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6:00 PM
There's song named "We code hard in the cubicles"
anyone seen that?
 
What are we reopening?
 
DSM
whoosh
 
what are these cv-plz and reopen-plz tags ?
why people are posting them?
 
It's how we say "Close vote this question please"
Or reopen of course.
 
user559633
6:02 PM
we're forced to or the bad men will hurt our dogs
 
I am a bad man and I can confirm that I will hurt your dogs.
 
Lol ..
But generally dogs hurt the men?no?
 
If you don't have dogs, I'll buy you a dog! Then hurt it.
 
Hilarious
 
user559633
I want a caucasian shepherd. Good luck on that second part
 
6:03 PM
@Ffisegydd Or buy pre-hurt
 
It's more efficient to open a Gameboy emulator, start a Nintendogs instance, then neglect it.
 
DSM
THERE WILL BE NO HURTING PUPPIES.
 
Yes, hence our tireless closing efforts.
 
@DSM Only fully grown dogs.
 
That's right, there won't, if people cv/reopen as...required...
 
6:06 PM
Your ellipses are improperly spaced. Ten minutes of Nintendog neglect has been credited to your account.
 
user559633
More like in by 9 out by 5. Also, they're all white, hugely inaccurate.
 
+1 for your use of melt and your tireless defence of puppies DSM.
 
user559633
melt?
 
user559633
 
6:10 PM
cuz of his friend?
 
No idea. Just thought that myself. and melt is a pandas method that melts your dataframe into a puddle of goo.
 
and why are jealous? @tri
 
user559633
@VamsiPavanMahesh maybe sit the next couple rounds out. It's a bad question.
 
At a quick glance, that question included a full code sample and error message, which automatically makes it better than 90% of questions
 
user2555451
It is still a simple syntax error that can easily be avoided. I've closed it.
 
6:12 PM
This is assuming that the weird indentation in the second code block is actually part of the question, and not just a markdown quirk that the OP didn't bother to preview.
 
Area51 shows that it can take a good deal of time before a stable community builds around a specific topic in a way that's compatible with the SE model. Linkedin didn't have that time yet. — Hans Passant 41 secs ago
 
But what about the questions like "what is the use of main in java"
 
I don't understand Hans' point. We should leave linkedin users to abuse SO and just post awful Q+A?
 
DSM
> tell me what you understand of indentation ten???
 
user2555451
@VamsiPavanMahesh - Close as "Too broad". SO is not a tutorial service.
 
6:13 PM
I thought it was on ORDER!
@iCodez
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd I found it weird that he's defensive of LinkedIn just taking a shit on SO
 
user2555451
No, I was telling you what should be done with questions like that.
 
@Ffisegydd Seems to be a rebuttal to Martijn's "there's only one dev answering questions" comment. I guess he feels that eventually, there will be more answerers.
 
@VamsiPavanMahesh you can edit your previous message by pressing "up" so you don't have to ping someone on the next line.
 
Which doesn't really address the quality problem, but meh
 
6:14 PM
ok
 
Yeah I assumed it was the same. Unfortunately that would mean us sitting by and allowing a lot of tripe to be asked.
 
user559633
LinkedIn knew exactly what they were doing when they decided to make us give their lazy askers a reality check.
 
user559633
There's not enough cocaine in the world for their MBAs and marketing people to earnestly believe that SO would be a better experience for their askers
 
I don't know if they were actively abusive (i.e. they knew it wouldn't go down well and didn't care) or just didn't research it enough.
 
-1
Q: Why does %s accepts Integer type variable and %d gives an error for a String variable

Vamsi Pavan Maheshenter code here my_name="vamsi" my_age=20 my_height=74 my_weight=180 my_eyes="Blue" my_teeth="White" my_hair="Brown" print "Let's talk about %s" % my_name print "He's %s inches tall" % my_height # This works fine print "He's %d pounds heavy"%my_weight print "He's got %d eyes and %s hair"%(my_eye...

@iCodez
what's wrong with this?
 
6:16 PM
Re: LinkedIn's motives, "Never attribute to malice, what can be attributed to stupidity"
 
Exactly.
 
user2555451
@VamsiPavanMahesh - Did you read the close message? It says exactly what is wrong with that question.
 
You really think so?
What do they mean "Broad"?
It's a perfect question in my defense
 
Where does it say "broad" in the close reason?
 
There is no such thing as a perfect question.
 
user2555451
6:18 PM
It was closed as a simple typographical error. And it is. Using %s instead of %d is a typo.
 
DSM
You wrote %d where you meant %s; usually one-character bugs are considered typos.
 
How can it be a typo
In C that would print ASCII
 
user559633
Are you asking seriously or?
 
user559633
Is it in C? No. Stop feigning surprise.
 
6:19 PM
So I thought that If it can happen in C, why not in python?
But the reverse was working fine?
 
user2555451
Personally, I wish we had a RTFM close reason. String formatting has been explained to death in the docs and on SO.
 
user559633
@iCodez but then we wouldn't get paid money for being in this room.
 
user559633
And if we're not paid, we're just a group of people with a shared interest that enjoy chatting with each other.
 
user2555451
Ew.
 
user559633
Right?
 
6:21 PM
chuck it!
 
Dan
> This question has been closed because you didn't RTFM.
That has a nice ring to it
:P
 
what part of chuck it you did not understand :/
 
user2555451
With SO as big as it is and the Python docs as clear as they are, I don't understand half the questions we get. Does anybody google anymore?
 
user2555451
Or is it "I got an error! Off to SO!"
 
I did .. stop whining!
 
Dan
6:23 PM
but this also comes to mind:
 
@iCodez I like to think that all users eventually develop to the point where they do google and RTFM, but we never see this stage of development, because there's a brand new batch of 1 rep users in the way.
 
user559633
Man, I don't know about that. The Python introduction covers most questions users will have. The problem is not understanding delayed gratification.
 
Welcome to Eternal September, enjoy your stay.
 
user559633
Exactly @Kevin.
 
user2555451
That image doesn't apply to Python. The docs are extremely well written. Only the Tkinter docs are lacking.
 
user559633
6:25 PM
TKinter docs are well written. It's Tkinter that's lacking.
 
user559633
It's like trying to be a sports caster for competitive cat herding.
 
But I did read that FM from LPTHW! and when asked in this forum about that FM! No was pointing me in the right direction
 
user559633
..or explaining why your drunken behavior the night before was elegant, even though you can't remember most of what happened.
 
user559633
@VamsiPavanMahesh what are you even talking about?
 
FM stands for Fucking Manual
LPTHW for Learn Python the Hard Way
 
6:28 PM
Hey man, it's nothing personal. It's just, questions that can be solved by changing a single character in the code, usually gets closed as a typo.
 
Ok, Fine ..
 
user559633
@VamsiPavanMahesh I know. Are you complaining that no one was there to feed you answers and rub your shoulders while you skipped over reading the official documentation? You asked a poor quality question and it got closed. Nothing personal, that's life.
4
 
Is that "That poor!"
I come from Java and C guys, So I kind of know how this SO works
Just new in python that's all!
 
I suppose it would be possible to reword the question so that it asks "why does Python's printf style formatting behave differently from C's in regards to what may be passed to %d?", but even that would probably be closed, since it's impossible to answer unless you can find a direct quote from Python's developers explaining their reasoning.
 
One guy was asking me to put it in PEP :D
 
user559633
6:31 PM
Yeah, go do that.
 
user2555451
Plus, the error message said exactly what's wrong: "number is required ,not str".
 
Will will
 
user559633
In fact, why are you wasting time here? Go do that now
 
DSM
But it's not like even in C if you pass a char array to printf with %d it'll give you the string.
 
user559633
The title could be "Signed integer decimal conversion type should allow for string types without any implicit conversions."
 
user2555451
6:33 PM
BTW @VamsiPavanMahesh, % formatting is the old way of doing it. New code should be using str.format.
 
user559633
@iCodez I like printf style formatting for the exact reason of succinctness and type coercion/enforcement.
 
I just Learned 10 or so exercises from LPTHW . I cannot ask for PEP! My conscience would not agree to it @tri
Yeah That's what they said @ico , Thanks BTW :)
 
user2555451
% only saves you a few characters and its functionality is crushed by str.format.
 
user559633
@VamsiPavanMahesh great, so now go read the actual documentation instead of arguing that well defined and widely accepted syntax is somehow incorrect because you spent the better part of 10 minutes scanning a 3rd party reference.
 
DSM
It might be worth mentioning that many people -- myself included -- think LPTHW isn't a great way to learn Python.
 
6:35 PM
@DSM And there's no python 3 version.
 
user559633
@iCodez I use .format as well, but printf still has valid formatting.
 
You somehow made me to accept that! You can sell anything!
@tri
 
printf formatting is <grumble> technically not deprecated </grumble>
 
user2555451
Valid in that Python hasn't canned it yet for some bizarre reason. Sorry tristan, but I hate % formatting. :)
 
@VamsiPavanMahesh please tone down your "enthusiasm", "surprise" and "single word messages/pings"
 
6:36 PM
It's Not Deprecated Yet
 
It's not that exciting.
 
user559633
@iCodez It has its use cases. I hope it's never deprecated.
 
I'm not dead yet! I think I'm getting better! I feel happy! thwacks printf formatting with club
 
user559633
Which is to say "my use cases are not your use cases(tm)"
 
I will follow, whatever you say .. After all I'm here to learn
 
user2555451
6:38 PM
The only argument I've seen for % formatting is when you have a single format field. But as I said in a previous conversation, that is what the format function is for IMO.
 
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do things. My way.
 
user559633
also: print("{0}".format(int(some_val))) vs print("%i" % some_val)
 
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about, I don't want weird fanatical followers who do everything I say, I just want you to behave normally.
(I do want fanatical followers who do everything I say, just not here.)
 
user559633
+1 @davidism (to both parts)
 
You understood it like that? English can be a tricky language
 
6:39 PM
Minions are only fun in real life, because you can't make cyber minions fight to the death for your amusement.
 
user559633
@VamsiPavanMahesh It will help you to take some time reading and understanding how this room functions before participating.
 
user2555451
Specifically, you should check out: sopython.com/chatroom
 
Hey, speaking of English, @Vamsi please read this and try not to add spaces before punctuation, like we discussed earlier.
You are getting somewhat better about it, but I don't think it's really sunk in.
 
DSM
Foxes diving into snow!
 
I'm off to drive 40 minutes to get a haircut, then get a delicious sandwich for lunch. Yes, it's worth it. :)
Rhubarb!
 
user559633
6:43 PM
take care @davidism good luck with the haircut small talk
 
user559633
Where's the room puppy anyway?
 
user2555451
You mean Clements? He hasn't even signed in to SO yet.
 
My wild guess is "at a holiday party"
 
user559633
I hope he's alright
 
user2555451
He's gone a whole day without SO! Oh the poor guy!
 
user559633
6:47 PM
Haha, he's just normally at least idling in here.
 
https://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/index.html
Is this one?
 
user2555451
Yea, but it's for 2.x. If you can, try to use Python 3.x.
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd is correct. Use Python 3.x. It's more useful to start with the present for new users.
 
DSM
Yeah, I'd recommend the version 3 one too. If nothing else, its string/bytes handling is sane, and so it won't help develop bad habits.
Plus, who doesn't use itertools.accumulate with a keyfunc every day anyhow? Which limits you to >= 3.3..
 
user2555451
6:51 PM
Or yield from. That is a jewel.
 
Everything* being a generator is confusing at first, but nice once you're used to it.
 
So that Tutorial is enough to get me started? or is there anything?
 
@Vamsi start with it. Then go out and do some code. Then when you can't do something, google it, and then do it.
 
DSM
If you work through the tutorial -- reading and experimenting -- you'll be well-situated to actually learn Python, which comes from actually writing Python for something non-trivial.
 
user2555451
6:54 PM
And frequent the docs. They often have the answers to your problems as well as good tips and tricks.
 
user2555451
Oh, and please read: python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008
 
user2555451
Python's main focus is readability after all.
 
Start out ambitiously on a big project, write half of it, realise it'll never work and start again. Lather, rinse, repeat...
 
user559633
Were PEPs always 4 digit width?
 
user2555451
I think so. I don't think we've reached PEP 1000 yet.
 
user559633
6:55 PM
@matsjoyce sounds like most of my dating career :P
 
@iCodez Looking at python.org/dev/peps, it seems they jumped to 3000 for python 3
 
I don't think the numbers go in order.
 
Dan
@matsjoyce you too?!?
 
user2555451
Meh, that screws up the order. I hate it when organizations jump like that.
 
user2555451
6:59 PM
Oh, I'm saving that. :)
 
user559633
is there a windows 10 now?
 
It's in alpha I think
 
user2555451
They skipped 9 because 10 sounds cooler.
 
user559633
>__> always with the copying of others
 
Windows 10 is a personal computer operating system developed by Microsoft as part of the Windows NT family of operating systems. Unveiled on September 30, 2014 as a successor to Windows 8.1, it is scheduled to be released in 2015, and is currently in public beta testing. First presented in April 2014 at the Build Conference, Windows 10 aims to address shortcomings in the user interface introduced by Windows 8 by improving the user experience for non-touchscreen devices (such as desktop computers and laptops), including a revival of the desktop Start menu seen in Windows 7, a virtual desktop system...
 
7:01 PM
I heard, and this may be a myth, that they skipped 9 because it would mess up code where people had been lazy and said if windows_version > 'Windows_9' or some such.
 
They skipped 9 because too many bad programmers have code like if(version.startswith("9")){print("please update your operating system"); return;}
Beaten!
 
@Ffisegydd Wikipedia say's it in beta now
 
user559633
Hahaha wowww look at that incomprehensible garbage of a menu system. it's the UX equivalent of hoarding
 
DSM
Math joke of the day, just seen on the math SE: what's an anagram of Banach-Tarski? hover for answer
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd @Kevin oh yeah, I remember that now.
 
7:02 PM
I understand that math joke without having to look it up. I am proud of myself.
 
user559633
Ha ha, great math joke! (furiously skims wikipedia)
 
user559633
(ah, so the volume is preserved by converting the uniform surface into a series of sparsed, connected points?)
 
I won't claim to understand what actually is going on in that theorem.
Fact 3 spheres are cool.
 
user559633
Pfff. The first fact is not particularly interesting to me as an engineer. "using magical materials that can pass through itself but rips when tight angles form...here's a formula that doesn't break the rules that i'm making up as i go along"
 
The second fact, on the other hand, has real applications for coconut enthusiasts.
 
user559633
7:16 PM
Theoretical-coconut enthusiasts
 
user2555451
done.
 
user559633
Should I elect an "Acting MTFL" for when I'm AFK for a couple weeks?
 
Is there really anyone in this room who can be so MT?
 
user559633
Davidism is a good backup.
 
user559633
7:22 PM
And Kevin has the snark down.
 
user559633
Kevin "Mister Snarky Pants" Kevinson
 
I like to think I can occasionally drop some sarcasm.
We'll all chip in.
 
user559633
yes, you drop it like it's hot, yo
 
user559633
It's all I ask.
 
DSM
7:35 PM
How was the haircut?
 
Forget the haircut, how is the sandwich?
 
user559633
@davidism while you were away, i appointed you acting MTFL
 
user559633
Forget the sandwich, how was the awkward small talk?
 
My barbers are amazing in that they don't bother with the small talk unless you want them to.
 
DSM
7:37 PM
I'm starting to think my plan to live vicariously through stories people tell in the chat may have a flaw.
 
I'm waiting to get the haircut now. The sandwich will be better the hungrier I get.
 
Bah! Haircuts are overrated. I liked this hair much better
 
user559633
@DSM actual laughing was had
 
You looked at my profile on linkedin the other day. I looked at yours in return. I was sad to find out you're not actually an anime character.
 
user559633
7:39 PM
plot twist: davidism is in for hair extensions
 
user559633
i have no earthly idea what davidism looks like in real life
 
Not an anime character!
 
Haha, I forgot there's a picture on my public LinkedIn.
 
user559633
nevermind, found you
 
user559633
 
user559633
7:42 PM
LET'S PYTHON GOOD, YES
 
user559633
i think i'm going to use that for my linkedin photo
 
Davidism's avatar is pretty realistic, as far as animes go. No weird geometrical hair spikes, no foot long pompadour.
 
@davidism don't forget to ask the hairdresser to do the needful.
 
user559633
Oh crap, I hope I saved my commander keen avatar before replacing it this time
 
DSM
The problem is that it's sufficiently realistic to make me interpret the facial expression as davidism's attitude at all times.
 
user559633
7:49 PM
David-Realistic-Anime-ism
 
@tristan Luckily the old version is still visible in chat, as I haven't refreshed the page. i.stack.imgur.com/SlnTp.png
 
@davidism could you use the link I provided?
(back, cbg(all))
 
user559633
Thanks @Kevin
 
DSM
Speaking of anime, did anyone notice my cool Naruto hat? It's cool.
 
user559633
Haha, I just got 16 hats.
 
Dan
7:53 PM
question: I'm looking for some sort of template (anything from LaTeX to a web framework / CMS for this) that allows me to create simple document or html pages containing properly highlighted python code (markdown preferable)
 
Not sure I get the thematic connection there. Naruto is neglected during his childhood, thus you get his hat when your answer is neglected?
 
Dan
writing a tutorial-ish thingy in python and don't want to reinvent the wheel
 
Hmm, SOPython has properly highlighted python code, doesn't it? How did we get that?
 
DSM
@Kevin: no, it's just that Naruto is awesome and I'm awesome. (Okay, I was more a Shikamaru guy, but still.)
 
Dan
@Ffisegydd haha
 
7:57 PM
Just kidding. @Dan we save our data in markdown format and use the Jinja2 template and the text|markdown magic to transform the md into html.
flask.pocoo.org/snippets/19 is one way, but not how we do it directly I think.
sopython uses github.com/qnub/Jinja2-Markdown I think
1 message moved to Trash can
 
Dan
@Ffisegydd ok cool thx
 
As to how it actually highlights it properly? Let me look it up.
 
Dan
random question, does sphinx properly highlight python code blocks?
 
Sphinx was the other thing I'd have suggested.
 
Dan
I know flask and sphinx, but sphinx may be less time-consuming in this case
but I didn't use sphinx for things I should have used it for, so not sure if it highlights python code - I'd imagine it would, given its purpose...
 
user559633
8:07 PM
what's an anime and how is it related to animism?
 
That profile picture...
 
user559633
@Dan are you serving the content with python or would you prefer for the handling to be done with JS?
 
DSM
An anime is a spirit creature which dwells in a natural place or object.
 
user559633
i learn the best stuff from you
 
@Kevin you need to watch the show it's from, he does get slightly more anime.
 
8:10 PM
My spirit animal is the noble rubber duck.
@davidism What's it from?
 
@PeterVaro haven't tried it yet, but looks basically like what I used
 
user559633
haha, i love anime as a scale
 
user559633
"this cartoon is 10 animes"
 
@davidism I'm asking, because for me FF was also tearing, but once I set compton (starting with that file) the tearing has finally stopped
 
>>> @property
... def host_string():
... return 'platform.autuitive.com'
...
>>> print host_string
<property object at 0x7f1b87db14c8>
 
8:12 PM
Chūnibyō demo Koi ga Shitai
 
user559633
I wonder if my sweet new av will help or hurt my rep creation
 
Why doesn't it print the string instead?
 
user559633
that's a very anime title
 
user559633
in fact, that title is like 100 anime
 
@Soviero they're for inside classes, not for generic functions.
 
user559633
8:13 PM
where "sailor moon" is like 5 anime
 
Oh, that one with the eyepatch. Yeah, I've heard of that one.
 
Is the name of the show. It's hilarious.
 
DSM
I think my spirit animal is a fox. She has reddish fur, cute ears, and wears half-red-rimmed glasses.
 
I keep intending to watch it.
 
@Ffisegydd Ah... Is there an equivalent for static functions?
 
8:13 PM
Gah, posting from a phone is super slow.
 
No, you have to call the function AFAIK.
 
@Ffisegydd Grrr, ok, thanks.
 
You could of course just say host_string = 'platform.autuitive.com'
 
@Ffisegydd Trying to make it read only.
 
OK, time for sandwich: olivetreemarket.com
 
8:15 PM
Create a custom str object that sets fire to your user's computer upon trying to re-assign it then.
 
Dan
@tristan python
or just plain html generated from python
it's fairly static content
 
user559633
oh wow, that messed with my head. i was thinking about what my spirit animal would be and i thought you were answering my thought
 
You can't have "Python" as your spirit animal, it would be far too cliche.
 
Whoah. I got a bounty. Hey guys, mom was right! I *am * a winner!
 
You're all winners to me :-)
 
user559633
8:17 PM
do you think i'd get banned if i make this my "about me" text?

"Hey how you doin lil mama? lemme whisper in your ear, Tell you sumthing that you might like to hear, You got a sexy ass body and your ass look soft, Mind if I touch it? and see if its soft " - Ying Yang Twins
 
I thought that was the Bing Bong Brothers
 
Maybe.
 
>__________>
 
I think it might end up being removed, but I doubt you'd be banned.
 
user559633
my new av is bringing out the troll in me
 
8:18 PM
@Ffisegydd Long story short, I'm allowing users to upload Fabric scripts that will then run as root on any host, passwordless, and the only protection from abuse is that I set the host to run on myself first. but nothing stops them from doing env.host_string = 'some.other.host' and running commands on other customers servers as root. see my problem?
 
user2555451
SO is surprisingly lenient towards your profile. They allow swearing and even slightly offensive remarks. It is only when you get very dirty that they step in. ;)
 
@Soviero you may struggle to do this in Python. It's quite difficult to make things truly private.
Would it be possible to register the hash of the host with your server? So if it'd modified it wouldn't match?
 
user559633
@Soviero how are you authing your users?
 
user559633
I've done something remotely similar in the past and used authentication as the layer that said "stop being a jerk"
 
@tristan I already have that for editing other user's automations or trying to run scripts on a host they don't own, but it's the ability to edit fabric settings internally that I can't seem to find a way around.
 
user559633
8:24 PM
Oh, yeah, besides having it talk to a server to compare hashes or provide auth, i don't think that will be a think you can do with python.
 
user559633
even if it wasn't python, a user could just use fabric/the-root-permissioned-script to swap out the command and run something against other hosts
 
At the end of the day, these are enterprise users that are vetted before being allowed onto the platform. Maybe that's enough to ensure that they aren't evil.
 
...
 
@Ffisegydd Yup... Yup...
 
user559633
Ensure they aren't evil, maybe, but it's enterprise, so dangerously clueless is a bigger concern.
 
user559633
8:26 PM
"enterprise" is just code for "hiding behind process"
 
@tristan Well, it's already built to avoid a customer accidentally running it on another host. client VPN connections are assigned IPs randomly from a pool of 16,000, and you can only connect via IP. So they would have to actively attempt to find a host and connect to it, if it's not one of their own.
 
user559633
If this solution is acceptable, then they don't really care about people being potentially malicious.
 
user559633
Scanning 16k addresses doesn't take too long
 
@tristan And.... we're back to square one ;)
 
user559633
You already know your answer :P
 
8:29 PM
Enterprise means Java, amirite?
 
@Ffisegydd Bleck, I hate Java.
 
user559633
java 6 actually
 
Heh
 
user559633
and symantec and exchange/outlook
 
user559633
self-sustaining ecosystem of suck
 
8:37 PM
@tristan What was my answer again?
 
user559633
@Soviero it's not safe, but then again, neither is giving users root access anywhere
 
@tristan Well, technically, they run as a restricted user, but they have SSH keys to root on the client-side hosts. Nothing I can do about that.
 
8:52 PM
Are python arrays (docs.python.org/3/library/array.html) actually arrays?
Or are they just typed lists?
 
user559633
@QuestionC they're closer to C arrays, but single dimension as they don't allow for linked lists
 
user559633
or array traversal for elements
 
@tristan Well, strictly speaking C arrays aren't multidimensional either. They've just got some syntactic fluff.
 
user559633
Yes
 
8:57 PM
Sup @Robert
 
So, my_array[500000] is fast on an array in python?
 
Define "fast".
 
DSM
About as fast as any getitem op in Python can be, I suppose.
 

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