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8:00 PM
FWIW I couldn't find any capitalized module names in the python 3 stdlib after a quick glance
 
What I meant to say, but did not actually type, was "if they had simultaneously fixed every module name and function name"
 
FWIW that's how I understood it
 
But, ok, credit where credit is due. Good job Python for uncapitalizing all module names in one go.
 
minor nerd snipe topic: determine whether there were any other modules that had to be renamed
 
DSM
I'm coming in late, but is anyone suggesting we should have fixed the whole stdlib during the jump? Because if so, they're right.
 
8:03 PM
yup, both of us are
 
DSM
Every time I write getLogger I die a little inside.
 
.format(both=(Kevin,Andras))
 
help("modules") is nominally useful there, but in practice a bunch of the libraries I have installed forgot to put in if __name__ == "__main__": guards so I get a good amount of weird stuff in stdout and also sometimes a few modal dialog boxes appear
 
find $site_packages -regex '.*/[A-Z][A-Za-z_]+'
 
that's also an option ^
 
8:04 PM
I didn't actually test that, and it doesn't include c modules, but it's close
 
DSM
And, what the heck, {:} is now an empty dict and {} the empty set. :-P
 
don't get carried away now:P
 
I would rather empty dict/set literals be removed
 
why?
if you remove the ambiguity, they're useful
 
Because of the above ambiguity
 
DSM
8:05 PM
I think Alex M. writes list() and dict() and set() because he finds them clearer.
 
well {:} and {} are no longer ambiguous (however confusing at first)
 
Considering how sets aren't used as much as dicts, I think {} is confusing
 
Here are the modules on my 2.7 install that contain uppercase characters:
['BaseHTTPServer', 'Bastion', 'CGIHTTPServer', 'Canvas', 'ConfigParser', 'Cookie', 'Dialog', 'DocXMLRPCServer', 'FileDialog', 'FixTk', 'HTMLParser', 'MimeWriter', 'PIL', 'Queue', 'ScrolledText', 'SimpleDialog', 'SimpleHTTPServer', 'SimpleXMLRPCServer', 'SocketServer', 'cPickle', 'StringIO', 'cProfile', 'Tix', 'cStringIO', 'Tkconstants', 'Tkdnd', 'Tkinter', 'UserDict', 'UserList', 'UserString', '_LWPCookieJar', '_MozillaCookieJar', 'tkColorChooser', 'tkCommonDialog', 'tkFileDialog', 'tkFont', 'tkMessageBox', 'tkSimpleD
I notice that the plurality of them involve tk. >_>
 
are those UserDict things KevinDicts in reality?
 
User* used to be their own modules?
 
8:08 PM
ah, so no
 
DSM
Did we just get a glimpse into secret Kevin modules?
 
quick someone think of a question to get Kevin to post his lowercase modules.
 
Before submitting that message, I thought "I wonder if I should be revealing my secret modules", then hit Enter anyway.
 
DSM
Bravery is a good habit to encourage in yourself.
 
The only modules I remember actually writing are geometry and animation, neither of which are in that list anyway
 
8:15 PM
cbg all!
Discussion about Tkinter has got me wondering, what is the current best libraries for making GUIs in Python?
 
user6845426
is there a best
 
@dipper I'd imagine not, hence the plural usage :)
I've made some in-house things in TKinter but it looks horrendously out of date which concerns me a bit if I'm making something for more general release
 
user6845426
Ive only looked at tkinter
 
user6845426
I've seen a few people mention kivy
 
Has anyone had any experiences with the new wxWidgets project: github.com/wxWidgets/Phoenix ?
 
user6845426
8:19 PM
Apparently good for mobile dev, works with touch displays
 
Just having a look at kivy now
Definitely looks like it can do more than TKinter
 
user6845426
Yeh?
 
user6845426
Might have a look at kivy now
 
I have to make a slightly-less-spartan-in-house in-house application for some non-technical people at work. My manager was slightly concerned about how TKinter looked
I don't think the look and feel of this matters too much but has given me a chance to spend time researching GUI options which is good
 
user6845426
tkinter looks plain, i'm not sure how much control you have over styling
 
8:42 PM
Cbg
 
in principle kivy makes creating more complex guis fairly easy
 
@dipper as far as I understand you don't have a ton of control over it without substantial effort
@AndrasDeak how about in practice?
 
I tried to write a very simple android app with, for my "two buttons altogether" design worked perfectly with it:P
and that's all my experience with it, which is the answer to your other question:D
 
:) ok
 
(I ended up writing the app in javandroid, but that's because of android)
 
user6845426
8:47 PM
I'm almost giving up training to follow this tutorial to make a neural net.
 
user6845426
Screw final year uni.
 
ironically, you'll need to train the neural net instead
 
user6845426
typo. Trying* xD
 
user6845426
I've trained it... just having trouble testing it
 
user6845426
And I can't find what the input format of the MNIST dataset it
 
8:50 PM
you've mentioned this before and I'm not sure I see why that would be hard to determine, in case you know what you're talking about precisely (I don't)
 
user6845426
who needs a degree eh
 
@MoinuddinQuadri \o cbg how goes it
 
user6845426
Yeah I've followed some online ebook and the author goes really indepth, it must just be my brain
 
DSM
Nov 1 '16 at 15:55, by DSM
Feb 3 '15 at 16:33, by DSM
These days whenever I think of writing a GUI for something I think "so how am I going to make this work remotely?" and then I decide I might as well go for a web interface anyhow. :-/
 
python on rails or bust
 
8:53 PM
@DSM yeah its a bit like that at times...
 
user6845426
Think someone just pointed out where I was going wrong with my matrix @AndrasDeak, I need to reshape to 1d array
 
user6845426
val_data = [np.reshape(x, (784, 1)) for x in roi[1]] that should be it right
 
Why are you asking me this here?
 
user6845426
sorry xD
 
DSM
9:07 PM
FWIW that reshape doesn't produce a 1D array.. the shape argument has two elements, and so it'll produce a 2D array.
 
welll the list comp will definitely lead to at least 2 dimensions
this will probably be 3d
 
DSM
Ehh, a list of 2d arrays is a list of 2d arrays, not a 3d array. :-P
 
ask numpy about that:D
I know, it won't have a type of numpy.ndarray, but still...for all intents and purposes it's compatible with a 3d array
 
DSM
Try multiplying it by 2. :-P
 
it will work fine (as long as my expectations correspond to the end result)
 
DSM
9:12 PM
That statement is admirably generic in how universally applicable it is. :-)
 
I couldn't make it any weaker:D
 
9:23 PM
If I have a file, where I do file.write() repeatedly, and then I print os.fstat(file.fileno()).st_size and it always prints 0, it does mean there is a problem in the writing write(), right?
 
I don't know what os.fstat().st_size does, but it's also possible that your write is being buffered, so you need to either flush the buffer or close the file (which will flush for you)
 
DSM
^^
 
flush the buffer means take it away and to not use it?
 
flush the buffer means flush the buffer
 
DSM
To be more specific, call file.flush()..
 
9:26 PM
I suggest googling something like "python flush file" and see what you find
 
Yeah I thought of doing that, I'm not familiarized with that term
 
that's why you should google to familiarize yourself
 
Yep
It helped and fixed the problem, thank you very much to both of you
 
no worries
Economics jargon halp! Is there (what is) a word for the the money that is being removed from gross salaries after which they become net salaries? I'm looking for the umbrella term that comprises taxes and other mandatory reductions...
they're called "contributions" in Hungarian but I'm sure the English version has nothing to do with this
 
user6845426
They're called contributions in the UK too
 
9:41 PM
no way D:
 
user6845426
Yeh
 
user6845426
I prefer to call it robbery though...
 
user6845426
well tax is a deduction but NI is a contribution
 
NI?
> In economics, gross means before deductions or expenses. The antonym is net, meaning after deductions.
I might go with deductions
 
user6845426
National Insurance
 
9:43 PM
thanks for the feedback:)
@dipper ah, I see
 
DSM
Late on a Friday -- time to go make a contribution of my own net revenue to a local Indian restaurant!
 
user6845426
@AndrasDeak it's about time I could offer help xD however little it is haha
 
DSM
Rhubarb for all!
 
rhubarb, DSM
@dipper we all help where we can;)
 
user6845426
Indian food <3
 
user6845426
9:47 PM
any* food
 
:D
if you want to praise the glory of food here, you're preaching to the choir
 
user6845426
haha!
 
although either there hasn't been a huge gastronomical discussion here in a while, or I just missed it
 
user6845426
I missed it too.. must of been eating
 
this ties in with my general impression of less regulars around for less time, recently
 
user6845426
10:05 PM
less regulars?
 
@dipper my impression is that several room regulars are here less than before, some of them I haven't seen for a longer while
 
I'm always watching
.......always
looks menacingly at Andras
 
D:
I'm not a bowl of poutine!
 
user6845426
Lurking
 
@AndrasDeak My meese are almost there. That will be the least of your worries
Andras, I looked up Hungarian moose and I got this as a result
please confirm
oh so now you disappear
 
user6845426
10:26 PM
xD
 
@idjaw you're welcome ^
sorry, I was busy with this masterpiece
we don't have no meese, so if we see one, we'll know it's a canuck migrant one
 
user6845426
10:44 PM
my neural network works <3<3
 
user6845426
pizza 4 all
 
\o/
aww now I see that my second attempt at the navy moose is botched in places
so much for my 20 minutes well spent
I did it really well, but then I had to resize the bazooka:(
@idjaw apparently that plane is nicknamed the Moose, so yeah, it's legit
 
11:08 PM
TIL that most SQLite table schemas have implicit row ids, so you don't have to add them :o
(most as in you can explicitly disable it and it's not added if you specify a separate PRIMARY KEY)
 
11:44 PM
I wrote this because I wanted to compare the same data to two seperate lists at once while being able to remove from them during the loop. From what I read you can just make a copy by adding [:] at the end? When i walk through all it does is seem to just look at one element then stop the loop.

http://pastebin.com/dexDMtpc
 
>>> t=[1,2,3]
>>> id(t)
139939673369928
>>> id(t[:])
139939673431624
"seem to just look at one element then stop the loop" -> you'll need to elaborate, or provide an MCVE
 
user6845426
cbg o/
 
cbg
 

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