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16:00
@JGreenwell reminds me of a thing I once read that was two computer programs having a philosophical debate, more or less
Whenever I see someone say "machines will never be able to really think, no matter how advanced they get" I think they must be using a truly odd definition of "think"
"Machines don't think... Yet." is far more defensible
@Kevin if you add "along current lines of progress" to the end I probably agree with that
thirty years ago, they said AI was twenty five years away. Today, they say AI is twenty five years away. The current line of progress appears to be a flat line :-P
Yeah, exactly :)
If it were called "hidden trend and connection spotting" instead of AI then I think it'd be less misleading
Although I'm probably missing some bits of it there
16:08
I'm actually optimistic that "number of years away" will eventually truly converge to zero.
Fuzzy pattern matching?
But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven...
Kevin just dropped some B bombs
Co-opting bible verses for computer science is a fun hobby.
messing with philosophy majors on the definition of think is also fun
16:14
I've been looking for an opportunity to drop "test everything; hold fast what is good.". Sounds like a glowing endorsement of the scientific method if you ask me
@Kevin Though I'd guess a lot of science ends out forgetting to test some of their assumptions
@JGreenwell Just hold a spoon up in front of 'em and go... "go on then... tell me there's no f*ing spoon smart a??e!" :p
Most experiments seem to take for granted the fact that reality exists and our senses our trustworthy. Shaky foundations IMO
there was this one thing I read about a couple years ago... some guy was trying to replicate an experiment and kept failing to reproduce the results. Turns out that the original researchers thought the correct results were just the noise
so they discarded it
turns out all of the results they got that validated their hypothesis were the noise
I forget what it was all about, only that it was a fairly commonly held understanding by the community that cared about that thing
@JGreenwell then... if they come back with some rubbish, then hit then a few times with the spoon, tell 'em to stay there, then go grab a sledge hammer... hold that in front of 'em... and go: "Okay... it looks like the spoon did exist... did you want to explain how this sledge hammer doesn't exist as well"... but make sure you smile nicely :)
16:18
@WayneWerner they don't want you to know about cold fusion
With the replication crisis being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of thing happened repeatedly
This is why we don't have flying cars yet.
DSM
DSM
Thessalonian cabbage for all.
16:21
also cause car accidents are bad enough on the ground
Are they? I think I read a study saying so, but who can I trust any more?
user559633
that's just what big ground car wants you to believe
we do have flying cars. they're called helicopters.
;)
I won't be satisfied until I can fold my flying car into a briefcase like on The Jetsons
user559633
goddamn, i love microcenter so much that i want to take them out for a nice steak dinner and call them back the next day
16:23
I'll get on to inventing a conveyor belt you can get stuck to and whirl around
user559633
just put trains everywhere
user559633
did i mention i love trains?
I doesn't matter anyway, self-driving cars will one day be everywhere and then the whole of humanity will see the true robot rebellion ;)
trains are pretty awesome. roll on hyperloop.
Yeah is that happening?
16:24
self-driving cars is short term - ptps are where that happens.
*personal transportation pods
user559633
precision time
user559633
dammit
boom
@JGreenwell isn't there a Stephen King novel where the machines take over all the cars/trucks and they start running people down... I remember a scene in a gas station and people are trying to work out how to not get killed...
apparently Finland was going to get its own hyperloop across the baltic?
16:25
@JonClements that's definitely an episode of Futurama, and probably also the Simpsons
you mean Christine?
@JonClements Yes, it's a movie too
16:26
Nope - neither of those... found this link... birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/03/30/stephen-kings-killer-cars
there's been quite a few of 'em
I don't think that one has it running anyone down though.
Or Maximum Overdrive.
Man, Stephen King is really scared of cars. :P
oh, maybe it was maximum overdrive
i remember thelawn mower bit
this is where we need giphy.
/giphy stephen king spooky lamp
16:29
or just "stephen king family guy"
spooky lamp is more evocative though :)
"family guy stephen king ghost writer" is funnier ;)
haha, hadn't seen that one
We need giphy search in rabbit. No way it can back fire.
I remember one scene (think it was Family Guy) where a publisher has stephen king in front of him and he's asking what the next novel is... SK looks around, grabs a lamp off the table and starts going "ooo.... lamp monster.... lamp monster!"... the publisher just sighs and says: "okay... when can we have it?" :p
16:31
Just gonna favourite that for future reference @Ffisegydd
Jun 14 at 19:50, by tristan
can't wait for the next room meeting when someone's widow comes in to tell us one of the semi-regular members has epilepsy and he will no longer be coming around
had epilepsy, if she's a widow, surely?
Blame tristan and his bad Englishes.
we do not discriminate against the undead here
Maybe the semi-regular member got better but no longer wishes to speak to us.
16:33
he not make the good wordspeak
We do discriminate against ginger people though
right, me and my codeine fuzzed brain are going to brave the outside world, and try and pick up my child. 60/40 chance I get the right one.
DSM
DSM
@tristan: your big ground car comment went over well. "Loooooool whoever said that has gained a bajillion respect points"/"Was it Kevin" to which I replied "Nerd cop Tristan" (how you're distinguished from the many other Tristans).

My IRL friends have a strange, but not entirely inaccurate, view of you lot.
also logically - nobody defined who she was widowed to - could be second or nth husband
Yeah, damn ginger people.
16:38
wat
I posted to C langauge docs
they say "please post with /* */ comments"
are people still making the argument that // isn't supported in old C so shouldn't be used?
I can imagine a wife with a dark sense of humor referring to herself as a "widow" if her husband had a dangerous surgery in the distant past and was clinically dead for N seconds on the operating table, but is now fine
Heh. That would be fun
I'm in favor of using humor to cope with serious situations. I've got a friend that got a prominent scar in a car accident. He tells people he got it by saving a baby seal from a shark attack.
Or he fought off a bear with karate. The details keep changing.
if your going to lie about a scar - start it of by saying "I once got drunk with __insert favorite action hero__ and ...."
16:47
@JGreenwell Pretty specious, since why write "someone's widow" if you just mean "a widow"? Clearly every widow has to be someone's widow, so if the someone was of no significance to us ... well, you get hte point I am sure.
@MorganThrapp Are you trying to tell us ginger people get root privs?
@JonClements any London trips planned?
@JGreenwell it is supported in the standard since year 1999.
@AnttiHaapala hence my surprise
@JGreenwell and even though Micro$not doesn't support the standards from 1999 or this millennium, then at least they do support these
@holdenweb Not planned... but if you had something in mind?
adsfadskjdsalkjf
I hate docs. I cannot respond to a improvement request
16:50
Nothing specific, but would catch you for a pint if you were in the area
@Kevin That reminds me of this song: How did the young man lose his leg? by The Perch Creek Family Jugband
@holdenweb I need to get this week over with... but yeah... it's ideal have a pint and chat weather :)
They're forcing C89? Sounds like it's time to "update" all of those docs to K&R C.
@KevinMGranger :P
I am not sure about "forcing" but someone just complained immediately
@AnttiHaapala considering the quality and reviews I've seen on SOD (like someone with only rep in bash tag approving horrible stuff) I would not be surprised by a comment about it (double slash) not being supported - but would also be surprised cause it has for last 16 years
was all I meant :)
16:53
I think there was a "canonical" dupe for this, does anyone have the link?
@JGreenwell apparently this tries to be C89 compatible.
but C language is not C89.
C11 is C language.
there are no such things as "old standards"
cbg
cbg
lol, news..
@JonClements Well drop me a line if you are going to be in town
cbg, @poke
nokia has apparently employed foreign experts in finland for 750 € / month.
16:58
@holdenweb will do - still the same number?
Indians and Poles
@BhargavRao ^
@JonClements Yup
@AnttiHaapala I would laugh if it wasn't sad
Only on , such answers can get multiple upvotes within a few seconds on a closed question…
@JGreenwell 50 - 75 % below the minimum wage of the juniors
17:01
was talking about the "old standards"
but it works in both instances
ah:D
"our newest car model conforms to government regulations from 1989"
"this bridge that we just built, conforms to the safety standards from 1989"
@poke y u no link??!!11
@Andras there
I hate the community around the C# tag, it’s good for nothing.
OK, end of work day. Rhubarb, all
17:08
....why do people think duplicate means "exact, I mean 100% exact, duplicate"
@poke +4-3 now facepalm
+5-3 now
it's a bad joke
+5-4, it's SO CLOSE
C# tag is just terrible
+6-3? no way
somebody got converted to the turd side
Also, where is that meta post that says “it doesn’t matter what the close target is”
/cc @Joncle
Russian pickles <3
@AnttiHaapala is that the kind of pickle that when faces an object that is not picklable, it just holds an uzi to the head of the object until it pickles itself?
no, that is Russian Mafia.
I am referring to gherkins
oooh:)
Russian-style fermented brine pickles.
too much salt though, if salt was good for health, that's what I'd be eating for every meal.
17:26
I have a hunch that our kovászos uborka are similar (those involve using sourdough for the fermentation process)
yeah looks about the same
@AnttiHaapala Yeah, most of my dad's pickles are pretty much just water, salt, leaves. Nothing else
You're all making me really hungry for some garlic dills
though not sure if they use sourdough or what ...
my peeps usually just stick in a few slices of bread into the jar:D
17:28
but they must be fermented, yes.
and put out into the sun
to ferment, I presume
mmmm, garlic dills are delicious
perfection is Finnish rye bread with butter, slices of ham or beef, some central european sliced cheese topped with fermented pickles.
you can have all the perfection in the world;)
You're all making me regret the salad I had for lunch. :/
17:31
Was there an animal sacrifice in your salad?
@MorganThrapp I had salad for lunch
or dinner...
@idjaw No. :/ Just goat cheese.
I eat only twice a day now
@MorganThrapp Shame. Shame. Shame.
@MorganThrapp They're made out of food for a reason.
17:32
I'm the same way, just lunch and dinner.
I wasn't all that hungry, until I finished my salad and realized that it had done almost nothing for my hunger.
these pickles are made in poland :D
all hail EU
from the domestic market, no need for imports from Russia
I've also had too much coffee today, so my caffeine to food ratio is off. I'm only vibrating a little.
:P
I drink Vietnamese coffee all the time...
that's the worst kind
17:35
That's my absolute favorite.
drop a spoon in and it stands upright.
@Antti how - when there is no spoon?
well, then perhaps Neo should just drink the coffee.
yeah I wonder if I should do pickles myself.
Gonna try to publish today the stuff I've done with rabbit so far. I'm having some difficulty getting the interface polished. I want to write a StackOverflowChatSession class which handles both POST requests and websocket notifications from the server, but it's awkward because you seemingly can't meaningfully change the parameters of the __init__ method of an autobahn.asyncio.websocket.WebSocketClientProtocol subclass.
Or maybe you can but I haven't gotten far enough through the asyncio docs.
is rabbit what used to be nidaba?
17:42
@Withnail rabbit's always been rabbit...
nidaba was something else...
oh ok, different thing.
Nah, they just happen to be projects under the same "sopython" umbrella
So StackActivity is the name of my WebSocketClientProtocol subclass, and it decides what to do in response to onConnect | onOpen | onMessage | onClose events from the web socket.
factory = WebSocketClientFactory(url, headers={"Origin":"http://chat.stackoverflow.com"})
factory.protocol = StackActivity
loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()
coro = loop.create_connection(factory, host, 80)
loop.run_until_complete(coro)
loop.run_forever()
loop.close()
@Kevin robots, umbrella... the curly braces are a lie
or is that a different franchise?
I don't see any obvious way to get the StackActivity instance that's created by create_connection. If I could get a reference to it before run_forever executes, I'd be in good shape
I guess I could put something like global theActivityInstance; theActivityInstance = self in the class' __init__. But I really super don't want to.
Another possibility is putting the entire StackActivity class definition inside the definition of StackOverflowChatSession.__init__ which is slightly better. At least I'm not tying myself down with global state.
But putting a class in a function makes me feel unclean.
it should
17:52
It's still marginally less gross than my "first thing I tried that worked" current design.
I guess I'll go with that for now, and if anyone complains, they can go ahead and make a pull request.
0
Q: How can we improve the c# tag to properly clean up of duplicate questions?

pokeThis is a very common scenario in the c# tag: Someone posts a rather simple question, it quickly gets one or two answers (usually very brief answers) that just “show the code” without explaining much. Far too often, these kind of answers come from high-rep people, including those who have a gold...

gogo gadget meta effect, get rid of that answer >_<
@poke deploying minions
The funny part is that at some time, that answerer commented on his answer asking why he received so many downvotes
then a few minutes later, he edited the answer and the comment was gone…
nice
now I need to calculate the date of Easter
in javascirpt
17:58
AJAX :)
I keep grumping on meta about docs
almost makes me feel better
Computus (Latin for "computation") is the calculation used to determine the calendar date of Easter. Because the date is based on a calendar-dependent equinox rather than the astronomical one, there are differences between calculations done according to the Julian calendar and the modern Gregorian calendar. The name has been used for this procedure since the early Middle Ages, as it was considered the most important computation of the age. For most of its history Christians have calculated Easter independently of the Jewish calendar. In principle, Easter falls on the Sunday following the full moon...
@AnttiHaapala hmmm
@AnttiHaapala Computus should be the Borg name of Easeter
@poke, I'll upvote that and do think it is a great question but how to educate C# users....(one of the reasons I am not active in that tag)
18:02
@Andras Always trying to push your own agenda, huh? (against SOD) xD
Haha yeah I saw that
And upvoted the comment
@poke I hope you ask another meta question so that I can soapbox a bit more:D
@AndrasDeak I think that's the first good think I've heard coming from Documentation; it gets (some of) these people off of SO proper. Thanks; I needed that pickmeup. — Servy 2 mins ago
I love these guys
A community with only the funny/snarky meta guys would be nice
@poke true story
@Ffisegydd Nice one.
18:08
No worries :)
For anyone else that's confused:
If this doesn't get one or two real quick answers before being closed as a dupe then I'll be very disappointed meta.SO. — Ffisegydd 1 min ago
It would be really nice to have some generally accepted meta post that I can link to in comments to say “you, your answer, or your voting behavior sucks, and here’s why”
18:20
Proof that SOD is worthless?
from __future__ import print_function, unicode_literals, division

try:
    input = raw_input
    range = xrange
    import urlparse
except NameError:
    # no raw_input? Must be Python3, sweet!
    import urllib.parse as urlparse

parsed = urlparse('http://example.com')
print(parsed)
yes, import urlparse will throw an ImportError, no, this code will never reach that line
also, it's possible that urlparse raises for some other reason. Unlikely, but possible. I can't think of any reason that could create an erroneous NameError from input = raw_input
"contains factually incorrect information"
wow, that’s some bad reviewing.
that's the best one, though
At least they rejected it.
@WayneWerner meta time?
Speaking of SOD, I’m just reading that go-back-to-beta meta post, and stumbled upon this:
18:25
Meh, I gave it as much of a go as I cared to, lol
> **There's too much ownership and enthusiasm to lose**
>
> A ton of documentation has been written by many people, and in order to finish building this system, we need to hold their interest.
cbg all
"A ton of documentation has been written by many people, and in order to finish building this system, we need to hold their interest." Considering the quality of information, holding their interest sounds like a really bad idea. That is, if you're interested in making good documentation. "Too big to fail" is never a good mentality to have for a project. — Nicol Bolas 2 hours ago
3
^ An actual ton of content that is being used as docs is owned by others, and by accepting that copying behavior, they are effectively pissing off the original authors who did the real work.
hah, yeah
that too
> It is our top priority as a company to bring Documentation to a mature product
That’s their top priority? That’s just saddening.
I understand and accept Tim's point about it doing more harm than good in the end though.
But yeah, some parts of it (including that part :P) were saddening.
18:29
@poke That's because Microsoft paid for it
Shog's post is on +24/-25 in that thread.
I'll support SOD when I see a solid objective - projects with ill-defined scope fail
1

Stack Overflow Documentation (topic request)

How to use Stack Overflow Documentation
requested by Wayne Werner 17.2k
;)
wtf is this even?
I though that was something general
apparently it was Xamarin.IOS?
18:33
“It is our top priority as a company to bring Documentation to a mature product” – It’s sad that this is your top priority. There are so many things that would need some more priority on the Q/A part. Documentation, being somewhat pushed only by the company, with the community being very spectical about it from the very first day, seems like an odd candidate for the top priority, and it certainly isn’t when you ask the community. And speaking of mature products, what happened to teams? — poke 5 secs ago
Ooooooof.
granted I don't think it should go back to private....I also don't currently see how it can be saved cause I have no idea what it is
Cannonballs fired by my Right Honourable Friend there.
Nuked from orbit, I think.
haha :D
18:34
Oh wow... there are so many problems with this: stackoverflow.com/q/38575042/344286
It's like they were reading SOD ;)
@poke did you see rene's comment about SOCVFinder?
@JGreenwell agreed, going back to private is not an option. Only rm -rf will work… xD
the bot, queen, works great
she can post dupe notifications; and she can produce batches of questions with close votes with filters for tag/score/etc
I see the issue more with the voting behavior and the missing acceptance that closed means “I no longer need to look at this question”
I’m really good at finding duplicate targets I think :/
doing the needful;)
18:36
unfortunately, rm -rf is the answer I keep coming too - or the old adage: "know when to kill a project"
but whenever a "possible dupe" comment pops up under a post, queen can leave a message pinging you to hammer it quickly
but again: only cause I cannot get a straight answer on SOD
@WayneWerner is that Charlie Sheen's little brother?
another Estévez?
Could be?
@AndrasDeak I assume you were talking about imdb.com/name/nm0515296/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm ?
18:40
possible
Ok, I've got rabbit to a good enough state that I'm willing to publish it. Now for the hard part: figuring out the git command to get it onto github.com/sopython/rabbit
@WayneWerner does he even star in it?
@AndrasDeak Yeah he's the main character
@Kevin add a remote... and push...
18:42
@WayneWerner so why doesn't this page give hits for "office space"?:D
Oh...cause the title is in Hungarian
yamming stupid imdb localization
Lol. Ah.
I was going to post this screenshot
based on my yamming IP, mind you
I use everything in English...
yam them
@Kevin It even says so on that page!
18:46
Whoops I did git remote add origin https://github.com/sopython.rabbit.git and now it won't let me do git remote add origin https://github.com/sopython/rabbit.git
git remote set-url origin github.com/sopython/rabbit.git
Why is it called rabbit? Because it eats all of our cabbage?
It’s actually R.A.B.B.I.T
It should really be Cool and Awesome Troubleshooting.
18:50
Ok, I guess it's up now. Anyone that wants to play with it will need to change config.py so it has a valid email and password.
Was SNAKE out? (SNarky Automated Knowledge Engine)
Already got Tristan for that.
Well. Apart for the Automated part. And the Knowledge part.
And the Engine, I suppose.
@Ffisegydd I'm sure we can get a "toot toot, mother*ers" out of him
That code reminds me of the early experiments Jon did on chat.. :D
Yeah, anything related to autobahn was copy-pasted straight out of Jon's repository and then modified minimally to suit my purposes.
18:56
regarding Tim's Post:
> tl;dr: Docs would be an inferior product compared to what it could have been if we did this; it's much better to deal with some cleanup as needed.
so... who will do the cleanup as needed?
Probably the users who hate SOD in the first place, I bet
obviously
and that would be all of us for Python stuff

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