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11:00 AM
there was something basic she couldn't configure (including help from her sons)
something about setting separate ring tones for the two sim cards?
 
Oh okay, dunno. Only got the first sim in for now
Wife's borrowing my work phone so I can't chuck that one in yet
 
but overall it looks like a pretty decent phone:)
 
anyone here used Python for .NET (not IronPython)?
anyone having any ideas whether it works?
 
11:18 AM
never heard of that
> Python for .NET is currently compatible with Python releases 2.5 and greater.
I wish library authors would stop using “works with X or greater”
That’s almost never the case and usually means:
> I built it for X, it doesn’t work before, and I stopped caring and maintaining it
In the README, it even says:
> Python for .NET is currently compatible with Python releases 2.3 and greater.
And the installation manual a few lines below uses Python 2.4.
Off to a great start.
Latest version seems to be from 2012, written in Visual Studio 2010… I’d pass @Antti
 
@poke then that's a different one, this supported 3.5
 
odd
link?
 
11:23 AM
> sourceforge
 
Don’t you love it, when projects still exist in very old versions on SourceForge and they are the #1 Google result?
 
scourgegurge
SourceForge, Google... things to hate...
@poke even more lovable is when a project that you need is alive and still actually hosted on sourceforge and you try to lkook for it elsewhere first...
 
But it suggests me to buy Python in a local electronics store! For some reason..?
3
 
@poke local *zoo
 
startpage suggest github first
 
 
1 hour later…
12:28 PM
Hey, sourceforge was bought out by that company and isn't serving malware anymore. What more can you ask for?
 
Seeking a dupe target for Python, Loop n numbers of vars with independent ranges. It's your classic "Q: how do I do many loops in one loop? A: itertools.product" post.
 
That'll do I think, thanks
 
user7081143
Hi
 
user7081143
12:33 PM
why there is no seminar with the name "Python Object Oriented Programming Seminar"?
 
POOPS has been waiting for you to invent it all this time
Strike forth and spread your light through the world
 
user7081143
Lol , hahaha
 
 
You're just going to dump POOPS on us?
 
user7081143
@KevinMGranger absolutely not i had no idea what POOPS means :D
 
12:38 PM
Cabbage
 
O.O.P., how can I explain it
I'll take it frame by frame it
To have y'all all jumping, shouting, saying it
O is for object, O is for oriented
And the P, well that's just programming.
 
I think POOPS would be a pre-requisite of my Python Intensive System Simulation Open Functional Framework course
 
user7081143
Should i learn deep about OOP in python ?
 
@KevinMGranger I wish that was a haiku
 
user7081143
Because i see everywhere classes and classes methods.
 
12:41 PM
I flagged this as offensive a couple of hours ago. I guess the mods decided it was ok... or didn't read the text in the image... or they have a huge backlog of flags. It doesn't particularly bother me, but I really don't think that it's appropriate for SO.
 
Python has a solid classical OOP model, so it's a good language to learn with.
 
@holdenweb We (PHP) already own the POOP abbreviation
 
> Such swag, many wow.
Room 11 is overflowing...
 
user7081143
@holdenweb sir any good blog for POOPS ?
 
@KevinMGranger :P
 
12:43 PM
Particularly so because a) you can play with it interactively and in notebooks and such, and b) it lets your code interact fairly intimately with the interpreter (though not as much as (say) Perl or Ruby).
 
> We (PHP)
 
@PM2Ring Yeah, The mods don't see images. We can close it and deleted it though.
 
@khajvah Yes I am part of the hive. Trust me I have tried to escape, but without success :(
Send food
 
@BhargavRao Oh. That's... annoying. I guess I should've used a custom flag instead of the standard "offensive / abusive" one.
 
The PHP-hive.
Meanwhile, pythons have... heck, what do you call a snake's living area?
 
12:45 PM
Well, as Microsoft discovered (in my case and others') it's a bitch, but customers who abandon you don't come back just because you've got your shit together now
 
@KevinMGranger cave... which makes sense :P
 
Oh, I found it. A Flying Circus.
 
Fortunately, there's one born every minute, so Microsoft shares are unlikely to plummet.
 
@PM2Ring Yeah. We need a reason box next to the spam/offensive flags too.
 
@KevinMGranger :-)
 
user7081143
12:46 PM
FOLKS CAN ANYONE WILL SUGGEST ANY GOOD BLOG OR TUTORIAL FOR SOLID KNOWLEDGE OF OOPS?
 
lolwat
 
@maridlhr err, All caps implies that you are shouting :/
 
That's a nice way to get people to hate ignore you :P
 
user7081143
WHY SUDDENLY MY MACBOOK CHARACTERS ARE UPPERCASE EVEN WITHOUT CAPLOCK :?
 
12:47 PM
Oh get lost
 
@maridlhr press caps lock again.
 
Do you have another "cruise control for cool" button?
 
Probably of of those new touchscreen mac things
 
user7081143
MY CAPS LOCK NOT WORK SORRY I AM REALLY SORRY LET ME SEARCH FOR THIS
 
12:48 PM
@BhargavRao ah
 
@maridlhr You can hold shift and type.
Assuming that works on Mac also
 
Apple removed caps lock button
 
I just found out that @maridlhr is only one vote away from chat silence ;-)
 
Exercise: write a Python program which takes all caps text as input, and outputs lowercase text in a copy-pastable window.
 
@khajvah Yeah, You need to buy a new caps lock key for that. It's just $99.
 
12:50 PM
Bonus points for proper capitalization instead
 
Difficulty ranking: 0.5 to 3 stars, depending on whether your shell has selectable text
 
@PeeHaa Nope, 6 chat flags bans a user. (afaik)
 
@BhargavRao True minimalists don't need caps
 
@BhargavRao It has 20 rep ;-)
 
user7081143
ahh @BhargavRao thanks a lot actually my shift button was pressed permanently and it was keep pressing without any force.
 
12:51 PM
I don't think you lose chat privs if you get downvoted back below 20 rep. At least that's not how it works for other privileges.
 
I was just going to say, what terminal doesn't let you select text?
 
@PeeHaa Ah, That's a (evil) workaround. And chat caches rep for 5 mins, so you still need to wait. :)
 
Maybe it's different for this one because it's a low bar...
 
that moment when you find yourself watching random youtube videos or chatting about random shit and realize that you switched to the browser to google "require.js docs"
 
Thanks now I'm tempted to try it :P
@BhargavRao Ah yes I am an evil person
 
12:52 PM
@Kevin that's how it works, as far as I know
 
I'm going to blame the inconsistency on the fact that it's chat-related, when most other privs are main-site-related. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing
 
python3 -c "import sys; print(''.join(x.lower() for x in sys.stdin))"
 
@Kevin You lose privs unless a RO has given explicit privs. (afaik)
 
@KevinMGranger You get half a star. 9.5 more and you get a free yogurt at participating locations.
 
@Kevin It's kinda amazing this chat thing sometimes works at all
 
12:54 PM
I can't have dairy :(
 
Then you may donate the yogurt to the charity of your choice.
 
Gross
 
PHP support group?
 
It's a trap. If you use PHP you are doomed either way
 
PeeHaa did ask for food. I'll get on those challenges fast.
 
12:56 PM
Coincidentally, I just answered a case conversion question: stackoverflow.com/questions/40304506/…
 
I managed to get off PHP. I'm over one year $ober!
 
> Make no mistake - as short as it is - Titanfall 2's campaign is a benchmark, and quite feasibly the best single-player FPS since Modern Warfare 2 (although this year's Doom might have something to say about that).
 
let's all congratulate Kevin M
 
@KevinMGranger SO should give badges for that
 
Actually, that's a lie. I did find a security hole in a site that exposed their PHP and needed to make a proof of concept for them :/
I really loved what Titanfall 1 could have been... might have to get it
 
user7081143
 
user7081143
Shooting yourself in the foot in various programming languages
 
It's a classic.
 
Python

You shoot yourself in the foot and then brag for hours about how much more elegantly you did it than if you had been using C or (God forbid) Perl.
You create a gun module, a gun class, a foot module, and a foot class. After realizing you can't point the gun at the foot, you pass a reference to the gun to a foot object. After the foot is blown up, the gun object remains alive for eternity, ready to shoot all future feet that may happen to appear.
 
user7081143
@Kevin what he meant You create a gun module, a gun class, a foot module, and a foot class. After realizing you can't point the gun at the foot, you pass a reference to the gun to a foot object. After the foot is blown up, the gun object remains alive for eternity, ready to shoot all future feet that may happen to appear.
 
That second one just sounds like classic "haha I don't get OOP haha I can't even"
 
1:04 PM
Mar 30 '15 at 12:06, by PM 2Ring
@RobertGrant Understood. OTOH, do we really want ex-PHP programmers going straight into Python? Shouldn't they go through some sort of detox clinic first? :)
 
I don't get the "gun remains alive for eternity" bit. Are they saying that garbage collection doesn't work? I've never heard that complaint before...
Or is it "haha Python programmers love their singletons!" which also doesn't strike true to me
 
user7081143
@Kevin that's the thing i am also cinfuse :)
 
user7081143
*confuse
 
> Linux

You shoot yourself in the foot with a Gnu.
wat? why?
 
Or is it "after you import a module, it remains initialized and additional imports of the same module don't require the re-execution of any code"? I guess that is true, but it's not quite mean-spirited the way most of these jokes are
 
1:09 PM
Hey @maridlhr You can edit typos in your posts, if you're quick. Just hit the up arrow key to get to your previous post(s).
 
@PM2Ring huh, I've been here a while now!
 
Unless the author thought that keeping modules loaded was a really dumb idea and assumed that merely mentioning it would be sufficient for us to sneer at it.
 
user7081143
@PM2Ring you meant about caps lock stuff ??
 
I'm pretty sure he meant about your last message where you spelled "confused" wrong.
 
Look at the languages on this list. It appears to be from a more ignorant time.
 
1:10 PM
@Kevin but you could be wrong
 
@Kevin That sounds plausible. I guess some people may find that annoying, but I assume most experienced Python users consider it to be a great feature.
 
It's certainly surprising if you're coming straight from languages with #include preprocessor directives.
Which don't have any fancy bells and whistles and just copy-paste the text from one file into another
 
@maridlhr No, I meant in reference to your *confuse correction, which is why my post was linked to that one. :)
 
"You mean I don't have to manually analyze my code to look for reference cycles that hang the compiler?" [a single tear of joy trickles down]
 
Morning cabbage.
 
user7081143
1:14 PM
anyone knows about good article or anything which explain backend of python interpreter ? which explained how pvm works in detail ?
 
Oh... Apparently if your boss unplugs the router while you're downloading a 1.5 gig file through firefox, it doesn't start up where it left off when the connection comes back up again. That was ninety minutes well spent.
And that, children, is why you torrent isos.
 
@Kevin depends on the server you are downloading from
 
princeton.edu, j'accuse
 
@Kevin Perhaps. OTOH, once you've #include'd something you can't exactly un-include it.
 
Yes, depends on the server. If they properly send all headers, Firefox can resume it
But yeah, torrenting is so useful aside from its illegal uses…
 
1:17 PM
@poke True, but does it automatically resume? Or even pop up a dialog asking if you want to resume?
 
@PM2Ring it should automatically resume
 
Ok
 
if you lose the connection, it will abort, signalizing the failure. And when you have the connection back, you should be able to press the retry button to continue
 
there are download managers
for that purpose
 
Let's see, I'll click the retry button... Oh, rad, it didn't start over from the beginning.
je suis désolé, princeton.edu.
As a certified Computer Guy, I know I should have tried pressing every button before giving up, but my despair impaired my thinking.
 
1:21 PM
@Kevin you went straight to plan B: turning it off and on again
 
@PM2Ring Apparently it neither automatically resumes, nor clearly indicates that it can do so. All I saw was "failed" where the "x minutes remaining" label usually was.
 
@Kevin Yeah, that's what I thought it did. Maybe khajvah is using a more advanced version than we are. Or has configured it better. :)
 
@PM2Ring I was talking about short connection cuts
 
I upgrade FF like once per three years so it's certainly possible
 
and that the server has the support
 
1:25 PM
Remember when I worked for Sun we would demonstrate NSF by power-cycling the server with a client in the middle of a transfer, then watch it resume when NFS came back on-line.
 
Boss: "Let me know when your download is finished, I need to do some stuff"
Firefox: "3 hours, 23 minutes remaining"
Me: [sweats profusely]
 
@Kevin My brother and I would laugh about our aspie behaviour when we did that (and, of course, we do, all the time)
 
I guess I can pause it until their lunch break...
 
Press those buttons, press 'em all
 
1:30 PM
Gotta press 'em all
cbg
 
cbg
 
Hmm there's no pause button for this download, only "cancel". I'm pretty sure downloads usually have a pause button. Maybe it only has a pause button on the version of firefox I have at home, not at work. Maybe you can only pause downloads if they're below a certain size. Maybe this version of firefox does have a pause button, but it's been "helpfully" moved to somewhere I can't see it.
Ah, here it is, in the right-click context menu.
 
welp. netflix works on chrome but not on chromium
works on FF
 
1:53 PM
I use chrome for everything Firefox can't do, which is apparently 1) netflix, 2) games that tell me "this game requires WebGL, consider switching to Firefox" and refuse to run when I try to play them in Firefox
 
Here's a slightly unusual variation on the good-old "'int' object is not callable" theme: passing an example of the thing you want to sort on instead of a lambda as the key arg of sorted. stackoverflow.com/questions/40306164/… I just wish the OP would tell us what he expects that function to do. :)
 
@Kevin FF does netflix
with user agent switcher
 
I'll just keep doing it in this slightly inconvenient way because that's the way I've always done it.
It has been [0] minutes since our last Computer Guy behavior infraction
 
ok I tricked Netflix that I am in USA and am using windows, now I need to find a girlfriend for netflix and chill. Any tips?
 
Proper hygeine, go places where people are, when someone asks you a question sometimes it means they want you to ask them the same question because they have a good story they want an excuse to tell.
There, take it, the sum total of all my knowledge of humans.
6
 
1:57 PM
I do the first 2 but nobody asks me any questions
paradox
 
guys question: what do you do if you're blocked by something out of your control, but someone wants a working prototype immediately?
 
Tell your PM, they'll escalate if necessary. Assuming "out of your control" means another coworker
 
Get up and stop dreaming
 
I usually take a nap in those kind of situations
but that doesn't help
 
@khajvah Good luck with that. If you figure it out, write down the solution next to the three other things, for the benefit of future generations.
If you don't figure it out, well, I guess there won't be future generations. (heyoooo)
But seriously, first world countries are slowly trending below birth replacement rates and I'm worried there won't be enough people to keep all the nuclear reactors from exploding in a thousand years.
 
user559633
2:03 PM
morning cabbage
 
@Kevin assuming humanity won't fuck something up and disappear during those thousand years.
 
morning Tristan
 
As long as birth rates are dropping in high carbon emission populations, I'm fine with that. Inb4 industry emissions >>> personal emissions
 
user559633
@KevinMGranger whoa no java in the python room before i have my java
 
That's a latte ask.
(I think that was bit of a stretch...)
 
user559633
2:16 PM
 
How is that java?
Oh is that logical right-shift or something?
 
github.com/agronholm/typeguard/issues/6 seems that no one is using the project (2 watchers, me included), but at least it gets bug reports from BDFL.
 
DSM
"Follow the fun" isn't how I'd have described it-cabbage.
 
user559633
@KevinMGranger right shift zero fill
 
2:33 PM
Hey all....quick semi unrelated question. What kind of user data should I be logging? should I keep session duration, log in time, what they click etc?
 
user559633
@anshanno What do you want/need to log?
 
@anshanno How about none of the above
 
@tristan well, I want to log data that will allow me to detect fraudulent users so I can block em :)
@PeeHaa What would you log?
 
user559633
@anshanno define fraudulent
 
Nothing
 
2:36 PM
@PeeHaa what data do you use for analysis?
 
I use everything I can get my hands on and their mother
I am working for the advertisement industry enemy
 
What, and leave out their father?
 
Hell if I can get my hands on that I would log it
 
Breaking up logging families, how evil.
 
I am a stone cold logger
 
2:40 PM
@tristan Well I assume that I'd need location, what they do, actions over time, number of logins, session duration - general user data
 
user559633
@corvid if the blocker is data, stub it out. if it's design, put in something hackish and place the text somewhere "working interface until design is complete".
 
user559633
@anshanno Sorry, I'm trying to get you to enumerate the things you need to identify a valid user, and then the behaviors/actions that would lead you to think one is fraudulent on your application
 
@tristan I have to make an interface around a core piece of API functionality, but I can't get, put, or post to that part of the API, which means the interface is more or less worthless
 
user559633
@corvid I'd just mock the API and/or communicate that you're blocked upstream
 
what if it takes an unreasonable amount of effort? (it's a lot of advanced image and video processing that outputs a file on the server)
 
user559633
2:44 PM
that sounds like a job for communication
 
user559633
 
user559633
penny arcade still has it
 
@tristan my bad - To be honest, I don't know for certain. I was mainly looking for advice on which user data is typically logged...But I think you have prompted me to define types of users before generating a bunch of data. Thanks for the help :)
 
user559633
@anshanno No worries, for what it's worth, I wasn't rebuffing you, but trying to help you define what a normal user looks like as that's the standard that you measure non valid users against
 
@tristan Oh, I understood. I just figured I'd log a crap load of user data, cluster it, and look for correlations within the clusters to define the users. But I think your advice is more valuable and will create less work long term
 
user559633
2:59 PM
@anshanno There's such a thing as "too much logging" in terms of performance, cost (like, actual $money), maintenance overhead, and in the same way that you can add so many comments to a piece of code that it hurts readability. You can start with the basics -- user logins/new tokens being issued, auth failures, number of auth failures since last lockout, number of lockouts triggered sequentially (e.g. 3 password failed in 1 hour, got locked, another 3, got locked), when password resets get
2
 
user559633
requested, when password resets actually occur. Some more advanced stuff like watching the path that users take for analytics purposes. (chatbox limit on text, sorry for split)
 
over-logging is just as bad as no logging; when real issues arise, nobody looks at the logs since the SNR is too low.
 
user559633
Non-valid users will then appear when they deviate from what you'd expect to see. e.g. 5 sequential lockouts? That's probably a brute-force attempt (or reason to offer support). User paths start converging on login->billing data? You might want to go into maintenance mode.
 
Thanks guys! Very valuable feedback - do you know any books on the subject?
 
user559633
@anshanno I don't know of any books, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
3:11 PM
@tristan thanks again - ill do a search through safari!
 
user559633
@anshanno Cool. For what it's worth, I find user stories useful in this sort of thing. Tell the ~~story~~ of a user going to the site and think about where things could go wrong (log those) and what information you'd want (as a developer/support) to help out (that's your contextual information).
 
user559633
Bonus round: wear the hat of your 'fraudulent' user and watch the logs. If your actions are invisible, you found out what you need to improve.
 
@tristan Actions are one thing that my logs have plenty of. Very lackluster on everything else. Thanks again for the direction! I'll start with that route
 
user559633
@anshanno Good luck :) Let me know how things turn out
 
@tristan I'll be back once I have something :)

My goal is to have a simplistic data driven role based access control system
 
3:23 PM
> Due to some technical difficulties, PyCon 2017 Registration will open the week of October 24th
Still not open. Hurry up!
 
user559633
Portland, OR again? Why Seattle's slacker, stoner brother two years in a row?
 
They use the same location twice.
Next two years after this is Cleveland.
 
user559633
:| way to pick the location, guys
 
user559633
(thanks for the answer, i didn't know they used the same location twice in a row)
 
3:39 PM
I'm almost tempted to sign up to Ask Ubuntu just so I can upvote this answer. :)
 
rbrb
 
@PM2Ring Ah, I've seen that OP. Their answers are quite good
@AndyK rhubarb
 
Ok so eight months ago I said this:
Mar 21 at 16:19, by Kevin
It reminded me of a scan of a page floating around the Internet. The Joker is going around hitting people in the head with an enormous hammer, and in the first frame he chooses Clark Kent as his next target. The remainder of the page follows Superman's lengthy internal monologue in the next quarter of a second as he tries to decide how to take the hit without revealing he isn't human.
I couldn't find a link at the time, but I found it now.
In case anyone has been burning with curiosity for a hundred-odd days.
 
Oh, it's opened. Time to register!
... except there are still technical issues. :-(
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/40308714/… Typo. Also, answerer is convinced that numpy is the only way to generate random numbers.
 
4:00 PM
@MorganThrapp self deleted
 
That works.
 
Just registered for PyCon US 2017, you should too!
3
I'm super excited, it was a really great experience last year.
 
Let me know the next time it's hosted in Philly
 
Oooo, it's in Portland this year. I have family out there, so maybe I can save on hotels if I go.
 
user559633
Let me know the next time it's hosted in a place I want to visit :)
 
4:12 PM
@tristan knowing nothing about Portland before going there, I thought it was a really nice place to visit.
 
user559633
@davidism I think it's a one visit place and I've already been :)
 
user559633
(I'm mostly kidding. It has all that's required for a tech conference -- an airport, hotels, bars, room for seating)
 
user7081143
I am going to learn OOPs in python so i am planning to learn in order first : fundamentals of oops
then python oops
so would fundamental of oops will help in python ?
 
user559633
@maridlhr docs.python.org/3/tutorial have fun
 
user559633
I just realized that you can't plug in a new iPhone into the new Macbook Pro without using an adapter. lul.
 
4:23 PM
I would take Fundamentals of Oops. I assume it's just watching a bunch of old slapstick?
Yup, they're just so courageous that they're willing to make you buy more adapters. ;)
 
user559633
Holy lol what is Apple doing?
 
Being courageous by removing the function keys and replacing them with an Emoji bar?
3
Because the best buttons are software buttons. That's why the iPhone only has software buttons, right?
 
user559633
I was worried when I built a PC this summer that I'd end up with a machine that I never use because the Macbook Pro would come out with a GTX 1060 mobile and be badass, but instead they removed magsafe, gave it a junky gpu, went only USB-C (compatible with devices no one owns), removed thunderbolt/mini dp, gave it a little bump in specs, killed a row of keys in lieu of a touchscreen for...emoji and custom behavior for the 10 applications that will support it, and expect more money for it.
 
user559633
They're one more iOS-ification of OS X away from 2017 actually being year of Linux on the (developer) desktop. I might even buy next year's hardware from Dell or Microsoft. Is this real life? Did I fall left in the wormhole when I was meant to lean right?
 
Hey, I have USB-C. :P But yeah, I don't understand what they were thinking.
Honestly, the Dell XPS line or the new Surfaces are the most appealing laptops on the market to me right now.
 
user559633
4:33 PM
I don't think people really give a crap about touchscreens that aren't on specialized devices (ATMs, kiosks)
 
Agreed. Laptop touchscreens are the dumbest idea ever. I have no desire to have fingerprints all over my screen.
 
user559633
I think it's a designer/people-who-use-laptop-for-facebook-only thing
 
But that's what the iPad pro is for.
 
user559633
Haha, I forgot that thing existed.
 
I just want a new Power cube.
 
user559633
4:36 PM
Now that they've outsourced displays to plastic-covered LGs, I wonder if I can get another cinema display on the cheap. Also, I stream content...
 
I do want to try a 4k display at some point.
I did finally get an SSD at work.
 
user559633
My eyes aren't good enough to care about subpixels in 6px fonts while sitting at least half a meter away from the screen
 
I suspect mine aren't either. I'm just curious.
 
user559633
Also, I stream my content, so it will be upsampled anyway.
 

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