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6:00 PM
my my guys I feel so flattered!
 
See you, ...
You fill in the rest.
 
@Kevin Why not stack more lambda: (lambda L: L is L())(lambda: 1)
Or did it have to return "true"?
 
Yeah, we want it to evaluate to True or else the assertion crashes
 
@LocalD3Expert What's the simplest way to deal with labels that will overlap? Rotate them so they take less space or use two separate text fields to split the data? Essentially I have Name (date) and they will overlap on the x axis eventually...
 
user559633
Had to return True, that was the complicating factor, yeah
 
6:09 PM
@zondo I agree with your conclusion in this answer suggesting not to use == True but I believe the root cause is slightly different than what you say. If a in b == c was really equivalent to a in (b == c), I'd expect it to raise TypeError: argument of type 'bool' is not iterable rather than just evaluating to False.
I believe the true cause is comparison chaining. a in b == c is actually equivalent to (a in b) and (b == c)
 
I'll look into that. If I come to your conclusion, I'll edit my answer.
 
@Kevin Lol this is soooo ugly
 
I don't have to look very far when you give me the link ;) I'm about to edit.
 
@paul23 Yeah, it's kind of a weird corner case that in and == chain. The intended use of chaining is for the less-than/greater-than operators, so you can write a < b < c and have it evaluate the same way you'd expect it to in math class.
 
10 am stand-up....10:30 meeting...11 am grooming. 1PM product roadmap meeting.
it's a good thing I have all those meetings set up.
 
6:15 PM
@idjaw at least your project manages to get all those in one day. ;_;
 
@Kevin: Okay; it's edited.
 
@davidism How is yours spread out?
I feel like we have too many things going on. So hard to get back in to focus
=/
 
Daily scrum, then each sprint has one day for review and one day for planning. Full days.
 
oh yes....we have that too
that was just what happpend today
but our end of sprint friday is 1PM team demos, then retro. Monday planning
and typically wed we have a grooming
you hvae a full day of review?
that is intense
 
This seems relevant to the problem. I'm still trying to grok it myself though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_combinator
 
@QuestionC Yeah combinators are in general useful for having recursion when nothing has a permanent globally referenceable name, ex fib = (lambda f: lambda x: f(x,f))(lambda x,f: 1 if x < 2 else f(x-1,f) + f(x-2,f))
But making a function call itself and making a function return itself are slightly different, which is where the trouble begins
 
@idjaw He really hasn't discovered right-mouse-open-with?
 
poor windows
 
(lambda f: lambda: f(f))(lambda f: f) doesn't pass the assert test, for instance
 
Hmm in pycharm warnings are given by pycharm itself right? Not because of what python does?
 
6:31 PM
@paul23 Yeah, the linting warnings are (I believe) a version of flake8.
 
I think so. I recall seeing several questions along the lines of "why does this code produce warnings in Pycharm even though I can run it just fine?" which indicates to me that python.exe doesn't care about them.
 
oh wait, I notice it's a warning given by numpy.
if time is not None and self.__last_calculated_time == time: <- this line is generating a warning "FutureWarning: comparison to None will result in an elementwise object comparison in the future."
 
Yeah, that's not a PyCharm warning.
 
Incidentally I'm a little surprised that Run Python Script without PyCharm Opening [on hold] got closed. Does PyCharm not qualify as a tool primarly used for programming?
 
I voted to close because it's really a super user question.
 
6:32 PM
Well I guess it's too silly and has to do with how to open windows shell etc.
 
I'm guessing the actual reasoning is "this question has nothing to do with PyCharm specifically and has everything to do with default launchers for files of a particular extension, which is generic enough to be answered on super user"
But there's no close reasoning with that wording, so you went with the closest thing.
 
@Kevin Yup, exactly.
 
This is the weakness of SO though: the user has no idea that he has to use window's build in toolset to do this. And so he doesn't realise it should go to superuser. Meaning he won't get an answer. Yet the answer is so simple everyone could write it out.
 
Ok, I'll leave a comment clarifying the close votes. That ought to give OP enough guidance.
@paul23 Yeah, it's not always possible to tell whether a question is on-topic before you ask it.
There's no nice solution other than "don't take it personally when your question gets closed/migrated"
Ahh, the satisfaction of adding the tag to bad questions that only had a tag before, so they can attract more downvotes...
 
user559633
@idjaw agile is so lightweight
 
6:50 PM
Have we got a dupe target for "how do I scrape web pages that are populated dynamically by javascript?"? Seems like that gets asked every week.
Problem is, the answer is almost certainly "use this third party library", which is not as satisfying as we'd like it to be
 
@Kevin Is javascript more than "use this third party library"?
 
user559633
in pyyaml, is there a way to prevent a string literal from being converted to unicode when passed to a constructor?
 
Javascript is available on 99% of browsers that are preinstalled on 99% of consumer-grade computers, so it may be the least third-party-ish software in existence.
But I'm not sure I get your point.
 
For any non trivial task in javascript it seems people tell you "use a third party library".
 
user559633
 
6:56 PM
Ah yes, the jQuery phenomenon.
I was about to link it but tristan saved me the copy/paste :-)
 
Did this actually happen? My mind tells me no, but there seems like a possibility.....
 
Yeah, actually. This week I was looking up how to find the size of a hash in JS and the top voted answer used jQuery. I only barely suppressed my urge to scream.
 
@Programmer Nah nodejs is way to popular, someone would've noted that at least.
 
Incidentally, there's no nice way to find the size of a hash in JS.
Sure, you can do var x = 0; for(var y in my_hash){x+=1;} but that's dumb.
 
@Kevin That's close to how strlen works in C though.
 
6:59 PM
@Kevin Object.keys(my_hash).length?
 
Comparing js to C isn't doing either one any favors :-P
 
Iterate till exhaustion.
 
Maybe I haven't used jQuery enough, but I've only used it for some simple UI elements.
 
@Programmer but you have angularjs for that!
 
@davidism That seems verbose to me. (less verbose than the loop I just posted, but still). Maybe I'm just spoiled by len().
 
7:01 PM
@Kevin yeah, verbose but at least not a manual loop and counter
 
user559633
oh god what is happening
 
Python has set my standard for concision higher than is reasonable. I'm ruined for other languages.
 
Yeah, I constantly get annoyed that something really straightforward in Python is just completely missing from JS.
 
It's not my fault. I told them I'm no web dev...
 
The amount of "how do I do this simple thing" -> "complicated custom function because there's no built-in" answers is annoying.
 
user559633
7:03 PM
i use jquery because i can't be arsed to memorize the most portable way to do something for ie 9+->chrome whatever.x
 
@tristan the process is a lie. The best is when Team Management Awesome Sauce tries to shove process down the throats of a team where that process does not make sense. This is not my case for the record.
 
user559633
'If we call them "retros" and "standups" instead of "meetings", the developers will be too confused to catch on!' -- a thing that actually works, sadly
 
All of my js projects start out with half a dozen "convenience" functions, like map and filter functions that don't require me to type Array.prototype.whatever(thing) every time I want to use them
 
@tristan bring beer....they won't notice a thing.
 
user559633
7:07 PM
@davidism good lord.
 
@tristan I'm having a Sheldon imagination now.
 
user559633
a what?
 
user559633
 
I think he is referring to a show where a laugh track is invoked when someone mentions <insert_famous_science_individual_here>
 
Hey guys, I made a science|videogame|physics! Laugh Track
 
7:10 PM
You guys no fan of the big bang theory? such a shame
 
My parents got me a "Bazinga!" shirt. I do not wear the "Bazinga!" shirt.
 
user559633
i have two remaining will ferrell GIFs and i fear my head will explode if i do not use them
 
user559633
 
Why is it impossible to find a gif of Mark Jensen Family Christmas?
 
user559633
7:19 PM
 
@tristan I still need to see that.
 
Nothing was there; not even a star.
Nothing exploded, and here we are.
From the ants that you've squashed to the men you admire,
Everything's here because nothing caught fire.
 
@Kevin It seems like from the y f = f(y f) definition, if you pass the identity lambda to y, it returns a lambda that returns itself. So y I is a quine, but trying to evaluate it would recurse forever.
This jives with my googling "Lambda quine" which gives twitter.com/randompast/status/654486559639621632
Disclaimer: I have 0 academic experience with lambda calculus.
 
Same.
 
I'm kinda sad that the Will Ferrell gifisode has ended.
 
user559633
7:24 PM
I queued up a handful of them, predicting ones that would be logical in the conversation
 
Yeah I don't want that linked to my history
not even as a joke
 
Hi, can I ask a question about Whoosh module please?
 
user559633
@Ragnarok No, sorry.
 
So where can I ask it? I didn't find a "whoosh" chat room or anything like that
 
7:30 PM
You can, but only one, and you wasted it on a meta question about Whoosh rather than a question about it.
 
DSM
Sad, really.
Busy midafternoon cabbage for all.
 
@DSM Cabbage
 
@DSM hey!
 
DSM
Non-SO SE recommendation of the day: Worldbuilding is enormous fun. There are lots of super-smart people who know about all sorts of things.
 
7:32 PM
@davidism thanks
 
@Ragnarok the onus is not on us to find you somewhere to ask.
 
using Whoosh, I cant get the hits in the results object to add the "score" attribute.. all hits get score 1.0 - anyone know why It might happen?
 
Hmm what's the correct way for type hints to denote a functions that acts as a generator (using yield instead of return). -> typing.Generator[float]?
 
3 people thought that looked ok so it passed review.
 
Ok I tried to construct my problem "find a lambda expression L such that L is L()" using lambda calculus but it turns out that in lambda calculus there's no such thing as a function that takes zero arguments.
So... That's a problem.
I guess I could change it to "find a lambda expression L such that L is L(X) for any X"...
Not that lambda calculus has an is operator, though. And in fact I think I remember reading it would be impossible to construct one.
So... That, too, is a problem.
Now 50% of my question by volume is impossible.
 
7:56 PM
Undecidability of equivalence seems analagous to the halting problem. Just because you can't show two expressions are equivalent doesn't mean it's impossible for all expressions.

For example, lambda x: x is demonstrably equivalent to lambda y: y
 
Ok, I agree with you. I don't need a general equality prover, I only need to prove identity of two specific expressions.
In particular, I want to find the blank in the two expressions (lambda x: ???)(y) and (lambda x: ???) such that the first reduces to the second.
 
I'm feeling a bit dumb here...but I'm having a hard time following what you're trying to do, Kevin.
 
"lambda x: lambda x: lambda x: lambda x: (forever...)" would work if I had infinity hours to write the whole thing out.
 
I guess you can't actually reduce it which would be nice.
 
@idjaw I'm like five levels deep into an XY problem that started as "create an autovivified dictionary of theoretically infinite depth without using assignment or def"
So that ultimately you could do d = <???>; d[23][42]["foo"]["bar"] = "baz"
 
8:02 PM
that seems mentally painful. But very interesting.
 
@QuestionC It's quite neat but doesn't exactly meet my criteria
Calling (lambda x: x(x))(lambda x: x(x)) with y as an argument doesn't evaluate to (lambda x: x(x))(lambda x: x(x)).
It is gratifying to see an expression that expands out to an expression no smaller than the original one. That's a step in the right direction.
 
Are lambdas which infinitely recurse fair game, or do we need something that will actually run in Python?
 
Infinite recursion is fine, I think.
 
8:26 PM
Hmm, if Y is the Y combinator and I is the identity function, then YI == I(YI) == I(I(YI)) == (I(I(I(I(I(...(YI)...)))))
 
1 hour ago, by QuestionC
@Kevin It seems like from the y f = f(y f) definition, if you pass the identity lambda to y, it returns a lambda that returns itself. So y I is a quine, but trying to evaluate it would recurse forever.
 
DSM
I could try to figure out what everyone's talking about our I could just order a sub. That sounds like a better plan.
 
@QuestionC Ok, good, I'm catching up to you then :-P
 
We're trying to learn lambda calculus from its wikipedia entry.
 
DSM
Wow, "our" for "or". Thank you, cellphone!
 
8:28 PM
But I want YIX to evaluate to YI, which won't happen if we're forever expanding YI
 
DSM
Why is it when we're talking silliness I'm busy, but when I have free time we're thinking about things?
 
You put an attitude of seriousness into the room.
You have that much influence.
 
@DSM I just chalked it up to the tendency of U's to sneak into non-US speech.
color : colour :: or : our
But you didn't ourder a sub, so the sentence is inconsistent.
 
user559633
...hodor: hodour
 
So it was translating from English to Canadian?
 
8:32 PM
@Programmer Nah, eh. Not polite enough, eh.
 
Canada way is the right way.
 
@idjaw You can't understand a thing they're talking aboot.
 
user559633
@zondo Something tells me idjaw can.
 
He knows his alphabet from A to Zed.
 
user559633
8:37 PM
*Aye buddy to zed
 
@MorganThrapp Do I look like some sort of hose-head?
 
@tristan I'm not your buddy, guy.
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp Oh. Because I considered us buddies. That's disappointing.
 
There was a very strange webcomic about a fictional Canadian royal family that would, on each member's thirteenth birthday, don traditional stillsuit-esque clothing that they would never take off for the rest of their lives.
Abdicating and removing the suit requires fairly invasive surgery but reintegration into normal society is usually successful for the most part.
 
@tristan I, uh, well.
 
8:40 PM
Awkward.
 
@tristan I love you?
 
Nice save. Strong. Straight for the L word.
 
@Ffisegydd I always thought The L Word was gay.
 
I didn't even know it was a show.
 
"Lesbians" is gay by definition. All other L words must be judged based on context.
 
user559633
8:43 PM
 
Ok the problem with the Y combinator is that (lambda X: Y(I))(arbitrary_value) evaluates to Y(I), not (lambda X: Y(I))
 
No the problem with Y Combinator is the users.
 
Wrapping a quine-y expression in another expression usually makes it less quiney.
 
I was expecting a "Did we just become best friends?" gif.
 
8:46 PM
All of you have a level of Kevin's Provisional Chum or higher.
 
user559633
 
DSM
And, right on time, I'm back in the office needing to do number crunching and we're back to nonsense.
 
It goes on, and on, and on.
 
user559633
 
On the infinite x,y scale of fondness vs respect you're all definitely somewhere.
 
8:48 PM
 
Fizzy I can't seem to find myself on your d3 chart T_T
 
/r/shittytumblrgifs
 
@Programmer just keep on scrolling down, you're there eventually.
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp these have all been high quality
 
user559633
sir i will BAN you. 10x. then call your ISP and tell AOL that u're not interested anymore
 
8:50 PM
Nah, the last one I linked.
 
Ouch, right in the feels.
 
He's only saying "Scien".
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd when you add someone, do you think "well, i have a new fond/respect for you?"
 
Everyone who ever existed or ever will exist is already on there.
 
That's a d3 bulitin
 
8:56 PM
I wouldn't call this serious. It's like kids who don't know limits trying to understand infinity. Anyhow, I think I got it.
 
cbg
 
k1 = (L x: x x)(L x: L g: x x) =
k2 = (L x: L g: x x)(L x: L g: x x) =
k3 = (L g: (L x: L g: x x)(L x: L g: x x) =
k4 = (L g: k2)

k4(y) = k2 for all y.  k4 = k2.
 
Ooh, very interesting.
>>> f = (lambda x: x(x))(lambda x: lambda g: x(x))
>>> f(23)
<function <lambda> at 0x0000000002C7AD68>
>>> f(23)(23)
<function <lambda> at 0x0000000002C7AEB8>
>>> f(23)(23)(23)
<function <lambda> at 0x0000000002C7AD68>
>>> f(23)(23)(23)(23)
<function <lambda> at 0x0000000002C7AF28>
They're not referentially equal but that's not something I'm concerned with.
The desirable property is that you can chain arbitrary calls on them forever, which it appears to be what's happening here
 
I noticed that too, but it doesn't really say much besides the fact that it isn't infinitely recursing and the output will always produce the same 'kind' of lambda.
 
Hmm, I was hoping it would be easy to make a conceptual leap from "write a function that returns itself when called" to "write a function that returns defaultdict(itself) when called" but it looks nontrivial.
 
9:11 PM
THIS WAS AN XY PROBLEM?
5
 
You can easily get to "write a function that returns itself when called with zero arguments" with f = (lambda x: x(x))(lambda x: lambda: x(x))
 
@QuestionC XD
 
@QuestionC he's actually trying to get his MtG Tkinter app to work.
 
@QuestionC Yes and no. While ultimately I did have a practical application in the back of my mind, the abstract sub-problem is interesting enough in its own right.
 
Perhaps KS should get rid of these stuff. :/
 
9:14 PM
Have objects with names exactly 7 letters long always be equal, no matter what.
 
I've been staring at that 'proof' for 10 minutes straight and I just now noticed the missing paren in k3.
 
user559633
9:46 PM
@Ffisegydd "Businesses have been run well without MBAs for millennia. The merchants of Carthage did not need them. Kanye West does not have one" wut
 
What's mba?
 
Dude, come on. Google.
It really is your friend.
 
user559633
mean beer appreciation. it's how much, on average, a group can appreciate a beer
 
Well question should be: how is it different from a master in science in management?
 
the name, to start
@tristan you should really switch to median beer appreciation
 
9:53 PM
It's like the big mac index for hipsters.
 
I thought it was Macbook Air.
 
Wikipedia is as usual writting utter rubbish about this topic lol.
 
user559633
10:13 PM
@davidism well, that's what i get for going to a liberal arts college through the mail
 
10:28 PM
Rhubarb
 
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