« first day (3152 days earlier)      last day (1805 days later) » 

8:00 PM
Alright, who cast the delete-vote on that? and why should it be deleted?
 
@Code-Apprentice Point at the scapegoat, then draw your thumb across your neck and make a "krrrrrk" sound
 
@Code-Apprentice Fist-bump with thumbs pointing down
 
Does anyone here use Ubuntu? I'm trying to install scrapy but I get "Segmentation fault" error...
 
wim
get 2 more deletes and you'll see in the timeline!
 
@X4748 how are you trying to install it?
 
8:01 PM
@cs95 I don't really know what you all mean, can one of you give me a tl;dr on "When is it permissible to merge an old/closed/duplicate asking into a newer one, and when is it not?" even just from the Python/pandas point-of-view, when language/version/performance changes invalidate old answers.
@wim Ho ho ho...
 
@AndrasDeak pip3 install scrapy
 
Although, in Roman times, thumbs down actually actually was a good thing for those facing execution since it signaled that the weapons should be lowered and the person spared. Time travelers might have some issues there
 
@X4748 and you get a segfault of all things?
 
I tried this too:

sudo apt-get remove --purge python-dev python-pip libxml2-dev libxslt1-dev zlib1g-dev libffi-dev libssl-dev
```
sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get install python-dev python-pip libxml2-dev libxslt1-dev zlib1g-dev libffi-dev libssl-dev
```
 
I'd expect privilege problems when it tries to install into /usr without sudo
 
8:02 PM
@Kevin Except that Community Wiki is generally considered to be deprecated. CW answers are almost as bad as answers in comments, since you don't lose rep when a CW answer is downvoted.
 
@X4748 uh, why?
 
did the segfault appear before you messing with the system packages? :P
 
@smci it is permissible when the newer answer is objectively better, has better/more options, and there isn't a conflict of interest from the person actually proposing the merger/closure
 
@X4748 So...it's not the install that's throwing a segfault but running scrapy instead?
 
8:03 PM
@PM2Ring Right. But again this 'emerging community consensus' is not documented anywhere for people like me. And in fact some users will argue with it anyway. Sigh.
 
that's two very different things
 
note I responded to your comment without looking into the context behind it
 
@cs95 Yeah, but "objectively better" is a can of worms, even just in Python. Are iterators or iterator expressions always better than for-loops? What if they're nested/chained five-deep? Does performance and scaleability matter? only if the big-O is worse than O(N2)? When do we take tradeoffs of legibility vs performance? etc. etc.
 
Look, all I did is:

pip3 install scrapy

and I got:
Collecting pycparser (from cffi!=1.11.3,>=1.8->cryptography->service-identity->scrapy)
Installing collected packages: pycparser, cffi, six, asn1crypto, cryptography, pyasn1, pyasn1-modules, attrs, service-identity, w3lib, cssselect, lxml, parsel, PyDispatcher, constantly, setuptools, PyHamcrest, idna, hyperlink, Automat, zope.interface, incremental, Twisted, queuelib, pyOpenSSL, scrapy
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

and when I try to import scrapy I says:
 
@X4748 OK, so what you initially said is true, and the linked github issue is irrelevant
 
8:05 PM
oh im blind
 
> it seems to install without errors, but it cannot be started just ends in a segmentation fault.
 
an answer would be objectively better if it is updated to the most recent version (while the existing ones do not apply), OR if it corrects bugs or handles corner cases the other ones don't
that's just my take on it, others may beg to differ
 
@X4748 how do you not get permission problems? You're not running it as root and you're not installing with --user and you're not in a virtualenv, correct?
 
wim
@AndrasDeak probably macOS
 
@wim It's a tricky thing. And in Python, an innocent "How do I do X" question may read like a 3rd party lib request to the Python experts, but the newbie coder, who hasn't Googled with the right keywords doesn't know that. For all they know, X can be done with a stdlib call, or a simple line or 2 of core Python.
 
wim
8:08 PM
yeah just saw the apt-get stuff above
 
@AndrasDeak That's right...
 
And does that usually work for you?
 
wim
community wiki is like weasel words
don't do it
 
Hmmm, It's been a long time that I haven't installed any new package, I can't remember lol
But I think It has worked before
The directory '/home/me/.cache/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag.
Using sudo.
 
I didn't say use sudo
I'd have suggested pip3 --user instead. Using pip with sudo is unsafe because it involves arbitrary code execution.
 
8:12 PM
@AndrasDeak I thought you said that
@AndrasDeak Let me try...
 
the problem is that your error is not what I'd expect from permission problems...
there's a chance that your computer is merely haunted
I'm extremely weakly typed today
 
wim
> Using pip with sudo is unsafe because it involves arbitrary code execution
ftfy
 
I guess
 
@cs95 In principle, yes. In reality, the crowd on Meta would argue about the color of grass, (that's the more vocal of them, the others will simply misunderstand/ assume bad faith and hit the downvote/close buttons). I suppose we need a meta-question specifically for Python/pandas: What are objective criteria in Python/pandas for when an answer or reasked question is objectively better than another? (legibility, simplicity, performance, scaleability, Pythonic idiom, obsolescence due to...
... language or version change)
 
I think you might have a classic case of taking-downvotes-too-personally-itis, @smci
 
8:16 PM
me@me-G56JK:~/Desktop$ sudo pip3 install scrapy --user me
The directory '/home/me/.cache/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag.
The directory '/home/me/.cache/pip' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and caching wheels has been disabled. check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag.
 
why are you using sudo when Andras Deak explicitly told you not to?
 
@cs95 No, because I'm talking as much if not more about other people. Now I've learned the severe limitations of Meta and its user base, I use it very rarely and sparingly, and only when other more useful avenues have been exhausted/are not approporiate.
Anyway I'm off for now. Bye, see you all later. Thanks @PaulMcG for recommending pyparsing
 
@cs95 Sry I forgot...
me@me-G56JK:~/Desktop$ pip3 install scrapy --user me
Collecting scrapy
Using cached https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/3e/45/414e87ac8209d537c91575538c5307c20217a6943f555e0ee39f6db4bb0f/Scrapy-1.6.0-py2.py3-none-any.whl
Collecting me
Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement me (from versions: )
No matching distribution found for me
 
@smci It's almost pointless to ask questions on meta that involve domain-specific knowledge. But we've had that discussion before.
 
@smci Heh - like thanking me for breathing
 
8:19 PM
@X4748 I have many questions but this is a sinking ship, i'mma bail
 
wim
downvotes to be renamed to "constructive criticism encouragement arrows" or const-enc-dv for short
see https://stackoverflow.com/help/ccea
this feature will be rolling out yesterday.
 
@cs95 I'm reminded of this classic Spike Milligan joke: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_funniest_joke#The_jokes
 
lol
 
@PaulMcG spammm :P
 
Where are you from @AndrasDeak?
 
8:29 PM
The bottom of the abyss. I'm the one that stares back.
 
wim
not sure where he's from but we think he's a pest
 
my name is pest. buddha pest.
 
new take on the hungry thing, I like it
 
@AndrasDeak Right...
I think he's from England or the united states...
 
wim
n00bs would annoy you too if there was literally a river of them flowing through your city
 
8:32 PM
@X4748 I appreciate the flattery
 
grab your headphones, here's some nostalgia from the future: youtu.be/8GW6sLrK40k
 
I have no idea what I just experienced
 
Dono(t) despair, it's just silly localized puns
 
hungry + angry = hungary
has this one already been done? ^
 
Though, the nostalgia from the future, coupled with the suggestion of you being from England, has reminding me of this fantastic promo song released by Northampton's Council to promote the city
 
wim
8:39 PM
@cs95 yes but hangry
related: horngry
 
@cs95 Now I want to hear a version of Bob Marley's Them belly full sung in a Hungarian accent.
 
uff, the number of upvotes on that second one, I have never heard it before
 
@X4748 what is me?
I hope you didn't just fail to write pip3 install --user scrapy
OK, "me" is a placeholder for your username, makes it slightly less creepy
 
wim
--user is a flag
doesn't require an argument
 
@wim not even a five-minute one?
 
wim
8:55 PM
hits Deak with a truncheon
 
sorry, wrong room!
 
wim
though Could not find a version that satisfies me is a good error message!
 
hehe
 
hehe
 
wim
hehe
 
9:05 PM
@cs95 sorry for butting in. Hope you don't mind (-:
 
@piRSquared no actually, but thank you :D I was trying to figure out what they wanted when I saw your edit.
 
I was just starting to mess with it when I saw you post. made no sense to duplicate your work just to add that bit. I had to run to call my wife and didn't want to waste time with pasting stuff in comments. So....
TIL unicode is C++ !?
 
@AndrasDeak It's me! It's my username
 
@AndrasDeak I would've said "I disagree" but your's is funnier.
 
@wim Really? I thought I have to add my username --user username
 
9:19 PM
@X4748 The shell knows the current user's name. See unix.stackexchange.com/questions/76354/…
 
Why is it that every yamming dashboard template that I actually like uses Bootstrap 3, and all the Bootstrap 4 templates miss the mark for what I want? I hate shopping, even for free things :'(
 
Do I smell "Joshstrap" in our future?
 
Please re-read that statement
 
Oh.. I did (-:
 
Ok, then the restraining order is going through :P
 
9:35 PM
You ever tried to refrain from chortling at work with a cookie in your mouth? It is difficult!
/set bad behavior off
 
:P
 
9:55 PM
no, but I've suppressed multiple deep urges to yodel while at my workstation
these mostly come when the build finally passes
 
@cs95 not to put a bee in your bonnet but IIUC 4, 4, 9, 2 should be 3 different groups. First 4 goes to 1, Second 4 goes to 1, 9 goes to 2, but 2 plus 9 exceeds 10 and therefore goes to 3. Your code would put 2 in the same group as 9 because you gave cumsum which discounts the 9 for the remaining 2 left from the sum of the 4's (10 - 4 - 4)
In other words and again IIUC, cumsum will not get it done.
 
@piRSquared oof, you're right. this is much harder than initially surmised and I didn't catch that because the example didn't include such a corner case...
I'm out of delete votes so I can't delete my answer. I'll start looking for a fix
 
10:18 PM
@piRSquared I ended up with a clunky function that is called by apply. Not proud but at least happy that it isn't wrong anymore. Thanks for the tip :)
 
@cs95 np
 
dilemma's what? :P
 
10:33 PM
I'm gonna have to break my silence; what was the origin of laurel in here? I missed the convo and I'm not sure I'm able to totally get on-board without knowing the origin
 
plot twist: the joke was actually the poor usage of that rogue apostrophe
@roganjosh converted*, yea my bad :P
 
I tried, but I was too slow to help @cs95 :P
@cs95 but for a 1-off, is the conversion really beneficial vs the suggestion by Erfan?
 
@roganjosh it depends on what you're optimising for. df[df['Age'].isna()] is more sensible than df[df['Age'].eq('N/A')] given they're supposed to do the same thing. Performance wise it's likely the same.
 
@roganjosh "laurel" sounds roughly like "lol".
 
@PM2Ring I gathered at least that much, I just assumed there was some back-story convo here for its adoption :)
 
10:39 PM
Actually, I take that back. Since age is an int, we can have Nullable Int columns now, isna() will be magnitudes faster than on a string column
SO, yea, convert your N/A strings to NaN, or else your code will be saying "Nah mate, you suck"
 
rbrb o/
 
@roganjosh There might be some back-story, but it was before I joined this room. Jon Clements might know.
 
@cs95 I'm confused. Haven't you just said the opposite to this?
N/A cannot be in an int column, regardless of whether NaN is now accepted in int columns.
So your proposal to convert to Nan must surely first change the dtype of the column and convert the string N/A to nan before then being able to drop it
 
@AndrasDeak Minor pet peeve: people using "dilemma" when they aren't faced with two choices (preferably with both choices being undesirable).
 
@PM2Ring oh wow, ok. Maybe I just overlooked the references in the past; this seemed like something relatively recent. Or I'm just spending too much time here recently...
 
10:47 PM
incidentally, I'm not sure I'd have categorized laurel as a herb (an herb?)
 
A herb. And double wow, I missed it in Salad. I feel a bit silly.
 
wim
Mar 21 '18 at 22:32, by wim
What's yellow and equivalent to aoc? Zorn's lemon.
 
woosh
 
@AndrasDeak Americans say "an herb". For most of the rest of the world's native English speakers, the 'h' in "herb" isn't silent, so we say "a herb".
 
@cs95 Actually, I think I see your point. I'll have to look tomorrow because I'm probably too tired to set up a decent test case without doing something silly, but it feels like you're still going to have to do a pass on string data to do the conversion before you can start filtering
 
10:51 PM
Good, thanks x2, I say the h but I'm vaguely aware of some people who don't. Though I'd have guessed that it's the Brits with the weirder version ;)
 
@roganjosh no? If you're using "N/A", "Nan", "nan", "-", or any other string when you meant NaN, you're doing it wrong
 
But the data is already a string
 
At my last house, we had a small bay laurel in a pot, just outside the kitchen door, so we never ran out of bay leaves.
 
It's not my data and I'm not advocating 'N/A' over NaN. But if that's what you start with, is it really worth taking that string column, converting all the N/A values to nan and all the other string values to int before then filtering out nan?
for the sake of removing N/A values...
 
@roganjosh that's right. So, do this: pd.to_numeric(df['Age'], errors='coerce').astype('Int32') then use isna()
The discussion would've been moot if you'd used na_values=['N/A'] while reading the data in. If the data comes from elsewhere and is generated, and you aren't doing anything else with it beside dropping non-null data, then I see your point
 
10:55 PM
Ok, now I understand what you mean. Thanks
 
@AndrasDeak There are lots of dialects & accents in Britain. It wouldn't surprise me if Pam Ayres says "erb".
 
yeah, I guess talking about "British pronunciation" is a bit presumptuous
 
wim
@AndrasDeak maths
 
Actually, that's quite a tricky one. Mancunians drop lots of letters and actually words for the sake of brevity. "an erb", spoken, wouldn't sound strange. "An herb" written would seem very strange to me
 
@wim I could google that it's a lemma which explains the pun, but it seems to be about graphs and ordering which was enough for me not to click through :P
 
wim
11:04 PM
@Aran-Fey def x(): pass
 
meh
 
Here's an easier maths pun:
Q: What's purple & commutes? A: An abelian grape. — PM 2Ring Aug 22 '17 at 21:43
 
I think I'm missing half of that
 
does anyone know the state of theano?
 
Like with the old joke "Why did the beetroot blush? Because it saw the salad dressing". I found that funny when my English teacher told it when I was ~10, and it took me quite a few years to realize that salad dressings are a thing.
@Dair determined to find the infinity stones. What are you really trying to ask?
 
11:14 PM
it looks to be not maintained while still getting active commits.
as in the first line of the readme says "MILA" will not be continuing support of it.
 
ah, I see, haven't heard that before
 
but I remember seeing this a while back, but it still appears to get commits... Are they adding new features tho? Or are there just some small bug fixes.
 
> The PyMC developers will take over maintenance (primarily in service of PyMC3) of Theano. See here for the full announcement: medium.com/@pymc_devs/…
in the same thread linked from that first line
 
even on the medium article it isn't clear about how much PyMC is going to do lol.
 
> Critically, we do not plan to run Theano as Frederic did: we will be supporting Theano to the extent that it serves as PyMC3’s computational engine. As such, we will not add features, provide support, or otherwise improve Theano for issues not related directly to PyMC3.
This is due entirely to following our mission of producing great probabilistic programming software, which does not permit us to devote time and resources to Theano beyond its role under PyMC3. Given the maturity of the code base, we are confident of a smooth transition and anticipate the effort of ensuring that Theano is
is that insufficient?
it seems to suggest that you should only rely on theano via pymc3
 
11:18 PM
rip. It's like the only non-Cuda based ml library.
 
if 5000 questions have taught me anything, it's that it's worth showing the graph before the code that generates it
 
ok nvm, plaidML exists. It's all good.
 

« first day (3152 days earlier)      last day (1805 days later) »