not since the 60s...
 
On another note... does anaconda have Python 3.8 out? - nope still 3.7...
I've been using Nix to replace conda, and it seems to be quite fabulous.
 
ugh... (tries to find another more recent random person to blame for ironic example) @CodyGray
 
9:15 PM
@CodyGray Approach enlightenment - I'd just like to see the kids I service actually able to see Drs, in a timely fashion, and afford the insulin/asthma meds they need (according to Drs orders). It's talking to parents requesting I give their kids less insulin than they should have, because they can't afford as much as they need.
 
@toonarmycaptain see... coming from being in the UK... I just don't get it
insulin and asthma stuff or anything for long term conditions here are just done
the state just pays for 'em
 
anyone else using Nix?
 
if you've got some weird condition and need some other drugs for it, it's capped at (think it's) £9 or something
 
@JonClements I've used healthcare in UK/US/Australia. I've worked/delivered healthcare in the US and Australia. I believe I have something of a unique perspective.
 
@toonarmycaptain I'm all ears
 
9:20 PM
@JonClements Until recently I couldn't even have afforded the ADD meds here that I got in Australia for $4 a month. I had to stop taking them. It's as simple as that. Even with insurance, we couldn't afford it.
 
umm.... where are you now?
 
@JonClements Eh, I could rant all day. Suffice to say that I'm sure there's some variance, obviously, but on the whole I rate local Drs and hospitals in Australia more than most of those I've experienced in the US. I know from experience that a 10mL syringe where I worked for a while in the US was billed to the customer at $3 when it cost $0.02, and in Australia the cost was $0.15, passed on at $0.15.
I'm in the US.
 
Can’t remember where I am… No ADD meds.
 
wim
@AaronHall what do you like better in nix than conda? what do you like better in conda than nix?
 
@toonarmycaptain yeah... was talking about the UK where you wouldn't have that
 
9:24 PM
@toonarmycaptain That’s because someone has to pay for the free emergency care for those who don’t have health insurance.
 
wim
@toonarmycaptain I've worked in all three for 2+ years each
with NHS (uk), Medicare + private (aus), and private (us)
I think Medicare + Medicare levy surcharge in Aus is not in practice more expensive than my health coverage in US
 
@CodyGray I paid less in taxes for that there, while earning more, than I pay in either taxes or insurance here. I pay more taxes here than I paid in Australia, and I made more money in Australia. So who's paying for it there, because it wasn't me.
Hey I gtg, rhubarb all
 
wim
NHS was basically "free", but I don't know how much in taxes was going towards that, didn't really look into it.
@JonClements another way to look at that is if you don't have a penny to your name, and you smoke your way to lung disease, everybody else has to pay for your dumb choices
 
It's less than insurance, I'd bet money on that
 
@wim I like how conda has everything working together for Python. I like how Nix has just about every language set up and working together - from what I can tell, mostly (not everything... sigh).
 
wim
9:31 PM
conda is not specific to Python either
 
I know you can get a C compiler and R with it too. But last I knew that was about it.
 
wim
In US your employer will be responsible for your health insurance as part of the employment benefits package they offer. Even if you have a high deductible health plan (basically the "free" option) your maximum expenses should not exceed something like 5k per year
 
Depends on whether or not you get sick
 
wim
The amounts they bill to the insurer are insane
There is definitely something screwy there. But it likely doesn't affect you directly if you work in the tech industry
 
For most people, most of the time, in their younger working years, yeah, they’re fine with employer-provided coverage. That’s why mandating employer-provided coverage was a huge improvement.
 
9:36 PM
The whole American Health - Insurance system seems really messed up - coming from a non American
 
@wim sure, but if everyone pays into "a pot" and while someone who smoked themselves to death blah blah, isn't anyone different than someone that just went ski-ing and really f*ed themselves up (potentially for life)... anyway
 
wim
However, if you're unemployed and you couldn't afford and/or couldn't be bothered to get health insurance, you can really get screwed into a lifetime of debt
@JonClements yes but I think unfortunately the smokers and alcoholics are much more numerous than the freak skiing accidents
 
Is that truly unfortunate?
 
@wim I really think that's the main thing - in the UK however you're ill, if you're ill, the state pays for it
 
wim
Yeah, I get it. I'm just offering the counterpoint to help you understand that some people might view this US system as more "fair" in that you are responsible for your own costs/insurance
 
9:40 PM
but we already pay for it via Nation Insurance in our pay
 
wim
Sure. It doesn't have to be that way.
 
Blaming the victim for being sick just doesn’t work. Sure, there are a small number of cases where the proximate cause of the sickness is obvious and arguably self-inflicted. But even then, it’s a combination of factors, many of which are environmental and genetic that folks don’t have direct control over.
 
the NHS is a bit of a socalistic system
@wim let's just say need a heart op tomorrow?
no fault of my mine
 
wim
I'm not saying it does work. People from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and those who lacked the opportunities to get employer-provided coverage in the first place kind of get screwed over in the US
When they are truly the majority, hopefully they will have the voting power to change the system to something more socialist (and not get duped into thinking that's a bad idea)
Unfortunately it's easy to trick stupid people into thinking socialism = communism, which politicians can and do use to their advantage.
 
yup.. but seriously, what are you paying, and what would happen to you if you didn't pay it?
 
wim
9:45 PM
as I said, I don't pay, my health care is free (employer pays)
 
If you tell people health care is at no cost to them, it will be abused. Hypochondriasis, thrill-seeking, unhealthy habits, will all be rewarded, overtaxing the system, causing shortages, long waits, discriminatory rationing, and since it's so stretched, poor quality.
 
yup, and if you left that job, would you get health care?
 
wim
@JonClements yes
when you are considering jobs in US you have to consider the quality of the health plan, with as much importance as your salary, it's essentially a part of your salary. this is something you don't really have to do in the UK.
 
@wim I find that amazing...
 
@wim I see conda has a scala thats 5 years old...
 
wim
9:52 PM
@JonClements my employer also contributes cash to an HSA (I won't disclose how much but think four figures). So if I don't get sick in a given year, on occasion actually just end up with extra free cash (i.e. the cost of the health care plan was negative for me personally)
so the idea that everybody in the US needs to spend ridiculous amounts on health insurance is false
 
And conda's Haskell is a bit old too...
 
@wim reading that... and thinking... I don't know... just sighs
 
the problem with conda is it's set up to support Continuum's Python business, not developers in general. Nix is also a build system that supports reproducible builds with nominally clean/pure environments.
 
wim
@JonClements to clarify, yes, I would get health insurance (at my next employer, or by paying for it myself while I was unemployed )
 
conda is fine for students learning Python or personal usage (if fairly limited to Python) but if you want to focus on other languages, with their newer features, I don't like it.
 
wim
9:58 PM
@AaronHall hmm, interesting.
 
When I get Nix all figured out I'll write a tutorial on it.
 
wim
If PyCon goes ahead I will be interested to chat to the anaconda guys and see whether they view conda the same way.
 
My level of trust in the Nix maintainers is way higher.
 
wim
@JonClements I felt the same way before I moved here. The NHS is also dysfunctional in some ways, I find the quality of care in US to be greater than in UK. Though it's available to fewer. It was interesting to see the upsides and downsides of each of these models.
 
Sorry - had to go home, I'm on mobile now.
@JonClements ...in the US the public ends up paying costs anyway. Lost economic productivity, ER costs, social costs such as children without parents/grandparents, disability benefits. At least one might lessen those effects by helping with addiction/antismoking services and encouragement, or in general helping acute issues not become chronic or deadly.
 
10:08 PM
@wim yup... the key is "available to everyone"
 
@JonClements even if you're old?
what if you're dying and there's a line?
is it truly available if they decide the procedure you need is optional and there's a 6 month wait?
 
@wim I observed/heard of more quasi-fraud in the UK in the form of unnecessary treatment - taking children's tonsils while they're on the table for another surgery etc. Compared to Australia. In the US the issue is more billing for services not provided or barely/ineffectively provided, which is how I've felt in pediatric appts sometimes here in the US...ticking boxes to charge for them without really listening to questions or concerns.
 
we all have to die @AaronHall - mostly these days you do so after 50+ years of paying into the state as it were
there's no "right" medical system anywhere in the world as far as I'm aware
 
k, I've gotta run, thanks for the help strategizing, everyone...
 
I just happen to live in a nation that believes everyone "puts into a pot" for it and if you need it, for whatever, rather than a system where you have to work out how much you can "pay for"
 
10:16 PM
Sounds very idealistic... gotta go.
 
@AaronHall Valid, but better than not being affordable at all? Some things can wait. Eye surgery is rarely emergent, not are a lot of joint surgeries. That said, Austalia has a public-private system where you might wait 6months for a knee that's not urgent if you go 'public', or go private and get it done sooner.
 
@AaronHall depends if you want commercialism over what should really be a human right
 
The Soviet Union said "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." and the gap between theory and practice is a lie.
 
Hey Guys,

I have a function written in Python2 that works with long numbers.
I want to convert that function in Python3. I removed the long function and the L at the end of the number.
When I run the function in python3 i got: int too large to convert to float. At python2 I get 1.
It's that normal?
 
@wim That's very generous of your employer. Wal-Mart offered $150 to an HSA. Four figures p
 
10:19 PM
and the NHS took none of those @AaronHall
 
Robably exceeds most of the salaries I've earned per month here, unless it was < $2k.
 
Still don't get it... us tax payer and ni payers in the UK, just think it's water off a duck's back kind of thing
to even think about what it'd mean to get private medical insurance on top of what we're already paying - sighs
 
@JonClements Interestingly (to me) I would not have considered Medicare/NHS as insurance until I moved to the US - that's the lens it's viewed through here. Very much paying for a product, rather than contributing to public (or group, in insurance terms) good.
 
@toonarmycaptain yup... if everyone chips in a little ....
when you get to know me a bit more, you'll realise I'm centre left (or even extreme left on some) and middle right (or extreme right) on some things :p
 
10:42 PM
@JonClements I vary politically. I care more about policy and science/evidence. There's a pretty good chance I'll support a policy I disagree with ideologically or politically, if it'll very effectively achieve a policy-goal I see as worthwhile.
 
10:53 PM
@toonarmycaptain sadly, we seem to operate in a world where there's only left/right now
 
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