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15:00
@JohnZwinck They believe so many things though.
@davidism since the size of each element and length of them is unknown when using a generator, building a list actually enables str.join to computer space up front, then work more efficiently
@Kevin very creepy... ethereum i think is the creepiest thing since donkey porn. computers making organizational decisions?????
You know, I rarely find myself using join on non-string-lists anyway. If I want to print a comma-delimited list of nonstring items, I just do print my_list and it works well enough.
DSM
DSM
I wish no one had ever noticed that joining a list was faster. It's the sort of thing which in every other context we don't care about.
They don't understand boolean logic and use if answer == 'y' or 'Y' or 'Yes' or 'YES':.
15:00
makes sense
@davidism behind the scenes, str.join builds a list anyway
# Python 3.4
In [11]: a = list(range(100000))

In [12]: %timeit ' '.join(str(i) for i in a)
10 loops, best of 3: 57 ms per loop

In [13]: %timeit ' '.join([str(i) for i in a])
10 loops, best of 3: 47.2 ms per loop
So if you provide it with a list, it doesn't have to materialise the generator itself
ooo iPython...
@Kevin: sure, but what if you want to name a file after all the elements of a list, with underscores? this happens more often than I would like to admit, at least with people I work with
you can't easily use print for that (StringIO, ugh)
Yes the whole "use map for better performance than imap" is a bit of a shocker
an alternative would be for str.join(), when it gets a generator, to just realloc as it goes along
like allocate 2x the size of the first element at first, then bump up by 2x every time it runs out of space
DSM
DSM
15:03
Huh. I wasn't expecting this:
#python 3.4
In [7]: a = list(range(100000))

In [8]: %timeit ' '.join([str(x) for x in a])
100 loops, best of 3: 17.8 ms per loop

In [9]: %timeit ' '.join(str(i) for i in a)
100 loops, best of 3: 19.2 ms per loop

In [10]: %timeit ' '.join(map(str, a))
100 loops, best of 3: 13.5 ms per loop

In [11]: %timeit ' '.join(list(map(str, a)))
100 loops, best of 3: 13.7 ms per loop
this way, one pass, and reduced peak memory usage by 50% I think
@JohnZwinck that's not exactly efficient use of requesting resources though
You know what? Despite the fact that it's technically faster, I'm going to keep using generators. Take that, timeit!
I like how it looks, and that counts for a lot in python.
@JonClements: really? it's efficient in big-O, and it reduces peak memory usage
memory allocations and calls to the OS if needed are expensive and risky
A single alloc is much more efficient than multiple reallocs
15:05
hello segmentation faults!
@davidism I know what you mean. If I wanted to sacrifice readability for speed, I wouldn't be working in Python anyway.
well of course not every allocation needs to be a system call....
cabbage
@JohnZwinck well yes, the interpreter does allocate some memory, and then allocate inside that, for re-use etc...
@coltonoscopy cbg
15:06
There are probably more pressing optimization concerns in your program than "use a list in str.join" or "don't want to explicitly coerce to str".
@DSM: I got similar results with Python 3.3 on OS X. I did learn that your computer is 3x faster than mine though :)
@JohnZwinck it's just much more efficient to find a block of memory (be it internally allocated or OS allocated) to match the size of the result, then keep re-allocating - finding out you can't contigiously store it one place, then having to find another place, memcpy'ing, deallocating the previous block etc... etc...
something funny is that if join() did accept a list of non-str, it would be in a better situation to optimize itself
because it would know the length of the list, and could make a guess as to the length of the result
@John no, because it's doesn't know what __str__ would return from any object
it'd be an educated guess. do str() on the first element or two, then multiply that by the number of elements
15:09
while if isinstance(some_obj, str) is true, then it's done
@DSM That looks correct; str.join() will have to construct a list if not handed one, to be able to produce the total length of the string.
You could always subclass str and write your own join method!
haha, no :)
As a list comp produces a list there and then, a more efficient method of list building can be used.
But map() can use a more efficient C loop than a list comp / generator expression can use, as that's a Python code loop.
this client has spent 5 weeks with a graphic designer to make a single logo.
15:12
all right everybody, thanks for the enthusiastic discussion, I'm off to bed but feel free to continue :) I accepted the one answer posted so far which I felt was pretty good
By that time, adding in a Python list() call requires falling back to Python calls and that's then slower than the entirely-in-C list() call the str.join() performs.
DSM
DSM
@MartijnPieters: no, what was surprising me was how much faster map still was. (That is, the scale, not the existence.)
@JohnZwinck it's certainly an interesting discussion - feel free to pop by the room whenever - you're always welcome
better not come too often, I'll have to get a half-day job like Martijn has ;-)
@JohnZwinck For future discussions like these, it is probably better to hold those in the chat room here, or as a post to the Python ideas list.
I have 3 day jobs and SO answering. Sorta.
15:13
Martijn: maybe. but I didn't know it would generate so many comments when I posted it!
DSM
DSM
python-ideas can be pretty rough sometimes, though, or at least it can feel that way when people point out the billion things wrong with your suggestion..
it's ok, if the Python people say I'm wrong I will just remind them that f(x=[]) doesn't do what people expect!
'night
DSM
DSM
Rhubarb!
@Martijn it's weird the implication that when one's on SO, one only has a half-day job :)
DSM
DSM
15:23
People seem to get the impression that lambda makes a certain special kind of object, instead of just being (like def) another way to build a function.
@Ffisegydd: oh, come on. You even stole my exact example (>>> A = np.arange(25).reshape((5,5)), copied right from my terminal.)
mwhahahaha.
5001 rep.
waits for the inevitable downvote
DSM
DSM
Congratulations! Do you get new powers at 5k?
Only Tag Wiki stuff
lambda objects are special, because all objects are special in their own way.
4
Mr Rogers taught me that.
@Ffisegydd nice job!
I think I'll make it by the end of the month.
15:30
Thanks :) Race to 10k? :P
Need to pick some more tags besides Flask and SQLAlchemy to work in.
I'm gonna slow it down a bit now, my spurt of activity is over.
I also got my matplotlib bronze today which made me happy.
DSM
DSM
@davidism: come to julia-lang, the water's fine.
I've been tempted to pick up either Julia or R
DSM
DSM
R is probably more useful, but Julia more fun.
15:32
At the same time I feel guilty for not spending the time honing the more advanced Python skills.
DSM
DSM
Like what? Obscure stdlib corners or metaclass trickery or something?
@JonClements No, I was stating that a disproportionate amount of my paying work had to do with Unicode problems, actually. :-)
buh. Why is client so obsessed with ads? Isn't putting ads on a page like, the easiest thing to do?
user559633
@corvid elaborate
user559633
ads + tracking + bidding can be non-trivial
@tristan But you are doing it wrong.
Now everyone with the plugin will have a big red counter showing there are posts to be closed they haven't looked at yet.
user559633
@MartijnPieters am i supposed to tag it? i though flagging was fine
The plugin may even have given an audio signal.
@tristan tagging integrates with the tool.
user559633
o...kay. so tag the posts too with [cs-pls]
No, put the tag in chat.
Not on the post. :-)
user559633
15:49
okay then :)
sorry, I didn't mean to imply the post needed actual tagging. :-)
user559633
It's all good. :)
We use the [tag:cv-pls] syntax in the chatroom only.
what does cv-pls mean?
I tried to put a unicode character in the tag yesterday, it didn't work. :(
user559633
15:50
closevote please
@DSM More advanced numpy/matplotlib wizardry mainly.
[tag:something] produces tag-like markup. for example.
ahh thanks @tristan @davidism
user559633
should be though :)
Go battle that out with the PHP room, they started it.
Good luck. If you survive, kudos!
user559633
15:52
I'd totally expect those kids with chainsaws to be all over the -plz
There is also .
user559633
but it's PHP, so it would be and
DSM
DSM
delv?
user559633
because they love a set of tools that have quirks
No, it should be [tag:hello, I hope the day finds you well. You may be wondering why I'm posting. Well, to make a long story short, I'd like to see this post closed, and I could really use some votes! kind regards and warm wishes.]
user559633
15:53
delete vote
Use that for posts that have been closed but are really stinking up the place and are better of just being deleted faster than the auto-delete script can get to them.
DSM
DSM
Ah
@davidism, @Ffisegydd: is it an idea to write a page about that on sopython? Pointing to the tool, explaining how [tag:cv-pls] and [tag:delv-pls] work and what to use them for?
is not volunteering to write that page, of course.
Could put a wiki page together for it.
I'll add it to Trello.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear, too many low quality posts coming in that are crying out for the old 'minimal understanding' close reason.
is feeling cranky.
15:59
Yeah, that minimal understanding thing really sucks. :/
Just do "voted as unclear, because it's unclear how you could have so little understanding on the topic" ;-)
Haha, that's harsh!
What do you do when the person just doesn't try?
user559633
downvote and/or direct to chat for trolling
16:01
Direct copy-pastes of assignments get "unclear" since we don't simply write code for people, so it's unclear what the OP wants
Sounds like a good plan.
Hmmm, do you think the current youth are better at Googling?
Hey guys, could anyone familiar with Robot framework or Selenium please have a look at this question: stackoverflow.com/questions/25143073/…
Finished proofreading our first-year PhD student's end of year report and I only had to hit her twice.
It hasn't received a lot of attention unfortunately :(
@tristan google ads
user559633
16:03
@corvid so just drop the JS in a "google ad" div and be done with it
user559633
best way to get someone off your back about something is to just get it over with
@Stormie Sorry, but I don't have much experience with... any of those frameworks/browsers.
but she's asking for this stuff, and she doesn't even have a site yet :| the designer has barely made any front end and there's zero articles
Thank you for looking @Zhouster :)
user559633
are you getting paid for this?
user559633
16:04
just be like "i can't put on ads until other stuff is done
user559633
and or spam filter
@Stormie I guess Opera 15 and up are still too recent to have Selenium drivers.
student internship at my school. She's asking too much for people who are only here for 5 weeks. "Make me facebook"
@MartijnPieters Sad times. I guess I'll just delete the question
and the market share is rather low.
Opera is < 1.5%.
DSM
DSM
16:08
I'd actually forgotten Opera existed until a few days ago when I was looking at a compatibility chart and realized what the O stood for.
@corvid then you schedule a time with the client to sit down and figure out, together, what is realistic in 5 weeks
@Stormie I wouldn't delete the question. Always remain hopeful!
user559633
oh yeah, opera. I completely forgot about that browser as well. I really think that Opera compat is only necessary because other webdevs check against Opera.
I was thinking more about Safari, but even then.. For the product I'm testing I would genuinely be surprised if anything other than IE8 was used by our customers.
@davidism main problem is that she's not technical at all. She didn't know what a database was.
16:09
@corvid that's why you need to schedule a time to just talk through the points
@DSM And with the switch to the Chrome engine that compatibility column can be phased out too.
@corvid How did she get there?
user559633
@Zhouster "student internship at my school."
does she need to know what a database is? I don't think so, but it is reasonable for you to say, "that will require too much work in the time we have"
@tristan That sounds like a co-op. As in, for students, or held by students?
16:10
@MartijnPieters I don't suppose you could explain why the Chrome driver doesn't work for Opera? I tried it out and it had a hissy and threw errors at me.. But surely if they're the same engine it should work?
because chrome isn't opera
I don't think she understands why things are hard because she doesn't seem to understand the abstractions of it. She's caught up in what's in front of her and not what's in the background
they both run on webkit, but that's irrelevant to how the driver interacts with the application
@Stormie Sorry, not really a selenium expert here.
user559633
@Zhouster the point being that it's not uncommon for wholly unqualified people to be in charge of departments in academia
16:11
Ah, thanks :)
I have generally left front-end testing to others.
hmmmm... does anyone know why this doesn't omit the sublime file?... `obimod@8675309 ~/Repos/today: touch sublime
obimod@8675309 ~/Repos/today: ls | ggrep -P '^(?<!sublime).*$'
fewafw
sublime`
@MartijnPieters It's fine, thanks for trying :)
@Zhouster basically, it is a class that counts for credit, where you work for money.
@Stormie I guess it is not that simple; rendering != navigating from page to page, perhaps.
16:12
Cabbage
@corvid a backlog of things to work on is always good but you need to establish a list of priorities with the client based on a realistic timeline
@MartijnPieters Oh well, maybe the guys at Selenium will add another browser to their repotoire someday. Thanks for the help guys :)
you should say "yes, I can do that, I will add it to the list after what we've already discussed" but not "yes, I will do that now"
@corvid Holy, that sounds like a super positive. Both credits and money? o,O But it accepts anyone?
yeah, but any time I say anything it doesn't seem to get through to her. I made a trello board and everything, and when I started she's like "we should make ads" and "can we add cool 3D models on this site?" (that was legitimately a suggestion)
@Zhouster nah, it's somewhat competitive, other students apply for it as well, and it only accepts one computer science student per semester
16:15
@corvid Might be time to sit down and talk to her one on one. Dissect her and figure out how she takes in information/thoughts/anything really. That is... at least what I think would help?
user559633
What's funny about her "let's do ads" is that it's probably against academic policy as it could land the uni in hot water
what do you mean, Tristan?
user559633
The university likely has policies surrounding faculty using resources for personal gain and/or fund-raising.
Well it's not for the school, it's her own website
But isn't she getting you for free?
user559633
16:31
@corvid yeah that's far worse.
the site isn't the resource, you are :-)
$99 a month for all the interns to help her
user559633
if she's using a school resource (e.g. you are getting paid for that time by the university) for her own personal page (not solely to represent the university), that's pretty actionable
really? Hrmph I just make the website I don't think about it
user559633
Is it like her own site or is it her site for the university? e.g. school.edu/faculty/susan or mycoolwebpage.net
16:36
she's making a news site for some specific target audience
user559633
is it for her personal profit?
Wait, so how is the intern? Is she the customer?
user559633
Corvid is the intern.
user559633
My understanding is that he landed a student-internship and his client/boss is having him code a personal side-business/project for her (not school affiliated).
16:41
that is correct, yeah. It's just kind of weird, I'm used to people having a good idea of what they want and giving me a spec, then working on it incrementally. She just said a reeeeally general idea which she constantly changes
    input_dir = os.listdir(sys.argv[1])

    for root, dirs, files in os.walk(input_dir):
        for f in files:
            if f.endswith(".txt"):
                print os.path.join(root, file)
OH! I thought SHE (whoever she is) was the intern, and somehow got hired despite being quite unqualified.
Welp, seems like you could go wild with that then, right? :D
any ideas why I'm getting the error posted above?
@Daи I feel like you should probably use splitext instead of endswith
@corvid ok, but it is failing before that point
DSM
DSM
16:44
os.listdir returns a list. os.walk expects a path as its first argument.
Also, although this isn't the issue: you do for f in files: but pass file, not f, to os.path.join.
@corvid Talk to your academic advisor about this. Tell them that the faculty member they have assigned you to is not being cooperative and you don't feel you are being treated properly. They may be able to help you communicate with the client, reassign you, or explain what you should expect.
@DSM arg... good catch
user559633
@corvid that is because she has no idea what she's doing and she's stealing from the university
@DSM ahh, ok, so pass sys.argv[1] directly to it
so now I have:
    for root, dirs, files in os.walk(sys.argv[1]):
        for f in files:
            if f.endswith(".txt"):
                print os.path.join(root, f)
DSM
DSM
That should work, I think.
16:47
@DSM ok yes, I just needed to make txt TXT, apparently case sensitive
any more efficient way of doing if f.endswith(".txt") or f.endswith(".TXT"):
?
@corvid you mentioned splitext
@tristan not really. If she doesn't give a clear idea, I don't do it. If she constantly wavers, I'll stop doing it. Other clients have much better specifications
@corvid is she actually doing anything against the rules? Is she allowed to work on her own site as she is paying for it?
meh, I couldn't care less about rules. It's a business class about small businesses and start ups, I'm basically just a flexible contractor who helps people.
@corvid We are really not the right people to ask about this. At this point, we're just talking in circles. The appropriate action is to talk to your academic advisor.
@Daи You might do, if f.lower().endswith(".txt")
16:51
@Kevin aha, that's how to do it, I was trying to put`.lower()` after ("txt") which wasn't working
welcome back @Daniel
DSM
DSM
Cabbage to the crazy-high-rep Python coder who isn't Martijn!
@DSM apparently Daniel only discovered this room today
So, currently present are the #1 all time Python answerer and #1 all time Django answerer... I'll just go sit in the corner as I'm obviously not needed :)
DSM
DSM
That may account for some of his productivity. I remember being more productive before I found this place. Or was it before I spent my days writing in Java? One of those, anyway.
16:55
Don't forget the #1 answerer B-)
surely we all have things to contribute to the site...
(that's me. Never mind that no one has ever asked a question about KevinScript, but I would totally hypothetically be able to answer it if they did.)
(so I guess technically I'm tied for #1 with all other users. Fine with me.)
anyway I am supposed to be cooking a chicken, so may not be fully engaged at the moment
This question has me wondering. If you have a generator function that eventually returns something, is there any way for the caller to access that returned value?
Eh, my Django Javascript jsi18n translations do not work :<
16:59
Something like
def frob():
    for i in range(10):
        yield i
    return "Hello"

x = frob()
for item in x: pass
print x.returned_value
#prints "Hello"
DSM
DSM
@Kevin: but there could be multiple return paths.
Yeah, so it would be necessary to wait until the generator is exhausted to check for the return value.
I have django.catalog with translations under domain.com/jsi18n/ dpaste.com/098Y1PY but it does not work. I do everything according to the documentation.
Does anyone know what could be wrong?
You appear to be missing some closing parentheses
namely, the ones matching the ( and { on the line (function (globals){
@Kevin: Sorry, I pasted only part of code ;)
17:04
I thought that might be the case, but I might as well mention it
I use this in this way: dpaste.com/3DYB3VB in my .js file
gettext_noop
What did you say the problem was? Is it crashing?
@Kevin No, just displaying untranslated string
Of course I ran makemassage/compilemessage.
I would expect it to do that if you were calling gettext_noop, since that just returns the string unmodified. If it also does it when you call gettext, that's more surprising.
DSM
DSM
Time for midday snacks! rhubarb for now
17:10
The same with ' + gettext('Ulica') + '
I don't see any apparent logic errors.
Maybe something is happening to django.catalog before gettext executes, so that it no longer contains the entries you defined.
@Jon I've hit 5k. And now I finally get to post the video with a genuine reason...
@Ffisegydd I never intended to win... :)
@Kevin I tried to create a generator with a return statement, it gave a syntax error.
In [1]: def next_five(start):
   ...:     for i in range(start, start + 5):
   ...:         yield i
   ...:     return start >= 5
   ...:
  File "<ipython-input-1-7683135e511c>", line 4
    return start >= 5
SyntaxError: 'return' with argument inside generator
@Ffisegydd this was the Vetinari approach Mr Vimes... woof woof bloody woof
17:13
Is that 3.X? I wonder if that happens in all versions.
That was 2.7
Works in 3.4
back soon
So they made it legal in 3.X. Mega weird.
But it doesn't ever get to the return.
17:15
In [1]: def next_five(start):
   ...:     yield from range(start, start + 5)
   ...:     return start >= 5
   ...:

In [2]: list(next_five(1))
Out[2]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

In [3]: list(next_five(5))
Out[3]: [5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
That's 3.4
Now to figure out why they changed the behavior.
We need a batphone for GvR
I'm guessing "because it doesn't matter much if we let the user return whatever they want" and "the old SyntaxError may have caught some programmers' logic errors, but not enough to justify maintaining the code required to detect them"
what kind of interface is most intuitive for changing user permissions? Purely from an aesthetic standpoint
What kind of permissions?
17:20
Big ol' table of checkboxes
Are you talking about Groups that you can only belong to one at a time?
Cos then I'd say a drop down list
If so, big ol' table of radio buttons
Or if it's lots of individual permissions then see Kevin's answer.
@Ffisegydd the ticket I'm assigned on sopy, user can belong to multiple. List the groups, then have a modal with checkbox?
Checkboxes FTW.
17:21
@corvid what groups were you thinking of?
Aha, return something puts something as the message to StopIteration:
there's approved and... not approved, I suppose, but will there possibly be more groups in the future? Because I am accounting for that
In [4]: def up_to_5(start):
   ...:     for i in range(start, start + 3):
   ...:         if i >= 5:
   ...:             return i
   ...:         yield i
   ...:     return start >= 5
   ...:

In [5]: list(up_to_5(0))
Out[5]: [0, 1, 2]

In [6]: list(up_to_5(3))
Out[6]: [3, 4]

In [7]: g = up_to_5(3)

In [8]: next(g)
Out[8]: 3

In [9]: next(g)
Out[9]: 4

In [10]: next(g)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
StopIteration                             Traceback (most recent call last)
@Ffisegydd @davidism what do you guys imagine the groups being?
@davidism Nice find :-) My curiosity is satisfied.
17:23
there will be more groups in the future, probably related to admin level vs. add/edit level privilege
I'm kinda curious -- what's the benefits of groups over just having plain roles?
they are plain roles
a group is just a role? As in, edit is a group? I always thought of a group as a collection of roles, like admin can edit, delete, update or whatever
you're thinking of privileges, which are too fine-grained for what we need
oh okay, so if it was to expand, what would the groups be like? What would the differences between them be?
17:31
a user would have multiple roles, and privileges could be assigned to roles or directly to users, a user would have the privileges of it's roles plus it's direct ones
instead of asking if a user had a role, you would ask if the user had the edit privilege, or even the edit privilege for that specific object
I've implemented this for other projects, but it's just too much work for what we need.
would it be purely hierarchical? As in, admin is a super set of privileges from user, and user is a super set of anonymous user?
No, and implementing roles-of-roles is even more complicated to do in a way that's efficient to query
And you want to be efficient to query since most pages will be asking about privileges
I heard you like roles. So I gave your roles roles so you can role while you role.
I implemented this system where users were just roles, all roles had a list of parent roles, every role could have privileges, and I made it "flat" so that you could perform a simple query to check if a user had a privilege, but the logic for adding and removing roles a privileges was incredibly complicated.
My senior design project had a fancy role based permission system, as I recall. We didn't have a hierarchy, though.
17:36
I just scraped it in the end, it wasn't worth the effort.
Just a simple table mapping the role name to a bunch of boolean create/read/update/delete permission fields
Eventually we plan to have Users (not Anon though) be able to suggest canon questions etc
But for the moment I don't think Users are really used.
Only people in the approved group.
oh okay. I'm used to seeing patterns like this:
Well, anyone can log in and create a User, but they can't do anything. Just like the old site.
@bp.before_request
def authorize():
    if not current_user.can('edit'):
        abort(401)
17:38
Yeah that's what I meant. We don't actually do with them.
They are effectively Anon for the moment
also, flask-principal is annoying, way to much circuitous logic just to check privileges, espcially if you want to store that stuff in the database. It also has no lazy way to look up, everything needs to be loaded up front every request.
oh I use flask-bouncer, usually. Mostly because I knew the guy who made it
there was some sort of talk about how people solved problems in flask, and someone presented flask-bouncer. Looked pretty cool, been using it a bit
Also I'm pretty terrible with sqlalchemy. Should really get better...
17:52
Is Bottle used at all in comparison to Flask? I rarely hear of it.
What do you think about Pyramid framework?
I've only heard of that in passing. :X
I think bottle lost the popularity contest, but I'm sure it's still used. Pyramid is a pretty good framework from what I hear, strikes a balance between flask and django
I quite like Pyramid
I use to use Pylons
I asked that because I'm using Bottle (was the framework used beforehand), but I see Flask all the time.
I guess I'll check out Pyramid.
18:00
Pyramid is more flexible than Django
cabbage folks
@Zhouster Pyramid has a much larger learning curve than either Flask/Django
does anyone have any experiences with GoDaddy and Email-forwarding?
(and maybe connecting that forwarded address to an existing gmail one?)
:)
@JonClements Dang, I guess I'll keep that in mind before I dive in.
@PeterVaro nope... my domains are registered with godaddy.. but use gmail business accounts to handle email
18:06
there is actually one thing I don't understand
gmail asks me about my smtp login user-name and password -- however 1) it wasn't necessary before (there were an option for "do mailing through gmail" or something like that) 2) as it is a forward only email godaddy does not provide any user/pass
and there is no button or panel to add such thing an address
@PeterVaro gmail allows a "send as"
after you have successfully added the mail address
but you have to have verified the other address to do so
I have 12 addresses set up already
but the option I'm looking for is just gone
sopython.com email's are handled by google
18:10
(my last set up was a year ago)
sketchandprototype.com address too
I could have set up an email server on it, but email's a tricky bugger what with spam, attacks, black lists etc... so I thought it'd be better to just pay google a small fee and let them deal with it
makes sense, yeah
For just over £3 a month, you get drive space, calendars, email etc.. etc...
plus a very large company that's definitely going to be able to cope with delivering your emails if your private server is attacked or otherwise offline
that's all okay and true -- but where is my smtp user/pass? or why google requires it for a forwarding? ;)
@Peter how could it forward on your behalf to your mail server, if it can't connect to it on your behalf to do so?~
18:17
I don't know?
:D
oucherz - this vegetable curry is somewhat strong
user559633
pour whisky into it to show it who's boss
need milk, brb
that's better
rep is like crack o-o
stupid me... clicked the "phal" option
I might have some mouth and throat lining left...
18:26
Don't worry, I expect it will grow back
Try not to eat for the next few weeks while you recover
Well, the way my stomach feels, there's a possibility this is coming back up
And if you must breathe, use warm salt water instead of atmospheric gas. Much more soothing.
done for the day, bbias
the 15 seconds walk back to home - so tiring - think I deserve a beer
user559633
yes @JonClements. get a beer.
@JonClements: What kind of beer?
18:37
I've got a bottle of Cobra.
user559633
get a dark, fat stout.
user559633
what is Cobra @Ffisegydd
I've only got 1664 left... but one of my favs, so
polish beer are great
user559633
18:41
polish beers have the best labels
always nice when people do this
@JonClements this is impossible.. there is no such option to add a password -- or get the recent one if any -- or to generate a default one
I can't believe this..
one sec I try to chat with them..
user559633
hey, this is a pretty great talk, so I want to share. if you get bored, have a listen: youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI

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