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7:00 PM
@davidism They won't let me take shuriken on a plane :-(
 
wim
@MartijnPieters who is "we"? or should I just ask around for a Martian Peters
 
@wim cool! I'll be there sun - wed at the least.
@wim Me and a team mate.
 
@BhargavRao so cool
 
+1 for the handdranw circles ;)
 
7:02 PM
@MartijnPieters You and Guido? :P
 
I'll be there on Thursday for a Flask sprint table.
 
wim
Martijn works at dropbox?!
 
Wish I was 1) going to Pycon, and 2) lived in the path of the train
 
@BhargavRao Last I checked, Guido is an ex-teammate of mine, not a current teammate. ;-)
 
@WayneWerner perhaps "near" the path would be better than "in" :-P
 
7:03 PM
So it's Barry the FLUFL who's the other guy :D
 
@davidism in would be more convenient ;)
 
FRUFL and FLUFL together make a FrUitFuL combination ;)
 
wim
wonder if Raymond Hettinger will be there
 
lol. I wonder if anyone has actually watched the Hitler movie, or just seen tons of the Hitler reacts
 
I have.
One of the scariest movies I have seen.
(I mean "Schindler's List" kind or "Come and See" kind of scary, not Stephen King)
 
7:18 PM
I need to see it, I suppose... but... is it on Netflix? ;)
 
@MartijnPieters I would assume that you of all people would have an all-time pass:P
@davidism let me not comment on the obvious innuendos involving the generic avatars
 
I love these videos. These guys are insane.
Climbing up a 555 meter tall unfinished building without permission or ropes.
 
7:31 PM
lol. Good times
 
that editor has given me a vivid vimagination
 
not vivied?
Ah, the days when I used to write .NET code using ed because I hate Visual Studio
also wanted to learn ed, so there was that
 
Hi Guys, I am wondering if there is a super simple graphing library for python. I looked into matplotlib but it has so many dependencies. Is there something super duper simple for a newbie like me?
 
Of course, having only 2GB of RAM didn't really help me there.
@Dzhao you running Windows or Linux? On linux I just do python -m pip install matplotlib
I mean yeah it takes a while... but it's not that bad
 
windows
the only thing I'm worries about is that I heard it takes a while to import numpy
 
7:38 PM
What's your take on [mutability] vs [immutability]?
 
"a while" is relative. If you have a really slow machine, sure
 
@all, guys what do you personally prefer for crating a REST api? Flask or a bottle? I am always confused on what to use since new technologies seem to come out every year.
 
but once it's imported, it's imported. You don't have to worry about that again.
 
matplotlib.pyplot doesn't import numpy, matplotlib.pylab does
 
oh ok
 
7:40 PM
but you should use numpy anyway:P
 
so should i just open my comamnd prompt and do a pip install matplotlib
 
Flask is my favorite. I can't say I've done a ton with bottle though, so I can't speak to it's features
 
Flask or Bottle in a room where Flask devs sit 24/7
 
but I like Flask. And it's good enough to power a substantial portion of LinkedIn, AFAIK
 
I was looking on the matplotlib website and kinda irked that there were so many dependencies (I'm assuming i'll need to manually install all of these dependencies.)
 
7:41 PM
@summerNight both the things you named are 6+ years old
 
@Dzhao Nope. pip will install them for you.
 
that's not "every other year"
 
every other 6th year? ;)
 
@davidism, yes do not take my word literally, you know what I mean :P
 
7:41 PM
ok thank you guys
i'll do it
 
I have been using Flask all the way and a team member comes to me and starts blabbering about bottle, and I am like, what the heck!!
 
I assume that all technologies named after containers of liquid are functionally identical
 
wow, I did not know linkedin used Flask, I though linkedin was all scala and play framework backend
 
wim
linkedin on flask??? I doubt it
#citation needed
 
@Kevin In that case, I should start the mug framework. ;)
 
7:44 PM
Yeah, I don't think that's true.
 
well I was just going by what Wayne Werner said
 
wim
I imagine flask would fall over and poop its pants for a website that scale
 
so in those cases, the python fallback plan would be to use Django?
 
wim
💩💩💩
 
Actaully, yeah LinkedIn is using it for stuff.
 
7:46 PM
maybe for smaller modules
 
wim
"stuff" == some microservices ?
 
Trying to remember the name of the employee who was advocating it.
She gave a talk about how they were using it at a PyCon.
@wim you mean literally a thing Flask was designed for? Yes, probably, that's a normal reason to use something.
 
wim
yes
 
Ultimately though, it's more about the WSGI server than the actual framework, assuming we're just talking about Python frameworks.
Flask can scale just fine.
 
wim
I don't think that has been proven in the real world
 
7:48 PM
Ok
 
wim
don't get me wrong, I love flask
 
Goddammit. I try to ask a question about text decodng, and people immediately miss the point.
 
Yeah, god really has damned it. Too bad.
 
user559633
LinkedIn uses Java for their stack. Maybe they're using Flask for internal systems or other APIs
 
@inspectorG4dget apparent discrepancy resolved in the other room ;) Just a Java syntax thing.
 
7:49 PM
@tristan *LinkedIn
 
user559633
thanks ;)
 
wim
@user2357112 when a guy has 104x as much rep as me, I think carefully before answering his question ... :)
 
Wait, I thought linkedin uses scala migrating their java code over to scala
and Twitter too
 
I really don't keep up on the website/programming language relationship tabloids.
 
user559633
 
7:51 PM
Cbg
 
user559633
looks like they use whatever does the needful
 
yeah I was gonna say the same
 
I tend to keep track of companies like LinkedIn and Airbnb, they generally have good tech blogs (as long as you take them pushing their own OSS with a pinch of salt)
 
She's the LinkedIn person doing Flask/Python stuff.
 
7:53 PM
Well, here's a reference for LinkedIn and Flask: books.google.com/…
 
wim
@user2357112 what is your data like? is reading by lines sufficient?
 
I just recall reading a post a while ago that LinkedIn had several hundredKLOC in Flask apps
 
user559633
man. these part couple weeks have been nothing but obligations and responsibility. being an adult sucks
 
Hi guys, how do I use pip to install matplot lib on windows?
still not sure how to use the command line
 
@tristan IKR? How do you even adult? It's the worst.
 
7:54 PM
well do you have pip installed @Dzhao?
 
adulting is so hard. I just want to play Lego and eat peanut butter
 
yes
 
user559633
@WayneWerner i bought a car and apparently that's a whole couple days of paperwork and process, never mind having to find a place for it to sleep at night
 
er wait maybe not I just got my computer wiped
 
@Dzhao does python work for you? E.g. you'll probably have something like C:\Users\Dzhao>python
 
7:55 PM
so whats wrong with pip install matplotlib?
 
user559633
garlic
 
user559633
@Dzhao if you don't even know if you have pip installed, go do your own research for a day before asking again in here
 
Crap just realized my computer was wiped a few weeks ago and with that I think pip might also have been removed
 
if that works then you can easily do python -m pip install matplotlib at the prompt
 
Ok that's probably why this isn't working haha
 
7:56 PM
or you could google :P
 
It saying "pip isn't a command" or whatever wasn't a clue?
 
@RobertGrant maybe the pc was confused
 
python should include pip as out-of-the-box package manager
like node.js does
 
user559633
tips on how to get out of a mental funk?
 
@tristan Gin.
 
7:57 PM
@wim: As long as I can read those lines from the end of the file without reading the whole thing, it should be fine.
 
It does include pip.
 
Come to Cheltenham and we can get drunk on Gin.
 
@tristan =/ I'm there too man
 
I thought tristan is a vodka guy now
 
@tristan I go for a walk. Do something that is not computers.
 
7:57 PM
well I am on 3.4 and I am pretty sure I installed pip manually
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd if i didn't have that stupid car thing to be responsible for and taxes to file extensions on, i'd be heading to the airport right now
 
mow the gorram lawn
 
user559633
and :/ @idjaw
 
user559633
i'm a whiskey man by trade, but i've been known to know how to do a vodka or two and you can't spell "i'm in" without "gin"
 
7:58 PM
I really want to be done with student loans so it's pretty much just house payments to worry about
 
I am a whiskey + coke guy by trade. I simply hate what alcohol tastes like :P
 
Ahhhhh student loans.
 
@Ffisegydd keep on keepin on. It's the only way I've found.
 
Rhubarb all \o
 
user559633
i found out that two of my cool features from my side project are now implemented at competitors, so it's just like watching a sand castle and my blueprints slowly get destroyed by the tidal force of corporations
 
7:59 PM
Oops - that one for @tristan, the message scrolled just as I hit reply.
 
user559633
:)
 
;( my stomach can't stand liquor
 
So I shouldn't just "keep on keepin on"?
@AnttiHaapala How did you survive childhood in Finland?
 
You can too, fizzy. It's generic advice.
:D
 
@summerNight Strangely enough I read 'coke' as 'cocaine'. I say strangely, because I don't drink alcohol, or (often) coke.
 
wim
8:00 PM
@user2357112 so you have an easy unix solution, as far as I can see, use tail to read lines in reverse order
 
and never cocaine ;)
 
@tristan that sucks, sorry.
 
@tristan ah sorry to hear that man :(
 
user559633
you know what they say, liquor before beer, you're in the clear. liquor before beer, keep the photos off flickr
 
8:01 PM
@Ffisegydd That depends. Do you keep calm and carry on?
 
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino Son I'm British. We invented that. Literally.
 
It is a bummer when the corporate machine's road roller is headed towards you.
 
user559633
we literally invented keeping calm
 
@Ffisegydd I used to have a higher tolerance
 
@Ffisegydd But can you mind the gap?
 
wim
8:01 PM
I am assuming you have a seekable input here, which tail relies on
 
That's a big fear of mine
 
@wayne
 
user559633
@JRichardSnape yeah. the only consolation is that they did a shite version of what i've implemented, but that hardly matters when they're alexa < 250s
 
Coca Cola
 
Well, yes. I suspect the other pair would cause a lot more issues ^_^
(though I'm equally sure there are quite a few people indulging in that paring >_>)
 
user559633
8:04 PM
coke and liquor? you mean the miami special?
 
@tristan
 
@wim: Does tail actually do Unicode? I see one version's documentation mentioning UTF-8 and UTF-16 support, but it doesn't seem to be a standard thing.
 
which coke?
 
user559633
@summerNight
 
user559633
you can type words after the @ mention
 
8:06 PM
haha, there you go I was like this thing is too responsive for me :P
 
@tristan how?
 
user559633
@davidism
 
oh I see
 
user559633
i don't know, but it's been mentioned by the old gods and the new
 
@guys
@cut it out
 
8:06 PM
@@
 
@idjaw that's a moderator superping
 
user559633
@_@
 
@tristan time to change your name to _@
 
8:07 PM
I guess the old gods knew it all, I come from a civilization where Gods smoke POT and we worship them :P
man our gods are hippies :P
 
user559633
is that an acronym?
 
What does POT stand... argh, tristan'd!
 
user559633
POT = Premonition of Things
 
It's clearly Positional Orthostatic Tachycardia
 
8:09 PM
@tristan there is a verb in front of the word POT that explains it all, how could you miss?
 
user559633
SWaaS: Sky Wizardry as a Service
 
user559633
@summerNight man idk i'm not a strong reader get off my case
 
POT = President of The
 
@JohanLarsson thanks for the link, but no.. it's just too "nothing" for me..
:P
 
:)
I listened to the full three hour thing
 
8:12 PM
Seems pretty similar to what I get on Brain.fm
 
@JohanLarsson that soundtrack is awesome!!! I remember looping through the first one for a while
 
so is flask slowly killing django? why would I choose django over flask if flask is so easy to work with
 
the game itself is pretty fantastic too
 
wim
no. flask and django are for different things
there is room for both I don't believe either can kill the other
 
ok never tried it, last game I played was duke nukem when it was new :)
 
8:16 PM
yeah that was quite a while ago :)
 
pyramid
off-topic, resource request
 
user559633
;)
 
you were faster
 
Django is more opinionated that Flask (by far). It's designed so you can do things now. Flask is designed to let you design your app how it needs to be designed.
 
user559633
girlfriend said that i can decorate my home office AND I QUOTE "however I want"
 
8:19 PM
oh wow, all the possibiities!
 
If you're already going to be doing Django-y things, then yeah, use Django, because it's probably going to put a bunch of stuff there that you would have to do anyway
 
@tristan Bewbs? Goku? Goku with bewbs?
 
user559633
going 1980s with neon and glass tables
 
wim
I haven't seen anything as nice as DRF for flask
 
@tristan nunchaku fights it is, then
 
8:20 PM
@tristan that doesn't sound like something someone who knows you well would let you do. Suspicious.
 
@wim eve?
 
wim
on the other hand, django has become a big slow moving beast and bugs take ages to get fixed
 
user559633
@davidism oh, i meant Posturepedic-tan, my pillow girlfriend
 
I think it's built on Flask anyway...
 
@tristan how romantic
 
user559633
8:21 PM
but yeah, but i repeated "HOWEVER?" and stopped listening
 
@WayneWerner yeah, it is, that's a good example too
 
@wim I totally agree with your last comment
 
To be fair, I have only tried eve for a moment, and I have nearly zero experience with DRF. I think I may have answered or at least commented on a SO question about it within the last week or two
 
See that what's I call a nightmare, today I saw the eve website and I am impressed (let's say) but how do I know I can support that in production two years later?
 
You don't.
 
8:22 PM
Is there a difference between that and anything else? lol
 
@summerNight how can anyone know anything, really? Better to just sit in a dark cave and stare at a wall.
3
 
You don't know that any library will be here in two years time.
 
Though, at least with OSS at least you know you can support it...
at least if you've cloned the library ;)
 
wim
lmao @davidism
have a star
 
user559633
software you never write is 100% bug free
 
8:23 PM
ugh. Last job they baked one-off nightly builds of libraries into our app
oh, and lost the source.
 
I have used Django REST framework and comparing it to flask atleast with the usability its much much better
 
It's like the saying in ultimate frisbee: the ground is always open.
 
oh, and that nightly build was a magic unicorn so building against the current version broke everything. And it was Java, so there's that.
@davidism hah. I like that.
@summerNight "it" referring to flask or DRF? ~_^
 
Flask :)
 
There was a DRF Kickstarter - you'd hope it'd be better than that
 
8:26 PM
> <mitsuhiko> untitaker, davidisms: we could just archive all issues
> <mitsuhiko> and let people reopen them
> <mitsuhiko> i would not be opposed to that
> <mitsuhiko> otherwise it will be impossible to clean this up
> <davidism> that would be really cathartic :-)
 
wim
DRF is excellent and the code is beautiful
 
wim
I'm looking at eve now and see some nasty stuff ... some bare try/except ... lots of isinstance calls ...
 
@davidism we should do the same with the close vote queue
 
user559633
i wouldn't mind chipping in on the flask backlog if there's something i can do to help
 
wim
8:28 PM
'unit' tests testing several different things
 
@davidism I'll just quickly copy them so I can reopen them all
 
@tristan go for it
I've basically killed the backlogs for MarkupSafe and itsdangerous
not as glamorous, but they hadn't been looked at for years
 
@wim Ew. Of course, the author was not originally a Python/Flask dev, AFAIK
at least IIRC. He was on a podcast that I listened to a while ago
 
@davidism what about the flask-alembic backlog? :)
 
Man, I love the monthly 'Microsoft patch night' emails.
Why not just create an invitation and have that added to everyone's calendars, guys?
 
8:32 PM
@RobertGrant I really need to rewrite the entire thing to use Alembic 0.8, which is not an exciting prospect.
 
@RobertGrant I saw you
 
I'll probably end up doing it once I'm on a Flask project full time again.
 
user559633
I'm still pretty sure that I'm not using sqlalchemy correctly :/
 
who is?
 
wim
I could not help but to revisit slhck's question stackoverflow.com/q/36455104/674039
now I think my solution is guaranteed to terminate , bug bounty for anyone who can break it !!
 
8:39 PM
Guys as python experts what is your choice of python IDE? or the good'ol notepad still handy? :P
 
pycharm
it still sucks tho
but all the alternatives suck even more
 
I still use Vim
 
pycharm is still buggy tho
and JetBrains never seems to be reading the bugtracker
 
wim
what @AnttiHaapala said
 
8:43 PM
instead of fixing usability bugs they've just implementing more features like "ok now we need to support x, y, z"
 
Yeah I like pyCharm too
 
PyCharm is the best we've got, it's really baffling what they're doing with all the money I'm throwing at them though.
 
wim
pycharm is the best even though it's made by java weenies
 
I don't agree with those vim cons. Configuration isn't particularly hard and "Not Beginner Friendly" and "Steep Learning Curve" mean the same thing.
 
I would like to have something that can throw my code directly to the REPL, I think pyCharm has this implemented (kindof) but its does not work right
 
8:44 PM
notebooks
 
user559633
@QuestionC i don't think those two things mean the same thing and configuration is objectively harder than farting around in sublime
 
@QuestionC You can be beginner friendly but have a steep learning curve to master.
 
well you can do that even in IDLE if you run with python -i
 
I normally go for intelliJ with the pyCharm plugin
 
user559633
i just troll SO with my puppet account for snippets that i can copy and paste
 
8:47 PM
@Ffisegydd Like Go or Chess.
 
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino Indeed Go was actually what I was thinking of.
It's like WE'RE TWO HALVES OF THE SAME WHOLE.
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/36582605/… how to do global variables in XML
 
@summerNight you can kind of do the inverse with IPython.
 
@AnttiHaapala I kind of had a wonderful question come to my mind yesterday, I desperately wanted to write comments in a JSON file
:P
 
8:53 PM
{"@comment": "here goes!"}
 
wait is that supported ?
 
It won't turn into a variable when de-jsonified
 
of course it is just another key...
 
I mean, Python json.load will still read it, but you could easily filter it out
 
8:54 PM
but usually many things only test/get the known keys in an object
 
yeah I have a javascript UI tied to a flask backend and I wanted my JSON to be pretty consistent across
 
Yeah, so if you sent {"@comment": "nothing to see here, move along", "name": "Wayne", "cabbage": "Python"} and then JSON.parse (that's the code, right?)'d it
and then posted that object back across
pretty sure you'd get {"name": "Wayne", "cabbage": "Python"}
(like, if you were using backbone or something)
Pretty sure that would work
welp. Time to mow the lawn. Goodbye, grass. And rhubarb to all
 
9:12 PM
Thanks see ya
 
wim
9:30 PM
any sublimetext users here ?
 
9:42 PM
Once upon a time. I can give your question a shot @wim
 
Wow, actually interesting python question: stackoverflow.com/questions/36584466/…
 
@tzaman but deep down it's a math question
or at least first it's a math question
then we can discuss implementation:)
 
not really, the math answer is both conjugates
the implementation is what's picking one over the other
 
yes, but I don't think OP understands the math
neither does the first commenter
"wolfram alpha says they should both be 0.5i"
 
Does anyone know how to rotate the x-axis in Pandas? It looks like they updated the library, and so this solution no longer works stackoverflow.com/questions/23964236/…
(axis_test_x) is not an element
 
9:55 PM
does pandas have good manuals? have you looked at them if it changed?:)
I didn't catch that, but it was an honest question
some libraries have sucky manuals, others pretty decent ones
 
@AndrasDeak, to clarify, I'm trying to use ggplot
 
I looked at ggplot's online "Docs"
I'm not impressed
 
Yeah, they look terrible
 
it's almost as off-putting as that of plotly
have you considered using matplotlib instead?:D
that has awesome manuals and great users on SO
 

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