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12:02 AM
i am getting in the terminal, object at 0x432123
i am trying to see what is inside that object
print(myobject) doesn't help here
what's the way to see the inside of an object?
 
wim
open up your computer and go to 0x432123 on your RAM
 
>>> dir(object)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__format__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__']
 
12:17 AM
I'd try type(object) first
 
type is good, that's definitely a go to for me as well
 
12:33 AM
That's strange, whenever I do type on the built-in object base class I just get <class 'type'>
>>> type(object)
<class 'type'>
>>> object
<class 'object'>
sort of confusing
 
try type(type) next
 
did that it's a type
 
 
4 hours later…
5:18 AM
@Skyler caps lock? accidentally switched to Czech keyboard layout and the keys don't give you at all the letters on the keys themselves?
 
6:05 AM
@tripleee ubuntu usually shows an icon or popup if caps lock is on
 
 
2 hours later…
7:50 AM
cabbage
 
cabbage
 
Yesterday I saw posts "capped" (bottomed?) at -1. Today it's 0. *sigh*
 
@smci Sorry about the delay, but renaming the title to "...if all strings in a list..." would be better I think.
 
8:21 AM
cbg
 
8:36 AM
@thefourtheye Why? It's preferable to keep the question as broad as possible. What about the question or the answer is not applicable to things other than strings?
 
8:56 AM
@smci can you please stop changing the intent and focus of questions? the issue is not at all about raising an exception using print instead of raise. The issue is that the exception handling must be in the function instead of the other way around.
if I were the questioner, I would feel seriously harassed by such a misrepresentation.
 
@MisterMiyagi Can you please stop misrepresenting things? The OP used a print() statement to do print "Divide by 0 Error" then wrote My message "Divide by 0 error" is not going through, instead I'm getting a normal ZeroDivisionError. How on earth do you misconstrue that?
 
he was expecting to handle the ZeroDivisionError using his try/except block and print the message during the handling.
not raise the exception by printing.
since his error handling and function definition is the wrong way around, his message is not going through
The answer clarifies this and the OP's reaction is a pretty strong hint that this was indeed the problem.
nowhere does it say in the original messages by the OP that they would expect print to raise an exception.
 
@MisterMiyagi Just stop with your personal attacks on me based on misrepresentations and things you misread. (Two weeks ago you grossly misrepresented me saying "There is no one single universal newline character in Python (across Windows-MacOS-Linux)" as somehow having claimed "Python does not have universal newline support", which I never said).
 
I would really, really like to just ignore you. Believe me. But this has been a repeated occurrence where edits from you caused me to misjudge a question before going through the process of crawling through edit logs.
 
@MisterMiyagi The question was hopelessly garbled. The OP declares a function in the try-clause of a try-except, then proceeds to not use or call the function anywhere. Hence the except clause will never get triggered. The except-clause is attempting to catch ZeroDivisionError. Then the user complains "My message "Divide by 0 error" is not going through, instead I'm getting a normal ZeroDivisionError." which is not in the least surprising, because a) the try-except ain't going to catch anything
...b) even if it did, claimingexcept ZeroDivisionError: print "Divide by 0 Error"*"is not going through"* sounds like a garbled attempt to raise an exception with custom text.
 
9:10 AM
"a) the try-except ain't going to catch anything" and that was the problem
 
@MisterMiyagi But "going through" appears to refer to a failed attempt to raise a custom exception. Not to print a message. Otherwise most people would simply ask "Why is message not printing"
 
nowhere does it say "my exception is not going through"
he is explicitly asking about the message
the original text explicitly mentioned that the ZeroDivisionError is thrown and he wants a message instead
 
@MisterMiyagi Even now you're mispresenting me, The first line of the question says My message "Divide by 0 error" is not going through. So when we look at the code, it looks like a garbled attempt to catch an exception and reraise as an exception with a custom message: except ZeroDivisionError: print "Divide by 0 Error"*
@MisterMiyagi No they didn't; what they wrote was garbled. Like I said.
:47546739 Yes that's the description, and when we look at the code, it sure looks like a garbled attempt to catch an exception and reraise as an exception with a custom message: except ZeroDivisionError: print "Divide by 0 Error". The fact that the try-clause doesn't actively call anything at all (it only defines an unused function di) make things even more garbled.
 
you know what, I think we've both said what we had to say.
no use going in circles again.
 
Hey I am wondering what is the modern way to do this: stackoverflow.com/questions/375427/…
The top answers seem unnecessarily complicated and I assume there is a new cleaner way to do this now?
Oh and it should work on windows, that's why I can't use asyncproc
 
9:19 AM
you may want to try your luck with asyncio
basically everything that you'd want to use select for means today you want async code
 
@MisterMiyagi No, I'm not standing for repeated abuse, rudeness and misrepresentation from you. Do not be so sure that your reading of garbled newbie questions is the One True Reading. Also, you will start being polite and stop violating room rules.
 
Indeed. The same poster of the top answer also posted another answer
 
The correct and polite way to phrase what you wrote above to me is "Hey I think you misread OP's intent..." (To which my answer was already "It's hopelessly garbled and the user clearly doesn't know how to use a try-except and appeared not to understand the difference between an exception and a print command).
 
the correct and polite way when encountering a garbled question is to ask the OP what they meant.
 
@smci heads-up: that wasn't a personal attack
@MisterMiyagi yup
 
9:23 AM
@MisterMiyagi I had already read through both the question and the answer and it still very badly looks like a garbled attempt to catch an exception and reraise as an exception with a custom message. Again, do not be so sure that your reading of garbled newbie questions is the One True Reading. It isn't. You often go knee-jerk like that.
 
@smci leave the room policing to us, thank you. You were not abused here now. At all.
So let's please drop the arguing (this goes for everyone). Points have been made.
 
@AndrasDeak Yes he did personally attack me; for the second time in two weeks. Stop pandering to him. I'm not accepting excuses. If he wanted to politely say "Hey I think you misread OP's intent..." that would be perfectly fine and welcome. I am not going to ankle-dog MM around the site and pounce on things he wrote to attack his credibility.
 
I'm glad to hear that.
I've edited the title to something that covers what OP is asking about
I'm wondering if we should close that as a brain "typo"; I don't know how often people would make the same mistake and whether they could google that question
as basic the mistake is, it's a very specific kind of basic, so there might be value in keeping it around
 
I personally see no harm in keeping it open
 
please don't start flagging needlessly here
 
9:35 AM
@AndrasDeak Let me have a look at it.... Argh, Python 2 code, with single space indentation.
 
@PM2Ring hahaha :D
 
@PM2Ring yeah, we should probably fix that if we want to keep it. It's somewhat atrocious to look at ;)
not the 2, the indentation :D
 
@AndrasDeak it's very close to defer patterns, so I guess it could be helpful if people can find it
 
@AndrasDeak Your edit still doesn't unambiguously capture the issue; it's unclear that the calling code isn't also inside the try-clause. I'd title it "Why doesn't wrapping just a function definition in try-except catch exceptions raised when it runs?"
 
I can live with that, if that would make you feel more content.
 
9:37 AM
For this level of debate, one would be excused for thinking the content of the question was some earth-shattering observation. It is not. I don't see the need to be changing it any more
 
My first impression is that the OP is confused about how to do exception handling. Defining a function inside a try block like that is pretty unusual, but people do all sorts of odd stuff when they don't really know what they're doing. Maybe some future newbie will do that, but will they be able to Google this question? Probably not. But I'll take a closer look & think about it, while I drink a coffee...
 
@roganjosh Noone said it was hugely important, but it's a newbie misconception, like all the others. Again, if you look at the garbled code, it sure looks like the OP thought that print statements somehow pass exceptions. Which would be an important basic misconception. Turns out they had a different misconception.
 
Hey yesterday somebody posted a post about unittest ips which was usefull, but I can't find it again with googling along the lines "unittest unreachable ip"
 
@smci I disagree about the prints, which is why I edited the title. They thought that putting exception handling around the def would be enough/correct/meaningful
 
not sure who it was though
 
9:42 AM
the print is a red herring in my opinion
 
ah nvm found it with slighetly different keywords: stackoverflow.com/questions/10456044/…
 
@AndrasDeak The question statement was pretty garbled. You agree with me that the OP's original title ("Exception message wont go trough in error Handling operation TRY:") was inadequate (since you also edited the title), and that was what MM disagreed with both of us on. I don't see any need for that discussion to be in any way adversarial.
 
I did not disagree that the original title was suboptimal.
 
@smci That ^ I think he just objected to your interpretation
Turning something confusing into something questionable is not an improvement, hence his objection.
 
Since it was mentioned: room tone
 
9:47 AM
@AndrasDeak If he had only expressed himself like you're doing, that would have been fine, and the room tone would have been fine.
 
@smci he may have been harsher than necessary, but I don't think he was rude. You must understand that seeing several of such edits that you think confuse the reader will make someoen impatient. It's not great, but it's somewhat inevitable. Escalation is rarely a solution to this. You can make your discomfort known without escalation. There's plenty of drama on the network without having some here.
I'm sure Miyagi will make an effort to phrase his objections more calmly next time
assuming Mister is an indication that "he" is appropriate :P
 
did you just assume :D
excuse me :P
 
Andras:
42 mins ago, by MisterMiyagi
I would really, really like to just ignore you. Believe me. But this has been a repeated occurrence where edits from you caused me to misjudge a question before going through the process of crawling through edit logs.
 
I don't think it's the first time so he'd have corrected me if it were wrong
 
okay folks, I need to read up a bit and get context, but let's keep things civil please?
 
9:50 AM
^^ just joking
 
@smci I've told you before, something about the way you communicate often comes across as off-putting (I can't really put my finger on it, it's just an impression). That's the same reason why I told you numerous times in the past that I won't argue with you. That is probably the same sentiment behind Miyagi's message.
in any case, @MisterMiyagi you can actually ignore users in chat
 
Andras, you kicked me from the room for flagging MM's blatant violation of room rules. Then you tried to gaslight me that it wasn't a violation. That's why escalation is necessary with you.
 
@smci no, I kicked you for continuing the argument when I explicitly told everyone to stop it
And accusing me of gaslighting all the time will not make me more compassionate about your situation
 
@AndrasDeak I am aware of that. but since this will prevent me from finding information I need to answer question properly, I cannot in this case.
 
lol what? I just tried to be productive but ok
 
9:53 AM
@MisterMiyagi then please try to Be Nice when you raise your criticism so that we don't get into this situation again
frankly I'm a bit weary jumping through these hoops all the time
@Hakaishin appreciated
so let's all take a deep breath and come in for a group hug
 
<3
 
Is this pattern widely known if a is None or a.some_property == "42":
 
you mean in Python or in general?
 
the only related thing I know is "null coalescing operators" which are not a thing in python
 
9:59 AM
many languages have the Elvis Operator these days
 
obviously you can't change the order of the two conditions, but logically it does not make sense because it's only or, but in code it does make sense
elvis?
python but also general
 
@Hakaishin or short-circuits, so it's very much not "it's only or". The order is everything.
 
@Hakaishin a shorter form of ternary a ? a : b as a ?: a.some_property
 
ah I don't like the elvis operator
 
you have to love it tender
 
10:02 AM
@AndrasDeak and I guess this is known to people and not unreadable code?
 
@Hakaishin it usually is, yes
this doesn't mean that you should stick everyting in an expression, but it means it's not necessarily bad to do that
 
alright
 
though it usually happens as if a is not None and a.some_property == "42":
that is easier to parse and a more common use case
 
True, true, but not in my case :P
 
yeah
 
10:07 AM
Hi :)
 
hello
 
@AndrasDeak :D I was thinking about that time you were a Gande Damagh :D just came here to say hi :)
 
delightful :P
I still am, probably
 
yeah sure :))) but It's ok, your Gande Damaghness helps me a lot
:)))))
 
glad to hear that
 
10:12 AM
I was coding and remembered you, just came here to wish you a happy and not Gande Damagh day :D
 
thanks, you too
 
thanks, bye for now... I will come back soon with some stupid questions to see your lovely Gande Damaghness :D
 
take care
 
you too
 
Oh btw where would I ask this question. I want to delete my old(7years unused, never logged in) Twitter account. I lost the email to it, but it has my name so I would like to delete it. I wrote twitter support twice and told them this is my old account it's obv. inactive as they can see I lost the email pls delete it. I even attached a scan of my passport to prove that it is me. But after 2requests they refuse to delete it.
Now i saw and send them this: https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/right-to-be-forgotten/ But they still refuse. On what SE site do I ask a question where the probability of success is the highest, but the effort is the lowest. Ofc I could ask on Law, but that seems like ppl will tell me get a lawyer which sounds expensive. Is there a
SE site which could help me with this problem?
 
10:17 AM
@AndrasDeak Ok, I've had a closer look. I think we can keep it open. With the current title it may be findable by someone who defined a function in a try block. Also, I like to encourage OPs who post MCVEs, and getting your question closed & roomba'd is a bit discouraging. Prune's answer is fine, but if someone wants to write a fuller answer that would be ok too.
 
is gande damagh a religious thing? never heard of it
 
ahahah :D
 
@Hakaishin if you're in the EU they don't really have the right to refuse a GDPR deletion request, but I guess you would have to be able to identify yourself uniquely, which is probably the key problem
Don't know where you could ask on SE. Perhaps someplace on reddit is better, no idea.
@PM2Ring OK, thanks
 
I don't know how I feel about old me. Going through the most ludicrous part of my code base trying to knit 5 spreadsheets together, I've come across # You're not having a good time at this point, are you?On the one hand, I feel he gets me but on the other, it's really not helping me feel any better
 
10:26 AM
three pages down: # help I'm being held hostage in a comment factory
 
@Hakaishin You might enjoy my answer here: stackoverflow.com/a/36551857/4014959 It's rather old, so it's Python 2. Sorry about that. Before the a if condition else b ternary expression was added to Python, we had to use and & or for that sort of thing, but it's less common these days.
 
commute rhubarb
 
@AndrasDeak I do feel like a part of me was stolen when I originally wrote that code
 
let's hope it was the bad parts :D
 
:) the one thing I can say is that this mess has captured every bizarre corner case for the last 18 months. I must have anticipated a full rewrite at the time
 
10:39 AM
@AndrasDeak I know, this is why their email response is so infuriating. I'm kinda lost how to get it deleted. I guess I will try law and see what ppl say
hah, this is all gonna be more complicated than I thought, since I'm in Switzerland and we are only kinda eu, dammit
 
@AndrasDeak 3.8 features a new package, importlib.metadata, which lets you get metadata of an installed lib in an easier way than the pkg_resources stuff that was necessary before. version would be importlib.metadata.version('my_lib') and license importlib.metadata.metadata('my_lib')['License']
 
11:00 AM
I was wondering why the meta post about gender pronouns had so many downvotes until...
> Explicitly avoiding using someone’s pronouns because you are uncomfortable is a way of refusing to recognize their identity and is a violation of the Code of Conduct.
This company isn't right in the head, is it?
5
 
11:27 AM
recbg
 
@Aran-Fey I think that is just bad wording. Many comments suggest it applies only if you selectively avoid that single pronoun. If you generally avoid pronouns, it is fine.
 
@Arne thanks, sounds saner
 
Well, I hope so
 
@Aran-Fey what Miyagi said. I forgot I wanted to reply
someone raised whether avoiding all pronouns is OK, and they said something along the lines of "we don't think you can pull it off, but sure"
and I asked and using "they" for everyone except when you know better is also OK
 
not being allowed to use a gender neutral pronoun is still stupid though
 
11:40 AM
@Aran-Fey it depends on what you think is a gender-neutral pronoun
 
they/them?
 
That usually works, as I said. But there are trans/non-binary (and even cis) people who object to being called "they"...
 
at that point they're really just being ridiculous
 
So there's no universally good strategy (save not using any pronouns, but some are skeptical about that). The reasonable approach is to avoid all pronouns, or default to "they". And if someone objects then accept that end use their pronouns instead.
@Aran-Fey who's "they"?
 
people who object to the use of "they"
 
11:44 AM
No, they aren't. Similarly to how you wouldn't want to be called "she" (or maybe you do, but a lot of males wouldn't), some people object to "they". Either because they feel it can't be used as singular, or because they are non-binary and prefer a specific other pronoun. (Or other reasons I guess, people are diverse)
Pronouns are deeply tied to identity, and this is a key point that many reject. The company really is doing a ghastly job about the whole subject, but the underlying issues are real
if you're interested in what I think I had a longer chat last night in the MATLAB room, I don't want to rehash the whole thing again here. Starts here
 
but you have to admit that pronouns are part of the core API of language, and extending it so aggressively after it's been stable for hundreds of years is going to whiplash people that are only just now learning of the wider issue
 
intolerance is also a part of the core API of culture
Things will only start getting better if we do something, and slightly changing how you use language is usually not a huge price to pay to make someone feel less rejected by society. Which is really the core of the debate.
 
I can sympathize with not wanting to be referred to as "he" or "she" if someone's gender doesn't align with "male"/"female", but the whole point of "they" is to include every gender (that's what gender-neutral means), so objecting to the use of "they" is just childish/ridiculous as far as I'm concerned
 
@Aran-Fey why is "I don't like he" inherently better than "I don't like they"? There's an arbitrary line in between, rooted in our prejudices. You have to should accept that people's identity is attached to their pronouns, and there's nothing to debate about that. If you believe that transgender people exist then you can as easily believe that people have non-trivial pronouns. It's the same root.
 
well, I'll do my best. I don't mind the changes anyway
 
11:51 AM
the difference is that "he" implies a gender while "they" does not
 
@Arne there's a lot to unpack in the matter, and I tried articulating my stance in the linked transcript. One key point is you can't really effect this change with force. It needs discourse.
@Aran-Fey you'll be surprised then, gender is more than "male" or "female". There's also "neither" and "other" and I think there's multiple kinds of others.
there's also "both" and "it varies" I think
 
right, but "they" doesn't imply anything
 
@Aran-Fey to you it doesn't
to some it only implies more than one person
and to some it implies their gender, or a concept of gender they don't identify with
No matter how many boxes we define, some will always not fit in any of them. So the only maintainable solution is to take people's identity (pronouns included) at face value. And try to be nice.
the company is managing this in a very not nice way, which shadows the whole intent of the change, hence the public uproar
 
@AndrasDeak reading through it right now. Is there a post of monica where she explains why using "they" causes her mental distress? It sounds incredible to me.
 
I don't think so
I'll try to see if she posted something on her blog
"Mental distress" is my phrasing, she's adamant that "they" doesn't work as singular. I charitably imagine it's how a compiler might feel when a segfault happens.
@Arne so there's some here but she doesn't go into much detail
 
12:03 PM
thanks
 
I've seen a now-deleted remark where she explained that her brain just isn't wired to handle singular "they" and it's too much to ask from her if she can work around it. And she at the same time explained that she'll gladly use any neopronoun (ze/xe/ve/ne/...), it's entirely just about "they". This is where the whole controversy started from...
 
Wonder how long it's gonna take before people start complaining about "they" when it's referring to a hypothetical person. You say "If someone wants a burger, they have to pay for it" and someone's like "I don't feel included in this 'they'. You should use 'they/xe/ze' instead"
 
And that will almost never happen, because from what I've heard most trans/non-binary people are fine with generic "they". It was trans users who told me that my stance of defaulting to "they" is perfectly fine. But if someone objects to that, then I should try using their pronoun instead.
Since 1. you almost never talk about people in the third person on SO, and 2. when you do you can default to "they", and 3. most people have he/she, you will never in practice run into this on SO.
and you shouldn't worry about someone trying to troll or abuse with pronouns, because that's like any other kind of trolling, and not tolerated
 
Has anyone here used all three of Circle CI, poetry and tox together? I can find docs for all three pairs, but nothing for all three. Sorry to intrude a technical question into all this deeply interesting (yawn) stuff ;-).
 
12:12 PM
Not to dismiss it in anything other than an "I served my time on the diversity list" way.
Been there, done that, washed the t shirt so many times it fell to bits. But that was all some time ago, and social mores move on.
 
tentatively checks the room atmosphere...
Has the dust settled?
Timid cabbage.
 
Dust is settling, I'm still sulking in a corner though
 
There was dust? I just blundered in and started kicking things over in my usual careless way.
 
It's hardly objectionable to talk about python here :P And this isn't really a debate, per se, just me sharing my two cents because I think the only way we'll get out of this sane is if we talk about it.
 
@holdenweb since noone else is chiming in, i've used poetry with github actions and gitlab-ci. Dunno if i'll be able yo help, but i can try.
@AndrasDeak i appreciate that very much
 
12:23 PM
I estimate that 1% of users prefer a pronoun other than the one assigned to them at birth, and only 1% of that group prefer a pronoun other than "he" or "she", and only 1% of that subgroup prefer a pronoun other than "they", so the odds of you meeting someone with "cumbersome" pronoun preferences is literally astronomically low
The cognitive labor any of us has put into deciding whether this is a sensible policy is an order of magnitude higher than the cognitive labor required to actually follow the policy
 
Ha, I wish I had said that!
 
What I'm focused on right now is getting out of the habit of assuming all OPs are male when I gossip about them in here
 
Since we usually associate OPs with negative things, I'm not sure if that's really a problem :D
 
(side note of the side note: it is said^[citation needed] that pronouns are not preferred, they are just pronouns (correct ones))
 
OP is a single person, and he exists to torment me with vague questions
 
12:30 PM
in other news, yesterday I saw votes limited at -1 score, earlier today they were limited at 0, now it's back at -1 again
I missed my opportunity to give a strong signal while it was at 0
I guess 0 will be back soon anyway
 
very interesting read above
There was a streamer I used to mod for. He'd always say "Hey there xxxxxx, what's your pronoun?" as a joke when he first saw them in chat. Kinda interesting thought.
 
you're sure it was a joke?
 
It was when he said it (this was a few years ago before a lot of this happened)
 
yeah, I get that, I was just curious
 
Yea, now a days it might not be a joke.
He hasnt streamed in a long time either
 
12:38 PM
@AndrasDeak Certainly I find it plausible that there are individuals that would prefer us to not use "preferred", but I don't think it's a mainstream viewpoint just yet. But who knows where the winds will blow tomorrow.
If there was real steam in such a movement, I'd at least expect a blurb about it on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferred_gender_pronoun, or a flame war about it on the talk page
 
Ima be a good boy and keep all opinions to myself in this matter :)
 
I've tried to conceal my actual opinion on the subject matter (as distinct from my opinion of "whether we should follow ToC changes in general" or "whether any particular ToC change has been carried out well"), but anyone who rolled a 5 or higher on their insight check can probably guess what it is
 
@Kevin I guess. Then again one could argue that it's not that you don't prefer "she"; it's incorrect
 
I think I can get what you think from your star on the board XD
 
but as I said this is the least of the problem
And not a very practical problem on SO main. I guess chat could be a bit more involved than main.
 
12:50 PM
I agree with you about the magnitude of the problem, but I love arguing about minutae. It is known.
 
There's a comment I'll refrain from to not make either party mad :)
 
on a more technical note, I'll try figuring out whether the perceived insensitivity of my touchpad since my debian reinstall can be a real thing
I'm not sure if 1. it's software, 2. it's hardware, or 3. I'm just going crazy
 
I'm going to guess a combination of 1 and 3
But then again, aren't we all a little crazy?
 
I did find a "noise cancellation" setting on superuser, which is promising
 
I double-blame #1, since either drivers or hard-to-find peripheral settings are both culprits
 
12:54 PM
The weird part is that it's taps that don't register sometimes. Which also makes it hard to google because sensitivity is usually about moving the mouse
 
Could be some palm cancellation thing. I hate a trackpad that wouldn't register taps if you had too much hand on the pad.
also big yikes: just heard my boss say "we can't hire this other engineer we really need because we have too much management". Welps, time to find another job.
 
A while back I had some touchpad trouble (which IIRC was caused by a driver mismatch) and one thing that I found useful was the "heat map" application that showed exactly what points of the touchpad were being touched at the moment
 
Oops....that was meant for Slack. It can stay here tho
Kevin: that's kinda what I was talking about
 
The application was hidden deep within Program Files(x86), in the touchpad vendor's folder. Maybe you can find something similar.
 
@biggi_ I used to do that and the cursor would jump around, so I've stopped doing that
@Kevin maybe, thanks for the tip
The bad news is that I don't think I have a built-in for that. The good news is that I realized I can conjure unicode characters with a single button click (followed by typing the name, or parts of it). So I guess 🎉
 
1:07 PM
Tkinter needs to go away.
Burn all the things.
 
Remember to .pack() on a separate line~
If you do x = Entry(root).pack() you're going to have a bad time
 
tkinter rocks!
 
Yup I know that much at least. I dunno, it's just so weird compared to xml XD
I'm so used to wpf and doing hooks to capture events/etc. So much different
 
Tkinter has events too
 
I know. But it's not as easy as dragging a button, dropping it, right clicking and selecting "click event" and then doing my code XD
 
1:10 PM
This is true.
My very first language was Visual Basic and the one and only good thing about it was the nice drag-n-drop GUI wizard
 
Haha I sound like such an entitled millennial "why does my code not code for me?!?!?"
 
All programmers wish for better third party libraries. Except for the ones that have eschewed third party libraries entirely, and live in a primitive cabin in the woods
 
I'm going to write my own programming language called #winning and it can read your mind and code it all for you.
 
That would not work for me because it would find tons of empty strings
 
All programmers wish to write a program that writes all other programs. But since this would destroy the industry, a Doom Laser has been constructed on the moon in order to vaporize the hard drive of anyone that tries
 
1:20 PM
tries
 
Did anyone else hear a faint "ZOT" just now?
 
And my brain just took me down "Charlie Sheen's Winning Recipes"....can you imagine what that code would look like?
 
@Kevin nope. Definitely not faint.
 
It would take obfuscation to a whole new level. At any one time I have three useless threads running in addition to what I'm trying to do, one dedicated to white noise
 
Phew, thought that was just me :)
 
1:22 PM
There's at least one esolang that's designed to look like a recipe
 
Occasionally one will catch the GIL, make me mutter "heh", and then wanders off again
 
XD
Charlie Sheen just needs to write a langugage
Wonder what even happened to him after all his #winning stuff
But I digress...back to Tkinter!
 
biwinning*
 
....this is why a brain reading language wouldn't be good
if var is OMGLOOKATTHATSQUIRREL!!!!!
@roganjosh did you ever watch the songifythis charlie sheen?
 
1:25 PM
I don't believe I did
 
You're welcome.
 
"... borrow my brain and be like 'dude, can't handle it!'". Well, we agree on that much
 
Pretty much
 
stackoverflow.com/q/58329798/2336654 Given OP a day-ish to fix unclear question with non-working mcve
 
@AndrasDeak I suppose you could ask in U&L chat. It might be something you can set in xorg.conf, presuming your system uses xorg.
 
1:36 PM
I'm not there yet, I've yet to play with things I found here superuser.com/questions/290210/…
I'll try that or a dozen other google searches before resorting to chat :) I've just been busy since I found that
 
sorry to derail conversation earlier....winning is not python related :(
 
I've got a 3d vector, V, and I would like to choose a vector U that is perpendicular to V. There are an infinite number of such vectors, but I'd be happy with any one of them. Is there a nice cheap algorithm I can use here?
If V was two dimensional I could just do U.x = V.y; U.y = -V.x but I don't know if that generalizes to three dimensions
 
@Kevin cross product with (0,0,1) unless it's (0,0,1) itself
 
Yeah, I thought about cross product, but checking for (0,0,1) is a bit of a pain. If possible I'd like to avoid piecewise or conditional algorithms
 
If V.x == V.y == 0 (within tolerance) choose U = [1,0,0]. Else U = [...] oh.
I'm not sure you can do something without a conditional. You either rotate or reflect or project or something to construct the perpendicular vector, but there are edge cases for each which will fail
 
1:42 PM
It doesn't need to work on V = (0,0,0) btw
 
good news: every vector is perpendicular to that ;)
 
[mind blown .gif]
U = eval(input("Please enter a vector perpendicular to V:")), job's done
 
I can't come up with a method
the only branch-free solution on math.SE seems to use binary operation tricks to circumvent the conditional
hmm, there's another way: compute the polar coordinates of your vector and add 90 degrees to the polar angle
 
Polar coordinates are "plan B"
 
I'd rather take conditionals than polars
 
1:55 PM
I feel like there should be a branchless way to do this, because no vector is "privileged" under all frames of reference. It seems wrong that two observers should disagree about whether an algorithm would work on a particular vector just because they have different ideas about where i j and k are pointing
But I also agree with you that any rotation/reflection/projection strategy will always have an edge case. So if a branchless approach exists, it must do something fancier
 

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