« first day (2222 days earlier)      last day (2726 days later) » 

12:00 PM
do you know which "schema" it is complaining about?
 
there are these things called "radicals" and you can "count strokes" and shit, but it doesn't get anywhere
@Marius answered again ...
 
hmm that is weird @AnttiHaapala because the url is in the pypi file, in the format mentioned by the pypi docs
 
@Marius can you sudo-edit the file, line 70, and add print(repr(self.repository)) before it
    if schema not in ('http', 'https'):
        print(repr(self.repository))
        raise AssertionError("unsupported schema " + schema)
 
which file @AnttiHaapala ?
 
/usr/lib64/python2.7/distutils/command/upload.py
 
12:06 PM
ah
 
@AnttiHaapala Oh, ok.
 
@AnttiHaapala that returns 'pypitest'
 
@PM2Ring you'd spend more bytes to describe the characters and you'd need massive lookup tables to condense this information into a single codepoint then...
 
so the wrong repo
 
@Marius could it be it :P
 
12:08 PM
my bad
damnit
 
@PM2Ring I take pull requests :-P
@AnttiHaapala I feel your pain. Want some more of it? Try reading the RTF specs.
 
@Marius I updated my answer
 
actually the error was that the name after -r was not the same as in the pypirc when i tried after updating setuptools @AnttiHaapala, as -r also takes names
 
@Marius fixed yet again :P
 
hehe :D
the error could have been a bit more detailed though
why not just say that it's the wrong url, or that the entry does not exist in the pypirc file
 
12:14 PM
PRs accepted
 
might just do that
 
while at it, it should be named scheme not schema
and could print out the repository url
 
Wooow, Magisch has the least votes right now. Which means that not one of the other candidates does. Wow.
 
"Invalid repository url 'pypitest'; scheme is neither http nor https"
@AndrasDeak yeah which proves these mod elections are a joke
 
I'm not laughing:P
of course a bad joke is still a joke
 
12:16 PM
you cannot have representative democracy when you don't know what/whom the candidates represent
 
the good thing is that mods don't represent anything, hopefully common sense
 
as they said before... "they set the tone of discussion"
 
heh
 
not that Magisch was my number one choice, but certainly better than those clowns who got negative scores during nomination
 
that's my point
some of them entirely unfit, some of them of questionable posture
 
12:20 PM
but then SO is an American company, perhaps this is USian view of the representative democ racy.
 
and I see no reason why the final elections will play out different from the primaries
@AnttiHaapala I don't think that holds water
SO is wildly international, and people vote after their own stupidity:P
 
no, the voting system
 
well the system is one thing, but the fact that Magisch is coming out worst (by a very small margin right now), is due to the voters, not the system
 
like, "you're voting, you're exercising demockrazy"
of course it is due to the system.
not the voting system.
 
I don't know most people (or only vaguely know them), I don't have time to read through all their statements and/or sample of meta posts ... So, who does one vote for? Most people are not qualified to vote
 
12:22 PM
but the whole community and how little information and what kind of discussions precede the elections.
 
I just downvoted two people I don't like
 
whoever read the nominations and comments (and I don't mean the Q&A) shouldn't conclude that Magisch is the worst
 
@Carpetsmoker only 2, wow
 
You need to really do your best to make me remember a name on meta
 
@AndrasDeak whoever reads the nominations
they're not there in the voting page
@AndrasDeak that is what I mean by the system
 
12:23 PM
you can't blame the system for voters who can't be arsed to inform themselves even minimally
 
people got pinged now to stackoverflow.com/election
@AndrasDeak the problem is:
there is the minimal information, the one info that the users themselves wrote
when you go to election booth in Finland, you will have: party-list, name, number.
not some bs.
 
dunno...
 
the election page should have none.
 
yeah, I can see that
 
It should have Candidate A, Candidate B, Candidate C...
and then links "go read here about these guys"
 
12:25 PM
but then the same idiots would only vote based on score and profile picture, if anything:P
oh, and nationality
 
now the biggest liar gets the most votes
 
haha let me not comment:D
you can still bring it up on meta as a feature-request or a bug:P
 
that wasn't necessarily connected to the reality
 
3 more days
 
43
Q: Hide all comments by default on election nominations, for clarity and fairness

Pekka 웃Currently, comment threads are displayed in full underneath every candidate's nomination. That makes the page very long, and it makes it harder to discover at a glance who is running. Talk about a wall of text. Also, the current system of hiding comments after a certain breakoff point is unfair...

here
 
12:27 PM
oh, nice
 
-2
A: Hide all comments by default on election nominations, for clarity and fairness

sr28I think my main concern with this feature request is that people are effectively being encouraged to make a decision based solely on the nominees summaries. These are likely to be polished pieces of work and aimed to highlight only the good things they've done. It seems like you would agree with ...

your lookalike answered, got -2
 
nice...
In hindsight, the scores in the primary elections (where comments are entirely gone, and only self-serving sales pitches are left) clearly show that your fears were well-founded. Some of the most questionable candidates are nowhere near the bottom of the board. Very sad. — Andras Deak 1 min ago
there, I democracied:D
 
@AndrasDeak perhaps at least "find your candidate" machine where there would be some political-compass type questions
 
some of those candidates never would've given enough information to put together a compass for them
 
no, I mean they'd have to fill in a multichoice questionnaire as part of the nomination process
if they didn't answer to some questions, then they'd not be recommended to someone who said it was important to them
even that would be better than the current tshi we have now
 
12:38 PM
re-cbg
 
recbg
left a comment for Pekka as well on the question
 
cbg y'all! :D
 
cbg Games
 
@vaultah so, how goes it?
 
@GamesBrainiac \o
 
12:41 PM
@BhargavRao yo!
 
@GamesBrainiac can't complain, you?
 
@vaultah yeah, just got a standing desk at the office :D
so real happy about that
 
Okay, That takes a lot of space, so Nope
 
meh
 
@AndrasDeak hmm, googled Pekka a bit and seems that he indeed is half-Finnish
 
12:45 PM
@GamesBrainiac these things are great
 
@AnttiHaapala must be the fun half
 
There are also treadmill desks. Linus Torvalds uses one
 
(one never can be too sure based on first names alone)
 
rhubarb for now
 
Rbrb Andras
 
12:56 PM
what-ho slow-release cabbage to you all this fine whatever it is wherever you are
 
As creepy as the Google Maps timeline is.. it is super helpful for travel expenses..
but boy is it creepy!
 
I actually turned it off bcoz it was snooping on me a lot.
 
@vaultah they most certainly are :)
 
1:06 PM
@BhargavRao you CV those
I've cast one close vote already on the first page
 
It's a lot of posts.
I'm clearing the queue :D
 
so cast cvs on those on the first page!!!
they are in the queue but probably will age out again
 
Yeah, I'll cast now.
 
What?! Python hash for storing into database, man, that is really wrong. hash is guaranteed to be constant only during one interpreter execution. — Antti Haapala 5 secs ago
wowow
 
1:25 PM
Sounds like a fairly disastrous design mistake (unless EVERYTHING has a __hash__ method)
Or does the hash randomization apply to user-generated hashes anyway? Forget what I said, "really wrong" is correct.
 
@PeterVaro Cool, added.
 
what is the preferred way of splitting up pypi packages depending on which major version of python you have? Can pip figure that out itself if i define it in setup.py somehow? and have either two different github repos, or two different tags.
 
You could always write your code so it's version-intercompatible. But that's not always trivial.
And it locks you out of neat features like nonlocal and newish standard modules
 
Yeah i rather want to keep them apart, to use all the features that both versions have
But is it possible to keep two versions in one repo, and make one pypi package that chooses version based on local python installation?
 
I've never put anything on pypi, so I don't know.
 
1:35 PM
wonder if i can add my own scripting to setup.py, that checks it, and changes the location of the library based on it
 
The trick is to only target python 3. Makes things simpler
 
hehe, for sure! though would not work in my case
i at least want a basic one working for 2.7, then only add feature requests on 3 for example
but first, i would need to find out how i should differentiate between the two
 
@Marius don't
@Marius the preferred way to split pypi packages is to not split.
 
hmm, that's a shame
 
PyPI doesn't really support any version splitting
just stop supporting Python 2 :D
Python 2 is dead
the only thing you can do is say: "versions <2 are Python 2 only", "versions 2>= are python 3 only"
everything else is broken
or then you'd register "foo2" and "foo3" as names which is even worse.
I'd write polyglot code or ditch python 2
writing polyglot code isn't trivial but neither is supporting 2 codebases with same featuresets
 
1:49 PM
Or each module is a facade for the 2 or 3 version of the module, and checks at import time. But that increases code duplication and testing overhead. I'd go for polyglot, or ideally, target only 3.
 
I need to seriously consider rewriting my code for 3 then
guess i jumped on that bandwagon a bit to late
 
Actually, does that work? Defining __all__ dynamically?
 
Python 2 will be dead when it is no longer necessary to convince people that Python 2 is dead.
 
Unless you're doing really fancy things, you're probably 90% 3-compatible already! And anything else can be helped with tooling like 2to3
 
@KevinMGranger no, but one could use some sys.path fsckery
 
1:50 PM
The trouble is that it's hard to change habits
even simple things like print instead of print()
 
that's why you should change them early
 
And many people aren't really Python programmers. They're just people who occasionally write a little bit of Python
 
right now, from __future__ import print_function, absolute_import, division
 
hmm, im lot's of my code is dependant on time formats, i think timezone management changed completely in p3 right?
 
@AnttiHaapala and braces
 
1:51 PM
@Marius no it didn't, broken as before.
 
hahaha
 
not hahaha
 
though it changed from pytz lib to .timezone instead
 
Python datetime is the worst datetime module I've ever used, and I've used quite a many
@Marius nope, you still need pytz to do anything that pretends to be sane
 
i had such a hard time getting the right format i wanted for my last code, ended up having to write this, just for output: paste.pound-python.org/show/NTdOWmJ6OK2oWD7pmw9o
made me cringe
 
1:53 PM
@Marius still broken as designed
datetime sucks
3
it is the worst module in the stdlib.
 
...urllib[23]?
 
things would be better if it weren't in the stdlib, then nothing would depend on it
@KevinMGranger urllib3 isn't in stdlib
urllib{,2} are. and they're still saner, 2 at least
 
Antti speaks them truths. Have a star.
 
I couldn't even remember if there was a 3
 
urllib3 is a 3rd-party module, jokes on the fact that Ø and 2 didn't get it right :P
 
1:55 PM
Sep 28 at 12:34, by Kevin M Granger
I still don't get the datetime hatetime. Y'all kids don't know how nice you have it.
 
anything implementing datetime worse?
i never had any problems with in in PHP, though that was about the only problem you wouldn't have.
 
@AnttiHaapala whats so bad about it?
 
@GamesBrainiac I've discussed it monthly :D
@Marius they thought "oh now we will implement this datetime better than PHP and such"
 
Can we add the list of complaints to the wiki or common questions?
 
false abstraction
@KevinMGranger could
 
1:59 PM
At least Python's date stuff doesn't annoy every person who ever uses the language by whining about setting a "default timezone"...
 
@AnttiHaapala they could never be more wrong..
i have been looking around the arrow lib though
have not tested it yet, was hoping it had a better implementation
 
@Marius they added a "fold" parameter that potentially could handle dst transitions in Python 3.6...
 
Oh man, I'm loving this ethics training if only for the stock photos
 
things that even PHP with its seconds-since-epoch could handle...
 
2:01 PM
@Marius ah arrow <3
 
recbg
 
re-cbg @Andras
 
Jul 22 at 17:09, by Antti Haapala
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC because datetime is the shittiest module I've seen related to time handling in any programming languages (excluding arrow of course)
surprise...
 
By the way, how goes your dattime, Antti?
 
@AndrasDeak I've had to do work
 
2:02 PM
@AnttiHaapala so you approve of arrow? Is it worth to take a closer look at it?
 
I made my own templating language that does things right. It currently has 3 users.
I don't have energy to do more things right
 
i was already sold when i saw it was fully timezone aware
 
@Marius ^
read the quote above
@Marius rather, see delorean.
 
ah lol, i saw the quotes now
 
though I haven't used DeLorean
but you could try it and see how badly it fails
 
2:05 PM
@AnttiHaapala that sucks:P
 
you would think that time would be one of the easier parts to implement
 
@Marius well, yes.
one would have a timeline of seconds and fractions, perhaps fixed to a certain point in time.
 
Not nano/microseconds?
 
Fixed for Kevin M Pedantic.
... then some rules on how to interpret these as dates in some timezone...
of course this is exactly the kind of thing that Python datetime doesn't do.
 
gotta love formats like this..
lass datetime.timedelta([days[, seconds[, microseconds[, milliseconds[, minutes[, hours[, weeks]]]]]]])
 
2:07 PM
@Marius now, someone wanted to get nanoseconds to datetime
Guido said: "nanoseconds, YAGNI"
 
why would you ever need that?
 
then they said that "it is impossible to modify datetime to add nanoseconds"
because it is common to have sub-microsecond-precision timestamps now
 
17
Q: Get POSIX/Unix time in seconds and nanoseconds in Python?

BillI've been trying to find a way to get the time since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC in seconds and nanoseconds in python and I cannot find anything that will give me the proper precision. I have tried using time module, but that precision is only to microseconds, so the code I tried was: import time ...

 
What about when the international community of scientists or whatever decide we're going to have another leap second? How do those changes get backported?
 
so just 6 years ago, that was not possible?
 
2:09 PM
@Marius is that second-micro-milli real or typo?
@KevinMGranger leap seconds happen a lot, don't they?
 
Morning cabbage.
 
@AndrasDeak the format i posted?
 
@KevinMGranger there's no leap seconds in Python at all
 
@AndrasDeak I mean, every couple years, yeah.
 
> Since this system of correction was implemented in 1972, 26 leap seconds have been inserted, the most recent on June 30, 2015 at 23:59:60 UTC,[1] and the next leap second will be inserted on December 31, 2016, at 23:59:60 UTC.
 
2:10 PM
>>> datetime.datetime(2016,12,31,23,59,60)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: second must be in 0..59
 
@Marius yes. In that, micro is between second and milliseconds, which would be a disgrace
 
@AndrasDeak that is the official format yes, from their docs
 
wtf
 
heh, everyone will be celebrating new year a second too soon
 
and if i would try to only use a few of the values, it is so random what it adds/removes time from, if its hours, seconds, weeks etc
 
2:11 PM
@AndrasDeak though unix usually ignores leap seconds
they're drifted instead
 
Just like the twitterverse said: 2016 is bad enough and now they're telling us it'll be even longer
 
@Marius datetime.timedelta doesn't add "days, weeks, months"
 
the entire leap second thing should just be abolished, it serves no real use at all except to maintain an arbitrary definition of "noon" on one particular geographical area
 
@AnttiHaapala not? That is what i was using it for
 
2:12 PM
day - second - micro - milli - minute - hour - week seriously?
 
it's a genious format right?
 
>>> datetime.datetime(2015, 12, 31, 23, 59, 59) + datetime.timedelta(days=200)
datetime.datetime(2016, 7, 18, 23, 59, 59)
it depends on how you interpret that what is happening there.
 
yes, but let's say i want to add 10 minutes to the crrent time @AnttiHaapala
 
That's exactly what happens if you allow people to use month-day-year.
 
@Marius it doesn't do that
it works on "dates", it adds "supposed 10 minutes" to a date
if it happens to have a dst change, it gets that wrong
it gets things wrong all the time
 
2:14 PM
can't you add it to datetime.now or something?
 
currentdt += datetime.timedelta(*args), which was an impossible format to convert for normal user input to understand
 
@AndrasDeak no
 
so i just gave up on the args
 
weird
 
it now add seconds, and that's it
 
2:15 PM
If the datetime module were added now, I'm willing to bet those would all be keyword-only args
 
@Marius it wouldn't have done anything else otherwise either
@Marius days are exactly 86400 seconds in timedelta
>>> datetime.timedelta(seconds=80000000)
datetime.timedelta(925, 80000)
 
@AnttiHaapala yeah but i wanted to generate a easy interface for users to say like "minutes=10", instead of 0,0,0,0,10 or whatever the format it these days
 
and since the only way to add seconds to a date is to add a timedelta to it, it will never make it properly
@Marius the problem isn't the datetime.timedelta constructor
the problem is that it never does what you want
 
for me the only problem was the format in which they added value to the date
 
if you want a datetime 10 minutes from now and you can have a dst change, it isn't going to give the result you want.
 
2:18 PM
then how would you implement it then?
if i would need to support anything from year to second
 
While we're at it, let's abolish DST
 
and add it to the current time
 
But DST is useful
 
I never understood why time ranges and relative time deltas were distinct, but you DST point just cleared it up for me
Useful for confusing people and causing heart attacks, yes
 
oh, this is the confetti makes your streaming slow guy
 
@AndrasDeak >Human-readable dates can be specified in universally understood formats such as 05/07/11.
I actually got angry there
And the "UTF-8 is brilliant" guy
 
I just saw something that linked for the previous video
 
The channel also interviewed Kerninghan once
 
the one that is called Kernighan?
 
2:24 PM
Kernighan as in Kerninghan & Ritchie, as in creators of the C programming language
 
so much for Kevin M Pedantic
 
;) oh apparently he just worked on the book, not the language itself. But he did contribute to Unix
 
Bono really is a versatile guy, then
 
anyone familiar with good python SOAP libs?
 
2:30 PM
> I figured out it. Very stupid. I didn't install flask.
:-|
 
@davidism your favourite kinds of questions
 
Should that answer be VLQ?
I can't see how that's salvageable.
 
the answer solves the problem at hand
but the question is delvable
 
does anyone know how to print text in different colors in python?
 
2:43 PM
have you googled?
 
Use the Peacock package, developed exclusively by @Antti
 
I use colorama for my text coloring needs.
It also lets you move the cursor around the screen, but it's not as well-documented.
 
@AndrasDeak i have googled it and found something called colorama but it didn't work
 
:<
 
If you're still scarred by that, do you have colortrauma?
 
2:44 PM
It threw up un error saying that there was no module named colorama
 
Perhaps this is a silly question. Did you install it first?
 
perhaps not
 
i just installed python
are there separate packages
 
Seems to be a common issue with certain packages lately
 
Yeah, you've got to open the command prompt and enter pip install colorama
 
2:46 PM
@TheOneWhoLikesToKnow are you familiar with python?
@Kevin what's pip?
 
I dunno, it's the thing I type when I need to install a thing.
 
@AndrasDeak A bit
 
I bet it stands for... Python... Installer... Pancakes.
 
I like pancakes
 
Sorry, I got distracted at the end there. I haven't eaten today.
 
2:47 PM
Oh is that what Perl's thing is named after too? CPANcakes?
 
Pancake Illuminati confirmed
 
I always redirect those emails to the CPAN folder
 
ill test the pip right now
 
> pip is a recursive acronym that can stand for either "Pip Installs Packages" or "Pip Installs Python" or "Python Installer Po" in a more respectful manner.
 
Mystery solved.
 
2:50 PM
so...no pancakes :|
 
Three possible acronyms... Half Life 3 confirmed
 
when i tried the pip install colorama it highlighted the word 'install' and said that it was an invalid syntax
 
@Kevin Python 3 confirmed
@TheOneWhoLikesToKnow Where are you typing that?
 
you didn't write that in your python script, did you?
 
Sounds like you're running it inside the Python interactive prompt. You need to run it in the regular Windows* command prompt
(*assuming you're on Windows)
 
2:54 PM
@poke i opened a new file/window and saved it as a .pyw
 
Well, that’s wrong then ^^
 
If you're thinking "what's the windows command prompt? Never seen anything like that", open the "Run..." window with the Windows+R keyboard shortcut, and enter "cmd" in the box.
 
I would like some pancakes with some syrup and some coffee
 
@TheOneWhoLikesToKnow Rather than playing 20 questions, please just read this before continuing packaging.python.org/installing.
 
yummy ...
 
2:55 PM
@davidism ok
 
@TheOneWhoLikesToKnow does your teacher by any chance have a habit of giving assignments where you're not allowed to import anything?
 
We really need an illustrated guide to the difference between various prompts and IDE windows.
 
@AndrasDeak no
 
There’s probably a video on YouTube made by a 10 year old who is using Windows Movie Maker overlays to explain it. Or worse: Types the instructions during the video inside notepad
 
@TheOneWhoLikesToKnow that's a relief:)
 
2:57 PM
@AndrasDeak yeah
 
So, problem solved, right? I need to know when it's ok to dust my hands off satisfactorially.
 
do you also do that in a satisrecursive manner?
 

« first day (2222 days earlier)      last day (2726 days later) »