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6:00 PM
We'll have cool 16 color ASCII art sign-in pages, and warez, and... What else did BBses have?
 
spam
 
The only thing I know about them is what I can deduce from two scenes from WarGames
Chess playing AIs, backdoor access to nuclear launch codes,
And ultimately, a life-affirming lesson about the futility of war.
 
@Kevin I was a huge fan of TradeWars 2002
even write the BBS guy a cheque for £15 so he could get the full copy :p
 
wim
get off the phone i'm on the internet
only 90's kids will understand this
 
<-- racked up a £600 phone bill over the summer holidays as a teen. Way ahead of the kids making in-app purchases these days.
 
6:13 PM
My family was, mercifully, an early adopter of whatever came immediately after dialup. But I still had to sit through the screeching startup noise whenever I went to a friend's house
 
@roganjosh I managed to get £190 in one week :*(
 
wim
I had as my ringtone for a while youtube.com/watch?v=gsNaR6FRuO0
 
anyway... I had that ship and 9 level 6 planets...
 
wim
drove 90's kids nuts so had to change it
 
All I was trying to sell my cool loot on Everquest :/ still, in those days there was no pleading to get the charges removed, it took me a lot of weekends to work that one off...
 
6:15 PM
@tripleee Closed
 
@roganjosh and then you got a "internet free phone number" or something with Demon Internet or .co, that basically allowed you to dial up on a certain number and it was FoC
still meant you'd pay £34.99/mth or something, and you'd still have to hog the phoneline, but you just wouldn't pay for the modem call
 
I honestly don't remember the setup my parents had. They had a second phone line installed for the interwebs but whatever deal they had, I went over a limit and they just threw hundreds of pounds onto the bill. I'm not sure it was so easy to track usage in those days (or maybe I just didn't give a yam) so it was the perfect trap
 
calls use to be cheaper after 7pm before then and all that?
 
Yeah, there was a tiered pricing system iirc
 
I vaguely remember a "BT Friends & Family Package" which you paid for each month, but you got one number free of charge, and up to a certain number at 10% off or something
 
6:22 PM
@wim There was a BBS sysop (based in Melbourne, IIRC), who was fairly prolific on Fidonet. He lived with his mum, who had a touch of dementia. She was convinced he was running an illegal business, and would try to listen in on his phone conversations, which of course tended to cause his modem to drop carrier.
 
@PM2Ring I was a remote BBS sysop for a year or so... what memories...
 
Yep. Gosh, I'd forgotten a lot of this. The extra phone line we had was along those lines too. It was specifically for dial-up, but came with limits
 
Internet: "I was designed to continue to operate even after a nuclear attack"
Also Internet: <disconnects the instant anyone's mom picks up the phone>
 
Vaguely remember toying with the modem and writing "AT" commands into it to see what I could do
 
The good old Hayes commands.
 
6:25 PM
ATDT rings a bell
 
I might even have an old modem manual hiding somewhere...
 
"Welcome to AOL.... you have... email". Now I think about it, that probably explains why the prices were crazy in the UK.
 
use to have "terminal software" that communicated with the modem over the rs232 and you could if you got it right, use that to actually "chat" with someone once someone had dialled a connection and someone else "accepted" it... then while I think the software covered that part of it, you had to sometimes issue a raw instruction
The Hayes command set is a specific command language originally developed by Dennis Hayes for the Hayes Smartmodem 300 baud modem in 1981. The command set consists of a series of short text strings which can be combined to produce commands for operations such as dialing, hanging up, and changing the parameters of the connection. The vast majority of dial-up modems use the Hayes command set in numerous variations. The command set covered only those operations supported by the earliest 300 bit/s modems. When new commands were required to control additional functionality in higher speed modems, a...
 
Remember when the Internet had more than four websites? Those were the days.
 
Fairly sure there's still more than four :p
 
6:31 PM
Yep. You didn't need to know many commands, unless you wanted to change the modem configuration, and you could just look up those more obscure commands. But I'm going to look at that Wiki link to see how many I remember...
 
Nope, Facebook / Instagram / Twitter / Stack Overflow are the only four, everything else is canceled
 
> If you’ve disabled COM2, you can now use
the COM2/IRQ3 setting. Write the setting
down on the first page of this manual.
found a manual for one of the first modems I had
memory lane of faffing about with IRQ settings
weren't most things on IRQ 7 or 11 in regards to graphic cards (when they were actually a rare thing) - rather that now, GPU's and probably have more RAM than the computer itself kind of thing
 
@Kevin ADSL?
 
Maybe. At the time I was less interested in the specs and more interested in looking up cheat codes on GameFAQs
 
I wrote a couple of Amiga programs that talked to the modem, so I was very familiar with the AT command set in those days.
 
6:41 PM
that's what we had after dial-up
 
wim
what the dupe for if "x" and "y" in "xy": thing
 
@wim there's two
@roganjosh any further music suggestions mate?
 
@wim The closest in our canonical collection is sopython.com/canon/110/how-do-comparisons-such-as-2-2-1-work
 
@JonClements oh goodness, that puts me on the spot. Just now posted an answer and trying to do the extra edits to fill in details, let me get back to you :)
 
wim
6:48 PM
hmm
 
user10984358
Hey guys I need a small clarification, if the purpose of r-strings in python is to avoid escaping characters, why can I do code1 and not code2
 
user10984358
>>> print(r"\w")
\w


>>> print(r"\")
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    print(r"\")
              ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning string literal
 
user10984358
I know I can do print('\\')
 
wim
> I am writing a security system that denies access to unauthorized users.
LOOOL @Kevin
 
@JonClements Do you like Gillian Welch? Time (The Revelator)
 
wim
6:51 PM
more like
> I am writing a canonical question that denies answers to duplicate questions.
 
@TheNamesAlc Hmm. I think this is a byproduct of Python's tokenizer, which uses the same mechanism for parsing regular string literals and raw string literals. In other words, since the tokenizer can't tokenize "\", it also can't tokenize r"\".
 
wim
@TheNamesAlc it's kind of weird, but it's how you escape a quote char
 
user10984358
I will look into that, thanks
 
@PM2Ring I quite like that - thank you
 
wim
6:54 PM
imagine you are a snake eating "\" from one end to the other
munch munch, oh there's a " character, we must be starting a string
 
I was going to say 'r"\" is techically legal syntax that CPython happens to reject as an implementation detail', but now that I read docs.python.org/3/reference/… all the way to the end I guess I better backpedal on that
 
wim
munch munch, oh, here's a \ character, we must be escaping something, oh look it's an escaped quote \"
munch munch .... where's the end of the string?!?
 
user10984358
I like this analogy
 
The docs say r"\" is not a valid string literal (even a raw string cannot end in an odd number of backslashes) so by fiat it's not legal syntax in any Python
 
user10984358
shouldn't they like have some tokenizer that if it sees an r-string it just stops escaping ?
 
6:57 PM
@TheNamesAlc Also see the FAQ docs.python.org/3/faq/… which is linked on that page.
@JonClements My pleasure. It has a haunting quality that grows on you.
 
The tokenizer can't stop escaping completely, because even in a raw string a quote mark can be escaped with a backslash
The backslash will still be present in the result but that's besides the point
 
@PM2Ring just found a cover I quite like: youtube.com/watch?v=wxE4pzvROcQ
 
Well, that's a first. Battled my way through a problem this week and now get to immediately turn it around to an answer for a question on the main feed.
@JonClements I'd probably have to think on this one. The only new music I'm exposed to comes from mainstream radio tbh. I find Dance Monkey really catchy (probably annoyingly) but it leaves me wondering why a lot of songs these days don't actually pronounce words correctly and just make noises a little short of grunting the words. For older songs, I can't remember all the ones we've covered :P
 
@TheNamesAlc See Artur's answer for how raw strings actually work stackoverflow.com/a/19654184/4014959
 
@roganjosh just don't recommend Axel F by that frog thing and I'm sure we'll be fine :p
 
7:07 PM
Thinking about it, "the tokenizer uses the same logic for all kinds of string literals" doesn't do a great job of explaining why r"\" is a syntax error. If the language devs were dying to make r"\" legal, it wouldn't be enormously hard to copy-paste the string literal tokenizer and make a custom raw string tokenizer.
 
@JonClements I'll listen to that one later. I'm currently listening to some Lindisfarne. Here's one you might like. Ann Wilson from Heart, singing She Talks To Angels. Ok, her voice isn't quite as strong these days, but there's still a lot of feeling in her delivery.
 
It might have been a factor in the original design decision, but "we'd like some way to allow quotes inside a quote-delimited raw string" would make redundant any argument about the feasibility of a completely escape-free tokenizer
 
@JonClements Lol. I just don't see how "I'll make you do it all again" -- > "I'll make you do de daaah da geeeeh". Same with Hold Me While You Wait, where "Awake" becomes "Awwwwweeeehhhh"
 
@JonClements Speaking of GnR covers, there's a German band who do a fun version of Sweet Child of Mine. It's a bit silly, but they're actually quite good, and it works! youtu.be/wbsEZzgCwmI
The woman singing in that clip is also a great electric guitarist.
 
wim
why I don't get is why people keep trying to use \ in their paths on windows
why don't they just use / it works since forever?
 
7:22 PM
they don't know they can use /
 
os.path does that
 
wim
they don't know because they never tried it?
but they tried struggling with \\ for hours?
I'm not convinced...
 
If you copy a path from Explorer or cmd, it's going to have backslashes. That at least explains why the aspiring coder's first draft uses them. Why they continue using them even after their program continues to fail, I don't know.
 
import os

print(os.path.abspath(__file__))
 
wim
hmm, data coming in from the clipboard. ok that's more convincing.
 
7:23 PM
--> C:\Users\Josh\Desktop\github\production_dashboard_v2\app\wip_planning\untitled2.py
 
@wim why would you try it if the entirety of windows uses \?
c:/ is just wrong
 
wim
@AndrasDeak uhh, cause you're a programmer, and you realized that \ is the escape character in your programming language?
 
Trying to remember if there was ever a time where Windows explicitly rejected a path with "/" in it... Maybe in my C++ days. If it did, I've repressed the memory.
 
We dont start that way
 
@wim I'm unconvinced, but admittedly I'm not really a programmer
 
7:24 PM
I still use \ in my code.
 
if windows users knew better they'd use linux
 
I use "\" in my paths but I also exclusively use raw strings for paths
Yeah, yeah, "use pathlib instead, storing paths in strings at all is lame now"
 
Same Kevin. i have, at most 1 or 2 "base paths" that contain "\". after that, everything i use with os.path.join
 
@AndrasDeak Oh come on :/ If the os module is doing it, you can't be sure how the paths were generated
 
@roganjosh only half joking. There are so many pains that windows users endure because that's just how things work. Backslashes in strings are just one more.
 
7:27 PM
But the os module could have addressed this?
 
If "addressing it" means potentially alienating what is displayed vs what people expect on the operating system they are in, i wouldn't be quite sure that counts as addressing.
 
Yeah, I don't understand that (i.e. roganjosh's point) either
 
the os module is great about having code that can construct paths that work for the os they are in. And honestly, that's good on it, i can get behind that decision making.
 
@ParitoshSingh did you see the path I posted a few mins ago? If you use os.path.join() you end up with a horrible-looking path
 
yeah, true xD i get those kinds of paths all the time in my code.
they just work though, even with the mixed slashes
 
7:30 PM
Ah, so os.path.join uses forward slashes even on windows?
 
I didn't know that. Yeah, that could make a user suspicious.
 
I'm not overly concerned that os.path.join("foo/bar", "baz") returns 'foo/bar\\baz' on my system.
 
Wait, so is it forward or backslashes??
 
If it's a legal path, it works for my purposes. If I need pretty output for the user, I'll pretty it up later.
 
7:32 PM
its linux slashes on path join
so foo/bar/baz
if that was the input
 
So what about Kevin's quote? Is Kevin's interpreter off?
 
@JonClements & maybe @roganjosh Some tyrant by Sarah Jarosz & Aoife O'Donovan.
 
I assume os.path.join always uses os.path.sep, which on my machine is "\\"
 
im assuming thats kevin's mental interpreter
i dont think so.
let me just confirm
 
The plot thickens. @Paritosh what's your os.path.sep?
I would indeed expect that to be used in join
 
7:33 PM
@AndrasDeak No, he's not off. That's what it produces on .join()
 
It's a real REPL, which may or may not be mental on account of being a Windows REPL :-P
 
im on windows. lemme pull up spider, 10 sec :P
 
>>> import os
>>> os.path.join("foo/bar", "baz")
'foo/bar\\baz'
>>> os.path.sep
'\\'
 
In that case I'm lost again about how os.path should be doing anything in the forward slash department...
 
wim
can you make a folder name like "foo/bar" on windows?
 
7:34 PM
i had it wrong
os.path.sep
Out[2]: '\\'

root = r"C:\Users"

os.path.join(root, "test")
Out[4]: 'C:\\Users\\test'
 
@wim no
That's an illegal character in a directory name
 
You can't make a folder named "foo/bar" from Explorer. It refuses to recognize the "/" keystroke. If you try it programatically, os.mkdir("foo/bar") will first try to navigate to directory foo before creating directory bar.
 
wim
so why don't they just use / as a path sep then
 
exactly
 
wim
I don't get windows, why make everything so freaking weird and difficult
 
7:36 PM
backward compatibility can be blamed for most bad decisions
 
But that potentially answers your original question of why Windows users have \ in their paths. The os module does it for them
 
I'm going to blame... <I spin a big wheel, 90% of which is labeled "backwards compatibility">... Backwards compatibility
 
think of poor DOS users
 
wim
what the other 10% ?
 
So, im back to being confused now
 
wim
7:37 PM
1. use / as path sep and disallow / in filenames
2. use \ as path sep and disallow \ in filenames
 
Interdepartmental turf wars, shortsighted design by nontechnical mangers, intentionally bad design to psyche out the competition...
 
wim
2 valid choices
 
It's the "breaking a beer bottle over your own head to frighten the other guy" of operating systems
 
wim
3. use \\ as path sep and i guess we're ok with / too and disallow CON, PRN, AUX, NUL, COM1, COM2, COM3, COM4, COM5, COM6, COM7, COM8, COM9, LPT1, LPT2, LPT3, LPT4, LPT5, LPT6, LPT7, LPT8, and LPT9 as filenames because we need that stuff
 
import os
os.path.sep
root = r"C:\Users"
#os.path.join(root, "test")
print(os.path.join(__file__, "test")) #D:/python/playground/pathtest.py\test
So, it's the fact that __file__ stores linux style slashes.
and i managed to convince myself i saw it the other way around. sorry AD, mb
 
7:39 PM
well this is all in the imaginary land of Windows so no biggie
 
Hmm. print(os.path.join(__file__, "test")) gives me C:\Users\Kevin\Desktop\test.py\test. Maybe it's a distribution-specific thing.
 
oh really? wow
 
Chaos reigns
 
im on python 3.7.3 still for what it's worth
 
I didn't even use join to get my previous output
 
wim
7:40 PM
3. is not a nice choice
 
C:\Users\Kevin\Desktop>test.py
C:\Users\Kevin\Desktop\test.py\test

C:\Users\Kevin\Desktop>py -3.8 test.py
test.py\test
... What
 
wim
who the heck has 9 line printers connected to their computer?!
 
print(os.path.abspath(__file__)) is enough to give \. I'm quite shocked this is a point of debate tbh. I rely on you guys to know these things :)
@ParitoshSingh unless ^ doesn't hold for you, in which case I'm not sure what's happening
 
@roganjosh so, question then to be clear
 
Apparently py.exe puts a relative path into __file__, and python.exe puts an absolute path in. I don't even.
 
7:43 PM
__file__ makes paths relative to cwd?
er..kevind
 
Sometimes, apparently
 
yeah, cause i just fired up the terminal, and my whole path turned into exactly your output
 
wim
how do you windows guys get any real work done
or is it just fighting edge cases all day
 
we put cotton in our ears, close our eyes, and yell na na na till things go away.
it works amazing except for when it doesnt.
But no, frankly, normal use, python offers a level of abstraction that makes life easy.
Same for most other things. just dont send data in excels and we're good.
 
I just avoid os.join() and concat the path on app startup --> no further Windows-specific issues (99% of the time)
 
7:46 PM
so, im confused. regardless of how os.join makes the path, the path is still workable by python right? So, what's the windows specific issues here with it?
 
While this behavior is certainly weird, I don't think it's likely to cause my scripts to fail. There aren't many scenarios where I have to supply an absolute path when all I've got is a path relative to my current working directory
And in those scenarios, I'm probably going to be coding defensively and calling abspath on my path anyway
 
@ParitoshSingh wim wondered why people on windows use \ in path, and I said that they probably didn't and it could be generated by the os module
 
Well, outside python, you must use '\' in path. so sorta going back to what AD and i were saying earlier, its the "right" separator for the OS.
Whether the os made a crappy call is a separate story
 
I wonder how many people can credit this conversation for discovering that the markdown engine doesn't behave nicely when you put a single backslash inside backticks
 
you saw that huh :D
@ParitoshSingh I just reminded myself, a story you guys can probably find amusing.
 
7:50 PM
I saw it like three times in the last ten minutes :-P
 
wim
what do windows users use to get resources?
 
I've been sent a file with some tabular data
It's not excel though
 
wim
does both pkgutil.get_data("pytz", r"zoneinfo\Australia\Melbourne") and pkgutil.get_data("pytz", "zoneinfo/Australia/Melbourne") work for you?
 
it's a pdf.
a pdf with 33000 pages of tables.
it's a freaking "what should have been a database" in a single file.
 
@wim Let's see. I just ran both, and they each returned None.
 
7:51 PM
@wim I just installed pytz and had all the timezones available IIRC but I'm going back a couple of years
 
wim
@Kevin they both broken? LOL ... do you have pytz installed?
 
No.
 
wim
@roganjosh I'm not asking if you have the zones avail
I'm asking if you can get them with either path sep
 
user10984358
sorry to barge in, Is it possible to refer the element being iterated in a map call?
 
I'll install pytz and try again... Now they both return a quite long bytes object.
 
user10984358
7:53 PM
so I can do this, with a map call, just for curiosity
 
no mixed code/text in chat here
 
wim
interesting because docs specifically say to use / docs.python.org/3/library/pkgutil.html#pkgutil.get_data
 
user10984358
list_comp_encoded=[op.methodcaller('replace',word,secret_codes[word])(word) for word in 'secret_word']
 
@TheNamesAlc Yeah, although you'll probably need a lambda.
 
wim
they don't say to use os.sep
 
user10984358
7:55 PM
@ParitoshSingh for some reason back-ticks didnt work
 
Something along the lines of result = list(map(lambda word: op.methodcaller('replace',word,secret_codes[word])(word)), "secret_word"))
@TheNamesAlc Backticks only work on messages that are one line long, alas
 
unrelated, but why don't you use word.replace(word, secret_codes[word]) instead of that horrible operator.methodcaller thing?
actually, why don't you just use secret_codes[word] instead?
 
im still stuck on trying to mentally parse what the heck is going on
 
user10984358
I was just getting to know that, I know this was better
 
user10984358
list_comp_encoded=[secret_codes[i] for i in 'secret word']
 
7:57 PM
These days I only use map if I don't need a lambda. Anything more complicated than map(name_of_function, name_of_collection) and I just use a list comp.
 
user10984358
I was getting my head on how methodcaller worked
 
I don't think I've ever seen anyone pass arguments to methodcaller. I had to look up what that even does. Probably best avoid that if you want your code to be readable
 
I guess you could do map(secret_codes.__getitem__, "secret_word") but that's just silly
 
or I guess if you really need it, at least drop a short comment
 
user10984358
that is why wrote for curiosity, from my on and off time in this room I know enough to avoid maps and filters :), I am just going through some functions of operator module
 
user3064538
8:03 PM
@Aran-Fey do you want to go through my edits and revert a bunch of them again?
 
no
 
Every version of Windows has accepted "/" as a path separator. So has every
version of MS-DOS beginning with DOS 2.0 (the first version that had
subdirectories).

It's only been in command lines that "/" was not allowed, because it had
already been used as a switch delimiter in MS-DOS 1.0.
 
Ok, so "/" was probably not rejected in my C++ days.
 
All of my trauma must have been from other things then
 
8:05 PM
I remember arguing about this stuff with MS-DOS C programmers before Windows existed...
One of my buddies IRL back in those days worked as a beta tester for Microsoft. He told us stuff about Windows before it was released.
 
8:18 PM
To start Windows, you ran it in the command prompt (of course). While he was exploring Windows for the very first time, he opened a new command prompt inside Windows, and it worked correctly on a bunch of standard DOS commands. Then he had the bright idea of launching Windows in that command prompt inside Windows. It worked! And he continued exploring that Windows inside DOS inside Windows.
Everything seemed fine, and he continued exploring. And he kinda forgot he was in a nested copy of Windows. About an hour later, he tried to print something, and it wouldn't print. Eventually he called a dev to help him, to no avail. Oh no, a Windows bug! Finally he remembered he was in a nested copy. So he exited out of it, back to the outer Windows, and printing worked correctly. So Microsoft killed that "bug" by making it impossible to launch Windows inside itself.
 
wim
so this whole thing came from a bug in CMD.exe ? how depressing
stackoverflow.com/q/58663311/674039 @Code-Apprentice didn't I answer it to your satisfaction?
 
"Are you not entertained?"
 
@wim My little anecdote has nothing to do with the slash vs backslash thing. It was just an illustration of how Microsoft works. The devs wrote Windows well enough that it could almost run re-entrant, the only problem was interrupts. But rather than allowing that limited re-entrancy, the powers that be decided to block it so the interrupts issue wouldn't arise.
IIRC, using slash instead of dash to indicate options was Bill Gates's idea. But that meant that they needed something else for a path separator, once they decided that they needed subdirectories.
 
8:34 PM
"they decided that they needed subdirectories", woooow
 
Any C coder would've objected, but assembler coders couldn't care less. And all those early microcomputer OSes were coded in assembler, they couldn't afford the luxury of using C. Besides, assembler coders tended to have a bit of a superiority complex. ;) If you couldn't write assembler, you weren't a real coder. ;)
@AndrasDeak :) It was a pretty radical step up from just dropping everything into the root directory. And that was a luxury compared to earlier systems, when we didn't even have a file system, and had to know low-level HD stuff like sectors & cylinders. Doing Cobol & Fortran on disk based machines in those days was an adventure! Tapes were a lot easier to work with.
 
trippy
I literally can't imagine what that might have been like
 
Oh, so it probably looked like my parents' desktop screen
if you're lucky, you can find 2 or 3 empty spots to right click
(ofcourse joke aside, there probably wasn't even anything to "look" at as such, was there :P)
 
"click"? What is that, 21st century slang for "enter a command"?
 
It's the "future"!
 
8:45 PM
Well, you felt close to the hardware. Device drivers hadn't been invented, so you basically had that low-level stuff coded into normal user programs. Printing to the line printer, and reading & punching cards was fairly straightforward, though.
 
@wim I posted that before asking about it in chat.
and didn't wanna break the rules by posting a link to a brand new question directly in chat.
 
@ParitoshSingh I was coding for several years before I saw a computer with a video monitor. And that was a vector graphic display, not bitmap. The RAM to map 640×480 pixels would've cost more than a house.
 
That is mind boggling to me honestly. Amazing
 
@PM2Ring Was that basically an oscilloscope?
then again aren't all CRTs
 
@ParitoshSingh We did have flashing lights on the front panel, which told you the bit values in the registers & in a small chunk of RAM that you could select using dials.
The front panels have been removed so you can see the racks full of magnetic core RAM.
 
8:53 PM
@wim Thanks for the answer. I think that basically summarizes our earlier convo with some more technical details.
 
@AndrasDeak Yes. It's the CRT equivalent of a line plotter. So it has enough RAM to hold a small number of vertices & edges. They generally had long-persistence phosphors, to reduce the frequency that the display needed to be redrawn, like old-fashioned radar. That meant they were pretty useless for fancy animation. But hey, we had fun playing with that stuff. It was like something out of science fiction, when you're used to lineprinters & card punchers for output.
 
wim
9:14 PM
I just realised there is another moving part which screws people up often, the pip._internal import sometimes gets resolved to a wrong spot, or can't import at all (due to sys.path shenanigans). I added an addendum about that.
 
@PM2Ring I remember my first job and my department (and company) director told me about when he was a trainee/junior, and he knocked over a whole load of punch cards and needless to say, they were furious :p
 
wim
@Code-Apprentice fair enough
 
@PM2Ring sounds amazing!
 
wim
Added compulsory xkcd xkcd.com/1987
 
9:38 PM
@JonClements Yeah. Dropping a small deck of cards wasn't too bad, especially if it was a high level language. You'd just have to sit down with the latest printout of your program & try to reorder them. But if it was assembler, forget it. On standard 80 column cards, the last 8 columns were an automatic comment field, intended to be used for sequence numbers, but lots of people didn't bother numbering their cards... until they'd had one too many disasters.
 
wim
10:02 PM
will 2.7.18 be the last 2.7.x ?
 
hello peopel
does the package github.com/aio-libs/aiomysql asyncio mysql lock table or table row when its working on a row
 
I'm not sure why python asyncio would be a bother for DBs since they are designed for concurrency, but I have absolutely no definitive knowledge on that specific question
 
wim
april 2020, weird.
@roganjosh asyncio is a big bother for dbs because the popular ORMs like sqlalchemy don't work with asyncio
 
10:18 PM
@wim i heard there are people running popular libraries adamant on making their code asynio compatible
@roganjosh okay great
 
@wim Sure, but I suspect that the database itself doesn't give a poop about whether there is some python code running in async, once you strip back the broken tools.
 
wim
it doesn't but the user was asking about how that particular library locks
(I don't know the answer, but I would just crank up the sql logging and see what happens)
man, why would anyone use gitlab
you just know a project is going to be bad when they're on gitlab or bitbucket
 
I was banned from using github before I even started at my current place
 
@wim cool i will try that
 
Not that they had even heard of "git". The second in charge of IT looked at me like I'd gone mad when I said "git" and told me I needed to make flat files of backups or something equally nonsensical
 
10:24 PM
@roganjosh You are in the UK/
?
 
I am indeed
 
I am moving my startup to london and i am looking for som wicked pythonistas
 
What are you working on?
 
to do some pretty odd things with python
a few things but the two major are vehicle manufacturing and saas
 
There are others in this room much better versed in Python than me btw.
 
10:27 PM
a saas platform and a digitalocean like service for the saas i shal be offering
 
Well, "manufacturing" gets me interested
 
But vehicles mostly
oh cool
you answered my question the other day so you are all right
 
@objectiveME You can contact me here.
 
Oh cool i will
 
wim
@roganjosh LOL
yeah that definitely not the A-team then
 
10:36 PM
He's on ~£100K a year. I've spoken about my war against the IT dept. many times, but I wanna be the one that tells them that their number is up
 
wim
bahaha
I would take a shit on his desk and walk out of there laughing
you just know what kind of company it gonna be if the people in IT don't even know what git is, time to vote with your feet
 
^^ Metaphorically that. I will see them out the door
 
100k is not a lot
 
It is a lot outside of London in the UK
 
and it's getting less each day
 
10:42 PM
@roganjosh oh ok
 
Keep in mind that this guy is full-time, for 30 years. Not a contractor
 
@AndrasDeak Things must be dire
 
oh they are :P
 
how are you supposed to live on 100k in london!!!
 
Where do you live?
 
10:45 PM
Most part Amsterdam and Toronto
and Africa as well
 
@roganjosh whooooah that's a lot of money
 
I struggle to conceptualise 100K being a small sum but I may be missing something
 
If you make 2000 pounds per day for 30 days thats 60,000 per month
and 720,000 per year
 
I mean, considering that it's only 9x my wage it's not that much, just a lot
 
so in my view 100k is not a lot
 
10:48 PM
@AndrasDeak Well, I've already told you about Dunning-Kruger and the fact I think you could be earning a yam-load more. But you have to balance it against your interest in the topic
 
@objectiveME okay?
@roganjosh yeah, of course
 
@AndrasDeak remunerations topics almost end up attracting brexiters,less than fresh politicians and red noses with a lot to say, so i let hr decide their things according to the 'market foces'
I am going to pay much more attention now
 
@objectiveME okay again?
 
@AndrasDeak ;)
 
@objectiveME I don't know a contractor that makes that, or who would post in chat tbh
 
10:53 PM
@roganjosh you need to mingle better, bruh
 
Seems so. I'll take a ticket for my coat and modesty
 
@roganjosh actually its almost public knowledge. I get a lot of emails telling me how i can earn delivering goods in and around london and they actually do pay, so many websites do that
 
Drug mule?
 
In seriousness, I don't follow
 
10:55 PM
Nope, on-demand delivery for a multitude of companies
@roganjosh probably not your kind of thing but its totally a thing nowadays
 
Logistics is my game. It's in my head on how to move forward but I haven't sussed it yet
 
@roganjosh you should swap your computer for a bike and you'd see £££ coming in like wooosh
 
@objectiveME You mean that helping with all the Tesco deliveries across the UK makes this "not my kind of thing"?
 
from the 2000 per day you could easily afford that funeral you'd need in what I imagine is cycling through London :D
 
@AndrasDeak lol
@roganjosh I assume yes. It looks easy and inviting but my friend is doing it and i can assure you its a lot of work
 
10:59 PM
@objectiveME At this point, I have no idea what we're talking about tbh
 
thank goodness, it's not just me
I'm sticking with my "drug mule" theory
 

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