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3:09 PM
I have to write a little bio for the Pallets website. What should I put as my role in the project? "Maintainer" is so boring.
 
"Supreme overseer"
 
Maybe "lesser overseer", don't want to show my hand too early.
"Hammer wielder"
 
@Kevin So, they are sending your team into a different country?
 
Ship us all to East Kerbleckistan with a 50% pay cut to reflect the cheaper cost-of-living? I sure hope not.
Outside of my paranoid fantasies, we'll probably stay right where we are.
 
Oh, davidism, you're one of the main people who works on the sopy site, right? My new name breaks the login. :P I get 500 errors constantly.
 
3:14 PM
File a bug
Fix the bug
 
The whole user system needs a fix. ;_;
I have like four different projects I need to work on right now.
 
So Morgan, if you could get that fixed by monday, that would be great. </Lumberg>
 
Hey, point me at the code base and I'll take a look.
 
I'm on phone answering duty today, so it's gonna be a boring day.
 
3:19 PM
@davidism There's something wrong with user system on sopy?
 
I'm pretty sure you can't log in if your user account was pulled in before you registered.
And then there's Morgan's problem.
 
Once I finish this corporate training, I won't have anything to do... Maybe I'll try to work on my canonical "how to put text wherever" draft.
 
I'm not too sure what you mean by that. I might be able to take a look at it though, with steps to reproduce the problem
 
I want to end it by showcasing the versatility of GUIs over the console. I'd like a realistic use-case that I can write <20 LOC for, without seeming too contrived.
 
Some other actions, like adding people to the editors group, pulls in the so user model without associating a user account.
 
3:22 PM
And right now all my code samples just print "Hello, world!" at x=5 y=10, and I'd like to do something a bit flashier, but not anything that would confuse the target audience (new to early-intermediate)
Maybe something text-adventurey. Newbies like those.
 
Or a program to repair phones!
 
I just barfed in my mouth a little.
 
I don't like writing this bio. Everybody's going to see it. This is also why I keep putting off making a blog.
 
I know that feeling. I had to fill in a 200 character "about me" box for a thing a month ago, and I still haven't gotten around to it.
 
I'm currently having this exact problem...I'm glad we are in this together
 
DSM
3:33 PM
See, you should've been astronomers. "Recovering astronomer" works in every situation.
 
I want to advertise that I'm smart (which I assume is a typical impulse among all STEM types), but I can't just say I'm smart because that would be insufficiently clever and therefore self-defeating.
So I need to leave that fact out and write the rest of the bio smartly so that the reader can determine it implicitly.
Same tune different verse for "I like to write interesting things"
I should have been a lumberjack... "I can wrestle a bear to the ground with my enormous muscles" doesn't have any catch-22s like this.
 
DSM
I used to have this problem at parties. Always introduced myself as an astronomer because then they told me stories about eclipses and meteor showers and asked me space questions. If I introduced myself as a physicist they'd say "oh, you must be smart" and then take a (virtual) step back.
 
how is everyone still sick after 2+ weeks? I don't get how these humans work
 
Do these humans have kids?
 
DSM
Are these humans missing immune-system-related organs?
 
3:41 PM
jeez corvid. MCVE. Come on
 
DSM
Heh.
 
Natural selection doesn't weed out people that get the sniffles, so it's free to spread unimpeded.
Does he mean "I changed open("output.txt", "w") to open("output.bin", "w")? But then why would that increase file size?
Is there a bin Linux command I don't know about or something?
 
@idjaw Minimal Coughing Virus Example?
 
3:59 PM
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino that works. We need to understand what kind of strain we are dealing with.
 
4:09 PM
npm added a new policy after that whole fiasco
 
@Kevin in general now natural selection just weeds out poor people
 
4:38 PM
Well, Windows just got a LOT better.
Bash is coming to Windows!
 
hmm interesting
 
I don't like change!
 
user559633
Can't wait to use my exploits against Windows if that actually ends up happening.
 
user559633
@idjaw That policy is so shitty.
 
user559633
@corvid thoughts on RCN vs XFinity?
 
4:49 PM
My thoughts are that I pay my roommate to do the thinking for me because I am lazy
 
user559633
haha, cool. didn't know if one was known to be terrible
 
They're all terrible haha
 
I am coming out of a nightmarish experience trying to cancel XFinity actually.
I think it's cancelled now, but I haven't gotten the check yet. Took over half a year and I think 4 visits.
So, I dunno what RCN is, but it sounds good better.
 
A trick that used to work was, you'd give a cover story that makes it physically impossible for you to use their service. ex. "I'm moving to Antarctica" or "I have one month to live".
I think these days they just say "sorry to hear that, would you like to transfer your service to a family member or friend?"
If that happens, I suggest trying "my family is dead and you're my only friend, Comcast Service Representative."
 
If it's comcast, the only possible way to cancel service is to blow up the earth.
Because otherwise you're screwed.
 
5:00 PM
To defeat the comcast, you must become the comcast.
 
user559633
You just go in person. And try to slip $5 and some loose change into the representative's hand repeatedly throughout your conversation
 
cbg all
 
@tristan it really is. The great decisions just keep on coming. I wonder if this decision will stick. It's really really crappy. It's going to accumulate so much garbage.
 
user559633
5:15 PM
@idjaw well, also, it means you upload something and no longer are in control of the content
 
I'm reminded of the "this is mine" picture usually posted in here
 
@tristan yeah, I just read their own statement. I wonder how long it takes them to come to the conclusion that you can manage your own open source code...
 
user559633
"because our users are sweet summer children, we have created a safe space"
 
Genuinly don't know what I can do for this answer now. Whadayathink, delete or keep it up?
 
It's cruddy not getting an explanation on a downvoted answer. This happened to me a couple days ago.
explanation seems fine to me
 
6:32 PM
@PM2Ring awesome, thank you:) This was my hunch after your [<-plural] comments, just wanted to make sure (and yeah, I didn't check myself:( )
 
recbg by the way
last time my connection went black with anything SO-related
 
third time today :D
 
then I had to leave from work:P
then stuff
 
@AndrasDeak where're you from ?
 
6:34 PM
@MarkoMackic Hungary
 
how's to live there ?
 
umm...I got used to it:P
never lived anywhere else:D
One issue is that it's full of Hungarians, otherwise it's not so bad
 
aren't you a Hungarian ?
 
I am
we're the worst
afk a bit, coffee:)
 
see ya
 
6:51 PM
I'm back
 
Wow... About half of my friends just got laid off today (different company - mine went through layoffs awhile back)... Rough times in the oil industry. I knew it was going to be a lot of folks, but I didn't expect it to quite this many.
Expect to see an influx of geologists into the software side of things...
At least in Texas, anyway
 
Yeah, I heard something about some leaked emails in the oil industry or something?
 
I haven't heard about that -- these were layoffs that were announced awhile back, but just notified at the individual level today
BP
 
Oh, gotcha.
Wasn't sure if they were related.
 
There have certainly been a lot of scandals / bad management brought to light in some companies lately
Ah, hadn't seen that one
Not surprising, though
 
6:58 PM
Yeah, not at all.
 
DSM
@JoeKington: things have been really rough back in Alberta too.
 
Yeah, any and all oil-centric towns are being hit hard lately.
Tax revenue in a lot of places has dropped pretty significantly, after being high for a decade or so.
Houston's certainly in that boat, though it's less oil-focused than it used to be
 
@JoeKington I have to confess, your avatar somehow always made me assume that you're British:)
 
Heh! She's quite the dignified pup :)
 
she's cute!
 
DSM
7:00 PM
I wonder how long AB will stay sales tax-free. Oil isn't our only industry, but oil revenue papered over a lot of problems.
 
She's quite a charmer! Every time I walk her past a restaurant, people try to bring food out to her because they think she's cute... It's actually a bit of a problem :)
@DSM - Exactly. At least in the US (and I assume elsewhere), most oil towns tend to have very low income and sales taxes, etc. It works while things are good, but doesn't take much to destabilize things.
 
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino I got several characters out of your approach to codegolf typewriter problem
 
@AnttiHaapala Oooo, nice!
 
@AndrasDeak I see how it is :p
 
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino issubset is also <=, which is __le__
s/several/2/ :d
 
7:03 PM
Hey, I'll take it.
 
@Programmer well.....your avatar is special too:P
 
Also, go watch Turobo Kid if you haven't, it's on Netflix.
 
why netflix isn't available from bosnia
 
@MarkoMackic it's just become available here...
I know that doesn't help you at all:D
 
7:05 PM
It's probably available on other things too, I'm not going to enumerate them every time.
 
vinyl records?
 
i know, but i've remembered trying to watch something on netflix a couple months ago ?
 
@MarkoMackic why would you do that?
 
what ?
 
don't tell me you have enforced copyright laws in BH:P
 
7:08 PM
lol no
i mean , they exist
but no one respects them
 
yeah, that was my hunch
 
@MarkoMackic Just like everywhere else on the planet
 
heh:D
@Carpetsmoker I'm afraid your neighbours are less understanding about the subject
 
yeah, we still think other countries are more sophisticated
 
@AndrasDeak Germany?
 
DSM
7:09 PM
@Morgan: you up for some bytes saved?
 
@Carpetsmoker for instance, yes
 
How is Germany different?
 
Germans are especially badgered for using bittorrent
I think I was told that it's even legal to download stuff in The Netherlands?
 
DSM
In wargame, is if x in range(0,200,int(r[0]*2)) just meant to figure out whether x is a multiple if int(r[0]*2)?
 
7:10 PM
I'm not sure, but I have a vague memory of this
 
@DSM Yeah, it's left over from an old approach.
 
@AndrasDeak Not anymore. It changed last year
 
@Carpetsmoker oh:(
 
DSM
Just use %int(r[0]*2) (==0, or however the negations make sense.)
 
@DSM So x%int(r[0]*2)==0? I thought I had tried that and it didn't work. I might be remembering wrong.
Nope, I'm remembering wrong. That works.
 
7:13 PM
maybe you didn't have int() back then?
you had to use int because of the range
 
I "pirate" stuff as a matter of civil disobedience, as the current copyright laws are nothing short of batshit crazy. I wish more "pirate" sites and such would take a stand on this rather than weasel their way out of it by claiming they "only link to files" and whatnot.
 
DSM
Then you can switch back to in-place ops for things like b[4]=b[4]-
 
@Carpetsmoker And can you get fined or jailed for your disobedience? In practice?
 
DSM
@Morgan: and then, 1/4*stuff == stuff/4.
 
@AndrasDeak Of course. Rosa Parks got arrested. But the excuses are even worse and aren't preventing fines either.
 
7:15 PM
@DSM Ooooo, nice.
 
@Carpetsmoker that's why I asked "in practice", in the NL.
 
@AndrasDeak I think the "Dutch RIAA" has prosecuted some individuals, but it's rare and mostly just to scare folk
 
The grass that stands tallest is cut the most.
 
I pirate stuff because I'm cheap. :D Plus, it's easier to have everything in Plex than try to search through Netflix/Hulu/Amazon Prime/etc.
 
Which is to say, maybe there are lots of pirate sites that take a principled stand, but which quickly get taken down because the feds have an easier case to make compared to the "we're just linking to stuff" crowd
 
7:18 PM
@Kevin :(
 
The problem is that the majority of the population are "pirates" − if the majority of the population is doing something that's against law, then perhaps something is wrong with the law, and not with the people (crazy idea, I know!)
 
well, we're talking about Dutch people, right? ;)
 
Well the users citizenry can go ahead and make a pull request vote their interests whenever they're ready.
 
@AndrasDeak Is there a difference here between Dutch people and the rest of the world?
 
7:21 PM
nah, I don't think so
(Although I know a single Dutch person and he's odd. Probably an outlier.)
 
@Kevin I can vote next week about something with a referendum about some treaty the EU wants to do with Ukraine...
Most useless vote ever; what the hell am I supposed to vote? I have two weeks to become an expert on Ukraine and Ukrainian foreign policy
@AndrasDeak How exactly is being odd a bad thing?
 
DSM
@Morgan: ==0 can become <1..
 
The Dutch get specifically name dropped in the Zen of Python so I can only assume they're exceptional people.
 
@Carpetsmoker you're probably taking me way more seriously than you should
I only mingle with odd people
 
People see you tomorrow :D
 
7:26 PM
@MarkoMackic good night
if that's what you mean
 
yeah :D
 
ok:)
 
DSM
Those prints look like they could also be compressed.
 
I am in love with python
and i have been working on it for just one day
 
7:36 PM
@user3561871 Ah, another soul harvested.
 
@Carpetsmoker haha I guess! There's still a few things i don't know how to do though like in java we can do


board[index]++;

but no to sure how to do that in Python.
 
board[index]+=1?
 
DSM
We just write board[index] += 1, which works in lots of C-like languages.
 
side-effects are the devil
 
Would decrement be -=1 then?
 
7:38 PM
yup
and it generalizes, board+=[seed] will append seed to it
since board + [seed] will perform list concatenation on the two lists
 
I see! ok ok
 
think about what multiplication does to a list, then:)
and remember that I told you that you don't need a loop to replicate a list
 
DSM
@Morgan: with a bit of tweaking I think you could combine your r and b branches.
 
I have another question, indentation error is my most common error. Is indentation something you just pick up after programming in python for a while
or do you guys just use an ide to keep it in check?
 
7:41 PM
IIRC ++ was added to C because that could utilize some native instruction on the PDP-11 and made programs a bit faster
 
@DSM Yeah, probably. Maybe something with switching them based on which one is active.
 
DSM
Except for the print, they seem identical under r->b and b->r.
 
Yeah, they are.
 
@user3561871 - It's definitely best to configure your IDE/editor to use indentation correctly and automatically. E.g. in vim, soft tab stops, expandtabs, etc. That way if you type if blah:<enter>, you'll start with a line indented with four spaces. That having been said, it becomes natural pretty quickly.
Just don't mix tabs and spaces
 
@JoeKington I should really do that
 
7:44 PM
(Or, rather, dont' use tabs at all -- configure your editor to replace them with spaces)
 
I'm always indenting by hand, no issues with it
but it is more convenient that ipython indents automagically:)
 
DSM
In modern Python you don't have to worry about mixing, I think -tt is on by default now.
 
Huh, didn't realize that default had changed
 
@DSM In Python 3, yes, but not for Python 2.7
 
DSM
I wish I could figure out how to turn off autoinsertion of the closing punctuation in jupyter notebooks. :-(
 
7:44 PM
Either way, best not to mix, just for diff/git's sake
 
DSM
@Carpetsmoker: I said "modern". :-)
 
@DSM - Yeah, that drives me nuts as well
@AndrasDeak - If you want examples on the vim side, I'd be happy to share my .vimrc
 
DSM
I'm sure that if all my tools did it, I'd be used to it. But it's the only one which does, so I'm always forgetting.
 
@DSM Shrug ... yeah, unfortunately lots of stuff is still Python 2 by default :-/
 
@JoeKington thanks, I think I'll get myself to look into it first, when I've gathered some willpower;)
but I might find you with this offer later, thank you!
 
DSM
7:47 PM
@Carpetsmoker: I guess it depends on what domain you're working in. Nothing I use on a daily basis is 2 only.
 
Yeah, it's been a while since I've found anything that's 2 only that I needed.
 
@JoeKington is there a prefer IDE? I have been using Atom for a while now and enjoy it.
 
@DSM Most of the stuff I do with Python are random scripts/programs with need to be run by random people (i.e. my open source projects, some freelance work)... So I try to make everything work with both Python 2 and 3 to avoid problems...
 
@AndreasDeak - Obsessively configuring vim is one of the best methods of procrastination :)
 
I use PyCharm.
I love it.
 
7:48 PM
@user3561871 - It's really personal preference. Stick with what you like.
 
I'll probably switch to Python 3 support only once Ubuntu sets Python 3 as the default Python (since that's the most common Linux)
 
@JoeKington sorry, I already have SO for that role:D
 
@AndrasDeak I do both!
 
I've spent an unreasonable amount of time configuring vim
 
and I'm afraid to make it more convenient: one day I might end up not being able to use those features, and I'll feel blind and vulnerable:(
And it will take...like...*minutes*...to reconfigure
 
7:51 PM
I have to admit, I feel like I'm stumbling around in the dark using "bare" vim on a new machine. I've done it enough I know which settings my muscle memory expects to have set, but it's still a bit weird.
 
I will say, I've started using vimium, and it's amazing.
 
One of the problems with excessive configuration is that no one can use your Vim except you. For example I always got confused when I one of my coworker's Vim install because he had so many mappings and whatnot that were nonstandard
(My vimrc isn't that crazy)
 
@Carpetsmoker they should just use emacs, then:P
 
@AndrasDeak evil mode is pretty nice
 
So I come across a question that was asked because they can't comment on another question. And it was asked pretty well except for the explanation that they can't comment. Then another user posts a comment as an answer, with an explanation that they can't comment. :-|
 
DSM
7:54 PM
davidism is not impressed
 
sooo meta
 
Aww, downvoting that answer messed up my nice rep of 27272
 
DSM
You'll be at 27372 soon enough. ;-)
 
It's just not the same
 
DSM
28282 isn't so far away either!
 
7:57 PM
@Carpetsmoker - It's a security feature for experienced vim users :)
 
@JoeKington I think I am missing the joke?
 
DSM
I feel horrible for feeling this way, but I have a bunch of stuff I want to take home from the office, and a large and politically-significant funeral has the streetcar taking an inconvenient detour. :-/
 
@Carpetsmoker - Oh, sorry - It was in response to :29650607
Blerg, that didn't link
@Carpetsmoker - The "security feature" was in response to this
 
Can python do switch statements or is there a different way to do it?
 
@user3561871 really, you couldn't google that?
 
8:07 PM
@user3561871 It can't do them as such, but you can do most of it with a dictionary.
 
"python switch statement" brings up some good results
 
def f(x):
    return {
        'a': 1,
        'b': 2,
    }.get(x, 9)
 
yes, that's one of those results
 
DSM
Oh, I just saw an asciinema link for the first time! Kind of fun to watch someone else type.
 
@user3561871 Personally, I prefer to just write if [..] elif [..etc..]. If the condition if expensive, you can store that in a variable
I find that easier to read than "clever tricks" like that
(But both methods are fine as such)
 
8:16 PM
I think it depends on what you're doing. There are times where switching on a dictionary is easier to read.
For example, I'm working on a script to import data from one of a ton of different sources, so I have an import_functions dict full of function references. So I can do import_function = import_functions[import_source] and then just call import_function wherever I need it.
 
DSM
The more uniform the content of the switch branches is, the more likely I am to use a dictionary.
 
🐍
7
 
8:29 PM
Ooh, err, nice snake. Evening all.
 
cbg
 
Night-cabbage, JRS.
 
Night cabbage indeed. In fact, almost signing off cabbage
Yup. That will do for me. Rhubarb
 
DSM
Rhubarb for JRS!
 
Night-rbrb for JRS.
 
DSM
8:49 PM
@Neal: Yankees: 6, Mets: 10. I was surprisingly invested in the outcome..
 
Does this - 🇺🇸 - show up as a flag for anyone?
 
DSM
Is there a country which uses two rectangles as its flag?
 
there's a set of unicode characters that's supposed to render as the flag for the two letter country code
 
I see - us -.
But slightly different formatting.
It's all closer, and the us is small caps, I think.
 
@DSM LOL it is random every time :-)
 
DSM
8:54 PM
I don't see any letters at all. I wonder if it's being recognized, but I don't have the associated font.
 
the labels on the right make way more sense when I load the images:)
but the unicode is still a box for me there:(
I usually miss a lot of these fonts
 
9:10 PM
@davidism +1 for the snake at the end.
 
This is what being colorblind must be like
 
yeah
 
thanks
 
Is there a twitter icon next to the link on this page? palletsproject.com/people/mitsuhiko
 
I only see it on the right, next to the twitter link
if you meant that, then "yes there is"
 
9:23 PM
apparently uBlock blocks it
 
hmm...both your last links point to github
is that intentional?
the last icon looks like a bin
wait, are you really "the flask guy"?
 
the last one's supposed to be bitbucket
only a flask guy, but yes I'm one of the maintainers
 
are you all "the * guys" here?:)
I'm starting to feel bad that we don't have any "the * guys" in the matlab room
that's what you get for not being community-driven, I guess
 
I see a twitter icon
 
Yeah, it's a certain ublock filter
 
9:28 PM
@davidism so is the link intentionally not pointing to bitbucket?
 
no, that was a mistake
 
the icon's correct btw
 
I have a question guys I'm supposed to take user input but the input is going to be like

String integer

An example would be

move 8

Would I use Sys.argv or input?
 
those are two different things
how do you want to use your script?
 
If the user inputs

move 8 it would move board[7]
 
9:42 PM
@user3561871 stop putting extra lines everywhere
So you want the user to input something while the program is running? Then you use input. sys.argv holds the command line args.
Which you could have easily discovered by just trying it.
 
10:03 PM
@wim I feel dumb. I keep getting a syntax error trying to run your code in your question.
 
which code is that?
 
I must be doing something REALLY silly to not get this running on my end
 
oh I'm not trying that infinite loop:P
 
join the party
:D
I'm still not in the party :(
 
:(
you're trying with python3, right?
 
10:15 PM
both 2 and 3
wait
wait a minute (oh I think I'm dumb...)
haha
I had 4 shell tabs open
convinced one of them was 3.5 when it was 2 the whole time
YES!
high five
 
Why are so many people still using python 2? If python 3 is the latest, why havent people swapped over to it yet?
 
There are still a lot of things out there still using Python 2
and a lot of enterprises are still using applications built on python 2
 
wim
@idjaw you can replicate it in py2 with list(itertools.count()) or somesuch
 
Ok. ANd I'm guessing it's not simple enough to just update?
 
10:21 PM
@wim thanks. I felt pretty silly when I realized my tab was not py3 :P
@Arunex absolutely not. Considering how large applications can get...that's a massive change which can cost a lot.
We have a few applications that have to be Python 2 because they depend on packages that are still Python 2
it's still a bit of a mess
 
wim
@Arunex because "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
of course any new projects should be started on py3
 
yes that is what I was going to say next. Our new projects are all py3
and going forward any code we write has to be python 3 friendly
 
How long until it's almost entirely py3? how many years?
 
wim
shrugs it can be decades
 
no clue...but EOL for python 2 stops 2020
 
wim
10:24 PM
if you use numpy , you still use FORTRAN code
like I said, if it ain't broke ...
 
on that note...rbrb....going to see if Batman v Superman is really that bad
here we go
 
bye
 

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