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1:00 PM
In fact it was much better than I thought! I even gave a code example!
 
@IntrepidBrit: that question is OT of course.
FWIW, I've been a happy Crashplan customer for some time now.
Although the Java UI is.. not ideal.
 
I help 1 nonprofit, they want a cheap backup solution, could that be it?
need to be for non-tech-savvy ppl
 
Crashplan may be a tad technical.
 
that is, their savviness is good enough so that they know what a folder is and memory stick and which folder they are saving the stuff
 
I do like the price though.
You can use the software for free to back up to someone else running Crashplan.
It's the cloud backup destination that they charge for.
So far it has saved my bacon when it came to restoring.
 
1:05 PM
even the cloud backup didnt seem too expensive
the current solution was 35 €/month for 25 G
 
I picked it back when for the price and cross-platform capability. Runs on Linux and Mac, my son uses it to run on his Windows dual-boot part too.
 
@AnttiHaapala Laurel Artichoke? Django Bananas.
 
the problem being ofc that 23 left of that 25 G
 
@AnttiHaapala yeah, Crashplan can beat that hands down.
 
the 500 € per yr is pretty big money for them... for something where ~free alternatives exist
not artichoke here, Django beans, if you are doing a serious cabbage.
 
1:08 PM
I have the long-term family plan. For 500 EUR they can take the 4 year family plan and cover up to 10 computers with unlimited storage.
 
@Ffisegydd Woo! Nice job ;)
 
How's it going anyway mucker?
 
@MartijnPieters Yeah. I use to save and backup my family's stuff. We're very cross platform and distributed. Being able to have a few backup stores across the UK is mega
But yeah, I almost left SO because I was like: my answer fixes all the problems of criteria, can be free and sorted. cue a load of downvotes. I was like: what the yam?!
@Ffisegydd Not well, the tax man has taxed me twice for the same amount and am trying to fight and get my money back
 
@Intrepid urgh. I've been lucky in that my only issues with The Man have been dealt with relatively quickly and painlessly.
 
@AnttiHaapala Beans? Lettuce...?
 
1:13 PM
@Ffisegydd There is much wailing and nashing of teeth just now.
 
I so need a life
 
How's things in Welshland?
 
Nearly finished my PhD o.o Need to find a job.
 
a mate jokingly said, "bet you don't know the square root of 51"
 
7.2ish?
 
1:14 PM
A year and a half ago, I answered a question about how to find all primes smaller than X. Today the post got a comment from a stranger saying, "how do I make this find all the prime factors of X instead?"
 
I replied 7.14
 
7 2/15
 
I am currently trying to find a tactful wording of "that has nothing to do with the original problem, figure it out yourself" without him revenge-downvoting me.
 
@Ffisegydd bzt. Jon is correct, you are too low.
 
Also, from the details in his comment, it's apparent that he only read a quarter of my actual post, so I'm not feeling very charitable towards him.
 
1:15 PM
7 2/15th would have been closer.
 
how do I even bloody know that?
 
eidetic memory?
 
Man, could this guy have chosen a more ambiguous title?
 
give me pen and paper and ask me to do some long division == fail
 
I usually approximate them as previous_sqrt + (number-previous_sqrt)/(next_sqrt-previous_sqrt)
 
1:17 PM
@Kevin it's a dupe anyway.
 
So 51 gives you 7 + 2/15
 
@Ffisegydd which is 2/15th, you said 1/15th. :-P
 
or, say for instance, 12 * 14
same as 13 squared minus 1
 
I had a Maths teacher that made us learn all the square numbers up to 25**2 when I was 12. Still remember them to this day.
 
I only learned up to 13**2 :-(
 
1:19 PM
@Ffisegydd I knew my 12 times tables by 5
 
Show off.
 
apparently, our government now is cracking down on schools that don't that by 11 or something
 
I lost patience with times tables around 7, so I have to do 7*x and 8*x problems the long way.
For 9 you can cheat, because X*9 = 10*(X-1) + (10-X) for one digit values of X
 
@Ffisegydd well, was doing quadratic equations at 8 so...
 
1 min ago, by Ffisegydd
Show off.
 
1:21 PM
@Kevin: hrm, that question has many more problems.
 
Or, as I formulated it in first grade, "subtract one from X, then find a second number that makes the whole thing add to 9"
 
Using pos rather than itemDetails, for instead of while, booleans like they are using English grammar.
 
@MartijnPieters What a mess. I think I'll limit my involvement to editing the title ;-)
 
@Ffisegydd well, if it's any consolation, didn't really get my head around calculus until 12
 
It may need re-opening, but the question is so low quality I'm not inclined to anymore.
 
1:22 PM
(and even that, I wonder if I really should have done)
 
1 min ago, by Ffisegydd
1 min ago, by Ffisegydd
Show off.
I can go all day brah.
 
47 secs ago, by Ffisegydd
1 min ago, by Ffisegydd
1 min ago, by Ffisegydd
Show off.
All the way up to, what number again?
 
51 :P
 
never had to use those things in my life though
 
I like davidism's idea for Agenda #4
Need to have a think about some ideas, but we could start with simple weekly burninate and/or clean-up-python sessions.
 
1:26 PM
compute the specified area under a triangle contained within a hypercube
 
No! I won't! You can't make me!
 
it's olay... my head just goes bang anyway
 
Question ... Why are a few stars hollow and a few solid? -------> ref: right
 
Pins vs stars.
ROs can pin items so they stick to the top of the board (and are denoted as hollow).
 
Oh ... Ok ...
 
1:30 PM
a mate and I had a challenge to compute the surface area of a pyramid structure in a 37 hyper-cube
ran through a notepad for that one, and still never worked it out
can a 3d object exist in 37 space... blah blah
 
@Ffisegydd who're you voting for this year? (if you don't mind my asking)
 
No one. Same as last time.
 
needs to do a little more research into the local Indepdant...
 
1:38 PM
@Pureferret that's very cool.
 
@Ffisegydd If I've done it right
 
otherwise, I'm going to spoil my ballot
 
I've yet to find a political part worth voting for.
 
@Ffisegydd Some come close
 
Most of the parties have some good ideas, but they also have bad ideas. I refuse to "pick the lesser of N evils" though, I'd rather not pick.
 
1:42 PM
@Ffisegydd You'd rather let someone else pick for you?
 
haha :D
NOOO
fizzygood maybe you win the game that way
 
@Pureferret pretty much. I exercise my democratic right to tell them all to eff off.
The problem is that if I voted for any of the parties, I would be supporting ideas that I do not agree with.
 
@Ffisegydd UKIP will get seats - no doubt
 
cbg
 
but it is true, Adolf Schicklgruber from NSDAP will get your vote if you do not give it to anyone else.
 
1:44 PM
@PM2Ring cbg
 
Old anarchist saying: No matter who you vote for, a politician always wins.
5
 
@Ffisegydd so, you should start your own party
 
By not voting do you not effectively give each of the N parties a vote of 1/N? As you reduce the total number of votes VTOT by 1.
 
I have knowingly voted for 1 egotistical bastard 3 times, for I am an egotistical bastard.
 
@AnttiHaapala some counties force people to vote#]
 
1:50 PM
I read an interesting article the other month. It argued that it doesn't count as "throwing your vote away" if you vote for a party that has no chance of winning. The reasoning being, next election cycle, frontrunners will look at the previous cycle's numbers and say "obscure party X got Y votes, maybe we should incorporate some of their values into our platform".
It's a useful viewpoint to keep in mind in systems dominated by only two parties, like the US
So feel free to vote for "the campaign to make all politicians stop being jerks, and also give everyone a pony"
 
Is it true to say that a BFS can be easily implemented with a queue while a DFS can be easily implemented with a stack?
 
to me in a democratic counrty... I also have a right to not vote
 
@Ffisegydd We have one of the lowest requirements in the world for standing for politics, so more normal people should be running for government than the current Eton elite
 
@Kevin it depends on the system
does not happen in Finland... the throw-away parties are pretty obscure
like the Finnish pirate party LOL
 
The thing I like about our dated democracy? We don't vote for a parties, we elect a representative. Ultimately, we've forgotten that we should never vote for a party, we should elect someone to represent us. Ie - "don't vote for the yamface"
So I (generally) don't care for the candidate's party - I look more at the candidate.
 
1:54 PM
yeah, single transferable vote could be something...
 
I live in a Lib Dem seat, will be interesting to see if he keeps it.
Bath is a constituency in the House of Commons of the Parliament of the United Kingdom represented since 1992 by Don Foster of the Liberal Democrats. Perhaps its best-known representatives have been the two with international profiles: William Pitt the Elder (Prime Minister 1766–1768) and Chris Patten. == History == Bath is an ancient constituency which has been constantly represented in Parliament since boroughs were first summoned to send members in the 13th century. === The unreformed constituency (before 1832) === Bath was one of the cities summoned to send members in 1295 and repre...
 
in Finland the Pirate party was the largest party that didn't get any seats...
 
I would still prefer political leaders to be perfect incorruptible superintelligent AIs who want what's best for humanity and yet don't coddle or stymie our freedom. But I guess a weasel in a suit is just as good.
 
We should have politicians that don't want to be politicians.
 
I read a proposal for a cryptogovernment: When the previous president steps down, one citizen is chosen at random to be president, but nobody tells him.
 
1:59 PM
I always liked the idea (but don't think it would actually work, and only liked it in a "that'd be kinda cool" way) of having no politicians and everyone votes on matters as they come up.
"Oooh look, today we're voting on whether to invade France or not!"
 
A team of eavesdroppers hang around 24/7 listening to anything that could be construed as an executive order, like "somebody should do something about Syria"
After a year, or whenever he catches on, they pick a new candidate.
@Ffisegydd Tricky part there is, deciding when things should come to a vote
 
Allow people to put forward motions, and if they get a certain percentage of notice then put them forward for debate in the WorldSphere.
 
@Ffisegydd We have that. It's mostly ad hoc solutions to parts of laws or a knee jerk reaction to current events. There's little well thought out motions.
 
That would be the problem.
 
2:04 PM
I expect then, a single block of voters will constantly put forward motions like "shall we change the flag's color from #FF0000 to #FF0101?" effectively flooding the ballots with worthless items so everyone else loses interest. Then while no one is watching, they push actual important issues which only they vote on
 
I don't think it would work in practice, but I've read it in several futuristic sci-fi books and always liked it.
@Kevin that's why you need a perfect incorruptible superintelligent AI who will help organise the ballots. Then you can filter for what you're interested in.
 
I'm not saying the idea is bad, but people don't take the advantage of it.
 
"a perfect incorruptible superintelligent AI helped" is the scifi variant of "a wizard did it" ;-)
 
They call it "black box" in machine learning. :)
 
I think they had something like it in Hyperion, but they still had a government, it's just people could debate.
 
2:06 PM
in Athens the officeholders would be selected by lot
perfect incorruptible superintelligent AI such as skynet
"Oh you 7 billion think I am wrong... no, you're wrong... do you think this is some kind of demockrasy
 
I for one welcome our new perfect incorruptible superintelligent AI overlord.
 
I think government works most effectively for small populations, like 1000. Therefore, the best system is to use impenetrable 100 foot tall adamantium walls to divvy up the surface of the Earth into such small communities.
 
user559633
With BEOpen.com as it relates to Python, what's the story? The wikipedia summary is useful in that it leaves out almost all important detail
 
@AnttiHaapala That's why I put "...who want what's best for humanity" in my original statement. Automatically excludes Skynet from candidacy.
 
so you mean there is 1 set of values there?
you get 1 weight vector of everything and execute decisions based on it?
 
2:11 PM
@warvariuc: welcome!
 
user559633
I assume it was a company founded to collect donations and revenue to support core dev, but then it almost immediately stopped being a thing
 
Creating a new list object for the slice isn't all that expensive
 
@AnttiHaapala Good question. You know who would be qualified to answer that? A superintelligent incorruptible AI ;-)
 
if you really have to optimise for that case you can create a wrapper that transposes indices.
 
user559633
it seems as if its creation coincided with the release of python2, which is why it's still all over the codebase, and then went away
 
2:12 PM
but that's all rather more advanced optimisation to immediately go teach beginners in a language.
 
Oh on that Django malarky I was mentioning earlier,
Has anyone used it with Generic M2M fields?
 
"The Python development team's leader, Guido Van Rossum, has just announced in an open letter that he is moving with his team to the Open Source startup, BeOpen.com. Guido and his team will now be devoting their full energies to Python developement and continuing with such innovative projects as Python 3000."
 
Hello people, I must wait 90 minutes to ask a question, but may be you can help me because it is urgent. I am reading a picture which is green. When I type ` a=self.img[100,100,0]
b=self.img[100,100,1]
c=self.img[100,100,2]` and display them, I get 255 255 255 instead of 0 255 0. Why ?
 
Depends on what library you're using
 
bc that pixel is white
notice that the coordinates are zero-based
as to "I must wait 90 minutes to ask a question", there is a reason, maybe you ask too much and discover too little by yourself
 
2:18 PM
@AnttiHaapala you saved my day !!!!!! thank you so much !!! in fact some areas of the picture are totally white.
 
how can we know what kind of image you have and even if it does have any green pixels (0, 255, 0)... or sth.
 
@AnttiHaapala That didn't last all that long.
Because it turned out Beopen had no business plan.
 
He did say "I am reading a picture which is green", but apparently that's not the whole picture ;-)
 
@AnttiHaapala I thought the pixel is green, but I forgot that some areas of the picture are totally white.
 
Shortly after that move the whole team moved to Zope Corporation and Guido and I became colleagues.
 
2:20 PM
always remember what you're working on
@MartijnPieters so what is this beopen, I do not know what it was
 
It was a Dot.com pipedream company
 
@Martijn we're going to have to add "Amusing anecdotes involving Guido" to the meeting agenda :P
 
It hired several Python core developers including Guido, to form Python Labs.
It was going to do Python consultancy, or something.
The or something part was very vague.
 
pipedream, now that's new
 
@MartijnPieters i typed beopen.com on internet and it says domain for sale, so this means the company does not exist yet
 
2:22 PM
so how did all the dutch ppl end up at digital creations? :D
 
So there was a release of Python under their umbrella but the whole thing was a ship full of holes just waiting to run out of money to plug those holes.
@PythonLearner It doesn't exist anymore.
 
was guido like some sort of god or sth in netherlands
 
This was back in 2000 or so.
@AnttiHaapala He was and is a Dutch bloke with a sense for programming languages.
He was a researcher at a computer research falicity.
CNRI.
erm, CNRI was the place he joined in VA..
 
yes I know but I am asking you
 
Ah, CWI.
I hadn't met him before moving to VA myself.
 
2:24 PM
so by happenstance only?
 
I did my very first Zope project for two colleagues of his.
The had spun out a company to build a SMIL editor.
and I provided the web shop for licenses.
 
Hehe, Wikipedia even lists it: Grins by Oratrix
 
0
Q: g++ 4.9.2 regression on pass reference to 'this'

slonmaThis is a minimized part of Pointer to implementation code: template<typename T> class PImpl { private: T* m; public: template<typename A1> PImpl(A1& a1) : m(new T(a1)) { } }; struct A{ struct AImpl; PImpl<AImpl> me; A(); }; struct A::AImpl{ const A* ppub; AImpl(c...

omg
 
@AnttiHaapala you were right, I changed the coordinates of the pixel and it says it is dominated by green color. Thank you a lot again
 
Sjoerd Mullender and Jack Janssen; the latter maintained Mac Python for quite some time. Blast from the past: code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/1003
 
again I usually would say now "no prob"... but this time it is like you are asking the same thing again and again, please just stop and think twice before you ask "can this be right". Usually Python and the computer knows better than you...
 
Right, time to stop reminiscing.
 
@PythonLearner there is also a very good reason for a question ban:
 
Why do people edit their answer to include others' answers ... It looks like as if I've copied
 
where?
 
here He edited it after I posted my ans
 
I highly doubt he was copying you on purpose.
 
nope, there is no copying there :d
 
2:42 PM
I know how to compare 2 matrices using Numpy. But does Numpy allow to get the items that are different between 2 matrices ?
 
mu 無 has even better answer that is differnet from yours
 
Not that he copied ... But it looks like I copied
 
@PythonLearner subtract these 2 matrices, now the differing have non-zero
 
@PythonLearner Google around maybe?
 
@AnttiHaapala wow ! smart way of thinking ! thank you really !
 
2:44 PM
It's amazing what you'll find and learn if you do your own research.
 
@Ffisegydd trust me I googled before asking
 
@PythonLearner can you believe I learned programming without internet??!
I couldn't ask anyone
 
@DanielVaughan That's too new to be brought to the chatroom
 
back then we had these things called books.
 
2:45 PM
@PythonLearner either you're terrible at googling or you're lying.
 
whats a book?
 
1 message moved to Trash can
Sorry @Daniel. Please see sopython.com/chatroom for the chatroom rules.
 
@AnttiHaapala that is something only Finns can do because they have the advantage of eating karjalanpiirakka
 
yes, and Finns usually know when to Finnish asking questions :D
 
Wait so I broke the rules by saying "what's a book?", confused? Oh never mind. Sorry for posting my question hadn't realised it was against the rules to do it so soon.
 
2:48 PM
@Daniel nah you broke the rules for posting the question too soon :)
 
1 message moved to Trash can
 
Setting up a simple testing framework for KS, paying off dividends already. Apparently a blank source file is not valid syntax.
 
Good luck with your project though :)
 
thanks
 
2:49 PM
@overexchange please see sopython.com/chatroom for the chatroom rules.
 
Nor is if (False){;} else{print "success"}, but only squares use else.
Oh, I missed a semicolon in the else block, that's why.
Should have guessed from the user friendly error message no action found for Token('}', '}', (41, 684))
 
@Kevin yeah...
 
so the answer to the question Why does Python break with a parsing error on my OS X Yosemite system turned out to be: Because you broke file Python tried to parse.
 
cbg @davidism
 
cbg
 
3:11 PM
@BhargavRao, thanks for your feedback. Didn't spot those other int calls, at first.
 
@Kevin Was debugging the code, while you had answered ...
There is a dupe of this stackoverflow.com/q/28347411/4099593
I have seen it on SO recently
 
I so want that guy banned :D
I spent almost all of my daily flags on that guy
@Ffisegydd ^ there again
 
@Kevin What is the best way to do this in Python3 ... Doesn't the OP just want to know the better way?
 
depends on what "this" is.
 
I guess he meant % or format
 
3:21 PM
@Kevin just tell there that % has corner cases that will make OP shoot in the foot
and that ".format is the best for n00bs"
 
If "this" is "using the percent operator to format a string, and redirecting the print to a different file-like object", then my answer is correct. If "this" is "formatting the string through any means necessary, and redirecting print", then his third code block answers his own question.
Since the latter case is absurd, since he wouldn't ask a question he already knew the answer to, only the former case remains.
 
Oh. .. Fine ...Ok
 
so just state: "if you want to do it this way it is like this, but if I were doing it, I'd do the #3"
 
Ok, I've added my "use format instead' opinion
 
If there was an option to upvote twice ... Your answer just requires it
 
3:25 PM
In regards to whether this question is a dupe: yeah, I've seen people misunderstand the placement of % in precisely this way before. But I don't have a link handy and don't know what I would search for to find it.
If anyone else can provide a solid dupe target, I'll be happy to hammer it myself.
 
I have seen nearly the same ... And it's not even there in my browser history
 
now I hate C++ even more
68
Q: Why do we need a pure virtual destructor in C++?

MarkI understand the need for a virtual destructor. But why do we need a pure virtual destructor? In one of the C++ articles, the author has mentioned that we use pure virtual destructor when we want to make a class abstract. But we can make a class abstract by making any of the member functions as...

how can 1 programming language be so damned difficult
 
Because the intelligence of a committee is considerably smaller than the sum of its parts
That's why all KevinScript design decisions are made by me and only me, and as a result it is a perfect clarion call of elegance, a shining beacon on a hill which inspires the peasants to pull themselves out of the mud.
 
3:41 PM
uh huh.
 
uhhuh what? :d
 
To Kevin's...opinion...on KS :P
Oh God. Mind == Blown! Kevin's last name is actually Script. He's literally Kevin Script and he codes KevinScript.
 
the real question is which one will be released first: KevinScript or Perl6 :d
 
Unfortunately, most people wear the comically oversized sombrero of ignorance, and so can't see the beacon on the hill.
KevinScript is already released. Anyone can download the code and run it straight away.
 
I run straight away without downloading anything :d
 
3:45 PM
there's a cat in my hood
 
@corvid pics or it didn't happen.
 
Neighborhood? Car hood? Sweatshirt hood? ... some other kind of hood? A lot of these don't end well.
 
this week I have doubled my helpful flags
 
451/500 and I've got maybe 10 more active. I can nearly taste the gold badge.
 
Now, when KS 1.0 will be released, is another matter.
 
3:47 PM
-1
A: Android setting development or production environment

Droid_GravityYou can use different Base Url for both staging server or a production server from Rails .And on testing for Staging put the Staging URl and in main Put the Production URl. exp: http://stage.example.com/filename. http://example.com/filename.

posted that as lowq, ppl think it is a linkonly answer :D
 
I think at the very least I need type() and import to work, and maybe get a REPL going
 
voting to close as opinion based. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
 
going to delete.
 
I think Avinash was asking whether anyone here could help Natty, who has just joined the room :)
 
3:49 PM
@Natty_E cabbage!
 
Welcome @Natty! I am actually currently going the other way, I'm experienced in Python and learning R :P
 
Welcome @Natty_E :-)
 
@Ffisegydd i won't ask for any help :) ...
 
Just discovered the chat rooms, I'd never even noticed them on this site haha. They should be more clearly advertised :P
 
3:50 PM
done
 
you're not the only one
 
@AnttiHaapala ASking for upvotes???
done:)
 
Hmm, doesn't the Python wiki have a page for "I already know X language, how should I learn Python" tutorials?
 
@Ffisegydd where would you start, if you were me?
 
do not use learnpythonthehardway like that comment just suggested
 
3:52 PM
@Natty_E Here is a collection of resources for Python learners that already know another language.
 
why ? @davidism
 
I don't see anything specific for R users, however
 
for ppl who knows R, would say that "IPython notebooks"
 
@Natty I like to learn a new language by picking up a project. Where you should start depends on what you want to do. For example, if you're looking to do things like R, data analysis etc, then I'd suggest the pandas package as it basically incorporates R DataFrames.
 
@AvinashRaj because it generates terrible stack overflow questsions. Basically, the way it's laid out encourages people to try things that they aren't prepared for yet, and then rather than reading more of the book they stop and post questions here.
 
3:53 PM
So you could pick up a tutorial from that link above to quickly learn the basics, then start using numpy/scipy/pandas/matplotlib which are the main numerical/data/plotting packages.
 
@AvinashRaj Zed Shaw gives some distinctly unorthodox advice in LPTHW ... and the Python questions that crop up from people following it tend to suggest they've ended up getting quite confused by it.
 
If you wanted to do something that is more general, then just pick a project area (say web development), find a tutorial (you could ask in here once you've picked an area maybe?) and then start writing code :)
 
I've been looking at the pandas package. I basically started with a simple course on CodeAcademy. I'm a statistician and I use R every day, but jobs I keep looking at require Python, so I figured I should learn it. I'm going to try and do my basic R analyses in Python during my day to day job.
 
@Natty_E you probably want to delete that question, it isn't a good fit for SO, and you've found us now :)
 
The main site isn't as tolerant and enlightened as us ;-)
 
3:56 PM
anyone know how i can compile a program written in python
which uses matplotlib backend?
 
DSM
Morning cabbage for all.
 
Yeah pandas is awesome. The main Python data stack is numpy (numerical python), scipy (scientific python), pandas (panelled data, or DataFrames), matplotlib (mathematical plotting), statsmodels (statistical models).
 
@Inthuson Have you tried py2exe and cx-freeze? Those are the libraries I hear all the time during compilation discussions.
 
They're kinda interlinked and generally work nicely with each other.
 
@Inthuson you don't compile python programs
 
3:57 PM
i tried using cx-freeze but it cant compile properly cause of egg files in matplotlib @Kevin
 
@Natty_E Funny that. I'm actually looking for jobs in statistics/data analysis and so I'm learning R :P
 
Yeah, my perception of the libraries is that they don't play nicely with third party dependencies
 
hmmm /: what are my options? @Kevin
 
DSM
@Natty_E: yeah, by using pandas + statsmodels you can accomplish a lot of everyday stats work. There are a lot of R packages which don't have a Python equivalent, admittedly.
 
I think there's some way to extract eggs when installing them into a virtualenv
but the real answer is "Don't use Windoze"
 

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