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4:45 AM
cbg guys
 
4:56 AM
cbg
 
 
2 hours later…
6:53 AM
Cbg :)
 
Cabbage Cake
 
 
3 hours later…
9:55 AM
You've earned the "Steward" badge (Completed at least 1,000 review tasks. This badge is awarded once per review type) for reviewing "Low Quality Posts".
 
10:09 AM
Wow.
You're a bloody masochist.
@Jon was just reading the API docs and found "API responses are heavily cached. Polling for changes should be done sparingly in any case, and polling at a rate faster than once a minute (for semantically identical requests) is considered abusive."
Will this trip us up when trying to keep track of posts within the grace period?
 
@Ffisegydd seems that exactly the close queue numbers are too heavily cached
which grace?
editing?
 
@Antti yeah we were also planning on trying to keep track of changes during the grace period (probably just the first one for a new post rather than subsequent edits).
 
@Ffisegydd so I think enough to just scan at 0 and 5 mins
but yeah, might not be quite possible
 
10:46 AM
so anyone here used vowpal wabbit before?
 
No but I'm going to give it a try this weekend.
Maybe even tonight
 
i am trying it on unrelated task here
now about to
 
Yeah I'm going to try it on an unrelated, smaller task first.
 
so far I know a) it has online learning mode, b) active learning mode, c) daemon
now I am trying to find out
 
There's a Python 3 fork of the wrapper by the way
 
10:48 AM
how to get it into online learning mode using one against all, and as a daemon so that I could get the results out
ah vw does not require any lib really
 
Boost IIRC
 
for python
you can send to and read lines from socket
plain text with labels and features
what I am trying to find out is
how to save the model in file
cannot afford to retrain the model from input all the time
 
When you run the vm you give it a -f flag I think?
@Antti see here for example vw house_dataset -l 10 -c --passes 25 --holdout_off -f house.model
 
yes but it is not online
 
Then I think you can load it back in using -i
I don't know what you mean by online, do you mean being able to retrieve results while it's being updated?
 
11:01 AM
yes
that is where the power comes from
 
There is a cache file that is used. I wonder if you could access the cache file in a separate subprocess?
 
i know already how to do everything else I guess
but not how to save the model to file for real
i is initial regressor and f is final regressor
 
@Jon I've tidied up the Question Features lists and put it all together in one card trello.com/c/uATsrsbj/13-question-features
 
If instead of --active_simulation, --active_learning is specified (together with --daemon) real active learning is implemented (examples are passed to VW via a TCP/IP port and VW responds with its prediction as well as how much it wants this example to be labeled if at all). If this is confusing, watch Daniel's explanation at the VW tutorial. The active learning algorithm is described in detail in Agnostic Active Learning without Constraints.
@Ffisegydd there you go, this is what it ought to do
so active learning, it should go like that you pass them an example with features,
vw will answer with prediction, and tell how much it wants it to be labelled by hand too
so if it is closer to 1, then you can label it again by hand: send labels followed by the features (from previous step)
 
cbg all
 
11:17 AM
cbg
 
I think I am in love with vowpal wabbit
must be the best thing to come from microsoft
 
yo!
and a cabbage unto thee
 
11:38 AM
Cbg
What is the best way to put "Select..." text into select field in Django Form?
 
you mean a choicefield?
 
@limelights: yes, forms.ChoiceField
 
form.ChoiceField(choices=CHOICES)
where CHOICES are either a tuple or a list of values.
so like, ["select...", "stuff", "junk"]
 
@limelights thanks
 
nps
 
11:54 AM
@Ffisegydd which vw lib did you talk about
 
wabbit_wappa. There is a fork for python 3 too on Github by a different guy
I'll link it when I get back to office if you haven't found it
 
hmm
I just forked ww to åport it to py3
nope
shit
it is py3 ONLY
and it is wrong
 
@Antti yeah I saw a few mistakes in the examples where the forker had just used 2to3 and missed some parts that 2to3 doesn't fix.
The particular case I saw involved cmp
 
@Ffisegydd all fixes there are wrong
try:
    basestring
except:
    basestring = str
this preferred
then there is a peek for the '\n'
it should use endswith
- if buf[-1] == '\n':
+ if buf[-1] == 10: # 10 is ascii \n
nope, just buf.endswith(b'\n')
troves had already 2.6 and 2.7
just annoying to not use from future imports then
 
user559633
12:12 PM
In multiprocessing, do daemon processes get killed at the end of the main execution loop or are they really backgrounded?
 
user559633
i.e. are daemonized processes orphans?
 
hem an orphanized process is someone whose parent dies
 
user559633
yes.
 
user559633
or exits normally
 
user559633
never mind! tested. daemonized processes are quietly terminated on exit. which makes sense
 
12:17 PM
You know @tristan before you come here and dump your problems maybe you want to test things yourself. We're not your private codemonkeys. (TROLLOLOLOLOL)
。◕ ‿ ◕。
 
user559633
Hah, I did test things myself! I was just confused because documentation suggests that the interpreter does the right thing, but I had a tmux session that was detached that was running the daemonized client I wrote.
 
user559633
 
@Ffisegydd my fork will be here: github.com/ztane/wabbit_wappa
if and when it works I will send pull request
 
@Antti awesome
 
but
didnt fix much anything yet there :d
# Test whether the floating-point prediction is in the right direction
if cmp(prediction, 0) == label:
just the stupidest ever ...
 
12:22 PM
Yeah I know.
 
how to fix that nicely ...
if label * prediction >= 0
 
@Ffisegydd demos work now
I guess I might do the pull request now
bwaa wrong line endings
@Ffisegydd döner
 
12:38 PM
That's awesome dude. Hopefully the guy accepts it.
 
ofc not, "I like python 2 more"
:D
so just wonder how to write the damned active learning demo from there into a file
so it seems that can send empty features for commands
 
Looks like quite an active mailing list which is good.
 
but did you see, can save the regressor to a file just by sending the daemon a command
but not documented anywhere...
i think the vw lib must be also wrong
it relies on packets not be split elsewhere except \n
 
1:08 PM
cabbage, gentlemen
 
cbg
 
I just noticed I've earned 100 bonus rep on all (or a lot of) stackoverflow sites, "because we trust you on other sites in the network". It looks almost like phishing, except there's no luring link to click. I think it's kosher, but I doubt enough to ask..
 
It's kosher.
Once you hit 300 rep you get 101 rep on all other sites instantly.
Means if you join another community you can have access to the basic privileges.
 
cbg
@Ffisegydd thanks for your pings
 
cbg puppy
 
1:15 PM
@Ffisegydd it's 200 rep - not 300
 
Ah ok. Did I ping you? Oh about the Trello?
 
Ah. Thank you. Learning all the time.. :-)
 
Got 50-60 ideas now on there.
 
and the api caching
 
Oh yeah that :(
I'm currently going through closed questions to see if there's any features I can spot
 
1:17 PM
I envisage the api not being used that often.... we'll take all the information from the web sockets as it happens (no noticeable limit on that... at least not to watch all new python questions for an hour or so) we then schedule a job that queries the mos recent ids against the api to spot deleted and closed questions as they're not included in the sockets
 
Ah ok cool. I didn't realise the websockets would be so useful.
 
anw I can now do vw :P
know how to do active learning on it
and how to save intermediate models
 
Awesome.
@Antti so now you can simply add data as you get it and then retrieve a model for use in predictions at any intermediate point?
 
That is very cool, and very powerful.
 
1:20 PM
and occasionally hit save to get the regressor into a file
 
And the API takes bulk queries, so we can just set up a filter to only include close status... to minimise the response size, missing IDs are presumably deleted, then update close status against the info. already gathered
 
so that you can start with vw -i foo.model after crash say
 
Wheee, that was a fun one.
 
some things to get are the timestamps etc
I think one good is how soon it is closed :D
 
Mentor session on CodeMentor, teaching someone about Python coding and refactoring and exceptions and APIs
 
1:22 PM
@MartijnPieters how long?
 
I've got a fair few features now
Not all of them are necessarily good, I'm just adding anything I can think of.
Can remove the chaff later.
 
@Ffisegydd the vw can compress the features using hashing, so
can have lots more than "certain keywords"
 
Yeah I know, I'm keeping it brief for now. The hashing is certainly useful.
Can just pass it a cleaned sentence
 
also all of them can have the value, for example then can use profanities:42
 
1:24 PM
@Ffisegydd well - it's handy to just "blue sky" it, then we filter out what is useless/not very productive later
 
@Antti I assume in VW there is some way to retrieve how useful certain features are? (For example "feature1 is very useful in making predictions whilst feature2 shows no dependencies") which will help us to remove features that aren't productive.
 
pep8 then it should detect that this is python, (as opposed to php, javascript) then detect the indentation at least
@Ffisegydd yes I think so, but the features are cross correlated methinks too ...
I think the quantification is the important thing
say with pep8 then analyze again the number of pep8 violations
 
Yeah definitely.
And can use 1/0 for True/False issues like "Is there a Traceback?"
 
the "feature not present" methinks is 0
 
I think the value defaults to 1 for features (and any features that aren't in a dataset are 0)
Yeah.
 
1:28 PM
rhubarb...
 
rbrb @RolfBly
 
@AnttiHaapala 1 hour; first 15 free offer for new customers.
 
first 15 hours free? - sounds like a bargain :)
 
stupid customer :D
 
15 days free!?
 
1:30 PM
just 1 hour
I would have pestered martijn for 15 hours :D
 
We could generate a list of docs for the main packages from pypi and then look for URLs to those too
 
@Ffisegydd sounds adventurous :)
 
Well then we could split "useful" urls (SO, python.org, packages) from non-useful.
Would only have to update the list every few weeks to catch any new ones.
 
1:47 PM
cbg
 
wb @vaultah
Right... gotta get a couple of bits done - rbrb for now
 
1:59 PM
@tristan wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2014/09/european-startups may be of interest to you. There's a few articles on different cities, including one on Berlin.
 
2:14 PM
analyticbridge.com what an ugly website.
 
user559633
Cheers :D
 
user559633
"Europe's hottest startups 2014: Moscow" Oops.
 
user559633
"Clue adds female fertility to the quantified-self movement by allowing women to track their monthly fertile cycle. " this got funding? couldn't this just be a tickmark on a calendar?
 
Yeah but I assume it can use analytics to make predictions.
Which a calendar on your wall can't do.
 
Cabbage y'all
 
2:23 PM
cbg
 
How's today treating folks?
 
Bored.
You?
 
Shattered, and am basically useless for coding things that I want to work tomorrow
(Was up 'til 3am helping a client)
Debating whether I should anticipate said client's next requirements today or if I should just facedesk
 
Go for a pint.
 
is youtube down?
 
user559633
2:31 PM
@Ffisegydd that cycle follows the calendar. Anyway, I should tap into the lucrative "wants to spawn" market. Edit: with software/technology, not as a genetic material donor
 
@tristan doesn't exactly follow the calendar though.
 
@Ffisegydd Near the shipyards?! Are you mad? :p
 
user559633
Which shipyards?
 
Rosyth
Actually, I'll take this chance to take a wee shufti at what's happen with SOP
 
user559633
we have reached peak british
 
2:42 PM
@tristan Pft. Son, you've not seen anything yet.
But clearly at least one grammatical mistake
Ha! Didn't know SO had a podcast. How have I managed to miss that?
 
is for Booleans?
 
"is" is for identity
 
Yeh I understand
And I've always used it myself for just None, "because"
But could the boolean operators ever have multiple instances?
So could True is True ever be False?
 
No they're singletons.
Same as None is.
 
@IanClark (Likewise - for the most part)
 
2:53 PM
That's what I would have though. So it's OK - is it what you should do for them?
I guess there's not much of an additional overhead to doing ==
 
Python 3.x stops you re-assigning them now
 
@JonClements Jon Jon, we're not at 27 yet ;)
 
True = False is always fun as a joke :)
 
As usual, I'm going to advocate for not testing for truth in expressions, but for truthiness: prefer if expression: over if expression == True: or if expression is True:
 
user559633
@IanClark what do you mean by "should do for them?"
 
2:54 PM
I'm just trying to refactor some nastiness and I have a "x is True" statement. I'm saying is that the suggested way to check
 
user559633
what about if id(expression) is id(True) :P
 
@IanClark I'd say no. I'm with @Kevin on this one
 
@Ian only if you want to explicitly check it's the True object... normally - that's not really the case though
You normally just want it to be truthy not false
 
Well I guess re @Kevin et al. - I suppose the OP of this code wanted to explicitly check
 
You'd need bool(x) is True surely anyway?
 
2:57 PM
It's funny in Duck-typing land you advocate this falsey attitude and in JS land we loathe it
 
One might argue, "but what if my function foo can return True, False, or "FILE NOT FOUND"? Then if foo(): has different behavior than if foo() is True:"
My response would be, that's a dumb way to write a function.
 
Hah, looking more closely at this code, they're doing a .get() - so I guess they don't want None to fall into this category
 
@Kevin beat me to saying - take the programmer out and smack him out about
 
Come Python 4 we need to make a new singleton called OUTOFCHEESE to go along with True and False.
It'll indicate when everything has gone to hell.
 
i.e. default is False
 
2:58 PM
@Ian the default is None - have they explicitly specificed False instead?
 
@JonClements: no, that's what I'm getting at
They're not doing if foo.get(bar, False) - they're doing if foo.get(bar) is True
But both None and False would be falsey, so I don't see the point
 
So the value for the key has to be true
 

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