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9:00 PM
@abarnert I think it's more about the huge chunks of a process that are abstracted away for me
 
wim
IIRC it took python until uvloop to outperform node js
 
what happened
 
Actually, if they were willing to do a py3-style break, it wouldn’t be too hard to turn JS into a decent language. And it’s not like browsers couldn’t support both side by side for years or decades to come. But instead they’re evolving it like 90s C++.
I suppose the idea is that things like typescript make it irreverent whether JavaScript is any good.
 
most javascript libraries are just awful
 
If you start with a large and opinionated framework and never use libraries from outside that framework without rewriting them... but that’s like saying exception handling works just fine in C++ if you never use C libraries.
 
9:18 PM
stackoverflow.com/q/49438025/4909087 too broad (and likely too unclear)
 
Earlier on there was a discussion tracking what experienced developers searched for
From this question and comment trail, it's clear that we can get very different search results for the same term. I'm curious what you get for "python product function" as first result.
 
this is my first and second google result
 
So, same as mine
I'm really not sure Torxed would make it up that he got a different result, it just got me thinking about the LMGTFY-type responses.... I wondered whether we might get very different results to a newbie programmer.
"newbie" doesn't apply in his case, but it suggests that previous searches can have a significant impact on results
 
If I search "python product" I get the itertools docs. If I search "python product function" I get some SO answers that aren't as helpful as the docs, and then the docs.
 
@abarnert C++ is awful
 
9:30 PM
Actually, the same SO question twice, just like Aran-Fey.
 
Ok, so the 3 of us got the same result
Maybe it isn't a real thing then
 
DuckDuckGo gives me the same results, but with a summary excerpted from a different SO question above the search results.
Bing collapses the two duplicate links to the same SO question into one, and summarizes the same SO question it's linking instead of a different one, which is kind of nice. But it also merges the 2.x and 3.x docs into a single link to 2.x, which is less nice.
 
eh, what was it I searched yesterday that brought up P3 docs up as top result? Can't remember :( Normally it's always* P2.7.

* From what I happen to take note of
 
@AnttiHaapala I love C++. No matter how deep you go, there's more minutia to learn. And whenever you start getting close, a new version comes out that has new unexpected interactions between the new features. Sure, it's not a very good language for writing computer programs, but it's a great source of intellectual puzzles.
 
@abarnert 'So your question is, "Why is Python so powerless that it allows someone to write a library that can be used incorrectly?"'. So that's what the others meant when they said abrasive earlier.
 
9:36 PM
60% of the time it's always Python 2.7 documentation :P
 
@abarnert I have enough useful problems for me to solve.
I don't count "finding the umpteenth way of doing something during compilation time using template metaprogramming" as "useful"
 
@OlivierMelançon The asker sets the tone. I usually bend over backward to give them the benefit of the doubt, but if they start off by saying "Python sucks because I'm stupid", it doesn't matter how far you bend over backward; there is no benefit of the doubt to give them.
 
@abarnert Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with what you said over there. It is laughable to claim to have found a bug in a language the first day you use it.
 
Sam
I have a package listed in my project interpreter pane of PyCharm but when trying to import the package within a .py file, I'm not getting no module found.. How would I go about troubleshooting this?
 
@Sam well, I seem to have that problem again all the time :F
 
Sam
9:45 PM
Most of my packages are working, it's Flask that doesn't seem to be playing ball
 
Sam
10:08 PM
Turns out the module is actually loading, its just showing as an unresolved reference in PyCharm :S
 
I need some career advice. Would anyone be willing to listen to me bounce some ideas off of them?
 
If you're targeting a group of strangers for this discussion, it would probably be best to say what kind of area you're looking at, no?
 
10:24 PM
Did you kick them, or did they leave?
Also, is it me, or are there a ton of comments that have been unstarred?
 
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ it was a kick this time
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ examples?
 
There were a lot of comments besides this one
4 hours ago, by DSM
When I was in school we used "Dummit & Foote" as a curseword when a math problem wasn't going well.
Above and below, they've all been removed
 
I have 2 job offers, both about the same pay, but working on very different projects. One is a greenfield project working as a contractor for a large company. The project sounds very exciting and is hardcore backend development (which sounds super exciting). The other is working for an established startup that just got a new round of seed capital doing presales engineering (making proof of concepts for the client) The work is not nearly as technical, but the company has a lot of growth room.
There is a little bit of imposter syndrome that I'm still not entirely sure I have the technical chops for the first role. But it also offers a huge amount of technical growth opportunity, which I like.
The 2nd role I could do in my sleep, but could be a lot more growth in the future, as they've gone from 100 clients to 700 clients in 1 year......
I don't know what to do!
 
I assume (1) offers more money?
 
I always take interesting over potential payout. But then you may be in a different career situation from me. I've had enough high-risk positions that didn't pay out (some of which I'm really glad I did for other reasons) that I just no longer even think about becoming an overnight millionaire by 25, 30, 40, 50, whenever…
Meanwhile, a role I could do in my sleep, I can't do it anymore when it gets too boring. I mean, every job is going to have stretches where you're doing tedious maintenance crap, but that's not a problem if you know that next week you'll be back on something exciting that makes a difference.
 
10:36 PM
@roganjosh Net/Net, there is a .7% difference in pay.
 
mmm then it doesn't sound like a contractor position I'm familiar with in the UK
Or, the startup is insane in what they offer :P
Unless the startup is likely to issue shares to people who join the train early, they'll still be looking for staff 1 year from now if they actually have successful growth
 
@roganjosh the contractor position is: A software company got hired by a large corporation to develop a tool suite for them. I would work directly for the software company and serve as a contractor on the project.
@roganjosh they're in that phase right now. They're trying to hire 60 people in Houston THIS YEAR.
 
Also, are you interested in changing your role over the next few years? A fast-growing startup can make it really easy to transition yourself more toward guru/principle, or research, or lead/management, or whatever; a contract job for a large company, they're hiring you to do exactly what you do.
 
Yes, but if they grow, they'll be looking to hire NEXT year too
 
@roganjosh uipath.com
is true.
 
10:42 PM
I don't know what the standard is in the US. For a startup you might have a decent shot at shares in the UK if you catch on early enough
 
@roganjosh yeah, shares aren't on the table right now (they're a startup in the sense that they're new and still raising capital, but their valuation is at 1.1bn USD right now).
 
Otherwise, I'd probably take the big company first and find out how frustrating it is to work in that system, then go to the start-up a little down the line and unleash what you learned to make impact :)
@JGrindal realistically I'd say they're past the point of issuing shares to you, but that's entirely subjective
Or, if they do, they aren't going to be in the quantity that will flip to be millions tomorrow
 
That's an excellent point
 
So your advise would be: focus on the technical growth right now (even if it involves a lot of stumbling) and then if I hate it I can always re-evaluate down the line.
And if I miss a growth train, there will be more growth trains down the line too.
@Code-Apprentice cbg, friend.
 
10:47 PM
Well, where exactly are you yourself in progression?
 
Man, I have no idea. I start to feel pretty good about my knowledge and then I learn about something new and I'm like "I don't know YAMS"
 
Please do bear in mind that this has all been my personal opinion too. I can only draw from what I have seen or done and I didn't hit my "millionaire by 30" goal
 
Yeah, I didn't hit mine either haha.
 
Contracting is actually quite fun
You'll be dropped into a problem that makes no sense
In my case, I know there's a better way (logically) but I'm hampered by having to learn how to implement it
Startups are fun too. You'll get a lot of power to execute your ideas
 
I don't like contracting. You have to spend as much time searching for the next job as working. Also, it's hard to get inspired by the vision of a company when you're not part of it.
 
10:53 PM
But big companies are the ones that will teach you some boring lessons that actually catalyse you in the other two situations.
 
@Aran-Fey so you just rent out the search results and take them back after 2 weeks? Are there late fees? Do you have to place a hold on search results that someone else is currently using?
 
@abarnert See, I wouldn't be doing contracting in the strictest sense. I would be a developer for a consultant, they'd just be pimping me out. At the end of this project, the theory would be they would have more projects in the pipeline.
that I could move to.
(plus, this is a multi-year project)
 
It's really difficult here because you're giving more details and my own opinion on your decision will leak through. It might be best to go away and think about it and then ask about specific concerns (for example, I have no idea how the tax system works in US) for your decision. But the core decision must come from what you want to do.
 
user6276743
What does this mean: "representing each room as an object, and keeping your Person instances within those rooms" Like an object in an object?
 
11:03 PM
IIRC that was a comment from someone who has been kicked from chat
 
huh?
 
8 hours ago, by Kevin
@WeavingBird1917 in terms of best practices, if I were you I'd definitely investigate the possibility of representing each room as an object, and keeping your Person instances within those rooms. The objects could be a built-in collection type, such as list or dict; or it might make sense to make a formal Room class. It all depends on what you're trying to do.
 
No, that was from Kevin ^
but taking half a sentence from a 3-line message posted 8 hours ago and asking for its meaning is...suboptimal
 
user6276743
Really he was kicked?
 
No.
 
user6276743
11:06 PM
Oh I thought rogan was referring to the comment I posted
 
@vaultah I voted for you in the primary!
 
Yes.
but he said "IIRC" and he didn't
 
user6276743
@vaultah I'm wondering if there's an example of it that I can check out
 
user6276743
Currently I've modeled my ppl and rooms as different objects.
 
@WeavingBird1917 you'd reply to the person who suggested that to you
 
user6276743
11:08 PM
Thanks, it was a while ago :P
 
Yes, I remembered incorrectly
 
@roganjosh Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.
 
@JGrindal thank you for your support! :) Note that the election phase is more important winking hard
 
@vaultah I'll vote for you there too.
 
@JGrindal I wish you luck mate and having 2 job opportunities is a good position to be in, in any case.
 
11:12 PM
That's a fair point. I just wish one was significantly better than the other haha
 
... 1st world problems :)
 
Problem of plenty
 
@roganjosh Yeah, I have 2 outstanding job offers BOTH of which are willing to pay me more than I think I'm worth, I just can't choose which one I want to take!
I'm leaning towards the one within walking distance of my home, though.
 
Hahaha, after all that, it comes down to commuter distance?!
 
Houston traffic is a bear.
 
11:16 PM
My classic 1st world problem was having a PC on my desk, I also needed a laptop, had a printer, a scanner, a camera plugged in to PC and I threw my hands up; "this desk just isn't big enough for all my technology!"
 
11:27 PM
@roganjosh I've been meaning to ask... does your name have any relation to the Rogan Josh dish found in Indian cuisine?
 
It does, but only because when I was about 13 I needed a chat handle for something like an AOL chatroom and it incorporates my name, Josh. I'm Caucasian and if a bit of spice hits my tongue then I go red in the face and sweat. kormajosh might be more apt. It's just a name that has stuck and usually hasn't been taken.
 
YES!!! I KNEW IT
I asked, because another interpretation could've been "Rog n' Josh", where Rog is your best friend and you two came up with your handle together, and a suitable concatenation of your names resulted in "roganjosh"
 
Nah, it's literally because it's a convenient handle.
Just don't go registering with it :P
 
Nah, don't worry. I quite like my name :D
 
@Code-Apprentice I haven't fleshed out all the details yet. I'm an idea guy; I'll leave that stuff to the other people :P
That reminds me, I have to update my userscript. People whose name is more than 50% non-ascii letters will be promoted from ROs to moderators
Every now and then I think "javascript probably isn't as bad as people make it sound", but then it pulls stuff like this:
'123'.match(/1/g)
> Array [ "1" ]
'123'.match(/9/g)
> null
 
11:57 PM
@Aran-Fey what do you expect it to do?
return an empty array for the second one?
 

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