« first day (1985 days earlier)      last day (2963 days later) » 

3:00 PM
lol:D
 
avoiding verbal conversation is priority #0
 
cbg @RainerKoirikivi :)
 
cbg @JonClements !
 
are Finns so hard to stand?
 
we're going to talk about python anw
 
3:00 PM
because their language sounds silly
 
@corvid their language sounds great!
 
how do you mean?
 
yeah only English does not sound silly
 
the only language in the neighbourhood that stresses the proper syllable of words:P
 
3:01 PM
@Antti I hope you're not mocking the lingua franca (oh the irony of that expression...)
3
 
@JonClements :D
 
DSM
Whenever I hear Finnish being spoken I hear the oooeeeoooo part of Matalii Ja Mustii playing in the background.
 
we're also both on my 3G...
@idjaw: surprisingly accurate!
there's actually a Finnish girl who did a bunch of those videos
 
she said kaksi
 
That's great! I think there was an Italian comedian who did the same too.
 
DSM
3:05 PM
What, that one song?
 
PIZZA:D
she's great
and pretty
When I was in Turku I only saw pretty girls, so I'm sold on Finland.
 
every Finn is a pretty girl
 
Also, reindeer are the best!
 
Antti is a pretty girl
 
3:08 PM
reindeer is tastiest
 
Antti is the most beautifullest girl <3
 
when I become rich, I'll only eat reindeer.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=dzEuiaZvttg reminds me of these Norwegians who went on dutch TV speaking what they thought dutch sounds like
 
noooo don't eat the deer:(
Don't be like those evil Swedes
 
we have a special steak in Finland
called Rudolph
 
3:09 PM
:D
 
:D
not actually though, but reindeer meat is tasty
 
@Isea took me a while to realize why they didn't sound Dutch...
also, ringiringdingdingdingdiding
 
it starts properly at ~45 seconds @andras
 
so does it sound like dutch?
 
3:11 PM
@Isea yeah I know, doesn't help my feeling stupid:D
 
it sounds like a dutch person who had a stroke.. they know the words but they're not making any sense
 
so that's pretty good then :P
 
Dutch sounds like...
German written in the phonetic alphabeth
read as latin alphabeth
 
3:13 PM
we have some very different sounds compared to german though
like the throat scraping G etc :P
 
it is pretty effortless to read Dutch if one knows Swedish, English and German
 
yeah :D
likewise I know English, Dutch and German so reading Norwegian is actually not so bad
the oddest thing is that Norwegian shares a lot of words with my dialect, while Dutch uses different words (which are usually the same words the Englsh use)
 
but then trying to understand spoken Danish
 
youtube.com/watch?v=8_iixmqSBQw no one understands Danish
 
@AnttiHaapala I know English and kinda German, does that count enough?
 
3:16 PM
@corvid “kinda” German, or “Kinder German”?
 
kinda garden
 
Kindergarten
 
:D
 
3:21 PM
:D
 
The UI is even a little nicer than the one that BigCorp Kevin wrote. In v1, changing sorting was based on a keyboard shortcut and there was no onscreen indication of what the current sorting method was.
Now there's a "sorting by..." label on the top bar. Clicking it changes what it sorts by.
 
 
Am I right that pandas uses numpy under the hood, so suggesting pandas.hist is actually the same as suggesting using numpy.hist?
I'm lazy to hit the manual, I'm just wondering if anybody knows this
so don't bother googling if you don't:)
 
3:27 PM
Secretly I'm glad that people don't always RTFM. If they did, we wouldn't have anything to talk about in here.
Other than, y'know, all the things we talk about in here that have nothing to do with programming.
 
dogs?
 
Yes, that is one such topic. Good eye.
 
user559633
what does salad sound like to non-salad speakers?
 
The [r] community has posted a meta question on [dataframes] meta.stackoverflow.com/q/319590/4099593 (linking here as it involves [python])
3
 
@tristan Like this.
Aw man, it cuts out before the end.
 
3:39 PM
@BhargavRao hmm
there is nothing to pandas besides dataframes
 
salad sounds like:
cbg
 
so having "pandas" "dataframes" is against DRY
 
BigCorp
 
@AnttiHaapala actually, there's bunch of [pandas] not [dataframes]
I checked a few days ago when this came up
 
ah really? :d
 
3:42 PM
of course most of them can be mistaggings
but in a pandas context dataframes does seem both redundant and meta
 
all of those results use dataframes
 
not that I know pandas, just looking at pandas-related questions
 
just see the excerpts
 
@AndrasDeak that's what Antti was saying: there's no point in tagging and , it's not mistagging to leave off .
 
but it's no use burninating on the basis of "it's a meta-tag", since questions will keep popping up with it like mushroom after a week's rain
 
3:44 PM
all of them say "df" or "dataframe" or so in the excerpt
 
I guess:)
 
@AndrasDeak You got it wrong.
See [dataframes]-[pandas].
 
really?
 
dang, you're right
I got this "not" thing from someone earlier
 
3:46 PM
185 questions only
 
I'm sure at least 100 concern actual pandas
 
it is like saying "english-spelling" "latin-alphabet"
like you'd ever write english in another script
 
That also makes other data-structure tags invalid
 
I have a compiler that compiles Finnish to English
 
"compiles Finnish to English" - translates or compiles?
 
3:53 PM
compiles :D
 
compiles
works better after a few beers also
though not as well as my Finnish to German compiler
 
English to German compiler works by first making AST, then moving the verb to the end
 
@AnttiHaapala I wouldn’t be too sure about that :P
 
it is like if foo: "1231231231232" print
 
brief-rbrb; Will re-cbg again
 
4:01 PM
german language keeps the suspense
sometimes you have to listen to the end of the sentence to find out whether the speaker lost or found a wallet.
 
4:30 PM
@poke, both basically apply. I speak German at the level of a child
 
1-year-old?
I speak Vietnamese better than German or Swedish, which is a shame
 
Aren't German and Swedish pretty different from Finnish? That's why Finnish seems kinda odd
 
I was under the impression Finnish was somehow related to Serbo-Croat
But the limits of my misdirected ignorance are often hard to fathom
 
4:47 PM
Finnish is related to the Hungarian language
and Estonian
also many loan words from Swedish but the structure of the language is different
 
DSM
I have work to do. I shouldn't be reading about haplogroups in northern Europe..
 
5:05 PM
I'm trying to find the normal vector of each point on a bezier curve. I think I can get that if I know the derivative of the curve, which this page describes. But I'm not sure I understand the meaning of this equation. I don't know what the curly brackets signify.
Maybe they mean the same thing as regular parentheses. The equation following that one seems to support this.
 
DSM
I think that's right.
 
yup that's right
 
5:49 PM
Hmm, doesn't look quite right...
At the peak of the loop, the railroad ties look far from perpendicular to the path
 
That's where the conductor got extreme and decided to start drifting.
 
DSM
Extreme conducting! The exciting new sport taking the world of competitive railroad trains by storm.
 
Superconducting!
 
DSM
(tip of hat) holdenweb wins.
 
I rewrote the function from the ground up and now it looks OK. We may never discover the cause of the non-orthogonal lines.
 
5:59 PM
I'd say those cross-lines look distinctly ab normal to me
 
DSM
Aww, I was halfway through my own Bezier class implementation.
 
re-cabbage
 
I think it's because my first implementation uses the linear time C(u) algorithm listed as the top equation on that page, and my second implementation uses the O(2^N) recursive algorithm.
The former makes heavy use of factorials so maybe it's more prone to floating point error
 
DSM
Ehh. You've only got eight points or so? 8! ~ 40k. Floating point precision shouldn't be an issue.
 
6:18 PM
My actual use case only needs four control points, so exponential time is no big deal
 
@Kevin draw something happier
 
user image
6
 
much better
 
Lol, The image is rotated :D
 
@BhargavRao I was just going to note how odd those buttons are in the bottom right corner
 
DSM
6:25 PM
He's upside down from joy!
 
then I realized myself:P
 
@DSM do you think you can add some input on this CW meta.stackoverflow.com/a/319591/3001626?
 
DSM
@DavidArenburg: I will in exchange for one little favour. (mustache twirling)
 
DSM
Could you tell me why it's "Python pandas"? Nobody says "Python numpy" or anything, but I see this pattern everywhere, and I've never been able to figure out where it's coming from.
 
6:28 PM
alliteration is worth extra points
 
I think it is because of numpy
 
naaaaah no way
 
ignorance?
 
numpy sounds weird and unique
pandas are the shit nowadays everywhere
 
maybe they're worried that we'll think they're talking about regular pandas. Like, the kind in zoos.
 
6:29 PM
Rename [pandas] to [pyandas] :D
 
@BhargavRao +1 :D
 
DSM
I don't think it's ignorance because a lot of beginners use the phrase, so it must be coming from somewhere, like a tutorial or a reference or something. But I've never been able to track it down, and it's an ongoing mystery.
 
"You can't use pandas to arrange tables, because pandas have poor interior decoration abilities"
 
This is why we are trying to get some input from the Python guys- cause we are Python/Pandas ignorant...
 
@Kevin Heck, What about Python? :o
 
6:30 PM
we have this too in R for other stuff
 
DSM
Anyway, @DavidArenburg, so its the idea to have just a language-agnostic dataframe tag and synonymize everything else?
 
something like that
TBH, I just want to get over with
 
@DSM feel free to edit to simply "pandas" or whatever is correct. it may be somewhat obscurer than it needs to be that way, i suppose (since those who have never heard of it will have no idea what it is), but no real harm
 
this whole dataframe saga is taking too long now
 
@Kevin actually, they would probably be up for the task from a cognitive point of view, since they are highly intelligent
 
DSM
6:31 PM
@DavidArenburg: if the process were too efficient there'd be too many changes. ;-) (0.65 wink)
 
If only they didn't have such dreadful taste
 
i would call the data.table package in R, "R data.table" or "R's data.table package", i guess, similarly, no real mystery to the pattern
 
true dat:D
 
DSM
@Frank: it actually makes some sense in this context, I admit. My puzzle is that you see "python pandas" in question titles, as if it's a specific name, but you don't see that for almost any other common Python library (esp. those on the science stack).
 
oh, maybe it's because it's used by people who need to do stats stuff and aren't very programming-literate. or maybe it's just not established enough yet to be taken as known
 
DSM
6:34 PM
Anyway, I'll try to write a few summary sentences.
 
ok, thanks
i think we can just make the apache thing into a stub like "It's also a thing in Spark" and go ahead
 
DSM
6:55 PM
@Frank, @DavidArenburg: okay, I took a stab.
 
cool, looks good, thanks
 
Boss was missing data (a column) in a report that amounts to an SQL select. Sends me a select of the mapping table and tells me to join it in Excel.
I should appreciate this. I had forgotten what professional anger feels like.
 
I once rejected a job cause they told me they are using Excel on a daily basis...
 
Can anyone reproduce the problem here?
 
DSM
FWIW there's also a very similar object called a dataframe in Julia, which has also reached near-canonical status.
 
7:04 PM
Lol, @DavidArenburg You got more work to do then :P
 
@vaultah: yes, 3.4.3 does it
 
user559633
pet peeve of the day. official documentation suggesting a third party lib docs.python.org/3/library/http.client.html
 
user559633
a simple to use, stdlib thing saying "hey try this specific URL and 3rd party package"
 
DSM
I seem to remember that you're anti-requests.
 
user559633
I'm not anti-requests, I just think that docs.python.org/3/library/http.client.html#examples is "easy enough" without going down the nodejs path of suggesting external dependencies to do easy things
 
7:17 PM
@tristan something something Antti requests
 
I could have sworn they also recommended lxml in the docs, but I can't find it.
 
DSM
I don't know what I think about that. On the one hand, I like the idea of the mothership not choosing favourites. On the other, there's no point in pretending that numpy isn't the canonical array library (just as an example). Why shouldn't there be a reference to it?
 
user559633
I use numpy in 0 of my projects.
 
user559633
If the mothership has a stdlib way of doing a thing, it should list that in the documentation and try to remain as unbiased/self-contained as possible. SO/wikis/pypi are reasonable locations to expect preferences and marketing
 
They recommend defusedxml, I'm pretty sure. Although that's only for unsafe input
 
DSM
7:23 PM
That people can do a lot in Python never using numpy is a good argument for python.org not to redirect to numpy.org. Don't think "the language pages shouldn't acknowledge the ecosystem" follows.
 
user559633
@DSM It's not disregarding the ecosystem, it's just not giving it equal weight to the fantastic stdlib.
 
user559633
pypi.python.org is already a nod-to and hosting of the ecosystem
 
I wish it was simpler to make executables in python. That's all I want :p
 
DSM
I'm not going to die on this hill because I really don't care :-), but you think one line "is recommended for a higher-level http client interface" is "equal weight"?
 
user559633
@DSM Pet peeve, so yeah, I don't care that much, but saying "See also: this other thing is recommended" on line two, with a yellow background as a call out is a pretty strong recommendation for most users.
 
7:27 PM
oh man people are frusterating today
ask a question, I answer it... then they say they already tried my solution and proceed to post what they tried which is nothing like my solution at all (other than both solutions use a dictionary)
 
DSM
@tristan: well, yeah. But equal weight it's not, and IF we stipulate that it's okay for python.org to reference the ecosystem, it makes sense to put the link on that page. So granted that (which as I said I'm still undecided about), it sounds like we're literally arguing about the colour choices and whether they're too bold.
 
user559633
Fair enough. A fallback position is that I'm for saying "here's the stdlib way, it's pretty good, and you'll learn about how the thing works" before a suggestion referencing the ecosystem/3rd party convenience/newbie-oriented alternatives
 
but numpy is great none the less:P
 
user559633
Sure, yes, so is lxml and cython and ipython and boto is pretty much a necessity for a lot of people, as it pyyaml, and epdb is pretty good, as is protobuf, then there's also wheel, don't forget about celery, django is popular, so you gotta include that....
 
@poke I just used this as a reference for a recent discussion. So, thank you. :)
 
7:37 PM
You guys I made a remote controlled automated door lock with security camera, it's actually bretty cool. Raspberry pi is surprisingly versatile
 
DSM
That's the best reason to take a bright line against non-stdlib pointers, IMHO: avoiding arguments about who gets included or not.
 
@tristan I'm not saying it's a necessity or ubiquitous, but as a physicist I mostly use that whenever I program something:)
 
user559633
Sure, it's good (I mean, I actually use it, just illustrating a point)
 
yeah, sure
no argument there
 
@corvid golf clap
 
7:59 PM
@DSM awesome thanks
 
56 mins ago, by DSM
FWIW there's also a very similar object called a dataframe in Julia, which has also reached near-canonical status.
 
@BhargavRao Yeah I saw that. it seems like it's a thing stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/… but in small proportions. I'll leave the Julia guys to edit the tag wiki if they feel strongly baout it
 
@DavidArenburg Ah fine. Guess they'll see the meta post and respond.
 
DSM
Or not. There aren't as many Julians as there should be yet. :-)
 
There are only two question starting this year
it doesn't look like a real issue really, but I agree we should add this to the wiki- atleast mention it
 
8:08 PM
Now I need to stalk Julia tag also ;)
 
Umm...is it regular in that 150k users answer literally typo questions in full answers?
missing ending parenthesis...
and am I being an ass for commenting on this below their answer?
 
Don't worry much about those, They'll be closed.
 
and stick around with an answer of score +2
without ever being of any use to anybody in the future:/
 
I regularly check typo questions and try to delete them
I have to add them to my "favorites" :d
 
Lol, Nice idea
 
8:12 PM
OK then:)
another incentive for 10k:D
 
DSM
I've probably answered some I shouldn't have. Officially I think it depends on whether or not the typo is likely to be common and/or results in an error message which is likely to be generic.
 
TBH; I answered a typo question at 3k rep. It is most viewed question that I have ever answered. Sad, but true :(
 
DSM
Okay, parentheses these days are closed as typo. That said, I shouldn't throw too many stones as I know I've answered a few of them in the past. :-/
 
@DSM shunnnn ;)
@BhargavRao if it was a 3k user, I'd be grumpy and comment and leave it at that
I've had multiple run-ins with rep whores
what I really don't get is when a high-rep does this
 
DSM
8:14 PM
there, I just deleted a +5 answer of mine which was a parenthesis close.
 
my top answer is 100% RTFM
@DSM aaaaw:(
I didn't mean that
 
I'm almost sure my top voted answer is a dupe
 
@AndrasDeak Lol :D
 
You don't have to :( @DSM
 
@DSM Why a sudden decision? :/
 
8:15 PM
hey @idjaw would you like to over some of my code for me and give it some much needed criticism
 
DSM
I have the rep to spare, and there's another answer with the same content. :-)
 
Feature request. Rep gifting. Give to those in need (want) of internet points
 
@idjaw it's called bounties
 
It's more direct the way DSM would have done it
"oh let me take these 5 upvotes here and just give it to my Canadian brother"
:D
 
oh I see:D
*50 reps :O
 
8:17 PM
Rep sacrifice - I sacrifice some of my rep to Lord
Star sacrifice - I sacrifice some of my stars to Star Lord <-- More legit :D
 
@Jonathan No promises, you can make a pastebin and if I happen to take a look at it I can give you some pointers. But it might only be later tonight if things aren't too busy at home.
 
DSM
Remember that there's an entire site devoted to code review, although you'd probably need to do some work to get the code ready for review..
 
@dsm I'm just doing some small projects to try and improve on my skills. I'm not trying to release any software or anything. Thanks for the info though
 
DSM
CR isn't just for releases, but your call. :-)
 
@Jonathan that is a good point by DSM....Code Review would actually be an excellent source for you to get your stuff reviewed and improved.
 
8:20 PM
I just looked into it
am going to sign up now
 
do it :)
 
just consider licensing or something
as I sometimes read on controversial meta bulletins
 
DSM
They have their own customs, just like SO. If you do wind up posting code there, read through their "how to ask a question" pages and look at some upvoted questions / downvoted questions for examples of what to do/what to avoid. You can get really useful feedback from them, but you have to put in the work to get good responses.
 
yes I will do that. I'm here everyday so I'm def serious about getting better. Thank
thanks*
 
@idjaw Slightly off-topic...but I'm planning on going to Montreal and don't have any idea where I should go. I figured you might be the one to talk to for a local's perspective? :p
 
8:26 PM
@Programmer asking a Dutchman about Montreal, eh? ;)
 
Where ever you go, You will get caught by the JFL crew :P
 
Being here doesn't imply becoming better at python. Some of us happily stagnate in our own excellence.
 
(@Programmer that was an unfunny joke of mine. I asked idjaw recently whether he was Dutch too, since at least his avatar seemed to be Dutch:P)
 
I thought there was some context missing...
 
PEBCAK on my side
 
8:29 PM
Just got in. Anyone else get a docs beta invite?
 
Rbrb
 
@Programmer Look through my profile and you should find contact info. Message me through that and we can chat :)
 
Thanks, I will
 
Rbrb Pro
 
Do you think that it was OK to remove the import from this question?
I'm mostly curious, since the question is quite unclear
"it's working but it gives error" and the like
 
8:38 PM
@idjaw any time, that’s why I post stuff :)
 
true @QuestionC, but I'm here to be in the environment of code hoping to pick up tidbits of wisdom as they fly about lol
 
@Jonathan that's also the reason why I've been lurking here
 
@AndrasDeak I feel like I need to add to my title to imply my inherited Dutch background.
 
:D
class idjaw(Dutch):
 
that could work. I'll see how I can format it in nicely
 
8:45 PM
oh I don't think it's actually funny
but it's your call:P
 
well...FINE THEN
 
DSM
when your podcast RSS feed hasn't been updated even though it should have been by now #zerothworldproblems
 
I just ate all the icing off a donut because I just wanted the icing.
 
Rhubarb all, Time to sleep o/
 
8:51 PM
rbrb @BhargavRao
 
9:40 PM
@tristan Yeah, no, http.client is not easy enough when you want to do persistent connections, or cookie handling, etc.
requests doesn't want to be part of the stdlib because it can't iterate fast enough if it was, but the stdlib does want requests. :-)
 
10:26 PM
Boy, the cargo-culting answers are thick on the ground when it comes to SQL handling.
Latest example: stackoverflow.com/questions/36140354/…. No idea why the OP accepted that answer, even.
 
I find that happens a lot when over confidence takes over testing before answering. I've jumped the gun a few times, but I've corrected myself fairly quickly when an alarm was raised on a mistake I've made. Keeping it there just because the "green checkmark" is there is just poor form.
 
@idjaw in a way, the OP is now holding that answer hostage though. With the accept mark, the author of the wrong answer cannot now delete the post.
 
@MartijnPieters That is true. But editing is still there as an option. Granted, maybe they haven't seen the message yet. But does an OP get notified of all activity in a question? (I've never really posted a question). Maybe they might change their tune and do the right thing.
 
@idjaw I was poked about the question because the OP made a suggested edit to my answer.
and I left a comment on their question about that edit, so currently they are aware there is activity on the post.
 
How odd....
 
10:40 PM
Hopefully they'll see my comment on the accepted answer.
 
it's really misleading when the checkmark is wrong. I know through my quick browsing of SO when I'm looking for an answer, I always get directed to the checkmarks....but with my recent contributions I've been realizing that I really need to read more than just the accepted the answer, because of situations like this. =/
 
Best bit: I can't find a MySQL database adapter that accepts the parameters as separate arguments..
The two major alternatives do not.
 
I remember facing this issue when I first started using it and was hit with a "OH" moment when I RTFM properly :P
@MartijnPieters Does SQLAlchemy let you do something like sending a list of values? (checking)
nevermind
 
@idjaw it doesn't.
 
just checked
yeah...
 
10:47 PM
hrm, if you use Connection.execute() then you can pass in the arguments that way.
kinda-sorta.
 
In the end you are still doing VALUES (?, ?)
@MartijnPieters then there is this But based on the OP question and the wrong answer, this utilization is far off
 
@idjaw that's very far removed from what code in the question is doing.
 
exactly....so, then...did the OP even try this out before accepting???
 
I don't think they did.
 
sigh....and these are things beyond mod control to help rectify, right?
 

« first day (1985 days earlier)      last day (2963 days later) »